My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!


So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:

Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005

With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:

ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)

NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)

Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)

rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)

cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)

parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)

lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)

McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.

butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)

pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.

classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)

Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:



PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.

Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.

Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?

Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.

 It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.

Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.

Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.

Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.

Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.

Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.

My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.

That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!


jays_audio_lab
Hi WC,
Definitely let us know if you have further thoughts on the Odin1 XLR thus far.  Also, comparing it to the Clear Beyond or any XLR for that matter would be very interesting for many...  
@rbach An iPhone with attached microphone will do it and easy to upload to YouTube ;)
Yes please work on these items:
 
1 High quality video camera
2 Professional microphones
3 Lose weight
Grey9hound or anyone,
I am thinking about PSB PS1 desktop speakers for the computer.  Any other recommendations?
WC,
Your weight makes you at risk for sleep apnea, a far more serious medical condition than plain snoring.  Please lose weight--we want you to have a long life.
Hi,
So the main purpose of the room is music. I think of the home theater part as an added bonus which won't get touched often. If I replace anything home theater related , it would the processor but that's only if I get an itch. I'm quite happy with the performance I have when I take into consideration that I only watch about one movie per week. I've had the room since last September I think ? And I only have like 280 hours on the projector. I am also more hooked on TV shows such as "the Ozarks" (which I totally love) or shows like Breaking Bad, Prison Break, etc. 
I feel like over the last few years most movies have been just ok. I am the type of person that if i a movie doesn't catch me within the first 20 min, I begin to yawn while I keep sipping on a drink until I snore and my wife slaps me on the back of the head for embarrassing her in public. Yep, being 6'1, 276 lbs DOES guarantee you snoring sessions and a mask like Bane from Batman while you sleep next to your significant other. 
Did you give up on the Home Theater WCSS?
I thought you built the new room for Home Theater also.
Your current room whitecamaross is awesome. This how it should be and maybe some reflection panels will good.
Let's keep on topic. 
Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the Taurus @whitecamaross !
Damn ,
Everything I read and see about the Topping D90 ,makes me want one .
I have a BUNCH of 384khz and 768kHz .dsf or DSD high res files that I cannot play without having JRiver downmix them...
I got a bunch of music files recently. After importing them into JRiver, I now show a total of 112,842 songs total on my drives. 90% of the are already tagged and have album art covers for display
If you are interested in DACs, You can try something technically perfect with the best DAC chip in the world AK4499 and cheap at the same time like, Topping D90 and Gustard A22.
whitecamaross

Nice score! Looking forward in reading the review from shoot-out.

Happy Listening!
Looking at the internals. This is not Pass XS, DAG M400, nor Lux M900u territory.
nitrobob,
Interesting.  When I spoke to ATI, they said their class D 522 or 542 are slightly superior to the 6002.  They use Hypex NC500.  Keep us informed how the Legacy compares.  Another option is Ric Schultz' tweaked EVS 1200.  He also modifies the IceEdge module, just over $2K.
Yep its the Taurus. Mike dropped the line due to lack of sales/interest in the brand. Can read all about it on the AudioShark forums
Whitecamaross,
Based upon the data, I think the amps that are coming are a pair of Consellation Taurus monoblocks. As I correct?
@WCSS

I think the video and sound quality of the clips you posted is good enough. You've spent enough money on the gear you play with...no need to post a SOTA video. No way you will get close to the sound you hear in your room listening to a video through a computer the way most of us do....The videos are a fantastic addition to your thread and get us closer to your thoughts on gear we would never see/hear on our own. I would never buy a component based on listening to it on a youtube video, however your written and video review and personal thoughts get us closer than anything out there short of an in-home-demo. Listening to gear at a dealer for me is helpful but can also be a mixed bag.
I just ordered the newly released Legacy I*V 5 Amplifier yesterday. It’s what they have been working on for seven years with this "Ice" technology. There’re sold out, as the first batch sold faster than they thought. Shipment is mid February.I am replacing my 300 watt ATI 6005 Signature Series. Kind of glad to get rid of that 140 lb monster. I had to move it twice, and I was learning to hate it. I have all Legacy, Focus Se’s, Marquis Center, Phantom Surrounds, and I wanted to try this 600 watt per channel unit and see. Hope I didn’t make a mistake. But, you don’t know if you don’t try , right?Enter your text ...
Thanks to Guido and Grey9hound for revealing that their excellent systems can be used to get more revealing sound from youtube videos.    As grey9hound says, we can start with good desktop speakers on your computer.  Close behind would be if WC gets great mikes to record.  Even if listening to youtube is still not as revealing as being with WC, the opportunity to listen repeatedly gives lots of benefits.  

WC, I hope you can keep both the Dag and Pass as references for clarity and full sound, respectively.  You can make a video with the new amp vs Dag, and new amp vs Pass.  As you get more new amps, make the video A/B's, then you can sell off any amp to remain solvent.  Remember the old days when you got Rowland or Luxman several times?  Now you can do the whole quest more efficiently by making your own recordings.
Like choosing between Stradivarius  via VHF marine radio....value of travel avoided notwithstanding

like I tell vocalists, let’s pick your microphone FIRST

so with the reset to Odin, start over again ?

Nordost Odin 1 XLR just arrived and has been plugged into the Dag 400s 5 minutes ago. My initial impressions:

* i think the mids are on a whole other level with this cable. 
* Detail is just 10 fold from what i was used to


Oh the irony, seemingly lost on so many, of listening to a completely different system through another completely different system...

I'm not trying to stir up a hornets nest - but are we really trying to evaluate the differences of + $50k amplifiers using our computers over the internet?


@tjassoc
Some of us can play Youtube into our setup.
I actually have a PC setup for JRiver MediaCenter and can do any internet stuff on it through the MX151..and.... on my 70 inch Sony at 1080p. That JRiver on the 70 inch with Black on Black skin is Beautiful. I know that the sound will not be nearly as good as most any high end 2 Channel setups ,but it sure is a LOT better than a laptop....huh Viber ?
I am just poking at you Viber

https://www.google.com/search?q=jRiver+black+on+black+screenshot&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS849US849&sxsrf=ACYBGNR6_TcvlBiG8KlaYFi39siArK1Ndw:1579976267557&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=AaTnDaa1SUAIXM%253A%252C2tIG7CEaYXudXM%252C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kToQO1ltfVFzWDm8U9R2DyLibJljA&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwicpLmhrp_nAhXvkOAKHebZA5gQ9QEwAHoECAoQBQ#imgrc=AaTnDaa1SUAIXM:
+1 on everything @techno_dude said.


But that's just me and my wallet. Everyone else, please yourselves and enjoy.


Best,
E
The next amp will be different tonality than what  I have been playing with. It's incredibly musical and detailed but with other added strengths.i think this could present major challenges for xs300s and momentums for sure.. 



DAG 400s is the clear choice for me over the Pass XS 300s. Price is lower, beauty and quality of the chassis is  higher, taking a lot less space and weight...
Luxman M-900u monos over the DAG 400s though. But that remains to be heard to be sure.
@tjassoc
Yes we are all evaluating amps of this caliber because if you have no dealers near you, or have any access to any of this, and if no magazines do this on video then what are else are you going to do ? There is no other options than to try to get what you can from these videos.
The videos are for the crowd that wanted them but I was and STILL am jotting down my personal opinion on here as far as what I hear here in my home . My videos are just an extension of what I’ve been doing for years here. You make a valid point but again think about those that can’t get on a plane to fly to listen to any of this because of family , work , lack of time etc. Maybe they are interested in a specific amp and these clips AND comments from many of you help enforce whatever buying decision is to be made in the future. Videos won't ever come close to the real thing but many can't travel across the country chasing components. It is not practical.  
I'm not trying to stir up a hornets nest - but are we really trying to evaluate the differences of + $50k amplifiers using our computers over the internet?
I recently listened to Momentum amplifiers on Alexia II's (at Entertainment Technologies in Mount Kisco, NY), and just previously listened to Alexia II's with Naim amplifiers (at Innovative Audio / Video in NYC). Couldn't begin to tell you the experience listening on a computer, especially over the internet.
Similar to viewing Michelangelo's Sistine Chapel using dirty glasses in poor light - and I'm not trying to be sarcastic, just trying to use the comparisons so often used by whitecamaross and others.
Boulder 2160 won't happen anytime soon unfortunately. I wish :) 
Being self-funded makes it HARDER because I can't call manufacturers to send me their newest amps for review. Imagine if I were able to have access to audio components like reviewers do? I'd be done reviewing most amplifiers by the end of the year ! 
Based on your hint it wasn’t any of the amps in your list. I’m very curious about you trying the Boulder 2160 but you don’t really ever see those come up used. I’m still loving my 1160. I’ll likely have a pair of Alexia 2s on the way next month as well. Getting closer to your setup ;) all my cabling is Transparent though. I think I lean a bit more on vinyl than digital, so my planned upgrades are usually around making that better. Still, enjoy the commentary here and hope you keep going!
Interesting thoughts guys. I like what you all are adding here on this video. I agree with ALOT of what you all are saying and yes it is such a difficult thing to do. It’s really more about YOU as an audiophile and what you prefer rather than the equipment itself.
Also, don't forget that the nordost Odin 1 xlr is arriving today. 

Up next: You will know which amp has left my stable and which one has come on board on my next video. 
Stay tuned and keep subscribing. This is getting harder and harder at this level, but I welcome the challenge.

I played-back the Pass/Dag clip on my system... HP Zbook 15 G1 on batteries feeding Rowland Aeris DAC + PSU via USB, DAC into Rowland M925 monos, and these into Vienna Die Muzik speakers. PCS are Cardas Clear Beyond XL, speaker wires Cardas Clear Reflection. USB cable was unfortunately generic.

 

Differences between the two tested amps seemed apparent....

 

Pass seemed to be outwardly the punchier of the two, with greater emphasis of the player's hand-thumps onto the body of the guitar.

 

On the other hand, Dag seemed to yield greater overall clarity and midrang/treble resolution without ever becoming shouty or brazen.

 

I felt more upper extension and overall low level information in the Dag. Transient were crisper yet sweet, without suffering of artificial excesses or obvious traces of screechy intermodulative artifacts.

 

The voice of the soloist was clearer and lyrics easier to follow than on the Pass. I heard a more distinct feel of the audience and venue.

 

I did also prefer the more "measured" impact of the bass on Dag.

 

For my musical and tonal preferences, I would give the nod to the Dag, but I recognize that mine is purely preference, and not any statement of "betterness".

 

Regards, Guido


I just wanted to say that i could definitely hear differences in the amps .
They definitely have different presentations. I actually stopped the video after both songs at like 4:42. I did not actually hear WCs comments about which he preferred until after i posted my thoughts on the difference in sound. I actually did not know what he said after 4:42 mark , until this morning
Viber, Not enough clarity or detail.. with all due respect... give me a break. Get some decent desktop speakers . You can definitely hear differences.
I would probably agree with WC ,that it might depend on which song is being played as to which amp is preferred.
That was an excellent comparison video and not too long ,as most people have attention deficits and can't listen to LONG videos very easily . I know i have trouble with long drawn out ones
Looks like my next set of amps will be here next week. Hints:
$42k MSRP
500 watts into 8 ohms
120 lbs each 
Musicality in spades
Class Ab 
So far, people here agree on the objective differences between the Dag and Pass, even if they have various preferences.  If anyone is listening to youtube through their excellent system, it would be great to hear from you.  Then if WC gets better microphones to reveal more differences, you will be able to hear subtle differences.
WC, thank you for taking the time to put that video/review together. I can't say for certain, but I don't think anything like this has been done before, at least not at this level. I'm not sure there are any dealers that sell both Pass Labs, and D'agostinos. If there is, I doubt any of them would post on the internet that they preferred one over the other. I think you really put yourself out there picking a preference, and I only hope anyone watching that video will take it for what it is - your preference, and not one necessarily that much better than the other (xs300 cost 20k more).

I think if I heard both in the same room, same speakers I would probably enjoy the xs300 an ounce more for the same reasons you mentioned in the video. However, if I had opportunity to buy either one, I'd probably go with the m400 based on form factor, price/performance ratio, and looks (as well as heat issues?).

Please keep doing what your doing. It seems you're getting progressively better with each video, so I can see things evolving as you become more comfortable making these videos. And please, continue to play music!
Sounds to me like the XS300 is a touch more real or live sounding. The M400s sound a little more refined and maybe have a little less bass weight .The M400 seems to accentuate the Upper Mids more .. Maybe ? It is kind of what I am hearing .The XS300 are like a Dodge Viper and the momentum 400s are more like  a Ferrari .
I also wrote this before hearing anyone else’s opinion
@gtaphile. 

Answer to your question:
Which amp would I start with if I were building a system ? 
Hmm. That depends on many variables:
Speakers used 
Sources 
Music preference
Cabling 

The momentum will be amazing for just about anyone. The pass labs will be amazing as well but it requires a special kind of audiophile; someone who doesn't care about the size and heat. A person that loves class A and who understands patience is a virtue with class A. 
Both amps are capable of driving anything. 
I didn't want to be biased by reading other people's impressions, so I listened first to the Dag/Pass A/B a few times on my lousy iMac computer with its stock speakers.  Then I read gtaphile's observations, and I totally agree with him on the differences in sound.  The Pass has a more spacious bloom, glow and rounded quality.  The Dag has a more specific, clear, upfront presentation.  I look forward to this comparison when you hook up the Nordost XLR.  With the Nordost's general character of clarity, I expect the differences to be more apparent, but the overall character of each to remain the same, so if you prefer the Pass with the Cardas interconnect, you probably will not change your mind with the Nordost.

The sound quality has a nice stereo effect, but since I needed to listen several times to judge the differences, I would say at present the resolution of your setup is not sufficient to demonstrate more subtle A/B differences with cables, various digital filters, etc.  For that, getting the best condenser mikes would be needed.  The mikes are as critical as the speakers, because both are transducers.  The sensitive mike diaphragm converts air vibrations (sound) into electrical current, and the speaker diaphragm converts electrical current into air vibrations.

I like what you are doing, so this is a great opportunity to archive important differences with a particular setup.  You could sell your archives to dealers and their customers, to save many hours and trouble of doing A/B's.  Then the dealer wouldn't be as pissed off if the customer wastes their time with A/B's and doesn't buy.  If you get better mikes, this will have more value.  Dealers could commission you to do excellent A/B demos of any combo of equipment they want.  Even right now, your video is sufficient to demonstrate to a customer who values clarity first, that the Dag would be preferable.  

I would also look for music that has more percussion and HF content.  It is often easier to tell differences in clarity with this.
@pokey77
Makes sense to me. However, I shut the amps off last night after 5 days of being on (can’t wait for the light bill lol )
It will take another 2 days of playtime.before I can assess things.
@whitecamaross 

OK, so how about switching the Odin 1 to the Momentums and see if they can better compete? I've no dog in this fight, but curious if a better PC will allow them to compete closer with the XS.

I do think the XS has an unfair advantage with more power supplies, etc. It makes sense to me on that basis. As for me, I'd keep the amps that win the sound contest. Either the Momentums or the XS can drive just about any speaker very well, but the XS appear to have the advantage based on your comments. I'd like to hear them, but have only heard stuff at the 160.8 level or lower. And the 160.8 do not sound like the Momentums at all to me.
I'm going to try to shoot a video of the xlr. 
I have my personal opinion on both cable companies. I also can totally understand why some of you feel the way you feel about nordost Odin. However, let me say that today I finally swapped PCs on the xs300s and replaced them with Odin 1 and the sound got DRASTICALLY BETTER. It was beyond belief the improvement across the board. 
Cardas is more relaxed and is quite musical but In my opinion their PCs are not at the level of the Odin 1. As far as xlr, we will find out soon enough :)
Always fun to do an XLR comparison and would make another great video.   If you have Odin PC's and SC's in the chain, then there might be some synergy with the Odin 1 XLR.
Dave
Magicos were here for only 2 days. One of my followers was kind enough to let me play with them so I can give him my honest feedback before they got shipped across the country. I recorded one sound clip which I might be able to post a little later. 
They were some spectacular speakers... They are almost like having a measuring device when it comes to their accuracy and clarity. I'll never forget the impression they left on me. Maybe one day ill be able to get them for me .