Most Realistic Recordings

Herb may have it .. but the losses and gains w any excellent piano recording STaRT with microphone selection…. Like @bdp24 i made my own with an arsenal of very good ribbons… they all pale in comparison to the towering Bosendorfer… but hey, that’s the journey we are on…

this is a fantastic thread, my faith in the good people here hath been restored….

One reigns over all: "For Duke" direct-to-disc on RealTime records 

 

Oh yeah, forgot about that one Herb! Took me years to find a copy of For Duke after HP raved about it so much. It was going for pretty big money there for awhile.

Joe Jackson has numerous well recorded albums (New York Live and others).

I have the originals, but there are now some remasters out that are highly thought of.

I would like Body and Soul on CD (for the little computer setup) and am considering a remaster from Japan.

 

DeKay

For voice and acoustic guitar, get a copy of Tea For The Tillerman by Cat Stevens. However, make sure it is the version on Analogue Productions (available as a single disc at 33-1/3 RPM and a double disc at 45), as it is the only version on LP that was mastered properly (by Bernie Grundman): without Dolby A processing.

For years HP raved about the version on Island UK (the "pink label" pressing), which perplexed me; my copy sounded weird, the overtones characteristic of Cats' Ovation guitar and the drumset cymbals strangely muted. The kick drum was also absent it's weight and punch.

Bernie Grundman discovered, when mastering the album for Classic Records in the mid-90's, that the original mastering had been done assuming the recordings were made using Dolby noise reduction. They weren't! All released versions of the album were issued with their high frequencies depressed by the Dolby playback equalization and compression!

This a great question and terrific conversation!

Try 

 

 

I'll second the recommendation of Vikingur Olaffson's DG studio recordings.  His recording of Philip Glass compositions, in particular, is realistic and nothing short of stunning.

Thanks @herbreichert, ​​@dekay, @bdp24, @tkhill, and @gg107! (apologies if I've missed someone so far, I'm struggling to keep up with all the great suggestions! ;-)

As folks share, if you have a link to some site that at least shows what the album looks like, that would really help me out a lot. Thank you!

One other thing to consider: most people don't listen at home to piano recordings at the same volume as if they were sitting ten feet away from a grand piano.  So try this: establish a "comfortable" listening level, then inch the volume up slightly.

@twoleftears 

One other thing to consider: most people don't listen at home to piano recordings at the same volume as if they were sitting ten feet away from a grand piano.  So try this: establish a "comfortable" listening level, then inch the volume up slightly.

I completely agree with you. Finding the right volume level helps tremendously, I've noticed.

It's not the recording. It's the speakers.

Listen to:

Little Person by Michael Wollny (wait for the string bass to pluck their first note)

Nasty by Vincent Ingala

Ahh!!  The search for the Holy Grail!   That's why we are all here!.

Thanks, tisimst, for this thread. As many have pointed out, it is unusually civil and constructive for this forum.

My two cents:

First, I agree with zgas-music about the general principle that "small ensembles" (and, by extension, solo instruments) sound best on one's home system. It's really not possible to reproduce a symphony orchestra in a grand space like the Musikverein convincingly in one's living room. So, from small to large, emphasizing idiosyncratic options others have not yet mentioned:

Solo piano: Beethoven's Sonatas opp. 57 and 111 by Carol Rosenberger on Delos. Not my favorite performances, but strong and confident—and she plays them on a Bösendorfer Imperial Concert Grand piano. This piano doubles the bass strings, and has an enormous sound. Arguably, this is "inauthentic" for Beethoven, as he composed these pieces for the pianoforte, a very different, much more modest instrument. But these two sonatas are "heroic" indeed, and sound "superheroic" on that super piano. The recording was made in 1981, at the very beginning of the digital era (it is a digital recording). Early digital notoriously sounds harsh. Not this CD.

Ivo Pogorelich's performance of Mussorgsky's "Pictures at an Exhibition" on DGG is very natural-sounding. An audiophile friend turned me on to this recording, and I agree with his embrace of it.

Solo violin: Hilary Hahn's first recording of the Bach sonatas and partitas. Unpretentious artistry intimately recorded.

Solo cello: bdp24 recommended Starker on the original Mercury vinyl, and I wholeheartedly agree. I have owned that 3-LP box set since high school, and it is one of my prized possessions. There are three different recordings/performances by Starker; the Mercury set from the early 1960s is the best by far, both for sound and for interpretation. IMO, this is what Bach himself would have chosen from that huge field of alternatives. But I also agree with mceljo that the Bailey on Octave is outstanding, and has great sound. For that matter, Bailey's earlier performance on Telarc is also outstanding in both respects. 

ECM has been recommended by several folks, and I will concur there too. Jarrett, of course, but almost anything else as well, including their experimental stuff. Manfred Eicher is a genius, and the guiding force behind the label. If you like choral music, check out Vox Clamantis, a CD called "Filia Sion" (Gregorian chant, with other medieval things done in a slightly contemporary fashion, and gorgeously recorded). But one of my very favorite disks is Arvo Pärt's "Te Deum" on ECM. About half an hour of pure bliss! 

For Haydn symphonies (small ensemble performances, spectacularly well recorded), try any of the Orpheus versions on DGG. My favorite is probably No. 53, "L'Imperiale," but they're all good. And available cheap on eBay. The Orpheus performance of Beethoven's complete "Creatures of Prometheus" music is another favorite, and one of my "reference recordings." I've written about it on other threads. If you know Beethoven, you'll know the Overture to this piece, but the incidental music that follows it—an entire CD of little-known middle period Beethoven—is just as compelling.

Haydn's "Creation" ("Die Schöpfung") is another of my reference recordings, performed by Gardiner (his Beethoven cycle on original instruments, which was praised by someone above, is also outstanding), on Archiv. This is a big piece, with orchestra, chorus and soloists, but it is so well recorded here it makes the hair stand up on the back of your neck. And it's wonderful music.

Finally, just to shut myself up: "Uncommon Ritual," an odd but delicious album of miscellany by Edgar Meyer, Bela Fleck and Mike Marshall (so, acoustic bass, mandolin, guitar, and banjo) is really beautiful, and so naturally recorded it feels very much like they're all in the room with you.

FWIW, my wife is a pianist, my daughter a violinist, and I play cello. We play together in the house all the time, so my ears are attuned to how those instruments sound in my listening space. These recordings faithfully reproduce the timbre, scale, and presence of piano, violin and cello with amazing fidelity.

So many great additions to my list of classical music to try out. I don't often listen to classical and I now have a full list to dive a little deeper into thanks to this thread. Appreciation to everyone for posting and the OP for starting the thread.

 

I was recently considering starting a similar thread since there is often talk about a system that can produce that "Live" sound. Since you want live here are contributions I find well recorded and worthy of mention.

 

Led Zeppelin - "How The West Was Won"

Unsure how such a fantastic recording comes out of a live concert from 1972 in Long Beach from a band known for poor production quality. Side 1 is fantastic.

 

Mark Knopfler/Emmylou Harris - "Real Live Road Running"

I listen and feel deprived. Of all the concert missed! The whole album is a pleasure.

 

Shawn Colvin - "Live"

A recent find, thanks to Roon/Qubuz, from an artist I've followed since her first album in the 80's and recorded in my town. A guitar and Mic. Simply perfect.

 

--Another Jerry

 

 

I wouldn't say it's exactly realistic, but it sure is exciting: Talking Book by Stevie Wonder. Stevie plays every instrument on some tracks, including drums (and blind at that!). "Superstition" rocks like mad, especially the clavinet and drums.

@fstein 

It's not the recording. It's the speakers.

We both know that speakers are the weakest link in the audio reproduction chain. That's kind of why I left speakers (or electronics, or room, or setup, etc.) out of my question, because I don't want the infinite variety of gear to dominate the conversation. Every piece of hardware, from the moment the sound wave hits the microphone's diaphragm, to the time a new soundwave is created by the speaker, changes the signal to some degree so that what we end up hearing is not quite what was originally produced. Some pieces of gear affect it more, others less so. I think we can all agree on that. This is why I left my question more subjective.

I want to hear if you feel like you have heard a recording, whether on your system or elsewhere, that you felt sounded more real than not. Because, if you have heard something like that, then someone else might, too, even on a different system from yours! It might be the clarity and soundstage of the presentation, it might be the ambience was captured particularly well, it could be that the relative dynamics from each "voice" (whether human or instrument) was as balanced as if heard in person, it could be that you felt that "full body" experience you get when you are at an in-person event. It's up to you! If you've had that experience, I'd love to know what you heard so that I can try it out, too.

 

@lrlacosse 

Ahh!!  The search for the Holy Grail!   That's why we are all here!

It could be. I like great sounding music. Sometimes I'm really in the mood to hear something as if live, but not most of the time. Any suggestions for me of something you heard that had a more realistic feeling?

 

@larry5729, @snilf, @manogolf, and @bdp24  thank you for all those suggestions!

i would imagine that at least in theory [i've never been privileged to hear an ambisonics recording on a full height-channel ambisonics system] that the full [height channel] ambisonics recordings in the right room would be the literal height of aural "you are there" realism. 

My best recordings were engineered by Rudy VanGelder at his NJ studio during the late fifties, early sixties. I have a copy of Rhythmstick, which was recorded there in the final years of it's existence (1990). It was co-produced by Creed Taylor who founded CTI Records.  It features Dizzy Gelespie, Art Farmer, Phil Woods, Bob Berg, Airto Moriera, Flora Purim, Jimmy McGriff, Robben Ford, Rumaro Lubambo, and notable others. It sounds fantastic as do most of the Rudy VanGelder engineered recordings.

Also, most anything mastered by Bernie Grundman sounds great as well.

My first "CD" purchase(early 80s) is Keith Jarrett - "The Koln Concert", original issue in 1975. An ECM issue made in W-Germany.  Solo piano.  I read somewhere he did not get the grand piano normally used and had to play a less quality instrument.  But he amazingly literally makes that piano sing and resonate/harmonics.  I have no idea what was used to record or method.  Recently purchased a JAPAN SHM-CD release.  Even better.  Through the many years my audio equipment has changed many times and I always use this CD as a go-to for comparison.   Can I hear his grunts and howls better. Is the foot pedal noise more present.

I have not read every post of this thread and know you did not want this to be a pissing contest for everyones audio gear but a recording could be the best possible in the world. If you do not play back on quality audio gear you will not hear it properly. 

I have yet seen someone mention :

Discogs - Music Database and Marketplace

https://www.discogs.com

This website is a bibliography of every album/CD release and all versions, country of origin and date.  I now use this resource to find Re-Masters of my favorite recordings.

Lawrence From MI

 

Two more jazz recordings:

 

Milcho Leviev Quartet's Blues for the Fisherman, and

 

The Chevalier Brothers' Live and Jumping

@lrlacosse

I have not read every post of this thread and know you did not want this to be a pissing contest for everyones audio gear but a recording could be the best possible in the world. If you do not play back on quality audio gear you will not hear it properly.

I don’t disagree at all, but in a way, that’s my purpose here. I know there are folks here that have gear I could only dream of that make music reproduction simply amazing (i.e., a well-recorded, live event sounds really authentic). I know I’m not there yet in a number of ways, which is why I am soliciting ideas for tracks I can use to check my own system--something to look forward to, if you will. If I only have tracks that have mediocre recording quality, my gear, no matter how good, will only appear to sound mediocre. I certainly won’t only listen to great, live-recorded music, but when I do, I hope to experience it in all its glory.

Hope that makes sense.

And thank you for your suggestion about searching in Discogs!

Great thread, now I have so much new music I need to find. When I was auditioning speakers I used piano recordings to select the ones I liked best. Thanks 😊 

@yoyoyaya said: "Milcho Leviev Quartet's Blues for the Fisherman...".

Not so secret late Art Pepper record! 

@lrlacosse 

As I've thought about it more, another reason I'm avoiding the equipment in the conversation is because I want folks who might not have the most amazing equipment to have a say in this. If they've had a great experience and have something to share, I respect that! A real (enough) experience does not equate to dollars spent on a high-end system and I don't want folks debating over that.

And I take back what I said above by implying that you have to "have gear I could only dream of [to] make music reproduction simply amazing". I can't say this is a necessity, or rather, I hope it's not ;-)

I was present when retailer Walter Davies played Gordon Lightfoot’s great version version (my favorite) of "Me And Bobby McGee" for Bill Johnson of ARC, who was at Walter’s shop delivering and setting up a complete ARC system for his newest dealer (Johnson, a pilot and small plane owner, visited his new dealers via flying himself to them!). I was stunned by the sound quality of the recording (as well as it’s musical worth), as was Johnson. Bill said "Hey, that IS a great recording". Walter gave Bill the LP, and I returned home to San Jose and bought myself a copy of the Lightfoot album that contains the song (If You Could Read My Mind). I of course still own and play the album. Used copies are not hard to find, or expensive.

The recording is also great for featuring the bottleneck guitar playing by the master of the instrument, Ry Cooder. I also use the track for component evaluations. Reference demo material!

@bdp24

You forced me to break out my old A&M Tea For the Tillerman LP. Most likely not an initial pressing as it took me a while to warm up to the music on the album. The sound is a little buzzy-fuzzy, exactly how I remember it. I have most of the guy’s other LPs, and I think the majority of them sound better. I remember going to the Pea Soup Andersons in Buellton to listen to a buddy play at the bar. He did his share of the artist I used to refer to as Stephen Katz. Anyway, his simple, elegant guitar playing had a lot of influence on my style back then.

1st, a great thread. 2nd time here. As I was in the industry, I used many " tracks " to demo gear, as you did mention tracks. Tin Pan Alley, studio version, Stevie Ray Vaughn; Keith Don't Go, from Acoustic Live, Nils Lofgren; Layla, Clapton Unplugged; Hotel California, Hell Freezes Over, Eagles; Many Presley, Sinatra, Sarah Vaughn ( as examples ) sound really good. I can go on and on about " tracks ", but you have lots of info. Enjoy ! MrD.

If "Tea for the Tillerman" is your thing (several here have mentioned it), here's one of the best deep dives into alternative masterings of any classic record I know of:

 

The two top suggestions here are the MFSL SACD and the 50th Anniversary two-CD set, remastered in 2020. I've got a couple of the original LPs, on Island (UK) and A&M (US), and the 2020 remaster beats them both. The second disc is also very worthwhile, with out-takes and intimate recordings in small clubs of some of the favorites.

@bdp24 Came here to post the Cooder/Bhatt collaboration A Meeting By The River. What a phenomenal example of purist acoustic recording.

Yuko Mabuchi Plays Miles Davis (Live, 2019) - sounds live on my system.

 

- anything you can find on the Umbrella label - they did a couple of excellent big band direct to disc recordings with Rob McConnell and the Boss Brass

- Miles Davis box set of "The Great Prestige Recordings" - 45 rpm, remastered by Stan Ricker

- Lincoln Mayorga and Amanda McBroom - Growing up in Hollywood Town - the last cut on side 2 - Silent Lady - has an excellent piano solo by Lincoln - to my ears, it sounds like you are there in the studio - its a direct disc recording

- would agree with many of the commenters also - 'For Duke' is excellent

Somebody make a spreadsheet with all these suggestions!

A lot of good suggestions above.  I particularly like the copy of "For Duke" that I own, but there are other M&K Realtime recordings (direct to disc) that are also terrific sounding, such as "Fatha" (Earl Hines).  

Most of my really good sounding recordings are of jazz, for some reason.  I particularly like the following (I am sure I am just temporarily forgetting some of my favorites:

Jazz:

Ellington: "Blues in Orbit" (original six-eye Columbia)

Great Jazz Trio: "Direct from LA" (direct to disc from East Wind label)

Clark Terry: "Alternate Blues" (audiophile reissue)

Yamamoto Trio: "Midnight Sugar" (Three Blind Mice-almost all of their recordings are good).

Brubeck: "Time Out" (original six-eye Columbia)

Brahem: "Thimar" (CD-my "proof" that CDs can sound fantastic)

Battaglia: "Re Pasolini" (CD)

 

Pop/Folk/Rock:

Eva Cassidy: "Live from Blues Alley" (CD)

Zevon: Self Titled

Kate and Anna McGarrigle: Self Titled

Chris Isaak: Heart Shaped World (CD)

Weavers; "Reunion at Carnegie Hall" (original release and AP reissue)

 

Classical:

Vivaldi: "Concerto for Hartbois, Basson et Cordes" (CD-Astree label-shockingly good sounding)

Part; "Fratres" (CD-Telarc)

Most of my collection is classical, but I do find it hard to pick out favorites based on recording quality.

 

I should have added the following:

Armstrong: "Satchmo Plays King Oliver" (Analogue Productions reissue)

Macleod: "Come to Find" (original Audioquest LP release, CD--interesting comparison, the CD sounds fantastic, the LP sounds even more present and real)  

The Harper Brothers : " Remembrance, Live at the Village Vanguard ". I was introduced to this by, at that time, the US distributor of Jadis gear ( my friend was his partner ). Harry Belafonte Live at Carnegie Hall. Cowboy Junkies : " Trinity Sessions ".

I have both the Belafonte Live at Carnegie Hall and the album where he returns to Carnegie Hall in original RCA recordings; the sound quality is terrific.  I have heard the audiophile reissue and it sounds great too, although I haven't had the opportunity to make a comparison.  With some recordings, where the tape remains in good shape, reissues can be better or virtually identical to the original, but with others, it seems that the original cannot be topped.  Still, a less than perfect reissue can be terrific sounding. 

I have some records that I did not name that are astonishingly good recordings, but the music isn't so good.  Some labels, like Proprius, put out quite a few such recordings.  For Christmas music, I can recommend their "Cantate Domino" album that is mostly decent music that is superbly recorded (the original LP is better than the CD issue, though both sound good).

Great tread. I have no good examples to add - just that I've always felt the piano is the most difficult instrument to get right. I've always believed this was because of the sheer size of the instrument and how easily that sized instrument can go from attack to decay. If you're mic'd close enough to capture the nuance of the decay, you're in the red when the key is initially struck. So you back up the mic, and the end result is a piano that just doesn't sound 'live'. 

Yes, thanks for many good suggestions in this thread!

manogolf - re: Led Zeppelin - "How The West Was Won". I understand what you mean by ’live’ sound. But in my rig it doesn’t translate to ’good’ sound. I compared Immigration song from the 2018 LP box and Qobuz streaming, giving the LP a slight edge. Yet the main problems seem to be with the recording, hall acoustics etc. This is certainly an energic and exciting concert album, in other respects! BTW I have the Classic Led Zep box also, with the first four LPs, and actually like the original LPs better...I think...(have just checked LZ III).

Lots of great suggestions here—thanks everyone for keeping the positive vibe. I’ll just add one solid piano recording I use to demo gear. In 1992 Phillips released a recording of Mitsuku Uchida playing Mozart live in Tokyo. It isn’t the BEST audiophile recording of piano I’ve hear but it does present well in terms of body, tone, and mid-hall perspective. Not as close in detailed as som audiophile favorites but creamy and textured in a way some miss the mark. And, most importantly, the playing is superb and the musical flow is well rendered by the engineers. Can probably be found for $5 in your local record shop or online and worth the effort!

A dilemma appears - what is meant by "realistic"? The best possible sound from the band or artist? Or what we would actually hear, at a concert? Yes thank you, both - studio as well as live albums? That’s my view. But my idea of "realistic" goes towards "good", "the best possible" sound. Although this is often a studio album, it can be a live album, or concert.

For example, I have the excellent piano album by Maren Selvaag: Close to Shore (2016 LP on Pave the way label, recordet at Avatar studio in New York). A year later, I heard her at a concert in Aulaen, in Oslo, from a seat in front. The sound was way better! But then, Aulaen is known for its good acoustics (maybe the piano was better too, though I doubt it). So there you go.

Some other suggestions from my side - somewhere along the line from "good" to "realistic":

A Aftab: Vulture prince. Have ordered the LP based on what I hear from Qobuz streaming.

Sault: Air is also on my LP to buy list, sounds good from streaming. Demanding recording - choir, orchestra, etc.

LA4, The: Pavane pour une infante defunte (1976 LP, On: EW. Code: EW10003
Pure and realistic, even includes full recording details and pictures.

Pillip Glass: Akhenaten. 3x LP 180g in box with folder. Quite realistic? The hymn, especially, is both otherworldly and beautiful.

Terje Rypdal: Conspiracy, ECM LP 2019. Electric realism? His guitar work feels sculptural.

Robby Krieger: The ritual begins at sundown (LP, R&D records 2021). Check out his version of Chunga’s revenge - for more amazing guitar work.

Charles Lloyd: Tone poem (LP on Blue note, 2020). Great sound.

Pharaoh Sanders + Floating points + London symphony orchestra: Promises. Luaka Bop LP, 2021. Also very good sound (if not quite up to Tone poem - but this must have been more difficult to record).

Some honorable mentions:

Prefab Sprout: I trawl the megahertz (LP on Sony, 2018). Beautiful. Hypnotic. Realistic? Who knows. This is a very "produced" album.

Bob Dylan: Time out of mind. This album stands out as a "produced" album, for me, with a special atmosphere, created I think mainly by Daniel Lanois.

Procol Harum: In Concert With The Edmonton Symphony Orchestra (1972 Chrysalis LP). This is a great illustration of the challenges of recording an orchestra and a rock band (1) in sync and (2) tuned to each other. Realism AND good sound are less easy to achieve, than e g with a small jazz combo.

A general point, regarding giving some preference to ’good’ sound: even if it isn’t quite ’realistic’ at the moment - e g, ’you can’t do that on stage’, - it can become more realistic, in the future. Music engineers and producers are very much part of music development, in this view. Consider the Beach boys, trying to recreate the magic on the original single version of Good vibrations, in concerts - they couldn’t quite do it, but they certainly became a better band by trying (like, on their Holland LP).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ecm bobo stensons war orphans is really nicely recorded.

Cantando as well.

John taylor has some cd's out that are well recorded/peter erskines set of cd's.

As @needfreestuff mentioned, the stuff released by the Japanese label, Three Blind Mice, is, generally speaking, quite well recorded.

Also, check out some of the Maybeck Recital Hall Series:

 

I nominate John Coltrane’s album My Favorite Things. In the Qobuz HiRes mastering (24/192), the imaging is superb: I can clearly delineate the exact location and even the angle of McCoy Tyner’s piano, the locations of Steve Davis and Elvin Jones, and finally Coltrane on the far right (when viewed by me). The recording quality of the whole album is phenomenal, for which I credit meticulous microphone placement.

If you are talking vinyl, the pressing quality and process matters of course, but the truly great sounding records were expertly engineered and then care and quality were taken in the pressing process.

I recently tried a couple of the MFSL Ultra disc one steps that eliminate steps in the tape to record manufacturing process, and the Paul Simon Still Crazy one really sounds like you are in a room with him and the back up vocals are really incredible and well defined. Instruments are great too. They're pricey, but worth a splurge for a few albums in a collection. I'd prefer if they cut out some of the big packaging cost and dropped the price closer to the Analogue Productions 45s, which are also great. I'm not a fanatical tree hugger, but these CDs killed an lot of them. I wouldn't buy one just for the pressing quality though, I have to really like the album.

I preordered the Somthin' Else Ultra disc which is my 2nd favorite jazz album and can't wait to hear that one. I have all of the MFSL original UHQRs (except Tea for the Tillerman - I have the AP one of that which is great) and the Ultra Discs are as good as or better than them, but it's hard to judge because the music is so different and the UDs are 45s and the UHQRs are 33s. In my experience, 45s always have an advantage, all other things being equal.

The UDs killed a lot of trees (damn spell check). 

+1 for "Jazz At The Pawnshop".  A truly outstanding reference recording that is surely one of the best live music recordings ever.  If you want to know if your system can drop a vibraphone or clarinet into your listening room right in front of you, this is the recording that will tell you.  The 30th Anniversary hybrid SACD contains bonus material previously available only on limited editions and an extra DVD of the vibe and bass players talking about the performance.  The liner notes detailing the recording engineer's philosophy and methodology are interesting to say the least.  

Little Feat's "Waiting For Columbus" is also an excellent, "realistic" recording.  

Vivaldi: "Concerto for Hartbois, Basson et Cordes" (CD-Astree label-shockingly good sounding)

@larryi 

Nice post, but could you please identify this (soloist, conductor, etc) so that we may find or stream it?

Thanks.

Always love these types of threads for confirmation of some of my favorites and lots of new sounds to investigate. My suggestion for piano, and that I use as a test for my system, for piano dynamics, sustain, presence, plus generally for reproduction of cymbals, bass and male vocals is Jamie Cullum's - Twentysomething on CD. (It's also on SACD for DSD reproduction, but I have the CD). The test track I use is track 5 -  'But For Now' but the whole CD really shows what your system can do. More info here: