LYRA DELOS CARTRIDGE TOO BRIGHT, THIN AND SHRILL SOUNDING

Hi, yes, until they break-in at about 100 hours. I've had two. The Hana sound signature is quite different to begin with.
Warm, musical, safe, whereas the 'overachieving' Delos is linear, resolute, revealing, etc. Depending on the associated partnering equipment (phono stage, interconnects) this effect may be magnified. Good luck.

If you can lower the shaft of the tonearm in it's base a bit and see if that helps.

I've had to set it at 47r loading to try to tame the extra treble energy and shrillness. Still doesn't work. This Cartridge is going on Audiogon for 500 bucks. Never again LYRA. 

Makes my analog sound like horrible digital playback. Who the hell designed this thing!?

Your loading is 47 ohms or is it 47K?  The higher the number the less loading you are applying. 

I have a Hana ML and a Delos. Same phono and IC ( AQ Fire ) ( Herron ) , different tables.  Your loading and or your VTA are wrong. Undamaaged, and not worn out  you will have a long list of buyers at $500.

I've listened to that cart. at length, and it's nothing like you described. In fact it's one of the most musical catridges I've ever heard.I'ts got to be your setup. IMO.

I had it at 470, 1k, 47k, 220, 100, 47. doesn't make a difference.  shrill bright sound. junk. The HANA ML absolutely blows this LYRA DELOS away!!! 

I going try to trade it back in on a HANA ML or ORTOFON CADENZA RED. The dealer told me how great the Delos is. NOPE. 

IME, Lyra’s can sound bright and tipped up if their set up isn’t 100% correct. The new angle technology is both a bane and a plus, IMO. The problem with the new Lyra cartridges is that they are extremely sensitive to set up variables and the back end gear that they are used with, more so than any other cartridge I have ever used! The Azimuth, VTF, SRA and A-S adjustments seem to be ultra critical. Loading is also critical. I have been experimenting with loading on mine for the better part of five months, finally settling on 750 Ohms. Personally, I like what my Lyra now sounds like, BUT there are days that I do consider going back to a ’warmer and less resolving’ cartridge, one that is set it and forget it. ( Like a Koetsu, or the Benz that I used to own).

Jeff Lyra’s are very sensitive to set up and slight adjustments. (Alignment, VTA, VTF, Azimuth)
I originally set up my Kleos using the very crude VPI jig that came with my table at first, then I ordered a Mint LP protractor (Much more precise) and a USB microscope to be able to see the extremely fine arc to set the overhang and to align the shadows in the mirrored finish to make sure the microscope was sighting the cantilever alignment grid dead straight before adjusting the cantilever.

Once you are positive your cartridge alignment is as close to perfect as you can get it, and VTF is set correctly, next check that your tonearm is perfectly level with the platter surface(VTA) then recheck VTF.

If it stills sounds shrill and elevated as you stated, and you are sure you have your phonostage at the best sounding setting, the next thing I would suggest is dropping the rear of the tonearm via VTA adjustemnt in small increments.
This reduces the high end extension and adds bass and warmth.

I gotta say, IF those loading changes made NO difference something sounds wrong. Dumb question, did you check if you have the correct tonearm wires attached to the correct locations on the cartridge and aren’t reversing the polarity of one channel. That will kill the bass. My Lyra and my Ortofons have the color coded pins in different locations on the rear of the cartridge body.

This is assuming you have enough break in hours on the stylus.
They do smooth out in the first 50-100 hrs or so in my experience as Puiu mentioned. He is also right about the different sound signatures between the Hana.
The Lyra is lively, dynamic, detailed and airy with a big soundstage and rock solid detailed bass (atleast in my system with my components, tubes and cables.

If you want to sell that Delos and it’s in new condition for $500 don’t hesitate to PM me. I’ll put it on my second tonearm OR my other TT in a heart beat.

lesson learned. a 2000 dollar Cartridge isn't always better than a 1200 dollar one. HANA ML is a giant killer!!!

I guess I'll end with this Jeff,

Like I already said Lyra is very responsive to the slightest changes.

The fact that, according to you:

"I had it at 470, 1k, 47k, 220, 100, 47. doesn't make a difference. shrill bright sound. junk."

makes no sense, it sounds like something isn't right.

It also sounds like you had your mind made up before starting this thread.

Good luck with your Hana.
I hope it works well with your setup.

There are any number of $500 MM cartridges that easily outperform the Hana. The Delos is a far superior cartridge but there are also moving magnet and iron cartridges that will outperform it.
I'm afraid you are right rushfan71, what we have here is a Hana fan boy.

What  $500 MM cartridges?

What $500 MM cartridges?

The question addressed to another person, but in my opinion there are many. 

Those moving magnet carts in NOS condition with genuine Stereohedron styli are not even the top models, but they are better than many MC cartridges:



1) Stanton 881s or mk2 version
2) Pickering XSV/3000 and XSV/4000



If you ask for the cheapest possible superb MM for about $350-750 the Stanton/Pickering have so many followers who can swear those Stereohedron models are great and much better (in terms of price/quality) than most of the new MM in this price.



I can also add Sony XL-50 with Boron Pipe cantilever as a great sleeper, I bought a few NOS samples over the years and compared this model to much more expensive MC carts in my system.



With $700 - 2000 budget the list of amazing MM or MI cartridges is much bigger and very few LOMC can compete with them.

I would be more interested in a cartridge I can actually buy.

Then buy "what you can actually buy".

I bought all the cartridges online, not only those I have mentioned (they are easy to find), but even much more rare ones for my collection of the best cartridges.

You don’t know that JICO made styli for discontinued cartridges too (even S.A.S. for some vintage MM models) ?

You don’t know all those new carts like Grado, SoundSmith, Audio-Technica, Nagaoka, Garrott, Goldring, Ortofon that you can buy almost everywhere (including models for $500) ?

This thread is a good demonstration of the different preferences, some people prefer cheaper MC to more expensive MC, some people prefer MM or MI to many cheap MC, some people just search for the ultimate cartridges in mint condition (or NOS) from the past in every category (MC, MM, MI).

But some people are too lazy to search and discover things, they want others to tell them what to do and what to buy, but it’s not necessary a good advice, often their mentors have nothing to compare those new carts to. Experience is a good thing (not the price) !

I have a Lyra Kleos and have used a Hana ML in the past. There is no doubt by comparison the Lyra provides a more hifi presentation while the Hana is more neutral. I now go back and forth between my Shelter 7000 and Lyra Kleos depending on whether I’m in the mood for a relaxed or hifi presentation. Essentially the Shelter does jazz, acoustic, and vocals better and the Lyra is killer with rock music.

With all of the opinions voiced so far on the Lyra sound, I have not seen any mention of the Tonearm or Turntable used along with the ancillary upstream gear. Surely the cartridge, tonearm, tonearm cable, phono cable and the table have a lot to do with the SQ result? ( along with the set up of the cartridge...which as I already mentioned, is more crucial with the Lyra than just about any other cartridge in my experience!)

IME, the Hana’s are less resolved, less extended at both ends of the frequency spectrum and generally a lot warmer sounding than the Lyra’s. If that is what one is seeking in their music reproduction, nothing wrong, but overall I do think they are a very limited sounding cartridge compared to the Lyra’s.

This Lyra set me back 1700 bucks. I've had 300 dollars cartridges sound better. New lesson learned, moving coils DO NOT sound better than moving magnets. BUT, the HANA ML I had was a nice sounding moving coil. 

I’m on my second Delos (130hours) and it sounds as wonderful as the first one. The tracking force is pretty narrow, 1.75g is recommended. Before you give it away call the distributor (AudioQuest) and see what they have to say. Mine is on a VPI Classic 3 Sig, 3D arm, with  ModWright PH9.0X phono.

Evidently the original post was made not with the intention of getting advice on how possibly to improve the situation, but rather with that of venting about disappointment.

so what is the dealer doing to help you ?

something is drastically wrong.  the Delos is an exceptional sounding cartridge and is not at all bright or shrill.

if you tried loading at 200 ohms, make sure the VTF is dead on 1.75 grams and your headshell is perfectly level to the platter when the cartridge is in the groove, something is wrong with the cartridge or installation.  
have you checked the phase of the lead wires?  

Given the OP's stance, there is no point in further discussion or advice about the Lyra Delos. He clearly had made up his mind about the cartridge before his OP and simply wanted re-enforcement for his position. I am off this thread now.

A Puffin could make it sound good.

Find better recorded/mastered LPs! Particularly original ones from the pre-digital era (1980). Avoid new reissues that were digitally mastered!

Good luck with that Jason.

Horses for courses. Wow. Goes to show you how important 'table, arm, cart., and phono pre synergy is. Not saying OP is totally wrong on his assessment, as I have heard the Delos on my friends TT and it produced some of the finest vinyl sound I ever heard. I have a Well Tempered TT and can only approximate the sound he gets from his setup.

Mmmm...does moderation absolutely not bother to correct the capitalized titles in this forum?

A little netiquette would be enough.

@avanti1960 you basically mirrored what I said and the response was:

"lesson learned. a 2000 dollar Cartridge isn’t always better than a 1200 dollar one. HANA ML is a giant killer!!!"

Something is definately wrong in my opinion as well but it doesn’t seem the OP is looking to solve the issue he is having. He has gotten some solid advice.

If he really wants to get to the bottom of what’s going on, this is the person he should reach out to:

Alasdair Patrick

Apatrick@audioquest.com

I would say that it could be a setup factor or you could be experiencing a mismatch with your phonostage.

delos is what op described and also require quite substantial burn in like all mc.  and you need a warmer turntable and system to complement it well.. it's very open and sharp thus very picky to setup and system matching.  

very narrow margin of setting. the bad part about Lyra is that the diamond mounting is not gold standard. so need to magnify and check at least. 

jvc tonearm ua 7045 and TT 81 101 works extremely well with it.  which easy and cheap to buy. very analog. resolved. powerful and musical combo. 

hana VS Lyra is a totally opposite.. try soundsmith if somewhere in the middle of both. 

I have a Koetsu which is highly sensitive to setup. Suggest you check:
(1) VTA: try the cartridge tail down
(2) Azimuth: turn it a fraction of a degree and observe increase or decrease in distortion
(3) torque of mounting screws (I'm not kidding) with a torque screwdriver; uneven torque is worse than the wrong torque.

Good luck!

As has been stated above.

Set up, set up, set up...

Overhang, alignment, VTF, VTA, Azimuth, Anti Skate, mounting screws...

Until, all those have been done perfectly for your cartridge, and properly for how the diamond has been mounted to the cantilever, then you can't begin to deal with loading etc., or judge its sonic potential.

Has it indeed been perfectly set up?

I am interested in buying your Delos cartridge site unseen for $500 bucks. Happy to send payment via PayPal ASAP.

jvc tonearm ua 7045 and TT 81 101 works extremely well with it. which easy and cheap to buy. very analog. resolved. powerful and musical combo.

Victor TT-101 is not easy and not cheap to buy :) First of all: the Victor TT-101 in perfect working condition is impossible to find, repair cost nearly $2k. We shipped one for repair to JP, other members claimed they can’t even fix their TT-101 for many years.

What is cheap is TT-81, much simpler turntable, easy to fix, but technically not on the same level as Victor reference TT-101 !

@jeffvegas - 

You are completely correct.  The delos is a terrible cartridge, way to thin and bright.  There's NOTHING wrong with your system.

I'm in a particularly charitable mood.  If you can carefully repackage the cartridge in its original box with all the protection in place and no damage, I'll pay shipping and give you $150 to dispose of that terrible piece of phono cartridge.  I'll even test and verify the cartridge's condition for a couple thousand hours.

Normally a bidding war doesn’t go backwards…

tt81 is ok... go look it up in buyee

200 300 ish good condition. I just bought 2 for my friends 

Did OP listen to a dem before buying?
It's understandable most dealers don't want to loan carts for audition like other equipment, but he could have had a dem.  If the sound is as slanted as he says, he would certainly have heard it.

Never buy blind!

well tt is like that.. the more high end the more work  skill, required to make it sounds optimum. also same with speakers. 

if can setup high end stuff and make it sound good.. then no problem setting up cheap stuff and make it sound good but not the other way round. 

@clearthinker

my buddy is also agent for a few big high end brands.. same thing can sound totally different with different venue and owner . I often tag along as a 2nd ear to setup.. distributor and customer relationship is important. what work or not discus with the distributor. buy a system not equipment.. synergy is very important.

the point is not just listen to demo and buy. build a good relationship.. be fair. and normally it ends well. 

tt81 is ok... 200 300 ish good condition. I just bought 2 for my friends

TT-81 is cheap, but reference class TT-101 is always broken and always listed as junk with no return. Repair of tt-101 cost nearly $2k and can tale a year in the USA (if you’re not in USA like myself it’s terrible). Not everyone is a skilled tech and very few have a tech who can handle TT-101.  

Denon DP-80 is better than cheap TT-81 (in my opinion) and always reasonably priced on ebay where buyer is protected and return is possible.

But import tax is different from country to country and it’s very high in Europe if you don’t know (can be 20-30% from the amount that must include shipping cost too).

This is why a brand new Technics SP-10R DD with warranty is better.

I think Luxman PD-444 is great because the owner don’t have to think about plinth (and it’s for 2 tonearms).

 Not everyone is a skilled tech and very few have a tech who can handle TT-101.  

Is your second TT 101 under repair or is it on standby?

Dear OP....
Something is drastically wrong either with your set up or the cartridge itself.  I've had a Delos going on 7 years and am very happy with it.  Replaced a Benz Micro Glider.  Ask the store where you bought it for an exchange.  It is made by a human and therefore subject to any number of manufacturing errors.
Good luck, let us know how you make out...

I like the Delos very much.  I find it plays best at between 1.7 and 1.72 tracking force.