@phcollie,
Agreed!
Agreed!
My Experience With Tekton
I know this is a polarizing discussion point and was thus hesitant to share unless I could keep it objective, helpful, and concise
I have no intention to be inflammatory, sway anyone’s current opinion or beliefs
I merely want to share information in two specific areas, my results of product performance and my experience with the manufacturer
Background and reference point
I replaced a pair of Revel F36. The F36 is the upper end of Revel’s lowest tier floorstanding speakers and retails for $2,000 MSRP per pair
Took approx. 45 mins to unbox, level and connect
Like for like drop-in replacement, same location on the floor as the F36s, the listening position did not change, identical electronics and cables
We’ve all got our preferences, biases, different levels of experience, etc; but share the common limitation that we just don’t know what we don’t know
I’ve not heard a pair of 30K speakers but expect to someday and envy those that own them
In my VERY limited understanding, it’s near impossible to pinpoint how any specific system change will behave and perform across the board, contingent on the variances in electronics, set up and room. These three items alone (electronics, setup and room) make me think that while similar in nature, but at a critical listening level, each combination is unique and a different snowflake or fingerprint
Listening results
Product delivers as advertised
Meets or exceeds every performance expectation I had hoped for
After approx. 5 hours of listening over 3 days I tried to characterize the sound. The first thought was neutral, but that was understating what I was hearing. I eventually landed on natural or real. The voices and the instruments sound VERY real to me. This is as close as I have come with my electronics, setup and room to sensing that someone is singing to me or that someone or an entire band is playing for me
To date, each song that I’ve played, is the best version of that song that I have heard in a playback, and I’ve listened to all of them 100s and 100s of times
Some of the improvement was by a small margin, but most songs, 65% conservatively speaking, by a vast margin – night and day, game changing stuff
Chet Baker didn’t sound like a presentation from 1958, it sounded as fresh and real as a new recording with the benefits of 60 years of technology advancements. Exile on Main Street didn’t sound like a home recording from 1972 it sounded like 2022 with many layers of percussion, keyboards, horns and background vocals
Is the sound of this $5,000 pair of speakers comparable to the sound of a $30,000 pair of speakers? I don’t know, as mentioned I’ve not heard a pair of $30,000 speakers.
What I do know is the $5,000 pair of speakers, simply put is the best my system has sounded by a wide margin
Again in summary, it sounds real, like someone is singing to me
Experience with the manufacturer
I had hemmed and hawed for 2 or 3 months before placing my order. One day the website mentioned a future price increase but until mmdd you could still order at the current price
I called and spoke with Tammy and told her I wanted to lock in on the current price point but wasn’t sure what product or configuration I wanted
She built an open-ended order with current pricing and told me to contact her when I knew what I wanted
With work travel and other commitments it took me 4 months to finalize which speaker, Moab, which upgrades, beryllium tweeters and Cardas connectors, and what color, white
I was never pressured to make up my mind or that my window for the lower costs was going to expire
Since I was the one dragging my feet, I offered multiple times to pay for the product
Not once did they hint or take me up on my offer to pay in advance
They did not bill me until the product shipped
Once I had made all the config decisions, the build and delivery were again, as advertised
Tammy mentioned a 4–6-week supply chain delay with beryllium, that arrived within her estimated timeframe
Once the beryllium arrived, she said she was waiting on cabinets, eta 5-7 days, followed by build and paint, and shipping approx. 10 days after she received the cabinets
Within 2 weeks Tammy emailed my owner’s manual, unpacking instructions and told me to expect a call from the freight company within the next week
Freight company contacted me on that Fri and scheduled delivery for the very next Mon, Aug 30
The boxes arrived scuffed and with multiple impact points that dented the packing material
There are no blemishes or damage to either speaker cabinet, the packing and packaging worked as designed
Upon unpacking, I didn’t experience a heavy smell of paint or wood, if I put my nose to the cabinet, I could smell fresh paint
The cabinet finish or construction does not appear inferior to anything else in my inventory, KEF, Revel, Klipsch, Paradigm, Polk, and Elac – permission in advance to laugh
Enjoy the journey and happy listening
Respectfully
393 responses Add your response
I beg to differ Danager. If using class AB with a limited A bias, you definitely want to know the accurate sensitivity if your listening standard is 65-75 Db. Also, any published standard can be measured, so if it is simply a lie, then it speaks to the character of leadership & ownership. The room I'm planning is large, Hardwood & wainscoting, and listening position will be 18 Ft from the transducers. Buying new amplification means I want an accurate number here period. Certain Tube Amps are ruled out when a 94Db Speaker is only 87Db. Another Reason: One amps Distortion vs Power Output to reach the Standard SPL that I listen to is not linear, well it is perfectly flat at only 1 watt. At 30 watts on this particular amp it behaves much differently than at 10 watts. Anyway, I will not waste time here trying to explain. It is simply more than a number to me. |
Its just a darn number made up by some engineer somewhere as a baseline to measure loudness. It assists you pairing an amp's power rating (another made up number) to allow you to drive them to a loudness level you desire. The measurements reference aren't even consistent. Is it 1 watt one meter or is it 2.83 V? What are the measuring frequencies? I don't live in an anechoic chamber so how are they going to react in my room? The actual number is irrelevant but do they meet your expectation in your room is extremely important. |
@phcollie, See the technical manual of my speakers in the link below: JBL explains how they measure their speakers and arrive at their specifications. See the last page. Also, note efficiency is not the same as sensitivity. Hope that helps. http://www.lansingheritage.org/html/jbl/specs/pro-speakers/1984-4430-35.htm |
Someone throws some nonsense out there, the usual suspects take it as gospel and blow it all out of proportion to the point they have created their own little alternate universe. Like the science-fiction story with another Earth opposite the sun. On other-Earth Raven Blackhawk sub out is fixed and Tekton speakers are low sensitivity. Reality check, dopplegangers: the sub out is variable. Always was. Tekton speakers are high sensitivity. We now return you to our regularly scheduled sewing circle. https://youtu.be/2HQh4YRw9H8?t=161 |
@mozartfan
How can I go about locating speakers with an honest sensitivity in the range you are mentioning. Are there some manufacturers who publish realistic figures besides Revel? I wonder how many people have purchased a misrepresented speaker, then went and bought another amplifier because they were not happy and did not know that the sensitivity was false by such a large margin. |
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"How nice and reassuring to know we have our own little panel qualified to pass judgment on who is and who is not worthy. Where would we be without these golden-eared sages? Is it possible to overdose on Irony? |
twoleftears4 I bought a pair of Klipsch Forte Fours which were a step up from the hype speakers served by a rude ass but ended ended up with Proac Response threes. You could say I'm picky, I flew to Hamburg German to play Steinways over there because I didn't like the NY Steinways and I'm an instrument maker in NY. WWW.PhilBarone.com. The Response 3's hits you like raindrops on your face but you have to "learn" how to listen to them. |
twoleftears4,304 posts09-08-2021 11:57amEvidently, if it's on the internet it must be true. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Most of what I tell my tech, he comes back with this line. I'm starting to rethink things lately. A bit more critical. |
Sound familiar? I least I know they suck because I've heard them.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ My tech took on a job for one of his clients, north of here,,, renteda cherry picker to get the beasts to his 2nd floor balcony... customer says to tech upon hook up fired up **I don't like them** One must be very careful with Wilson;'s, either you love them or hate them. And yes my Seas Thors , like Scansp[eaks in the Wilson's , claim 87db. Compared to my Wide Bander /rated 92db. its a lie, More like 85db if that. My guess is Wilsons are also 85db or lower. Of course ck Scaspeaks web site , for a hyped/fudged sens spec. Off 2 db is heck of a lot SPL. My line in the sand acceptance rating, is 91/92db true bonifide sens, |
@mozartfan Here is the link to the Stereophile measurements which caused me to raise the question. The review was not a bad review however the measurements were a sidebar so many missed. Very detailed but it puzzles me why they are off by 7Db? Especially if tested nearfield. The tester also points out exaggeration in the low end so if "faithful" representation of the source material is a requirement then Tekton may not be the choice. For me, I am all about an accurate reproduction of the source. https://www.stereophile.com/content/tekton-design-impact-monitor-loudspeaker-measurements Trying to put together another system that will run on either low watt Class A or tubes and I hoped to find a real sensitivity in the mid 90s. |
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Definitive Audio here in Seattle and Bellevue has been selling Wilson since like forever. From 1990 on I have heard them, and if ever I hear one sound good will let you know. My dealer friend Stewart, when he moved here one month did something like $1M volume just in people selling all their Wilson Mark Levinson dreck to buy his stuff. The kicker for me was the day I first heard a Linn turntable on a wall system at Definitive and then after being impressed with how good that little $30k system sounded the Definitive guy wanted to show off and played me his premier Wilson flagship system. Which within seconds I was like why'd you do that this is $300k worth of crap! But a lot of audiophiles are closet masochists. The harder and more painful you make it the more they like it. Why would they want to mess with Tekton? They sound great right out of the box and driven by anything. Where's the pain and suffering? Where's the need to blather about impedance and watts and burn-in? Where's the piano finish? Where's the insufferably elitist sales force? Face it guys, with Wilson suck is not a bug. It's a feature. |
Wilsons SUCK! wilson's from some 20 years ago were among the most hard to listen to uber high end speaker i recall, utterly piercing and robotic in sound more recently i understand the company went to a soft dome tweeter that has significantly changed the way the speakers present music played through them |
Wilsons SUCK! I heard a pair once in a shop in Portland stuffed on a wall with a whole bunch of other speakers on unfamiliar equipment demoed on unfamiliar material. Rated at 87db efficient we all know that's a lie They only have a single tweeter They came with grill covers maybe that's why they cost more than a sports hatchback. Everyone knows they cost that much because they have five times the engineering and testing expertise than automobiles. But I've heard (insert your speaker brand here) in a dedicated speaker room with equipment and material I'm familiar with and they sounded a lot better. Sound familiar? I least I know they suck because I've heard them. |
Back to the Grills! Jason from 2 channel audio said in his review of he Uruz on June 26th that he had ordered the speakers on Feb 22nd...which he received late June, but without the grills. He said he then called Tekton and they said that with the wood shortage and their 12 week speaker backlog they weren't planning to make grills for a while. Hmmm....this is disappointing, I thought the whole grill thing had finally been resolved. If you take a person's order, then do everything humanly possible to deliver that order on time and exactly as ordered. Listen from about 1:50 in to 2:40 for the story...also, for what its worth, he loved the Uruz and preferred them to the Zu Dirty Weekend mkii. Tekton Uruz Speaker Review vs. ZU Dirty Weekend MKII - YouTube |
Since we are on the subject of multiple drivers,, lets take a look at Wilson, the undisputed King of multipile driver designs. I know why abs like Tekton and Wilson employs multi drivers. Its to try and compensate for the low sens of their midwoofer/tweeter designs. The Seas Thors has dual W18E001's, which I always felt was the best sounding speaker..Add in the super life like voicing of the Millennium, can't be beat... Then I started experiementing with wide bands. After some months experiementing, one day I decided to hook up one Thor on one channel and a wide band on the other. I was blown away. The Thors got both boots and his hat shot off before he even drew his gun. |
phcollie170 posts09-13-2021 12:32pmI am not an engineer and do not fully understand why specifications claimed and those measured vary so widely. Perhaps someone could explain? This from Stereophile... I used DRA Labs' MLSSA system and a calibrated DPA 4006 microphone to measure the Tekton Design Impact Monitor's frequency response in the farfield, and an Earthworks QTC-40 for the nearfield responses. My estimate of the Impact's sensitivity was 87.5dB(B)/2.83V/m, considerably lower than the specified 94dB. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I missed that part of the Sterophile review\ so glad you posted the review dealing with sens. Ever since I alerted the audiophile community last year about how super duper critical was the sensitivity factor,,seems every lab is fugding their numbers,, Seas , I believe changed their sens stat on their Crescendo tweeter to read **92 db sens** when in true listening, my tech says his sens gadget (Not a Mr Carlson's high tech gadbget, still has some capability to detect a good guess))) says its not more than 87/88, I tested it in my system, with a 2.2 cap, and found it is no more than 83, IF THAT.. Midwoofer/tweeter speakers all suffer from this below 90db sens. There is no such speaker from Seas /Scanspeak that breaks 90db. All those specs on Seas and Scanspeak have to be verified = just numbers means absoluetly nothing. The speaker in your room is not more than 90 db. My Thors state 87db sens on their site, , more like 84db(IF THAT!) when heard next to my wide band which are a true bonifide 92db. |
Believe it or not, making a decent working, looking, and fitting grille is not easy nor should it be a after thought. A poorly designed grille will eventually start to fall apart, and that's not the worst of it. A poorly designed grille can cause a lot of edge defraction from the drivers and baffle. Also if the grille cloth is cheap and thick, well, I don't think I have to tell you what will happen to the high frequencies. A properly designed grille will fit flush to the baffle and will be thick enough to have flared out edges on the driver holes to prevent defraction of frequencies. Grille cloth should be quality type and transparent acoustically. Good examples of this type of grille quality are on Vandersteen speakers such as their Model 7, Quatro Wood CT, and Treo CT, respectively. |
Why is it I find the whole subject of not getting grilles on speakers that never should have them in the first place amusing? Reminds me of the time a poster tried to convince his “audience” that a European purchaser of a certain speaker brand should quit complaining that his speakers didn’t make it all the way to his address (as had been promised, of course) and instead fork over the additional 350 euro when he learned the speakers had only made it to an airport 450km away. Oh wait - same poster, same speaker brand. Curious, this defensive stance. Of note, the speaker brand completed the delivery on their own dime after some correspondence with the purchaser. |
1 Who determined the speakers should never have grilles? 2 Why does Tekton offer the option of grilles and promises to provide them to requesting paying customers? 3 Why the very long wait time for what is a relatively simple to make accessory? 4 Does Tekton believe that the speaker grilles degrade the sonic performance of the speakers? If so should this option be revoked to prevent customers making a poor decision? 5 Is it possible that some find the multiple tweeters and driver array aesthetically distracting? Why not respect this concern some customers may express who otherwise enjoy the speaker’s performance? 6 Does a dismissive attitude serve the interest of anyone? Why is this situation amusing? Charles |
I was disgusted not so much as the wat my Double Impacts played but as how they didn't live up to all the hype surrounding them. Reviews saying that they were as good as ten thousand or twenty thousand dollar speakers? Give me a break. And, the service really sucked. I didn't mind waiting 3 1/2 months but the people there just didn't have a clue what they were talking about and Eric was rude as you know what and wouldn't give me the time of day. As for the speakers, a big ho hum, mediocre. I dumped them. If you're thinking about buying them make sure you try before you buy and consider the fact that it'll cost you a few hundred to ship each one back. Oh, and read a story called "The Emperors Clothes" before you lay out your hard-earned cash. |
I am not an engineer and do not fully understand why specifications claimed and those measured vary so widely. Perhaps someone could explain? This from Stereophile... I used DRA Labs' MLSSA system and a calibrated DPA 4006 microphone to measure the Tekton Design Impact Monitor's frequency response in the farfield, and an Earthworks QTC-40 for the nearfield responses. My estimate of the Impact's sensitivity was 87.5dB(B)/2.83V/m, considerably lower than the specified 94dB. |
WOW 94 db sens. Even if its close to 94db, I'd say it should sound pretty good. + I love the fact has paprus fabric cone wmidwofers. waittt, now i see 94db at 2.8 v/m,,,hummm, I prefer rto see sens as 1 meter, as is normal,...something fishy about the specs. Besides why 7 tweets per channel??? 1 pure Be/Nd tweet from DavidLouis under $200 pair... beats 7 OK tweets. I just dont see the need for 7 tweets. How much are these guys anyway? https://www.stereophile.com/content/tekton-design-impact-monitor-loudspeaker-specifications |
asked several times by me and others how his company tested the product for sensitivity ratings
EVERY single lab making midwoofers/tweeters are fudging the sensitivity numbers,,ever since I alerted the audiophile community about how EXTREMELY important and super duper critical was sens db ratings...Seas has their **FlagShip* Crescendo tweeter at 92db sens. My tech tested it, says its no more than 87db,,I tested it, its really not more than 83db, IF THAT.. 1/2 the sens of theie old Flagship the Millennium. I do not trust any labs sens #'s. As for charts,,hahahah , big lie there too. The only speaker I have found accurate on high sens ratings are wide bands,, some are true, while some are fudged. . Like Voxativ,, claim 95db on their AC1A, ,My tests show its not more than 83db sens,,IF THAT! Buyer beware is all I have to say. Sensitivity is everything in a speaker True real sens,, not fake, hyped numbers. If a wide band is not at the very least, a true 91db, I'm not interested. |
Yep,it was quite eye opening having an owner of a company threatening users on this site and trying to intimidate them....for me what was even more revealing was he was asked several times by me and others how his company tested the product for sensitivity ratings and what 50k to 100k speakers were tested to support his claims...no answers to that but he still kept chiming in with threats......outstanding owner! |
@tomic601, I wasn’t aware of that thread and probably was deleted before I stumbled upon it. I’m just suggesting the demeanor and online personally of certain forum posters can be criticized separately from assessment/judgement of an audio product. Disdain for certain posters shouldn’t carry over to dismissing the actual audio component they relentlessly hype. Charles |
@charles1dad Your normally astute thought and commentary just a bit off the mark here in asking us and potential customers to ignore the dude who runs the company. In the deleted thread, he threatened legal action broadly saying at one point “ this isn’t over “. He also staked out his view that dissent was from “ card carrying Democrats “. Well that is just stupid, short sighted and ignorant - pretty much the drivel we are subjected to by team sycophant and Albert. Yes the thread was deleted. Essential parts preserved. There is this cool thing called screen capture. I await the letter from his attorney. Somehow, i suspect it must have been sent to the MyPillow dude for legal advice… Just Hilarious |
