Yes, I understand who J Carr is. I'm just frustrated my 1700 dollar purchase isn't giving the sound I expected. My analog now sounds digital. The Delos tracks beautifully, is the quietest cartridge I've ever heard(don't hear hardly any clicks and pops on records) and is EXTREMELY detailed. Way too much detail. It's lean, bright and too harsh and shrill in my opinion. I have it surrounded by expensive equipment. I think moving coils are overrated. An Ortofon 2m Black will absolutely blow the Delos out of the water. I have it at 1.75 tracking force, VTA perfect. Azimuth is done by eye, hard to adjust on a VPI CLASSIC TURNTABLE. I just sold the plinius koru phono preamp. maybe that was the problem. A BAT VK P12 coming this week. It could transform the Delos. I will report back. |
Jeff, Tube phono stages per se do not "roll off" highs. Perhaps a tube phono stage may have an audio bandwidth out to 100kHz. Whereas a solid state equivalent might go out even farther, but you are not going to hear that particular difference. You'd be more likely to hear a difference in bass definition, but such generalities are dangerous if taken as gospel. |
@jeffvegas Even small changes in tracking force should alter the sound of the Delos quite a bit, which suggests that your current setup has not managed to extract all of the performance that the Delos has to offer. Nonetheless, I wish you the best of luck with whatever you replace it with. kind regards, jonathan carr |
I am replacing the Plinius Koru phono stage this week with a BAT VK P12. If a 8000 dollar tube phono stage can't make this cartridge sound good then it's not my 12k dollar Krell amp, it's not my 5k dollar Ayre preamp or the 5k in cabling. The Delos with be replaced. I'm having a VPI guru come over and check the calibration of my Classic one turntable with the Delos. adjusting azimuth and tracking force does not change the sound of the cartidge. It only affects imaging. The Delos sounded fantastic when I listened to it on all very expensive McIntosh tube gear. Maybe throwing some tubes on it will give me the sound I'm looking for. |
@jeffvegas If the Delos hasn't been modified or retipped by a non-Lyra company, and you suspect that there may be something wrong with it, you are welcome to send it back to us (Lyra) via the dealer that you purchased the cartridge from, so that we can check it over, verify that everything is in good shape, correct anything that is not, or let you know if something has been damaged. Alternatively (if the original dealer has quit or moved), you can send the cartridge to the distributor in your country, and explain that you want to have us check it over. We request that you include a short note telling us what you find wrong with the cartridge, being as specific as possible. And perhaps a list of the partnering equipment (turntable, tonearm, tonearm cable, stepup device, phono stage) so that we can decipher if there is an obvious mismatch. We do this as standard policy; it shouldn't cost you anything other than getting the cartridge to the dealer or sending it to the national distributor. We won't be able to correct anything if the issue is with your setup, or if the issue is personal preference, but at least we can make sure that the cartridge works well and sounds good (to us). I will add that your description of the Delos is quite atypical of the feedback that we get from the vast majority of people who have used it (including those with solid-stage phono stages - tubes or semiconductors shouldn't be an issue as long as the phono stage was designed intelligently). kind regards, jonathan carr |
The Delos is real fast sounding and not particularly romantic, I can see how some might not like it. I thought it was a ton of fun. That said it's a bugger to get set up properly, if you aren't aligned correctly it'll let you know for sure. The alignment, VTA and VTF have to be dialled in to hear what this cartridge can really do. If you're 100% confident it's set up correctly and you don't like it after the requisite 100 hours time to move on... |
Before you give up on this cartridge, unless you already have given up on it, I recommend that you send it to SoundSmith or any retipper who offers an inspection service. As someone else said, these devices are made by humans, and it is quite possible that there is a fault in the construction of your particular sample. For the nominal cost of inspection, it is well worth it to make sure you do not have a defective cartridge. Typically such defects can be easily and cheaply corrected.Alternatively, send it to Lyra for inspection. Surely there is no one more qualified. |
Dear OP.... Something is drastically wrong either with your set up or the cartridge itself. I've had a Delos going on 7 years and am very happy with it. Replaced a Benz Micro Glider. Ask the store where you bought it for an exchange. It is made by a human and therefore subject to any number of manufacturing errors. Good luck, let us know how you make out... |
tt81 is ok... 200 300 ish good condition. I just bought 2 for my friends TT-81 is cheap, but reference class TT-101 is always broken and always listed as junk with no return. Repair of tt-101 cost nearly $2k and can tale a year in the USA (if you’re not in USA like myself it’s terrible). Not everyone is a skilled tech and very few have a tech who can handle TT-101. Denon DP-80 is better than cheap TT-81 (in my opinion) and always reasonably priced on ebay where buyer is protected and return is possible. But import tax is different from country to country and it’s very high in Europe if you don’t know (can be 20-30% from the amount that must include shipping cost too). This is why a brand new Technics SP-10R DD with warranty is better. I think Luxman PD-444 is great because the owner don’t have to think about plinth (and it’s for 2 tonearms). |
@clearthinker my buddy is also agent for a few big high end brands.. same thing can sound totally different with different venue and owner . I often tag along as a 2nd ear to setup.. distributor and customer relationship is important. what work or not discus with the distributor. buy a system not equipment.. synergy is very important. the point is not just listen to demo and buy. build a good relationship.. be fair. and normally it ends well. |
@jeffvegas - You are completely correct. The delos is a terrible cartridge, way to thin and bright. There's NOTHING wrong with your system. I'm in a particularly charitable mood. If you can carefully repackage the cartridge in its original box with all the protection in place and no damage, I'll pay shipping and give you $150 to dispose of that terrible piece of phono cartridge. I'll even test and verify the cartridge's condition for a couple thousand hours. |
jvc tonearm ua 7045 and TT 81 101 works extremely well with it. which easy and cheap to buy. very analog. resolved. powerful and musical combo. Victor TT-101 is not easy and not cheap to buy :) First of all: the Victor TT-101 in perfect working condition is impossible to find, repair cost nearly $2k. We shipped one for repair to JP, other members claimed they can’t even fix their TT-101 for many years. What is cheap is TT-81, much simpler turntable, easy to fix, but technically not on the same level as Victor reference TT-101 ! |
As has been stated above. Set up, set up, set up... Overhang, alignment, VTF, VTA, Azimuth, Anti Skate, mounting screws... Until, all those have been done perfectly for your cartridge, and properly for how the diamond has been mounted to the cantilever, then you can't begin to deal with loading etc., or judge its sonic potential. Has it indeed been perfectly set up? |
I have a Koetsu which is highly sensitive to setup. Suggest you check: (1) VTA: try the cartridge tail down (2) Azimuth: turn it a fraction of a degree and observe increase or decrease in distortion (3) torque of mounting screws (I'm not kidding) with a torque screwdriver; uneven torque is worse than the wrong torque. Good luck! |
delos is what op described and also require quite substantial burn in like all mc. and you need a warmer turntable and system to complement it well.. it's very open and sharp thus very picky to setup and system matching. very narrow margin of setting. the bad part about Lyra is that the diamond mounting is not gold standard. so need to magnify and check at least. jvc tonearm ua 7045 and TT 81 101 works extremely well with it. which easy and cheap to buy. very analog. resolved. powerful and musical combo. hana VS Lyra is a totally opposite.. try soundsmith if somewhere in the middle of both. |
@avanti1960 you basically mirrored what I said and the response was: "lesson learned. a 2000 dollar Cartridge isn’t always better than a 1200 dollar one. HANA ML is a giant killer!!!" Something is definately wrong in my opinion as well but it doesn’t seem the OP is looking to solve the issue he is having. He has gotten some solid advice. If he really wants to get to the bottom of what’s going on, this is the person he should reach out to: Alasdair Patrick |
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Horses for courses. Wow. Goes to show you how important 'table, arm, cart., and phono pre synergy is. Not saying OP is totally wrong on his assessment, as I have heard the Delos on my friends TT and it produced some of the finest vinyl sound I ever heard. I have a Well Tempered TT and can only approximate the sound he gets from his setup. |
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something is drastically wrong. the Delos is an exceptional sounding cartridge and is not at all bright or shrill. if you tried loading at 200 ohms, make sure the VTF is dead on 1.75 grams and your headshell is perfectly level to the platter when the cartridge is in the groove, something is wrong with the cartridge or installation. have you checked the phase of the lead wires? |
With all of the opinions voiced so far on the Lyra sound, I have not seen any mention of the Tonearm or Turntable used along with the ancillary upstream gear. Surely the cartridge, tonearm, tonearm cable, phono cable and the table have a lot to do with the SQ result? ( along with the set up of the cartridge...which as I already mentioned, is more crucial with the Lyra than just about any other cartridge in my experience!) IME, the Hana’s are less resolved, less extended at both ends of the frequency spectrum and generally a lot warmer sounding than the Lyra’s. If that is what one is seeking in their music reproduction, nothing wrong, but overall I do think they are a very limited sounding cartridge compared to the Lyra’s. |
I have a Lyra Kleos and have used a Hana ML in the past. There is no doubt by comparison the Lyra provides a more hifi presentation while the Hana is more neutral. I now go back and forth between my Shelter 7000 and Lyra Kleos depending on whether I’m in the mood for a relaxed or hifi presentation. Essentially the Shelter does jazz, acoustic, and vocals better and the Lyra is killer with rock music. |
Then buy "what you can actually buy". I bought all the cartridges online, not only those I have mentioned (they are easy to find), but even much more rare ones for my collection of the best cartridges. You don’t know that JICO made styli for discontinued cartridges too (even S.A.S. for some vintage MM models) ? You don’t know all those new carts like Grado, SoundSmith, Audio-Technica, Nagaoka, Garrott, Goldring, Ortofon that you can buy almost everywhere (including models for $500) ? This thread is a good demonstration of the different preferences, some people prefer cheaper MC to more expensive MC, some people prefer MM or MI to many cheap MC, some people just search for the ultimate cartridges in mint condition (or NOS) from the past in every category (MC, MM, MI). But some people are too lazy to search and discover things, they want others to tell them what to do and what to buy, but it’s not necessary a good advice, often their mentors have nothing to compare those new carts to. Experience is a good thing (not the price) ! |
What $500 MM cartridges? The question addressed to another person, but in my opinion there are many. Those moving magnet carts in NOS condition with genuine Stereohedron styli are not even the top models, but they are better than many MC cartridges: 1) Stanton 881s or mk2 version 2) Pickering XSV/3000 and XSV/4000 If you ask for the cheapest possible superb MM for about $350-750 the Stanton/Pickering have so many followers who can swear those Stereohedron models are great and much better (in terms of price/quality) than most of the new MM in this price. I can also add Sony XL-50 with Boron Pipe cantilever as a great sleeper, I bought a few NOS samples over the years and compared this model to much more expensive MC carts in my system. With $700 - 2000 budget the list of amazing MM or MI cartridges is much bigger and very few LOMC can compete with them. |
