Just got mine last week. After 24 hours of play all I can say is that this is not your father's class D amplifier. There is not one thing about its sound that reminds me of the class D gremlins that I do not like. The low end filled in and now has deep impact, the midrange is the love child of a beautiful tube and clean hybrid amp - just gorgeous. Highs are very clean and extended. Spatial cues are top notch. My system has had some damn good tube and solid state amps in it before and it has never sounded this good. I am blown away with the quality of sound coming from class D amplification at this price point.
I don't have to hear anything to
know that your conclusions aren't based on anything factual, just your
own opinions.
This is a hobbyist's group, so opinions are what you get. It's not a scientific forum so if you want measurements, blind listening tests and other such distractions, you're likely to be disappointed here.
That's fine for you but it really has no value to anyone
other than yourself unless you back it up with evidence.
Is has no value to anyone - no one at all? And you know this how? And who is it exactly that has appointed you as their spokesperson? Details, please.
As soon as the words mods or such get thrown around then the objectivists have to come in and tell us subjectivists that it is all nonsense. The trouble is......90% or more of people reading this thread are subjectivists.......they believe you can hear differences and that these differences are fairly universal......another words....10 people in the same room will usually hear the same thing.
10% of people sitting in a church do not believe what is being said there (you know, they "have" to be there). Those 10% at least have enough common sense to keep their "opinion" to themselves. On a public forum.....no such decorum!.....he he....a rhyme.. You just say your opinion over and over and over again.......well, because, "it needs to be said, it is the truth....and I am saving the world....and....I am smarter than you"
90% of people here believe it is a FACT that all audio gear sounds different and that there are practically NO measurements that tell us what sounds best. It is mostly ART......everyone has an opinion and they are all valid.....for them......but again....most hear the same thing and like the same thing when all are in attendance together (not at a trade show where the level of consciousness is so varied). I am talking small gatherings of people who ALREADY believe in differences and TRUST their ears. I have attended lots of these gatherings......and the consensus is almost always 100%.......and when it is not....it is usually the person who owns a piece of gear that is the dissenter (ego attachment).
We can trust our hearing.....there is TRUTH in audio.....but you have to do many, many, many super critical listening tests to really KNOW anything........and this is why there are so many varied opinions....as there is way too much gear out there and the opportunity to have them at the same time is extremely limited. We are all bozos on the buss.....doing the best we can. What is best today will be tomorrows boat anchor.....that is for sure.
@kuribo You
are making conclusions about something you have not heard. So you
really do not know anything about this specific amp or mods.
I am commenting on your methodology- I don't have to hear anything to know that your conclusions aren't based on anything factual, just your own opinions. That's fine for you but it really has no value to anyone other than yourself unless you back it up with evidence.
Funny the Benchmark is the one with the most clarity. It is also the one with the lowest distortion. Imagine that!
If an end user (owner) ever gets the chance to hear the stock Voyager or any of the new GAN amps next to a modded one, hope they report their observations here…
The stars would have to align just so, but I envision perhaps two audio friends who each have the amp—one modded, the other stock.
Like Class-D have with switching frequencies at 600-800khz, like this Icepower has https://ibb.co/5Kj0rcP that has significant feedback, and still has rubbish phase shift measurements(red trace).
I agree. In order to allow the amp to correct phase shift, the feedback has to be more than about 35dB. You either run at least that much or none at all, IMO.
@kuribo You are making conclusions about something you have not heard. So you really do not know anything about this specific amp or mods.
When I say wow factor I do have a subjective baseline. It is my CODA #8 amp. I preferred it to the stock Voyager. It is very easy for me to do comparisons of these 2 amps using ROON streaming, an apples-to-apples comparison. If I did not have the CODA as comparison I would likely have been happy with the stock Voyager.
The Voyager has a bit more detail and clarity over the CODA #8 but I still found the CODA to forcing me to stop and listen. For example, I do remember saying to myself wow I never knew that Jimi Hendrix song was this good, etc.. when played with the CODA (along with a lot more music). I have had this type of reaction with my AHB2's but not when paired with my Thiel CS3.7 floorstanders. The CODA and AHB2 do not sound anything alike.
The king of detail and clarity in my systems is the Benchmark AHB2. So I have another subjective benchmark (lowercase b). The stock Voyager does not reach the levels of the AHB2 on those attributes. Now if after the mods the more powerful Voyager reaches the levels of clarity and detail of my AHB2's. I will have a considerably useful amp for my difficult to drive speakers. Again this "difficult to drive" is a subjective opinion since I am not measuring anything, just listening.
BTW - I am expecting the modded Voyager to not sound like the CODA #8 more like the AHB2. However, that is just a guess.
The stock Voyager sounds really good after I replaced the leading edge
muffling stock rubber feet and got better still as I replaced all my 5+
yo machina dynamica springs with these. Outstanding improvement
The mind is indeed a miraculous thing....
What frequency and amplitude vibrations are you trying to damp? What was the spring rate of your old springs versus the new ones? Are they even different? What is the old versus the new damping ratio? Have you checked to see if it is different or for that matter an improvement? How do you know the damping hasn't worsened?
This is why these "tweaks" are nonsense. It's all in your head until you have some objective basis to actually show a change based on reality.
I hear if you smear peanut butter all over your amp it will sound chunkier.
I have had plenty of kit moded over the decades, mostly to the power supplies, internal wiring, or bypass caps. Simple DIY mod is upgrading fuses, which can be a much bigger sonic benefit than many are willing to admit, or now coating the connections with Goop
The stock Voyager sounds really good after I replaced the leading edge muffling stock rubber feet and got better still as I replaced all my 5+ yo machina dynamica springs with these. Outstanding improvement
He says the improvements he made will be easy for me to hear. They also sound like what I was hoping would improve.
I
am looking for more clarity and detail. A bit quieter would be nice,
but the new LA4 preamp I am getting may solve that issue. More musical
engagement or the wow factor would be the best improvement.
Clarity and detail improvements would require reductions in distortion. The distortion of this amp is probably already below the threshold of audibility. Anything he does is likely to decrease performance. Does he have ability to measure before and after to provide any sort of proof that he has actually improved the performance of the amp? Let me answer: No. It will just be his subjective opinion.
More musical engagement and wow factor? How to do quantify these? You can't. It's subjective. He will monkey around with the amp and add noise to it. You can use software to add effects and tune it to your own specific likes easier, cheaper, and with much more control.
I am not dismissing mods but if the item is so great, why does it need to be modded, especially during the warranty period? I had the SCD777ES which was the same as the SCD1 without the balanced output and potted transformer @$3500.00. It’s now a boat anchor and could never compete with my Esoteric X3 SACD player.
The mods I had eliminated the RCA section of the SCD-1. The balanced part was the best part of the unit and that was made way better with the mods. The RCA only SCD77ES was not at the level of the stock SCD-1.
************************************** I spoke to Ric today about the mods on the Voyager. His listening sessions with my stock Voyager yielded similar observations as me. He says the improvements he made will be easy for me to hear. They also sound like what I was hoping would improve.
I am looking for more clarity and detail. A bit quieter would be nice, but the new LA4 preamp I am getting may solve that issue. More musical engagement or the wow factor would be the best improvement. I have that with the CODA #8 on my Thiel CS3.7 and the KRELL K-300i on my RAAL SR1a. So the modded Voyager has a high bar to clear.
I should get the amp back next week once a final part is delivered to Ric.
Jaymark, you are definitely not alone. Very well put.
Pursuit of the next level up among the enthused is not exclusive to audio, IME. My Dad shot competitive skeet and had a bass boat capable of over 70mph. Constantly tweaking everything…
Not specifically arguing the merits of EVS’ Voyager amp mod, because it’s not been delivered yet, but I thought the validity of modding equipment was well-established. Haven’t there been quite a few well known modders over the decades with many many happy customers? And many less well-known modders also with tons of happy customers?
I’ve had two pieces modded by the same person. I only did the second one because the first was so good. Anytime I can identify talented modders, I’m open to doing more. But only if I really like the SQ of the piece to begin with.
As far as choosing between modding a piece or replacing it with a new one, I am comfortable with my ability to assess those alternatives and also in determining if I got good value for my modding dollar. Those perplexed by those of us who like mods might ponder that a bit. It’s not that complicated. If a mod falls flat, so be it. The marketplace will take care of that….
The desire to mod excellent sounding equipment is eminently understandable. Audiophiles are ALWAYS chasing better sound no matter how good it is. So if iequipment sounds really good or better, the desire to mod it is understandable. I have rarely modded bad sounding equipment, at least not recently. I mod really good sounding stuff. I doubt if I am alone in this position but I also know that I do not speak for all audiophiles.
I am not dismissing mods but if the item is so great, why does it need to be modded, especially during the warranty period?
+1 Very bazar behaviour, and if done, hopefully not by some who takes one look at just a picture of it, (no bench measurement/scope tests) and says he can see quite a few modds to take it to another level, without any explanation of what mods can be done take it to that next level.
Mods to digital vs. mods to something like an amp or preamp are a bit different. Years back back I had a tube mod to a Sony XA-777ES. I still have a solid state modded Oppo BDP-83 (which is just there if someone brings a disc over as I'm not into disc playback at this point). Other than minor mods, I can't ever foresee getting either a digital or video thing modded again. For one thing, the draw mechanism and transport is usually only manufactured for a limited period. Once that passes, the manufacturer is not going to retrofit new parts in and write new software for it. As far as not modding during the warranty period, that is a safe practice to follow.
I am not dismissing mods but if the item is so great, why does it need to be modded, especially during the warranty period? I had the SCD777ES which was the same as the SCD1 without the balanced output and potted transformer @$3500.00. It’s now a boat anchor and could never compete with my Esoteric X3 SACD player.
@stereo5 I modded my LSA Voyager because of my experience with the SONY SCD-1. There are a lot of reviews on the Vaccum State mods that I also did on the SONY. The SONY had great bones, a 60 pound SACD player with SONY's best efforts 20 years ago. It cost $5K then but likely $10K-$20K for a smaller company to do the same level of work. In short the mods transformed the unit from great (lot of reviews on this unmodded player) to one that I will never sell, a masterpiece. Even today it is still one of my best digital sources. It is much better than stock and actually some stock features are removed or disabled.
Since you guys are all talking about musicians I will add that a musician who recently heard my SONY wanted to buy it. He could not believe how good it was with SACD's. He owns a lot of DACs and other gear.
So mods are not something I will dismiss because you can buy something better for more money.
“The LSA amp is so good, I can’t wait to get it modded”. That tells me it isn’t that good because if it was, why void your warranty to make it better? I would never mod anything. If I got the itch, I would buy something better and I certainly wouldn’t mod a brand new piece of equipment. I will stick with my big and heavy Mac amp, it sounds great and have no desire to ever mod it.
I suspect the words "bright and brilliant" can easily be equated to harsh and sibilant....so I think it would be worthwhile for those of you that actually play instruments to spill a little more ink explaining what you mean.
When I hear unamplified instruments being played up close (I don't play), I think of what I'm hearing in terms of present, dynamic and powerful...and almost always at a level that I've never heard on a home audio system.
I have huge respect for your technical expertise, but sorry, if you are
not a violinist or any other trained classical instrumentalist you may
not realize that close exposure to real instruments teaches that these
natural sounds are BRIGHT (in the good natural sense, not for example in
the artificial types of distortion that is obvious if you tune the
radio slightly off its freq and get the static which brightens the
sound).
@viber6 I agree! I've been playing instruments since I was three years old (piano); started harpsichord when I was in 6th grade. I picked up string bass in 7th grade and played in orchestras and ensembles well after college. These days I'm in a rock band playing keyboards again only now they are synths and a Mellotron. But I also play flute and have 2 albums of that; used to regularly play out until the pandemic.
The brightness I'm referring to isn't the correct natural brightness of instruments; its caused by higher ordered harmonic distortion generated by all electronics. Your radio tuning example is a great way to illustrate how this works. The ear interprets all harmonic information as a tonality (this is how we can tell the difference between wound and gut strings for example). Traditional solid state amps and tube amps with feedback sound bright because the distortion I'm referring to isn't masked, so the ear interprets it as brightness- quite independently of the instruments being portrayed in the recording being played back. This is why two amps can measure perfectly flat on the test bench but one will be bright while the other is not. Put another way, this kind of brightness is not a frequency response error.
Perhaps it would improve the signal to noise ratio if those with commercial interests in their recommendations either mention such in their posts or not be allowed to post in non-commercial forums.
Tube gear can sound bright and brilliant or dull and warm. Cannot paint the sound of all tube gear with a broad brush as you have. Ralph’s tube gear does not sound like you think in your mind. Unless you have owned his amps? I have owned his pieces. They are brilliant and as lite up from within as the recording may or may not deliver. Also, you hear your very own violin differently than other humans. Some hear different tonality in your violin playing as this is part of being human and unique. So you are not hearing it more correctly than another. When we better understand the subjective part of our individual ear/brain differences and preferences, then perhaps we will stop taking sides and keeping score.
I am starting to learn this after 40 years of being an Aphile and music lover.
I could not even stay in the same room that Benchmark gear was powering. My ears and preferences drove me out while others were completely and utterly immersed in the music.
Atmasphere, I have huge respect for your technical expertise, but sorry, if you are not a violinist or any other trained classical instrumentalist you may not realize that close exposure to real instruments teaches that these natural sounds are BRIGHT (in the good natural sense, not for example in the artificial types of distortion that is obvious if you tune the radio slightly off its freq and get the static which brightens the sound). The microphones in most recordings are close, roughly comparable to the 1st row of the hall, so when most people who sit much further away say that their 10th row sound is comparable to the recording played on their systems, they don't realize that this means their systems are rolled off in HF especially. These listeners would be astonished to go to the 1st row, or better yet, stand on the podium to hear what the conductor hears, which is the most detailed and balanced sound of anyone in the hall. This sound is bright and brilliant, not at all like the sound of most tube equipment. I have an open mind to discover some tube electronics that are brilliant and detailed. On Jay's thread, "My long list of amplifiers..." he plays his new tube mono amps the identity of which he hasn't disclosed yet. They sound brilliant and bright, and he says they are more detailed than many SS amps he has owned.
My 60 years of playing the violin, the latter 50 as an accomplished performer in solo concertos, chamber music, orchestra, and 50 years of being an audiophile and correlating audio system sound with live in all sorts of venues and environments, qualifies me to make the statements in the preceding paragraph.
I really like my CODA 07x preamp but it does not sound like "straight wire with gain" which I think most would appreciate. However, for me I was missing that "straight wire..." on some recordings so I ordered the Benchmark LA4 preamp to add to my office.
I will test the modded Voyager with both preamps but likely focus on the LA4 which will let me hear the Voyager and sources without the preamp adding anything.
If you’re avoiding feedback you’ll need that sort of bandwidth to prevent significant phase shift.
Like Class-D have with switching frequencies at 600-800khz, like this Icepower has https://ibb.co/5Kj0rcP that has significant feedback, and still has rubbish phase shift measurements(red trace).
Our Cherry Amplifiers with a variable switching frequency (up to 2 MHz), allowing audio bandwidth over 100kHz.
If that is correct, this is what Technics did (with SE-R1) fixed 1.5mhz switching frequency/output-filter to move the phase shift up and out of the audio band in the above graph. And why you can get to 100khz bandwidth without too much roll off (phase shift).
Our Cherry Amplifiers use both clocked and "continuous time" digital
circuits with a variable switching frequency (up to 2 MHz), allowing
audio bandwidth over 100kHz.
If you're avoiding feedback you'll need that sort of bandwidth to prevent significant phase shift.
It's obviously not possible for everyone to know everything about every amplifier out there.
You may note in the attached article (from 2017) that Tommy Obrien (Digital Amplifier Company) talks about building his class d amplifiers with discrete parts, not modules, minimal feeback...and Our Cherry Amplifiers use both clocked and "continuous time" digital circuits with a variable switching frequency (up to 2 MHz), allowing audio bandwidth over 100kHz.
Having owned both tube and SS, the thing I recall about tubes is they are more holographic, lighting the music from within. As Ive mentioned, my room is volumetrically large, so for me to get a proper spl I need big tube amps which, unfortunately in S FL are heaters, as are large AB & class A amps (I loved my Kinergetics KBA 75 which (as I recall) was 75 w pure class A.
Among the many things I'm enjoying with the Voyager over the EVS 1200 is, it can be eerily holographic, when the recording is. I never heard that with the EVS 1200, though I very much enjoyed the amp, at least until the V arrived
I don't mind someone saying something is "better," IF he describes what
"better" means. For you and me, "better" means closer to neutrality
with more clarity. For a tubaholic, "better" means warmer, sweeter,
fuller, etc.
@viber6 For a tubeaholic, "better" means 'closer to neutrality
with more clarity'. Just so you know. That might depend on the 'tubeaholic' but all the ones I know are looking for neutrality and clarity that they can't get with solid state. This quite literally is what has kept Atma-Sphere going the last 46 years.
I mention this only so that you know that 'tubeaholics' are not so crazy as you seem to make out (I apologize if I'm putting words in your mouth).
I can identify why this is so: between 1960 and 2005 or so **all** amps employing feedback didn't have enough feedback for it to do what it is supposed to- get rid of distortion. In all cases, while suppressing distortion it also added some of its own. The distortion it adds is higher ordered harmonics and the ear perceives that as 'harsh and bright'; the 'solid state' sound. You can get a tube amp to sound like that too if you add enough feedback. In the cases of both tube and solid state the problem is insufficient loop gain; insufficient gain bandwidth product and poor phase margins (which, if exceeded, results in oscillation).
It is literally the brightness of solid state which is why tubes still exist! You don't have to know anything technical to understand this; its economics and nothing else.
Self oscillating class D amps offer a way around all this. Essentially you put so much feedback on the amp that its phase margin is exceeded and the amp oscillates. That becomes the switching frequency, and now you have a lot of feedback (more than 35dB) which then allows the amp to clean up the higher ordered harmonics generated by the feedback itself. A single formula, called the 'oscillation criteria' defines the loop gain, amount of feedback and oscillation frequency.
One thing about human hearing is that it is relatively insensitive to the lower ordered harmonics (the 2nd and 3rd in particular, which are treated in the same way). Another thing about the ear is the masking principle. The reason solid state has a reputation of harsh and bright with 'tubaholics' is the higher ordered harmonics are not masked by the lower orders as they are in a tube amp. Tube amps actually make more higher ordered content than solid state amps but they are smoother due to the masking principle; you can see how important this is if distortion is going to be present (and it always is)!
It turns out that the non-linearities of class D can cause lower ordered harmonic distortion to occur. These mostly are issues in the encoding scheme and distortion due to deadtime. With the high amount of feedback, the THD you get is at the same levels that you get with a very low distortion solid state amp but there **can** be an essential difference: the distortion *signature* can be more like a tube amp in that it favors the lower orders. Simply due to the lowered distortion, such an amp can be both very neutral and very relaxed- just like a tube amp (until it gets overloaded). Sort of the best of both worlds- an amp with excellent transparency, relaxed, musical presentation and acts like a true voltage source all at the same time.
kuribo, I don't mind someone saying something is "better," IF he describes what "better" means. For you and me, "better" means closer to neutrality with more clarity. For a tubaholic, "better" means warmer, sweeter, fuller, etc. I can read the comments of both types of listeners and learn something about the product being reviewed. To obtain maximum usefulness in reviews, "better" should be dropped, and more precise descriptors should be used.
Why the anger? Name calling? Goodness, this is all subjective and we are here to share the sound we like and what sounds most real and right to us. No right or wrong. No winner. No enemy.
Tweakers, non-tweakers, it does not matter. We are all human and will hear the same live, unamplified music event differently, never mind a stereo system. Yes differently.
kuribo, You are one of the few people on any Agon forum to agree with
me that the ideal of high fidelity is best achieved with
neutrality/transparency. The "straight wire with gain" is indeed what
an amp is supposed to do. Good for you to imply boldly that coloration
is just noise.
When you ask any of these tweaker snakes what they mean by "better", they almost by definition bring out a slew of subjective judgments. There is nothing inherently wrong with stating an opinion but to opine that what one likes better must be some sort of objective truth is naive at best and tends more towards pure salesmanship when coming from the purveyors of all this audio shamanism. Wake up people! There is no "better" when it comes to subjective opinion- there is only different and what YOU perceive to be better. When someone says "A is better than B" without any factual evidence of objective superiority, what is actually implied is "I like A better than B". Will you? Maybe yes, maybe no. Confirmation bias after shelling out the extra money makes it almost impossible for people to evaluate the "tweak" objectively.
Sure you can put racing stripes on your new corvette and claim it rides better. You can put a gold leaf label around your bottle of $10 wine and claim it tastes better. You can claim your amp sounds better when your dog is in the room. And for you, it can certainly be true because opinions are not facts, they are based on individual perceptions. And if we know anything for certain, we know that individual perceptions and tastes vary greatly.
So, yes, give me an amp without any "sound" please. When I order a steak, I want to season it to MY taste, not someone else's, thank you.
Sometimes, he plays music I end up liking. The above is Part 2 (of three - part three isn't out yet - part one was put out a couple of days ago).
It is done at the location of a dealer (Suncoast Audio on the Florida's West Coast) who carries some of the best stuff. If you look at other videos online and see Jay's system, one can see he has a super serious high end system. I linked this part as Part 1 dealt with his top tier amplifiers. In this part, he mentions Merrill Audio, specifically their Element 118 Class D amplifiers (and I've personally heard them at audio shows) and mentions that they may even belong in Part 1 with the list of top tier amplifiers.
That's one reason actual listening (vs. hypothesizing with no experience) is most desirable. Anyone who watches his videos can see what high end components he has and has had (and I'd venture to say that many would take the stuff he didn't like in a heartbeat) and while of course everyone can have an opinion, a preconceived opinion without hands on experience is what it is. I wouldn't seek medical treatment from someone who has read a few medical books and has some experience as a dental hygienist. It's not that such a person is without any medical knowledge or is not smart. It is just not the same as someone who has finished medical school and been practicing for years.
Have not heard the Bryston cubed series but have owned both the 14BSST and 6BSST (3 channel 4BSST essentially) amps, The Modwright KWA 150SE was better than both of those in my main system (Modwright LS 36.5DM preamp). I initially had Thiel 7.2s when I bought the Bryston amps lightly used and then picked up the Thiel 3.7s (and then the Modwright amp). The 7.2s where harder to drive than the 3.7s.
A few years back (summer of 2017) a friend was bugging me about Class D. I told him the last I listened to a bunch of them (probably around 2014 or so) they were getting better but I didn't think they were there yet. I told him I was going to RMAF in October 2017 and would look at them more seriously and to hold on as I'd probably buy one for one of my secondary systems at some point.
In early 2018 (I believe), I started to see threads about the Mivera amp and then picked up the SE version. I broke it in using a secondary system where at the time I had an Odyssey Candela preamp, a Bryston 3BST amp, a Meitner MA-1 DAC and Ohm Microwalsh Tall speakers augmented by a Rel Strata III sub. It's a small bedroom and I had a mini PC running JRiver. I merely substitued the Mivera for the Bryston 3BST. After running the Mivera for a bit over a week, I brought it over to the friend's place where he had a First Watt J2. The Mivera to me was clearly better.
I picked up upgraded fuses and first compared the Mivera to am Emotiva XPA200 I had in my UHD system (Sherbourn preamp and B&W P6 speakers). The Mivera smoked it. Then I compared it to the Modwright in the main system (Modwright preamp, EMM Labs DAC 2X and Lumin U1 music server) and the Mivera was clearly better in every way (which shocked me as I was thinking I'd just put the Mivera back in a secondary system. I cautiously played the Mivera as I was afraid it wouldn't drive my Thiel 3.7s (was I wrong).
Anyway, when I got the EVS1200 (which is dual mono and modded vs. the stereo IcePower board in the Mivera), I broke it in using the system with the B&W P6s (before using it in the main system). Of course it had more power but the ease, clarity, tonality and imaging were clearly much better. I expected it to be a drop better but it surpassed that. It exhibited those same improved qualities in the main system. I had multiple friends over so all the impressions noted above are not just my opinion.
I could easily live with the EVS 1200 (although I'm sure there as things better). I've upgraded secondary systems (still working on those) including the office system (now have Vanatoo Transparent Ones) and watching this thread with interest. Not in a rush. Through the journey, I don't think much of the Bryston squared series (btw, I've also owned Bryston preamps and I also owned one of their DACs - I've not heard the newer cubed series). There's a used 6BSST being sold by The Music Room right now and they are asking $3.3k. To me (my opinion) that's insanely overpriced. A new Bryston 14B cubed (and I've not heard the cubed series (just was that disappointed in comparing cheaper things to the squared series) is around $11.2k. Right now there is a (used) Gryphon Diablo 300 (integrated) on the Canuck Audio Mart for $13k USD. If I was going to spend that kind of money I'd grab the Gryphon. When I bought my Bryston amps (lightly used around 2002 and 2003), they were good values. Then the price of the Canadian dollar vs. the USD soared (and the CAD was worth a bit more at one point) and the list price of the Brystons went through the roof. When the Canadian dollar retreated (I think it is around $0.79 USD as of today), the prices didn't go back.
The current worldwide shortage of some parts I'm sure impacts prices as well and will continue to do so. I'd guess that it is encouraging audio enthusiasts to try some of the newer Class D amps. It seems to me that there are many mainstream A/AB amps (not talking about the ultra high end) being sold for less than they used to be (I noted about the Modwright KWA 150SE in an early response). I wouldn't even consider the Bryston squared series bought used for a home theater as there are better things out there for less money (I realize there are many things today that are sold consumer direct vs. through a dealer network which also impacts that factor). I think that's why there are dealers who deal in the ultra high end who have store fronts in places like industrial parks vs. tradional shopping centers. Those ultra high end products, while really expensive, are clearly better than most of the amps discussed here.
cascadesphil, In what sonic way is the EVS1200 better than the Mivera? My experience with Bryston is that only my 2.5B SST2 is outstandingly neutral/transparent. Earlier ST and SST 3B and 4B models are really mediocre.
kuribo, You are one of the few people on any Agon forum to agree with me that the ideal of high fidelity is best achieved with neutrality/transparency. The "straight wire with gain" is indeed what an amp is supposed to do. Good for you to imply boldly that coloration is just noise.
After reading what corepowertech said about the care and testing that
went into producing this amplifier, I feel that if increasing the wire
diameter would have increased the sound quality it would have been
increased. Probably less than $1 cent total cost.
Most amp designers/builders are trying to produce an amp that does one thing: produce an output that is as close to the input as they possibly can, only larger. That's what an amp is suppose to do, by definition. Anything that produces a noticeable change in the output, unless it can be shown to be a truer representation of the input, is noise. It may be that some like that noise. It may be that some don't. It may be that the noise is too small in magnitude to matter either way. All of this tweak nonsense assumes that every change is audible to all, and that everyone will agree that the new output spectra is "better". All of this without any factual basis, just "trust me". Are people really that gullible?
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Last week I got the mini GAN from class D audio. I have been very impressed with this little amp. I also have the Carver Crimson 275 tube and Van Alstine synergy 450 SS amp. Frankly I like it better than AVA amp and as good as the Crimson 275 with much more power and bass impact. I have also ordered the Voyager 350 and waiting for its delivery."
Thanks for the update. I have the mini GAN too (for a bit) but I just bought it for HT as it is easier just to swap speaker cables when I watch a movie (my main system is an integrated AV system). I broke the mini GAN amp using my UHD HT listening to 2-channel files via my Panasonic 9000 (which goes into a Sherbourne preamp and then out to the amp).
I didn't do detailed comparisons (have old B&W P6s as mains in that system) vs. the Mivera SE amp (with upgraded fuses) but could tell it certainly was somewhere in the same league. At one point I had the Mivera in another secondary system (in a small bedroom) where it trounced an old Bryston 3BST right out of the box. The Mivera then went into the main system where it bettered my Modwright KWA150 SE (which had bettered a Bryston 14BSST I owned before) and now have the EVS 1200 in the main system (driving Thiel 3.7s, Modwright LS 36.5 DM preamp and Lumin U1 music server) which was better than the Mivera.
I am still amazed to this day that the last two (IcePower) Class Ds were better than the Class A/AB amps both in sound quality and driving the Thiel 3.7s (and given their impedance I am still amazed - https://www.stereophile.com/content/thiel-cs37-loudspeaker-measurements). I had Thiel 7.2s before the 3.7s which were a tougher load (base on experience with the Class A/AB amps noted above and others). About 7-8 years back I heard Class Ds at an audio show and while they had come a long way, at that point in time they seemed to run out of steam driving some speakers.
I do think that Class A/AB at some point will become undesirable for most (e.g. https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/mbl-noble-line-n11-preamplifier-and-n15-monoblock-amplifie...) given how Class D is progressing. There is one used KWA-150 SE on hifishark right now for with an asking price of $3,457 ( https://reverb.com/item/36606380-modwright-kwa-150se-stereo-power-amplifier-signature-edition-kwa150...) Given the fact it is a current model that lists for $9k and I've seen other used listings at $3.5k or below, I'd think that for those who objectively listen (vs. those with no experience and prejudice based on hypothetical theories - and there will always be a bunch of those - I wouldn't expect those making more expensive Class A,AB amplifiers to agree as it is not in their financial interest) the word is spreading. It may be a bit before Class D starts to compete with the likes of Constellation, VAC, Boulder, D'Agostino amplifiers, etc., but it has come a really long way.
Looking at the V 350 under the hood pic, it appears one area to upgrade, that could improve the overall sound, is heavier gauge wire from the modules to the inputs
After reading what corepowertech said about the care and testing that went into producing this amplifier, I feel that if increasing the wire diameter would have increased the sound quality it would have been increased. Probably less than $1 cent total cost.
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