I'm almost 30 yrs with a couple of Wilson Audio speaker models. I've spent hundreds of hours playing around with positioning in different rooms (moving from one home to another), and I would still consider myself to be a novice.
My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!
So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
Showing 50 responses by golfnutz
Sorry Jay, but these last comments with regards to setting up Wilson speakers makes you sound like a novice still. Unless you're a trained and certified Wilson Audio installer, 5 hours is just getting started. Unfortunately, you'll probably move on to something else before finding the ideal speaker placement. It could take up to a month before you realize you need to move them again, because you haven't played enough music in there current position to be totally satisfied everything sounds just right. A lot of times this happens sooner than later (1-3 days), but you really need to run them through a lot of testing material before making any declarations. 5 hours would be an absolute dream for Wilson speakers. |
My preference didn't change with the second video, I still preferred the sound of the Boulder, vs Gryphon. Although, I do think the Gryphon got a bit closer to the Boulder compared to the first video. I feel like the Boulder digs fractionally deeper with less effort allowing you to hear better undertones. The resolution on the Boulder is one of the best I've heard. Price/Sound ratio, I have to give that to Gryphon though. Thanks again Jay. |
On another forum there is a strong Wilson Audio presence. The preference from Sasha 1 to Sasha 2 is almost 50/50 (not necessarily purchases, but general comments as well). Many don’t upgrade from Sasha 1 to Sasha 2 simply because of price difference (soft dome and higher impedance for Sasha 2). However, there are a lot of guys that went from Sasha to Alexia, and I’ve never read any negative comments that Sasha’s were better. Sasha DAW is the least purchased of the 3 Wilson speakers I've mentioned on that site. At least that’s my perception. |
@mayoradamwest, you should check out the AA Wilson Audio threads where you’ll get real advice from actual owners. I doubt a single person would disagree with either you or WCSS about the Alexia 2 vs Sasha DAW. As for Fiza’s comment that Sasha 1 is superior to Alexia is just nonsense. DAW may be better in certain situations, like a room that’s too small for the Alexia 2, or they couldn’t afford the 20k price difference. Any Wilson Audio dealer wouldn’t hesitate to declare the Alexia 2 is the better of the two. |
Funny, this guy is saying the Alexia bass is superior to DAW bass. I heard the new Sasha last night at Definitive in Seattle. It's definitely more different looking in person than I thought, compared to the Sasha 2. I personally prefer the Sasha 2, but sometimes aesthetics have to "grow on me". |
Agreed, but the room size and acoustics play a role as well. However, your comments and the comments from my previous post are examples from people who own/owned the Alexia. The other comments, I'm assuming, are from non owners. My personal view is to believe the words of actual owners who have experienced these speakers. In the end it makes no difference, everyone buys what they like anyway. |
So this is what Romaz had to say about the Merrill 118 on the WBF forum. Case in point, shortly after purchasing my Wilson Alexia 2s, I felt compelled to try every amplifier I could get my hands on and I had the good fortune of being able to audition Merrill Audio's latest Element 118 monoblocks, a $36k class D design based on gallium nitride transistors known for their incredible speed (in the gigahertz range). Indeed, these made any other amplifier I had previously heard sound slow and so I heard things with these amps that I had never previously heard. The problem with these amps is that the presentation was indeed thin and did not sound natural to my ears and performed just as badly as too slow of an amplifier. |
@keoliphant , when you click on WC's link, click on 'Show More' when you get to YouTube. He has the song information there (like many other people who post these types of videos) . Music in this videoLearn moreListen ad-free with YouTube PremiumSongHigh Water Everywhere (Live)ArtistJoe BonamassaAlbumJoe Bonamassa Live from the Royal Albert |
WC, thank you for taking the time to put that video/review together. I can't say for certain, but I don't think anything like this has been done before, at least not at this level. I'm not sure there are any dealers that sell both Pass Labs, and D'agostinos. If there is, I doubt any of them would post on the internet that they preferred one over the other. I think you really put yourself out there picking a preference, and I only hope anyone watching that video will take it for what it is - your preference, and not one necessarily that much better than the other (xs300 cost 20k more). I think if I heard both in the same room, same speakers I would probably enjoy the xs300 an ounce more for the same reasons you mentioned in the video. However, if I had opportunity to buy either one, I'd probably go with the m400 based on form factor, price/performance ratio, and looks (as well as heat issues?). Please keep doing what your doing. It seems you're getting progressively better with each video, so I can see things evolving as you become more comfortable making these videos. And please, continue to play music! |
Jay, you're the one who tells everyone not to believe what these mags write, and here you are posting a link to a mag that doesn't have Wilson Audio advertising on their list. Maybe this link will be enough to explain the reason Wilson wasn't mentioned in the article - https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/index.php?option=com_weblinks&view=category&id=341&Ite... You can do better than that Jay, I know you can.... |
Listened to the YT video thru my laptop and into my stereo system today. I found both to be top tier, and enjoyed the presentation Jay put together on this one. For me, my preference would be the Boulder given how it sounded more relaxed without giving anything up to the Gryphon (outer edging of notes on Boulder was superb). The Gryphon just seemed a bit sharper in contrast, which might lead to some fatigue at higher volume levels. I found the Boulder system to have so much finesse without losing any detail. Again, both great amps/preamps, and really no losers. Have a Merry Christmas Everyone. |
Jay, that relaxed presentation is part of same experience I had, which I’ll never forget. Basically, the volume control is begging you to turn up the volume because the louder it gets, the better it gets. I totally understand how you could have put the Boulder into protection mode, but in fairness to Boulder (and Alexx), they kind of say you should be using 30A in the manual (which I’m sure you’re aware of), or at least they make you aware of it. |
Pass on the Tekton... I compared them to the Magnepan 20.7 (Iron Fist) that Jay posted - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGrQeL1v51Q and felt there was no comparison. Tekton sound boring if you listen to both videos. For the little bit extra money, Magnepan's would be my choice. |
Jay, I was excited when you mentioned earlier that Peter McGrath might be willing to help you setup the Alexx speakers at your place. As most people know, he's also a recording engineer and would have been able to give you some insights on what amp (Boulder vs Mephisto - you didn't have M400 then) was closer to the truth. I'm sure he would have given you some tips on what to listen for as well. In this article about Peter, it's mentioned he has the Momentum 400 with Alexia in his system. https://www.stereophile.com/content/capturing-it-live-peter-mcgrath |
Sorry Jay, but there’s a lot of negative comments regarding the Luxman M900U from previous owners. Bad bass and bright highs seems to be common. Possibly due to inefficient speakers? Some even go so far as to say it's mid-fi sounding. For anyone lusting after one of these, make sure to put some effort into knowing it’s what you really want. IMO, for something that’s supposed to be so special, buyer remorse shouldn’t be this high. One only needs to look at the Sold/Expired listings and view the forum posts (hifishark.com) and they’ll see a lot of these amps are resold within a year of ownership. That's a big hit on the wallet. I’m sure it’s a fine amp, but no way would I look into getting one of these without hearing it first. |
@kren006 Well I suppose I was the first to sniff out the April foolery but won’t take too much credit for that. Shame it wasn’t true - well except for the D’agostino part, hahaOf course he was kidding, but I don't think it was an April Day joke either. My guess is that it was something well deserved and intentional. |
@klh007 Jay, you have really upped the ante with the MSB! A comparison between MSB and dCS will be very interesting, even at different price levels. Most of us have been to a show and heard both the same day, but in different rooms, this should be a first on a superb system letting us hear the 2 playing the same songs, I can't wait. I still hope you enlist a true dedicated server to feed the DAC that stays, Mike might loan you one for a weekend, that's all the time you should need to hear an improvement. I agree, but I don't think you'll see this happen. Jay, skipped over the same question I asked previously about 'Taiko Audio SGM Extreme', which Mike shows in his product line. |
Jay, I purchased some Guildford of Maine acoustic panel cloth directly from the manufacture, and found a local seamstress to make the curtains for me - https://www.guilfordofmaine.com/swatches/2100-408 The process was pretty simple, just need to make sure you order enough material for pleated curtains, and purchase the curtain rod. |
I had a pair of the Ice Power 1200AS2 that I ran as mono blocks on a pair of Wilson Audio Watt3/Puppy2 speakers. These are $300 modules, that sounded mid-fi at best - do not get sucked into comments claiming anything better. The hardware to support the module costs more than the module itself (case/connections/wire). Easily, the most sterile mid-range sound I’ve ever heard in an amplifier. Just check HiFiShark to see how many of these amps have been put up for sale. These are great modules for the price, but shouldn’t be compared to anything high end. |
Viber, Sorry, there's not a single word you wrote that I would agree with. Like I said, do not believe the hype written by these guys. Tweaks system is mid-fi at best, there's not a single piece in his system that's considered a Class A component. He has nothing to compare to a good sounding system (ie. no point of reference). What do you expect for a stereo module (1200AS2) that costs $300. Maybe you forgot what the word sterile means (unable to reproduce). This has nothing to do with a preferred sound. After 10 minutes of listening, I had to switch amps because the sound was so flat, boring, and lacked real dynamics. It was like a big round hole in the soundstage between the speakers - there was just too much information missing. |
I was thinking the same thing about the neutrality. In other words, I’m hearing the speaker more than the music. It doesn’t mean I didn’t like what I was hearing. I was wondering how different these speakers would sound with a tube amp. For me, it would probably take a good 6 months to decide if these speakers would be keepers or not. Sorry Jay, but playing Deep Purple on your home stereo system is just wrong IMO. Their music is reserved for listening while either driving your car fast, or rolling skating to ’Guy’s only song’ - sorry ladies you’ll have to sit this one out. |
@abedirov I would be very careful playing with these resistors. According to my WA dealer, the change of resistors is not recommended by WA. It is there just for the extreme cases, where nothing else works due to a very unusual / problematic room. This is exactly right. The main purpose of the resistor is to act as a fuse to protect the drivers. Viber has taken the changing of resistors totally out of context and doesn’t have a clue what’s he talking about. EQ is about changing different frequencies. Changing these resistors has an impact on the entire driver, for either the Tweeter, or Midrange. It’s called a Tonal Balance change, NOT EQ. All you’re doing is increasing or decreasing the impedance of the driver itself. For example, if you find the speakers sounding too bright in a room, you might want to try changing the resistor on the tweeter to a higher value (ie. 1.6 ohm to 2.0 ohm). In theory, this should reduce the output of the tweeter to make it sound less bright. Since it’s cheap enough to experiment with, I purchased a bunch of Caddock resistors from Digikey and tried them to see what the effect was. Bottom line, anything from the factory standard sounded worse. |
Wow, and now you’re calling them ’Tuning Resistors’. Where does Wilson Audio refer to this? Like I said, EQ is based on certain frequencies, could be one or many. These resistors change the entire IMPEDANCE of the driver, you don’t have any control over the frequencies. If I took a 'Tea Towel' from the kitchen, and placed it on top of the speaker with part of the towel covering the Tweeter, should I call this 'Tuning Towel' the same thing as EQ'ing? Stop with your ’word salad’ garbage. |
Surely Jay, you must have known that bringing in Wilson Audio and Magico speakers back to back would get ugly. It's been like this since the beginning of time. I'll even guess it's something you and Mike from Suncoast have discussed earlier. Based purely on what I've read here and other forums, I think you'll find more Magico fanboys hating on Wilson than the other way around. And your right, this has nothing to do with sound, it's all about brand names at this point. |
Yes I am, like rh67, I’m into my 4th decade of Wilson Audio as well. There are several Wilson Audio owners who post to this thread, and including myself have never bashed, or had a negative thing to say about Magico. I was actually glad Jay brought Magico in so I could hear them (I’ve only heard them at audio shows). For me, it wasn’t about one being better than the other, it was just the chance to hear something different because of the number of Wilson speakers he already brought in. In all honesty, I was getting bored with the Wilson speakers - too much, too soon. My comment was more about the real haters based on manufactures or brands (nothing to do with sound), not someone who likes both but prefers one over the other. Yes, about Viber. Wait until/if Jay brings in GTA Audio speakers. Then we’ll get to hear how GTA bests Wilson, and Magico. Why are you taking any of his posts seriously? It’s all based on other peoples comments (and his misinterpretation of those comments - mostly) and YT - he’s never heard any of these speakers in person. |
I played Private Investigations from the YT VEVO video through my MSB DAC to try and get a point of reference. Based on what I heard, DAC #2 seemed to line up more with how my DAC sounded (many generations older than Jay's DAC). I thought both DAC's sounded pretty good, but I felt DAC #2 had more Tonal Density, and better definition on the outer edges of the Soundstage. |
@grey9hound If you want to hear good bass guitar, you should try this song out - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfjNpgZ4C5Q Needs to be listen with the CD version to really feel the bass. |
I agree Ron. What I’m hearing is that DAC #1 seems slightly rolled off compared to DAC #2, especially on some of those cymbal splashes on the 2nd song in Video #1. DAC #1 seems like it has a lighter presence (some use Airy as a description). I like DAC #2 for the tonal density (less airy). As well, I believe DAC #2 has more detail. |
@grey9hound This isn't synthesized bass like Black Eyed Peas, this is real bass guitar that you can feel through the entire song (with exception of the drum solo). The YT video doesn't come close to the CD version. I think anyone who has the 7 minute version of this song knows what I'm referring to. |
Vid 1 - #2, Vid 2 - #2, Vid 3 - #2 On all 3 videos, vocals sounded slightly to the right of center with DAC 1. Makes me think you shot all 3 videos for DAC #1 in order, than swapped DAC's and did all 3 videos for DAC #2 in order. Maybe the Mic was slightly off center for DAC #1. Listened to the new mic video as well. Good bass, but the HF seemed to be a bit over the top on my system. Hopefully, I won't hear this with your next shoot out. |
I wonder how many people use one of these cables plugged into the headphone connection on their computer that plugs into their pre-amp, or DAC directly instead of using headphones? https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1237752-REG/hosa_technology_hmx_006y_1_8_stereo_mini_to.html Jay, do you play back your own videos through your main system? |
Sorry Jay, looks like I won't be listening to your video's anymore with that new mic. The sibilance on Peter Gabriel's voice is so bad I had to turn it off. It actually sound better on my laptop, than my stereo system. Too bad you don't have a laptop you could connect with the cable I linked to earlier so you could hear how bad it is on your own system (probably worse on yours than mine). |
Jay, I know the CD very well. Yes, some songs on that CD are hot, but that song isn’t one of the worse ones. I made a comment previously about the same issue, and since I was the only person who had something negative about the mic, I thought I would just casually mention it. Everyone else seemed to like it. It makes me wonder what their using to not be able to hear what I’m hearing (again, this was on the 1st video). The second video confirmed it (at normal listening levels). Actually, I thought I was doing you a favor by being over the top so you would take notice. So, no I’m not that type at all. |