Priorities.... I live in a tent on the streets of LA, but you should see my system. I walk around Beverly Hills on garbage day hoping to find GIF panels that have been thrown away. The vinyl tarp has poor acoustic qualities.
members and their systems
for the short time I have been on here, I see that members will start a thread asking about a certain piece of equipment or speakers.. they will then buy that piece of equipment / speakers, start a thread about it saying how good it is and then next thing you know, they are starting another thread asking about another piece of gear as they are looking for something different. what happened to that piece of gear that was so great ?
i get the whole buying thing....but where are members getting the money to do all of this stuff ? do they not have other bills such as rent / mortgage payment, car payment, other bills to pay for also ?
i get the whole buying thing....but where are members getting the money to do all of this stuff ? do they not have other bills such as rent / mortgage payment, car payment, other bills to pay for also ?
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Birdscantrow, that's a good question about where some site members get the money to be purchasing this high end "stuff" when it takes most of us all we have to deal with normal living expenses and bills. Like you, I wished for ages when younger to be able to afford high end equipment. Now there are obviously rich guys or gals around for whom this presents no problem. For many of the rest of us we've had to manage our finances over many years in such a way that we finally can buy some high end equipment in our dotage. You can, if you work at it, pay off your mortgage before you retire. Medicare takes care of most medical type bills then. Likewise you can pay off your car. If you're fortunate enough to have picked a profession that pays a pension that helps enormously also. Now unless you hit the Lotto, you're not going to get to this point in your life any time soon. So the answer to your question about how a regular person with bills affords this kind of high end equipment is, they don't. Not until later in life only, with planning, maybe investment, retirement IRA's you pay into while you're working, or other strategies. It can be done by regular working folk, but not easily, or without a great deal of patience while you take care of your regular bills and expenses. Finally that day may arrive when your planning and perseverance pays off and you can dip your toes into the high end market. I'm only speaking for myself here, others surely get their money for high end equipment by other means, nefarious like oregonpapa and jjss, or otherwise. Mike |
The hobby is an interesting balance of priorities. On the financial allocation side of things, each of us make what we make, some obviously more than others. There is a great deal of wealth out there. There is also a great deal of strife out there, always has been and unfortunately it always will be. You get to thinking you are doing pretty well until you take a step back and look around you. Also, watch out for those giving advice, including me. Many on this site are a touch older than average and they developed certain parameters that defined their success: living frugally, getting their house paid for, etc, etc. Thats the model thats worked in the US for a very long time. Digging a little deeper, having sufficient cash for the inevitable emergency or economic setback (personal or the economy as a whole) has always been a good idea. That got turned on its ear in 2008 and many who worked hard and played by the rules and bought all the house they could leverage into lost a decade of fiscal opportunity because they were married to their mortgage. If your home is your largest asset then its very likely that your asset allocation strategy could use a review. Im not casting any stones here, just pointing out that moments in time change things forever. Has covid rendered commercial property valuing models moot? Housing prices are unsustainable in many areas and many people have seen their values rise to the point that their belief in their own strategy and the self righteousness that comes with it have also risen. Same goes for the stock market. The oldest lesson in finance is the only cure for high prices are high prices. Housing and real estate ownership: if the average individual isnt in the game though then they will never accumulate wealth. Period. So, if someone is renting they should calculate what it would cost to own something like they are renting and ensure that they not only cover rent but also put away enough to facilitate owning in a reasonable amount of time. If they cant visualize that plan they are either renting beyond their means or sticking their head in the sand. That doesnt mean they should buy the second they can, only that they should be able and prepared to when the landscape is right. Bad financial decisions are most typically made during good times. Betting on tomorrow to pay for today. Dont do that. You see all kinds of behavior all over our economy. Dont get too wrapped up in what others do or dont do, have or spend. Personal responsibility is different for everyone but it is also something we are each pretty clear about even if we dont always act responsibly. So, for those of us warped enough to be afflicted with the audio hobby, many have accumulated gear over the years and traded up and continued to allocate funds to the hobby. It adds up over time. Sure, some people overspend and do so irresponsibly. The economy is overcooked right now if you look at housing, used car prices, online spending and it trickles into audio. Used prices of gear these days is very high and when something decent gets listed for sale, it gets snapped up. I buy and sell alot of gear and never make money LOL. I do it because the shopping landscape has forever changed. When I was a young man pining for a piece of gear, I would go often to the dealer, waste his time, listen forever, offer to sweep his shop until the point where either I had enough money saved or he would wear down. Today, if you want an extended demo, you either buy new from a vendor with a liberal return policy (I hate that) or buy used at a value where you can move it on without much financial leakage. I think thats alot of what you see when you posed your original question. Also, don’t let some of the snarky posters get you down. They are the exception to this community rather than the rule. They spew BS at every opportunity, insult at will and stare at their screen non stop waiting for their next victim. In addition, when viewing their system pictures on some occasion I wonder why they they fret over their carbon fiber cable elevators rather than replace their bordello red carpeting but hey, everyone allocates their own resources to their own satisfaction. Most of the nicer audio nuts here lead a balanced life and have better things to do than sit around and defend their speaker brand as if they had been knighted by a self annointed speaker shaman. Have fun, buy what you can comfortably afford and never look at it as a storage of wealth...that would be a mistake seen often and not worth emulating. Welcome to the hobby, to Audiogon and enjoy your music! |
@glupson "I bought all of my audio equipment myself. It was not that expensive, unless you ask my friends" I love it. How many times has this happened to you: A friend comes over, you turn on the system to play beautiful sounds for them, and the first thing they ask, before even hearing the music - "Wow, how much did that cost?" I'm a retired widower and I love my passions. Quality live and recorded music and a great audio system to play the mountains of music I collated since high school is a pleasure that is worth it to me. I'm not rich. I'm not poor. I AM one darn happy listener. |
Does anyone remember the 80’s when great equipment was at a price anyone could afford. Adcom, Carver, Hafler could all be had at a reasonable price. I had a preamp from Spectro Acoustic with two Adcom amps running mono a Michell Focus One turntable with a Dynovector cartridge with a ruby stylus and JSE model 1’s. Wish I still had that system. |
You ask where I get the money. This was it for me. Told my self nothing is too expensive. You just don't earn enough. The problem is always the dummy in the mirror. Get as much education as possible. Apply your self. Listen do not talk too much. Show up for work. Don't work for someone very long. Start a business. If it fails try again. Put your self in the way of money. Money is flowing all the time everywhere. Make a mistake once. Twice your a dummy. If all else fails, marry up financially, win it, or inherit it. If these sugestions don't work sing the song " just a giglio everywhere I go." Just a side comment about this forum. I read the funniest whittiest stuff every day. A lot of smart people here. This forum is just as much audio as it is life. It doesn't bother me people can rude and mean here. That's life. The world can be a cruel place. Get over it. |
birdscantrow You should have stopped typing after the first question mark. Some reasonable answers may have followed. In fact, I'm surprised you received as many pleasant replies as you did. In polite society it is taboo to ask how much a person earns, what they spend their money on etc etc. High end audio can certainly be a "cubic dollars" game just like airplanes, boats, cars, watches, you name it and someone can spend more on it than you can imagine is possible. Regards, barts |
Does anyone remember the 80’s when great equipment was at a price anyone could afford. Does anyone remember the 60's, before the rampant inflation of the 70's that led to the high prices of the 80's? lol! My first stereo was bought with newspaper route and lawn mowing money. Delivered the papers on my Schwinn, same bike I rode to Radio Shack to shop for my stereo on. My first acoustic treatments were egg cartons. My second stereo, Kenwood, Pioneer, Technics and JBL was bought with real money, McDonald's money, $1.85/hr. Sorry, correction. This was 1973. We stopped using silver in 1965. The last vestiges of real money. By real money I meant big money. Back then, if you had a $20 bill you were loaded. Rich. You would carry that thing around, feel like a million bucks, do anything to not have to break that twenty. This is all nuts and nobody's business, but not just because it is impolite to ask. Politeness varies widely across cultures. It is nuts and nobody's business because it is just plain chaotic disorganized thinking. If you want to talk about money, finance, investing, and how to get ahead in life fine, bring it on. I will dish it out and those who are smart will listen and learn how a totally normal guy who started out with a newspaper route and never made more than an overtime graveyard working x-ray tech winds up in the top 1% able to retire comfortably at 64. What this shows is just how nuts the OP's question is. It's not where do we get the money. We don't "get" money, we earn it. One way or another. And once we do earn it, then the question is not so much what do we do with the money, as what do we NOT DO with it. I never had a car when all my friends did. I still do not have a cell phone! Process that one. Granted this is a completely different perspective than most are familiar with. Pro Tip for the OP: if you want to be able to afford great gear some day, read and learn, to see things from a completely different point of view. |
Glad I could shed a little light for you @afisher even though I fully recognize you were being snarky...I can read minds right? Jokes aside, there is no real secret why some people can afford certain things while others can’t, I’ve been on both sides of that equation. I just hate to see people chase lixury items with rent money. If you know anyone with a “boat payment” its playing out before your very eyes. |
I suspect the top 10% can afford a stereo and a few tweaks......cables, maybe the top 2%. Net Worth USA Percentiles – Top 1%, 5%, 10%, and 50% in Net Worth
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@glupson. Thank you I teach high school English and collegiate education. Also, several people have really identified how many of us do manage to afford it. Well, those of us who don't have as much income as arrest. When I was first starting out in this hobby some 10 or 15 years ago, I could never have afforded what I have now. But the whole idea of trade up really works out over time. For example, a component I buy for $1,000 I might sell for close to that and then buy another component for maybe $1,500. I might sell that for as close to that as I can, then buy another component worth $2,000, and so on. Overtime you start getting components built on the financial fossilized remains of your previous ones |
I am somewhat in your corner. I have what I consider to be a very good system and very content with. To a lot of posters here I would be labeled as a low end entry systems. I could afford to spend five or 10 times more than the 10k I have but tell me will it sound 10 times better? I don’t think so. I have heard 100 k systems and they do sound better but not 90k better! Will I never buy another or replace a current piece no I am sure something will come along that I will want, but it will have to be a good return on investment. To me this return is about the enjoyment of the music not the status or a bragging right. I would rather have someone think I paid way more for the performance than someone not recognize the performance because they can’t get over that my system cost more than their house! Enjoy the music that is why we are here!! |
Also, don’t let some of the snarky posters get you down. They are the exception to this community rather than the rule. They spew BS at every opportunity, insult at will and stare at their screen non stop waiting for their next victim. In addition, when viewing their system pictures on some occasion I wonder why they they fret over their carbon fiber cable elevators rather than replace their bordello red carpeting but hey, everyone allocates their own resources to their own satisfaction. I'm crying. LOL This paragraph should be made into a framed poster and be hanging in the Audiogon offices. Thanks, @ghasley -- you made my week! |
You could be surprised how some people get in to the hobby and bring their money to it. I have dentist friend who lives in NYC, and his interests was extremely fair from music and good sound. He was a lot about a cars, travel etc. It was about 10 years ago. We was drinking whiskey at his place and he started crying that his new BMW was vandalized and his luxury car before was vandalized too. I asked him why you keep buying expensive cars if you live in big busiest city it’s just matter of time when it’s will be vandalized again.... he said yah... I earn good money and I want to spend for some good staff and be satisfied... that evening was beginning of his audiophile journey cause I suggested him to invest in good audio gear... he took the advice very seriously.... now he has three top of the notch systems (home, office, summer house) worth a couple hundred of thousands... and he is guru now gives equipment advices to me. :) |
@mitch2 Thanks for posting this: Net Worth USA Percentiles – Top 1%, 5%, 10%, and 50% in Net Worth
I was too lazy to look up current levels but I would even venture that in order to be considered in these brackets this should be “income producing assets”. Otherwise, net worth would likely be declining which the cost of living rises. An after tax risk free rate of 3% would net the individual in the top bracket a little over $300k per year into perpetuity. I would like to be the first to congratulate a certain someone who announced they are a one percenter on being in on the ground floor of every decent IPO for the last 40 years! Going all in and getting it right every time takes mad skills. |
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glupson "In polite society it is taboo to ask how much a person earns..." Why is that so? Well, not being a sociologist I find this a difficult question...save for the fact that (as I'm sure you know) we all grow up in a geography that has its own norms. If you feel as though you would like to continue this discussion PM me. Warm Regards, barts |
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A friend of mine told me yesterday that he wants/needs to buy a new car. He is puzzled how people can afford all those cars you see on the street. A year, or two, ago he went to buy, or maybe it was a lease, a car for his wife (Fiat 500X) and, after whatever paperwork he needed to submit, the dealer asked him if he had added a zero to his income by accident. The salesperson had never seen anyone with such an income buying such a car. To put it in perspective, my friend was worried that the car may be too expensive for his financial situation. Sure, people buy cars more often than D’Agostino amplifiers so maybe it is not a great illustration of the way people acquire expensive things. |
@ghasley should be a t shirt dude, so erudite. Ya commercial property asset values are due for turbulence....I see conversion to condo happening bigtime in constrained growth markets.like Boston. i liked your thinking on 1% also @whart we need to chat again soon brother.. to the OP, your first question is deserving of a lot of focus. i know a lot of gear churners, i draft behind them....big king salmon eat the bait that wild Coho salmon wound...too busy slasshing and moving to eat.... so there is a lot of super gear out there.... have fun |
A good thread, y'all.....'educational' to state a least,...*s* It can be a pricey hobby, pursuit, endeavor....that 'music thing' we chase, each in our own..... I quit chasing the peaks when the cost of the climb grew too steep to attain, at least for me. The spec'd numbers grew or shrank, adding zeros or numbers before or behind the decimal point that I couldn't hear..... "Fine wine", expensive cars, the trappings or traps of habit....fun to sample, easy to avoid... I've not spent a fortune on the new, used, and vintage of my stuff. It pleases my ears for the most part, allows for the esoteric part.... Semi-retired....until CEO/spouse finds a stand-in, no need to hold breath there...*s* Meanwhile, logged in on a laptop in the hospital after having the little toe of my right foot amputated..... I have no short stories....;) |
Miller, you failed to mention the reason for not having cell phone, so I can't process that. However, millions of Americans don't have it. And millions of Americans are actually doing quite well financially. Very expensive audiophile stuff is one thing but something modest worth, say, $50k is another. Again, millions can afford it if they really want it. |
riley804, You certainly don't need my permission to do anything, that is quite a logical leap. I did not say in any manner that any of the replies contained a question about income. What I did say is the OP in an off-handed way did ask that very question. " ...but where are members getting the money to do all of this stuff ?" I guess I'm the odd man out then, I really couldn't care less what people have or how they got it. One last thing, please don't put me and MC in bed together. I have agreed and disagreed with him just as I have with quite a few people on this forum. Regards, barts |
@inna "Very expensive audiophile stuff is one thing but something modest worth, say, $50k is another. " I think this corroborates the OP's initial incredulity. Saying a $50K system is "modest" is like saying a $500K house is modest. For the vast majority of Americans, neither are. Spending $50K on an audio system is well within reach of some people on this forum, but doing so further separates them from the rest and adds to the alienation and dismissal from the non-audiophile community. Yes, I'm aware that there are others who spend $50K in other singular hobbies - boating, RVing, musical instruments -- but to say that amount is "modest" is somewhat myopic to the economic realities of many. |
Miller, you failed to mention the reason for not having cell phone, so I can't process that. Relax. You're not the only one who can't process much. We got one listing 2021 net worth. Nobody knows what 2021 net worth is, for the simple fact it just started. Nobody ever knows what anything was for a year until the year is done. Duh. Yet a whole bunch seem unable to process that one basic fact. Net worth is the value of what you have net of debt. Has nothing to do with "income producing assets". People, the first step in being able to process is to understand the freaking terms! This is exactly what I meant before about you want to understand, first learn to look at things from a different perspective. Instead of the perspective of, "Ow! You meanie!" try the perspective of reason and rational thought. For starters. Otherwise, well, it is starting to feel like this may have been a documentary. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sP2tUW0HDHA |
First system bought in '76. I'm now on only my 2nd pair of speakers and my 3rd turntable/arm and preamp/amp set-up. Before I bought, I spent a lot of time reading the experts' thoughts on various components and taking records to audio shops to listen to the characteristics of the components. I came to trust certain reviewers who I felt were good at listening to music and were able to express what they were hearing, and I knew what was important to me. I guess it was "trust but verify." I trusted the guidance of certain reviewers and verified by extensive auditioning of gear. What I'm getting at is that I'm not a flipper, and the stuff I bought was somewhat expensive at the time, but thoughtful buying makes for years of satisfaction. So I haven't really dropped much of what I've earned over the years on audio gear, in a relative sense. |
@millercarbon You are to be congratulated for establishing and sticking to your financial plan.
Remember everyone, for the other 99% just have some fun and be responsible within your own means. I will never make it to $10.75 million in income producing assets...it has never been my goal. I am happy though that my ratio of charitable giving will mainly prevent that from ever happening (oh, and while I have a good job, most of us who work for a living won’t get there). My main charitable focus these days though is to contribute to causes that support voting rights for all citizens. |
"...the reason for not having cell phone..." It may be that a person just does not want one. Saving on cell phone bill will not be enough for a wealthy retirement. I have recently bought a record from Better Records and it was priced like my semi-annual cell phone bill. True, I do not have what people like to call "smartphone" (the one that makes people less so) so my monthly payment may be lower than many. |
X Ray tech and cell phones. Sounds like that X-Ray tech has some sense. Less exposure, just makes sense. Not to mention the cost savings.. I still use a G3 that's how often I change phones. One is used for streaming on my 650.00 super duper on the cheap stereo system. I use another retired phone all the time for spell check, and all kinds of apps, microphone, tone generator, camera, light, maps etc.. They just don't have a remote, the G4 does.. Great camera though. Not an A7 but good.. |
Job Optional is a good read, ( Casey Weade ) and you can use the smartphone at your optional gig..... I have three: Trustee at two not for profits, and as a technical advisor to the board of a software startup....if you want to call solving problems on a quantum computer “ software “ I was blessed, took a lot of risks in my career, 7 zipcodes, some in foreign lands. Giving back and paying forward are part of our living life and estate plan. My big passion of late is donating to causes that advance social justice, civil liberties....and clean coal ( just checking... ) and there is a lot more to a good plan than 1% ( really any % ) net worth people, but you can discover that on your own.... two hints; Liquidity and income.... tax planning goes without saying.... |
