My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!
So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
20,890 responses
Oh I meant no disrespect to either when I said maybe not totally into either. I’m a class D supporter. My main amp is actually an Audio Research class D (probably some are shocked to learn ARC ever made class D). For me I guess I’m always subconsciously viewing everything against all the other stuff, and I don’t think either competes with Gryphon, which I know is a bit more expensive. Again, thought both Merrill and Dag sounded solid and on first listen I couldn’t really pick a winner. |
I own both set ups and can stay with both. What I am shocked by is how much performance the Merrill is bringing to the table against a WELL KNOWN BRAND that is built around Wilson audio. Remember, Merrill isn’t voiced with Wilson and dag voices with wilson which means it is meant to sound awesome with it which it does. That is what is crazy here. There was always a lot of noise being made around class d but now I see a lot of people being muted by what I showed last night. I present facts without speculation. The proof is in the pudding. I think if I use a ref6se or ref10 with the Merrill 118s, it will be incredible. I think the full Merrill system sounds killer for the money. Viber, we are all waiting to hear from you now. I sincerely doubt that the bryston amp you own bested the Merrill you demoed. |
Very impressed with the Merrill set up, very transparent and detailed. The D'Agostino set up sounded fuller and more like live music. I think a warm tube preamp would help the Merrill monos, where all Odin1 IC's (instead of Valhalla2) would help the D'Agostino pair. I do understand the cost difference.....Still waiting for viber's review of the Merrill gear he heard in his home. |
I can’t categorize certain products as the best sound because they might not be but this doesn’t mean they aren't good. Luxman 900u Is an example: Best bang for the buck, but did I say it was the best sound period ? You are indeed confused.. :). Good point though. It allowed me to clarify things a bit better. Bass is awesome but the more I dive into this , the more I realize that bass is more room dependent than highs or mids. It really needs the most contribution from your room.. |
So this is what Romaz had to say about the Merrill 118 on the WBF forum. Case in point, shortly after purchasing my Wilson Alexia 2s, I felt compelled to try every amplifier I could get my hands on and I had the good fortune of being able to audition Merrill Audio's latest Element 118 monoblocks, a $36k class D design based on gallium nitride transistors known for their incredible speed (in the gigahertz range). Indeed, these made any other amplifier I had previously heard sound slow and so I heard things with these amps that I had never previously heard. The problem with these amps is that the presentation was indeed thin and did not sound natural to my ears and performed just as badly as too slow of an amplifier. |
Twoleft, dire straights is where the dags stood out the most to me. The vocals on the Merrill’s seemed much less clear, almost muffled and smeared, whereas I could clearly understand each word with the dags. Also the guitar was fuller, richer, I could hear much more of each note. The one place the Merrill’s might have done better was the lows, they were a bit better defined than the dags were. Just another example how we listen to the same thing, but each hear something different. Since I play the guitar and sing, those areas I tend to notice more, though I most definitely love great bass. I love detail in general, and great detail in bass as opposed to a simple boom, is wonderful. |
WC and All, My unique Bryston 2.5B SST2 and Mytek Brooklyn Amp are more focused, crisper, and cooler in tonality than the Merrill 114 I had at home. Other Brystons (I heard at home the 3B SST, 4B SST2) are dogs by comparison to my little Bryston and the medium power Mytek. The Merrill is more full and dynamic sounding, not because it has higher power capability, but because of its tonal balance, weighted towards bass. The Merrill has this character at all volume levels. Most people here would prefer the tonal balance of the Merrill to either of my amps. In your video, I slightly preferred the Merrill to the Dag. I agree with kren0006 that they are fairly close in sound character. To me, the Merrill 118 is more focused, tighter and less boomy than the Dag. But they are close enough so I say that the Merrill is another example of the sweet camp. My overall summation is that the Merrill has the sweet midrange of a great tube amp, with much more control and extension of bass and greater HF extension. For a tube lover, it gives the best of tubes and solid state. I agree with ricevs' point that the 114 and 118 are different, but my assessment of the 114 is consistent with many reviews of the 116 and 118. An interesting review of the 116 by Dr. Michael Bump, a professor and professional percussionist, who also owned the Merrill Veritas, said that the 116 was more full in the bass than the Veritas, so he didn't need his subwoofer with the 116, unlike when he needed it with the Veritas. I had the Veritas home, which Merrill knew I would like better than the 114, and I confirmed that. The Veritas had overall character similar to my Mytek. I am looking forward to hearing the ARC Ref 6se with the Merrill. Even in the early days about 1982 when I heard the ARC SP6B preamp, I admired its midrange neutrality and overall control, not at all like a classic tube sound. Based on your descriptions, I would prefer the Ref 6 se to the Ref 10, due to the relatively greater focus and precision of the Ref 6 se. Lastly, I congratulate you on the best sound I have heard from your Wilson, which I think is due to the better microphone you are now using. Please continue to use that mike in your recordings. Maybe I have opened a can of slithery worms for you to try more expensive and top shelf mikes, HAHA. I had a negative opinion on 2 Wilson models I heard years ago at a well known dealer. But your setup is far superior, so now I enjoy your sound. In acknowledgment of kren's belief that the clarity of your DAW is better than the 3.7i, I would say no, the 3.7i to me has better clarity because of its greater HF content and superior low mass driver technology vs the DAW. But I didn't like the tonal balance of the 20 compared to the 3 I heard 25 years ago. It is even possible that I would prefer the tonal balance of the DAW and its clarity compared to the 20.7, since the 20.7 might be too bass heavy for my tastes. I don't like huge bloated images, which detract from detail and clarity. Even Magnepan admits this weakness of Maggies--less focus. The right moderate size of any speaker is critical. The 3.7i and DAW are ideal size for your room, but in a huge room the 20.7 would be better and the 3.7i might seem like looking down at an insect from the 86th floor observation deck of the Empire State Building in NY. |
WC: I appreciate very much what you are doing with all these comparos, but I have a hard time getting into it because you never play any classical music which is what I am most familiar with. Most of what you play is highly "enriched" in the engineering process - reverb added, etc. so I don't know if the sound is natural or not. Could you sometime play some grand piano and some orchestral? That's more of what I can relate to. Thanks. |
coot, Welcome here. I am a classical violinist and have recommended classical pieces that I thought some people here would like. I agree that most classical music is more naturally recorded than pieces presented here. Many people have learned about classical music because of some well recorded demo pieces. First they appreciate the sound, and then develop a love for the music, slowly expanding their horizons. |
Here is my prediction. All the amps you have listened to will be boat anchors within 2-3 years. Class D is progressing fast now. You do not need giant heatsinks and banks of transistors to get class A type sound. One pair of transistors and hardly any heatsink gets you 200 watts a channel.....3 pairs and a slightly larger heatsink gets you 600 watts a channel or more. Switching power supplies that can deliver 3000 watts cost very little....they are very light. What is inside the Merrill....is probably not much. They are expensive because they are making it pretty and using expensive jacks, have dealer markup, etc. The packing box for them alone cost a pretty penny. How much money is in the guts?. Merrill does not allow anyone to look inside.....hmmmmmmmmmmmm. Jay, please take the cover off and show us the beef!!!!!.....he he. GaN transistors are not expensive....nor is anything else in a class D amp. You do not need any expensive coupling caps, giant heatsinks, rows of transistors, banks of large caps, 1500 watt giant transformers. Why do class A amps generally sound better than class D....well, for one they are usually made by people who design their own circuit and pay attention to lots of stuff. Class D amps are generally stock modules designed by non audiophiles and then they just stick their own input stage on it. Of course, most of them don’t cost that much, but if you want perfection you cannot just throw stock modules in a box and add a front end and some good wires and jacks. It is much deeper than that. Gryphon knows this....Merrill knows this. D’Agostino knows this. So, we need people to design and modifiy class D amps that listen to every part and think outside the ’Class D..throw it in a box" mentality. Merrill is no throw it in a box thing....not whatsoever.....this is why it is really good. But this is just the beginning. You do not need fancy boxes and shipping containers....you need someone to just pay attention to the stuff inside the box. If Merrill took all the guts of his amp and put it in a plain box and used a plain shipping box and sold it direct.....what do you think it would sell for? Maybe $8K for the mono blocks? Of course, he wants to recoup all his design time and make the most out of the fact that he is first with a good sounding and sexy looking GaN based amp. I understand business. But I also see the writing on the wall. There is no reason why a state of the art class D mono block that does 400 watts a channel should be more than $3K (6K the pair) sold direct. Plain but nice box....great jacks, audiophile fuse and super paid attention to everything inside the box construction. Someone who listens and thinks and tweaks. This will happen before you know it. This amp will weigh under 20lbs. Maybe the about to be released $3K 300 watt a channel GaN stereo amp from LSA with super tweaky mods can challenge some mega buck amps....we shall see/hear. And then there are mods that can be done to the Purifi module that can take it to new heights. So much fun coming and so cheap.........boat anchors away! |
I agree that class D has no soul. I have tried several. In general they do a lot of things well, but , like someone said , after you listen for a while, you feel like something is missing . It is hard to explain, but to me it is lacking "Soul" .It is very fast, great bass,good highs, but i think that they sound kind of dry or sterile. Now i have not heard anything in the price range of what Jay is presenting, but it is still class D Some well know names have commented on class D ,and it is posted here . https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/31671-class-d-turns-out-it-does-suck/ |
I was just working on mods to a Purifi based amp today....and kept thinking.....I have heard that voice sound more real......then I changed the 4 inch input wire to my own custom wire.....WOW! Goosebumps. The wire that was in there is the Hypex interconnect which is what VTV and Nord use.....simply junk. Again, most class D amps are just thrown together.....every single thing has to be listened to....this is why Class D has had no soul. Soul coming real soon.....and affordable too. This is what not to use: https://www.hypex.nl/product/ncore-signal-cable/102 |
@grey9hound Can only agree with your statement. I had a pair of Mola Mola mono block on test for some 2 weeks, to see if I could replace my power-hungry PassLabs X350.5. NO WAY! In short, I had the same experience as you described it. Though, really well and solidely made stuff, and accordingly pricey to boot. Putting the X350.5 back in, had just so much more authority and overall natural sound quality. These Class D monos, for me, sounded like hyper-hifi. Just not right. At all. Michélle |
Fastfreight, I have heard only the Mola Mola Kaluga amps at home on 2 occasions, both times well broken in. The MM Kaluga has excellent neutrality, whereas my Mytek Brooklyn Amp is slightly sweet/warm, but only by comparison. All other amps I have tried, with the exception of my Bryston 2.5B SST2 are warmer in tonality than the Mytek. The Kaluga has big bass which is full and tight. That full bass was a deal breaker for me, since my other amps are leaner, which suits the intimate chamber music I mainly listen to. |
Grey9hound, I know you won't spend the money on any Merrill amp, but I will say their tonal quality is on the warm side, although probably not as much as your tube amp. You would find Merrill 114 I tried for several weeks to have plenty of "soul." As I said, tube lovers would say it has the "soul" of a tube amp, plus much more extended bass and HF with control. WC also said that the 118 has no brightness at all, which I also found with the 114. Maybe GaN is responsible for more warmth, but it is early days, and there are so many variables, as ricevs just said. |
justmetoo, It is likely you would like the Merrill GaN class D amps, which have the sweetness of Pass. I heard the cheapest of them, the 114, which Merrill and others I have met say is sweeter than the 116 or 118. So even if the expensive 118 is affordable to you, you actually would prefer the 114 for the sweetness you want, such as Pass or Mark Levinson you own. You can handle the 44 lb weight of the 114, and it runs only slightly warm. Minimal power consumption, since it is on all the time once plugged in. |
The hypex cable is just plain stranded tin plated copper with some poly something on it.....probably PVC....hard to tell. This is totally ordinary wire. My wires sounds warmer, more natural, way more extended, more air, more space, more dynamic, more 3D, more real.......just more everything. Way better. 4 freakin inches....makes all the difference.....everything has to be listened to. Everything makes a difference. My wire is two strands of solid core type 1 Cardas BARE 24 gauge wires twisted together and put in a cotton sleeve. The wire is listened to for directionality and put in the best sounding way......and a cotton tie is put in the middle of the 4 inch piece to further damp any resonances on the wire. You can see pics of this wire on my website. Someone described one of my mods as looking like dog food........white wires running all over da place....he he. |
@whitecamaross OP Interesting comment on bass control of the Pass X350.5. Not that I disagree, but I had a notion, it is what reflex-port (Burmester 961) plus room nodes, was at least adding to that tendency. Then I recalled this issue, from way back studies, of the 'back EMF'... created by the 8" woofer, in my case. Similar issue with some Watt/Puppies I'd auditioned in my system, a while back. The damping factor of the X350.5 is quoted reasonably high at ~170 and that in theory at least, should take care of that issue - but, there are different ways to ALLOW for this back EMF to be absorbed more rapidly by the amp. My best way, *very* short speaker cables, 4 foot, single (i.e. not bi-wired) connected to the bass terminals, and 5½" mid-woofer and AMT tweeter connected by a substantial set of short copper-jumper, braid type cables with crimped cable shoes. It makes a notable difference in my setting. Leaning out the bass response (maybe X350.8 ?), affects EVERYTHING, all the way to the treble, as I had noticed when auditioning the Mola Mola monos. Seems, ultimately there's no free lunch, eh? 🤔 Michélle 🇿🇦 |
justmetoo, I follow your analysis, but there actually is a "free lunch" in some ways. An amp that is lower in distortion and more accurate, will have more precision in all freq, low to high. Electrons don't play favorites--I like LF, you like HF, etc. This is apparent if you are familiar with live, unamplified music and the sounds of nature, where everything is coherent, with all freq both sustained and transient being evenly balanced. Just accept the fact that the midrange in electronics as well as live, will be neutral, not dry or warm. If you seek warmth in midrange, you will wind up with loose bass and rolled off HF, which are warm manifestations of inaccuracies at these other freq. Warmth in live concerts is due to other factors like room size, acoustic materials, etc. That is a different topic. |
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Okay, had a chance to relisten to the last video on my better headphone playback system, and I'm giving the win to the Merrill Audio monoblocks. I think I just am not a fan of D'Agostino. Since these arrived I can't remember one shootout that I thought either the amp or the preamp won. I would choose the Luxman pair over the D'Agostino pair, even though they cost half as much msrp - personal preference, and Gryphon all day over either. Sad to see the DAW's go, but knew it would eventually happen -- they had a great run. Hopefully you choose well on the next speaker. |
I guess I'm on the soul train too. The Merrills sounded very exciting and I can see why many would prefer them. However, as good as they were in both the lower and upper frequencies, I still feel like it's missing that something - soul I guess. Today's Class D sounds to me a little like the way I used to use my equalizer in my teens, with a bit of the u-shape (bringing up the bass and treble). That's part of what makes the sound very attractive for me. On some things though, I miss that extra something - that soul. Dave |
Since I was one of the 1st to say I feel the "soul" is missing when listening to Class D let me say I don't hear it initially yes Class D can sound very good BUT after listening to one of these amps for 5-7 days then going back to Class A or AB you really start to understand something is missing in that crucial midrange....I call it SOUL. Just my opinion. |
kren0006, True about stereotyping, and I would agree about listening to each amp and give it the chance it deserves. On the other hand, I don’t think it’s an issue to identify a trend, based upon items that have been heard. However, for items that have not been heard - it’s not fair to lump them before hearing them. For my comment about class D, perhaps I could have framed it better, mentioning the class D I have heard recently, rather than being absolute about class D. Dave |
I don’t understand the point of all this. How can we know how good each thing is when you are listening to a system.....DAG versus Merrill. So, which preamp is best? Which amp is best? Why are you not doing a shootout between each component? I don’t buy things in sets. And how do you know what you are doing if you are using different power cords on each amp......and you have the DAG amp on a $5000 stand and the Merrill’s on the rug? And the preamps are sitting on different stands....and you do not have audiophile fuses in anything (which can totally transform something....I know the DAG stuff uses fuses....stock fuses suck). You are obviously having fun, that is for sure. But, what have we learned? |