LSA Voyager GAN Amplifier

What I said was Pass cannot prove anything because he has not done blind testing.

Please tell us about your blind testing protocols and results for your claims regarding wire, solder, outlets, and all the rest.

 

No bother will be ignoring you.

Promise?

Okay Cindy or Mike or Chris.

Enjoy the rest of your day.

See you around BTW who asked you?

No bother will be ignoring you.

@jerryg123

The only one spreading hate, that i can tell is you. I keep my arguments to the topic at hand, while I people like try to denigrate me, and others with personal insults. You need to learn to practice what you preach. I will call out posts that are quite obviously wrong and a whole lot of those have been prevented in this thread.

Seems I am the only one that even attempted to take a critical look at what is happening with this amp and the OPs setup. I am also not calling Nelson Pass, one of the most respected amp designers, essentially incompetent. That was someone else. I am also not complaining that decades of work on what sounds good does not exist.  Bye Bye Jerry. Take your anger and hate elsewhere.

Hopefully the mods will kill this thread and It will shut @kuribo or Chris up. Cindy eat is just as bad but is multidimensional in her hate and spreads it in other posts calling us all stupid.

Go back to your Facebook Group Audiphile BS. 
 

No more hate. 

@lewinskih01

Unfortunately, no, but the 3.4 is/was a big upgrade from the 3.whatever

The EP3.4 is designed to run with a single amplifier and a subwoofer for extended bass response or run full range in smaller rooms without a sub. The 3.4 has our new custom Emerald Physics cast basket 12" midrange the new Emerald Polyester diaphragm compression tweeter and an improved crossover over the original EP3 that it replaces. Our new .4 series Custom Emerald 1 inch exit Polyester compression tweeter delivers a smoother more extended response along with a higher resolution presentation and greater transparency. The new midrange is more linear and has great micro and macro dynamics.

Here’s a pair just for visual

I said you are making things up about what Pass meant when he spoke his truth to me and that you are making things up about the LSA modules. I did not call you a liar about what Pass loves. I had already stated that different types of distortion produce different sounds and that Pass was doing this. What I said was Pass cannot prove anything because he has not done blind testing.......nor does he know how to make an amp transparent (nor does anyone else). Get your facts straight, at least. I have listened to and read what Pass has been doing for years, so know very well his thoughts on various types of distortion and their sounds. Documented on DIYaudio, reviews at 6 moons and his own First Watt pages.

Big fat wet kisses for you too......Love you.

Nelson - a great measure AND listen guy. Not so full of himself. Still having fun.

Snarky name calling.  Again, would you rather be right or Loving?  How do you think the majority of people here feel about you?  When you point a finger at someone....three are pointing back at you.  You only see yourself.  Please love yourself more. 

I think you should stay.....but I would like you to be loving instead of right.......because you are beautiful.....and I want to put a big fat wet kiss on you.....you are so yummy!

Would you rather be Right or Loving?

I would rather you packed up and took your trippy snake oil sideshow somewhere else.

Wow, you just cannot keep from hammering on me. Nelson is nice, but what he said is real. He respects what I do, but is not interested. How would you know any different from what he spoke. It is arrogant to assume you know something that you don’t. I doubt you have educated anyone. I regret nothing. I love this moment. I speak truth and love. I have nothing to apologize for.....it is arrogant to assume that I do. Throw the hammer away. You don’t need to be better than me. You don’t need to be RIGHT and therefore me WRONG. Would you rather be Right or Loving?......that is the question to ask yourself....every second. We are the same. I am not better than you...you are not better than me.....we are just human beings.....(pretending actually....we are divine light, in reality). Throw the hammer away. Give me some flowers, please. I love you.

I have no doubt that Nelsons findings (which I have know about for years) are probably accurate. However, he does not know how to make an amp transparent. He just likes certain sounds and knows how to make them and then makes the ones people like. Transparency, in all its phases, is much harder to come by. And measurements will only take you so far. In order to know if an amp is transparent you need to do a straight wire bypass test on it (which no one does). You need to put an amp in series with another amp and see if it changes the sound. My friend Sieg was doing this back in the 70s with his wideband solid state amp that beat all amps he ever put it up against for years and years. Every little thing he did to the amp, including all the passive parts, power supples, etc changed the sound of the amp. I got him to bypass his junk binding posts and he was amazed by the difference. It did not measure any different. You cannot get to transparency through numbers alone. All passive parts, all execution, all power supplies, etc. all affect the sound. Many, many high end companies know this and that is why they keep making better stuff. Not because they got the new one to measure better.....they got the new one to sound better because of many small but powerful changes.

Well, there you have it from the horse's mouth: Nelson Pass discussing how different distortion components relate to perceptions of sound quality using SIT devices. Oh, and he discusses how measurements can predict sound quality, using measurements and then confirming with listening.

Brilliant.

Bye bye @ricevs ,

I will reiterate, Nelson Pass was probably just being nice, but it is pretty obvious why he was not interested.  I am done educating you. I regret the education I have already provided. I will accept that apology now though.

Please let’s stop trying to be right and get back on subject. Back to listening impressions about this amp.

What is relevant is up to each person (no one person desides on what is relevant here....that would be arrogance). I think a lot of what Cindyment says is made up.....the stuff about Pass and this amp....he just want to think that way.....he does not know, for sure. That is my opinion......but we must stop all this nonsense.  There are much more beautiful things to say, feel and be.   I think you are all relevant....you are all beautiful. We can agree to disagree....can’t we. Let’s move on.

BTW, the "off the shelf" modules you talk about were listened to and tweaked over a couple year period by various people in the high end community. Check out Mark Shifter’s comments on this (he was one of the main people).  They made it sound the way it does on purpose.....I think they did a very good job.  The measurements were secondary to the listening tests.  And that is just the way it is.  Believe it, or not.  he he...

Well that is interesting, considering that these are essentially variants on the GAn Systems Evaluation boards that Skip Taylor designed for GaN systems, but with some of the flaws fixed and now sold under his company name. Considering those came out about March 2020 and the LSA GaN was done in July 2020, that "couple years" comment is quite suspect.  It does not "sounds" any particular way. The distortion while not state of the art (except for IMD) is below audible levels, so that pretty much puts us at how the output impedance goes up at higher frequencies resulting in speaker dependent objective and subjective differences.

Mark Shifter also said this,

"We believe that GAN FET technology is the holy grail of switching amp design"

... which has about as much relevance to audio and amplifiers as saying "I like blue".

Since you don't appear to have anything relevant or concrete to add to this conversation @ricevs, I will say good bye.

@ricevs , I try to lead you to water, but I cannot make you drink. I don't think you are reading my posts or attempting to understand them, you are just responding in anger. A careful read of my posts will show that I have never once called you names, though you are giving me plenty of reason to do it. I choose not to stoop to your level. Even when provided ample proof that your claims are false, you still make aggressive, inaccurate posts meant to do nothing but denigrate like this one below. You have tried to take this posts about the LSA amp and make it all about you and what you do. I researched the product the OP is using, asked a question to fill in a piece of information I did not have, then analyzed how the two would behave together, and interpreted that based on extensively researched, well understood, and not remotely controversial aspect of subjective preference testing and psycho-acoustic testing. I presented my analysis in detail for others to discuss, refute, agree with, etc.

How about you tell us what is going on with the OPs system?

Its just the facts, as I see it...and read it......and it makes you angry because you HAVE to be right.....so you lash out and call me names. Name calling is usually the last defense of the ego. You don’t need your ego. We are all ready beautiful. You don’t have to defend yourself. There is nothing to defend....the ego is an illusion.....created so we can have some fun. Don’t take it so seriously. Love you. Now I am reallly done.....he he. I will not reply to you again. Have a beautiful life.

how do you ever hope to design products that more than a few people will subjectively like?


 

He doesn't. He doesn't have the knowledge to design a class d amp. He just rides on the coat tails of others.

Pink Doughnuts.

So, what are you guys listening to this evening? I’m listening to vinyl. Right now - Nirvana - "Unplugged in New York". Sounds pretty darn good, and I’m not even really much of a Nirvana fan.

Peace be with you. And you. And you...

Its just the facts, as I see it...and read it......and it makes you angry because you HAVE to be right.....so you lash out and call me names. Name calling is usually the last defense of the ego. You don’t need your ego. We are all ready beautiful. You don’t have to defend yourself. There is nothing to defend....the ego is an illusion.....created so we can have some fun. Don’t take it so seriously. Love you. Now I am reallly done.....he he. I will not reply to you again. Have a beautiful life.

BTW, the "off the shelf" modules you talk about were listened to and tweaked over a couple year period by various people in the high end community. Check out Mark Shifter’s comments on this (he was one of the main people).  They made it sound the way it does on purpose.....I think they did a very good job.  The measurements were secondary to the listening tests.  And that is just the way it is.  Believe it, or not.  he he...

By the way, the research paper you linked shows nothing.  It is not even about .1 versus .00001 distortion static numbers.....which is what Objectivists worship.  It is about adding distortion and clipping on purpose to see how it affects sound.  Come on....you can do better than that.....well, actually not, because there are NO tests about different levels of static measured distortion and sound quality.  If there were, then you guys would be quoted it all the time.

This part of your post is just petty, angry, disrespectful, and inaccurate.

@ricevs, the adult and mature response would be to admit that you are wrong and that we really do know a lot about distortion and how that impacts listening experience.

The is not a "subjective listening forum". It is an audio forum. Those that refuse to learn are destined to repeat mistakes. If you refuse to learn the extensive things we know about sound and how that impacts our subjective listening impression or even to accept that that knowledge exists, then how do you ever hope to design products that more than a few people will subjectively like?

You brought up Nelson pass before. He purposely creates amplifiers that do not accurately reproduce analog waveforms. Not all his amps do this, and not all do that in the same amount. He does this because he has done the work and studied what he can do to his amplifiers to create a better subjective listening experience with a target market. Not everyone likes his amplifiers and you may like one and not another. And because he did the work to find out what people subjectively like and how his amplifier can deliver it, all an "objective" exercise I might add, he is able to charge far more for his amps.

There is nothing "tweaky" or "listened" to w.r.t the LSA. It is off the shelf modules in a box with performance as absolutely dictated by its architecture.

You guys win....no doubt. Certainly measurements mean everything. So, why are you here on a subjective listening forum? eh? Why not just get a 1975 Pioneer receiver (certainly has low distortion numbers) and a pair of Advent speakers and be done with it. Why would you waste all your precious time trying to convince people that they cannot hear.......or that they cannot believe what they hear? Clearly you guys have a motive for being here. Certainly, you will not convince anyone that your are right......nor will I. The people who listen and decide by listening will keep doing it and the people who decide on what components to buy by specs will keep doing it. Long live us all. I am done this this game. Over and out........at least on this nonsense part of this thread.

By the way, the research paper you linked shows nothing.  It is not even about .1 versus .00001 distortion static numbers.....which is what Objectivists worship.  It is about adding distortion and clipping on purpose to see how it affects sound.  Come on....you can do better than that.....well, actually not, because there are NO tests about different levels of static measured distortion and sound quality.  If there were, then you guys would be quoted it all the time.

It will be interesting to see what Timing3435 thinks of the Topping amp versus the Voyager......$350 versus $3000 and better measurements versus tweaky listened to thang. I may buy a Topping myself to use as a back up amp, and of course, mod the crap out of it.

Happy listening.....and happy measuring. It is all good.

@tweak1 

Thanks for the input. Do you know at what freq the 12" crosses over to the concentric tweeter?  Don't know it it gets to beaming.

I asked about the X5 because a 12" mid and a 9" high tweeter crossing around 1.1-1.4kHz is supposed to lobe and mid also beam, and that Deltalite has been praised in other forum. But then again I can't hear lobbing with that same tweeter and my 8"s in MTM  xo at 1.8kHz even though it's supposed to be lobbing...so better to ask for first hand experience. 

If you are not willing to put in the effort to learn what is common knowledge to so many others in what appears to be your chosen field of business there is little I can do.
 

It's not in his financial interest to admit what others have proven in numerous studies. People who have swallowed the koolaid aren't interested in the truth, it's a faith based belief system.

@lewinskih01 

I know you didn't ask me, but I have Emerald Physics 3.4s (12" midbass with 1" concentric polyester tweeter) with my Voyager. I can tell you it came with CRAP jumpers to the outboard XOs. By itself, replacing them was HUGE. Also until I got the longer and superior jumpers I had to put the XOs on the base. Man that thing vibrates like crazy, and yet I've seen plenty of for sale ads where the owner is using the crap jumpers and has the XO resting on the base. Go figure

No, you have not proven anything. Again, if you lower the 20K via an equalizer -2db like I suggested it essentially would mimic the response with a 3 ohm load using the LSA.....please do this and tell us you hear a noticeable difference.

Actually, Nelson’s amps with tweaks would be even more universally loved. A lot of people find them too warm, slightly un dynamic, and rolled off. A friend just sold his XA250 for this reason. This can all be easily fixed via parts and execution. No, I don’t mod heavy amps.

The only common knowledge in audio is that over time enough people have listened to a component that it has a "noted history" of sounding a certain way. My friend used to say...."it all comes out in the wash". There IS NO COMMON knowledge about distortion numbers meaning something in sound.....because there are no tests that prove it....only hand waving from bench testers.

I know that is the goal of at least 1/2 dozen of them. They have an ax to grind with LSA or Wally.

I had an interest in the Voyager amp in the title post but reading through what is here is such a waste of time and so unpleasant.  This site seems to be going to hell in a hurry.  Perhaps it is what some of these awful posters would like to see happen.

@ricevs you make @kuribo blood boil YOU, YOU CHARLATAN.

@ricevs 

 Electronics practically all measure flat in frequency response.  Even with frequency response:  Have you ever had a 20 band equalizer with a 20K setting and moved it down -2db?  Do you think you can hear that?  Most of us here do not hear above 14K.  Of course, if you did 1K we would hear that quite a bit. 

Your statement above shows that you have spent 0 effort trying to understand how the LSA amp would behave with a real load, and especially with the ops speakers. Instead you insist on grasping onto things like solder or connectors, or ... and no they have not wasted time on a double blind test, because that is just what it would be, a waste. I think if you search long and hard, though you may find one on capacitors in a cross-over, but the result will not be to your liking.

I have explained, in excruciating detail, how electronics, in this specific case, will absolutely effect listening impressions. I have brought you to the water, but I cannot make you drink.

I believe Nelson Pass was just being polite. Anything he has put down to paper (i.e. on the record) has been backed up by actual data, i.e. he tackled the potential for frequency response variance with cables. He has never, to my knowledge, given credence to "tweaks", but he understands his customer base, so he knows not to put them down either. It would not be good for business.

In terms of how distortion contributes to perceptions of sound, this is just every day common knowledge now (or should be if you are claiming to be an amp expert) including what we perceive as pleasant, unpleasant, how it may impact loudness impression, masking functions, etc. As always Google.

Since this has gone into so many tangents...here's another one

Jaymark: how does the X5 midrange sound?

I'm into OB too, although DIY, and have the same Beyma AMT and wonder how those Deltalite 2512 mids sound and your experience with potential beaming from a 12" mid. Love the high sensitivity midranges. Never heard a 12" though (have 8").

Cheers!

I have heard of those researchers and read much of what they did.  Again....none of them proved by double blind testing that electronics (or passive parts or execution) sound different because of distortion measurements.   Electronics practically all measure flat in frequency response.  Even with frequency response:  Have you ever had a 20 band equalizer with a 20K setting and moved it down -2db?  Do you think you can hear that?  Most of us here do not hear above 14K.  Of course, if you did 1K we would hear that quite a bit.  I am sure that different kinds of measured distortion are audible....like more odd harmonics or whatever.  However, there has never been a double blind test that shows this.....or any other test on distorion measurements....please find one.  Until they do these tests.....it is all just the subjective opinion of the person doing the change that we here about.  Nelson Pass says he hears a difference.  I believe him.  However, he has no proof. 

By the way, Nelson Pass told me that he believes that "What I do works, but he has no interest in it."  He likes playing with ciruits and transistors.  He does not want to go down the rabbit hole of infinite tweaking.  This was a response from him....after I told him I could come to his factory and help him tweak his components.  This tweak game is time consuming.  He makes plenty of money making products the way he does and is very happy.  No problem.....we all have different desires.

Speakers are another story.....the frequency response, polar patterns, waterfall plots, impulse response, time alignment and distortion....all all quite gross and audible....and easily noticed on blind studies.  We are talking electronics here.  Please show me the study that shows how distortion numbers correlate to sound.  

I'll chime in here with a long post (and I hate long posts).  At one point starting over 20 years back for about a 6 year period I had a friend who worked in a high end audio store and during that time, I did most of the set-ups and installs with him (to get them done quicker and we could either go back to the store while it was closed and do comparisons that most would not be able to do or head out for beer and appetizers).  I heard many things which I set-up in different rooms and with different electronics, including things which I owned.  I've heard things I've owned (both electronics and speakers) that sounded better and worse (I'd say more worse since I had the benefit of the experience in positioning and setting up things).  I heard a pair of speakers that I owned once that sounded so bad in the roof I couldn't stand to be in there.  I've also heard amplifiers I've owned set-up with other things that just didn't sound as good.  So the point is to evaluate something, there are different ways of using those things as the same components measure the same (and some of the 2-channel systems 20+ years back had over $150,000 of stuff in it at retail. And by the way, there were very expensive amplifiers that on occasion had something that was not soldered correctly.  A sample of one or two of anything is not very scientific to come to the conclusion it sucks (and one of the amplifiers were sold in monoblocks at $20k retail).

I do own a one third octave RTA (Audio Control) for many years,  I also have the Audio Tools App with the Dayton Audio IMM-6 mic and REW on PCs and a Dayton Audio UMM-6 mic.  My philosphy is to mitigate the bad room issues (via treatments and placement) and not have the room look like a recording studio since I have to live in it.  In a perfect world (and with more funds and anyone is free to contribute towards my goal😀) would be to have two more rooms, one optimized for 2-channel and one for HT.

Many moons back Mark Waldrep of AIX showed up at a Capital Audiofest I attended.  I bought a Blu-Ray with hi-rez audio content and since it was quiet when I went, I got almost a 20 minute spiel on DSD measurements and the audible noise.  I politely listened and since I like his recordings all I had to say was that as a consumer I have no control as to what a record label chooses to release in SACD or DVD-A and can only buy what's available.  I didn't have the heart to tell him that the Meitner MA-1 DAC I had at the time upsamples everything to 2 times DSD (no user adjustments are possible) and pushed all the measurements he was referring to outside of the range where my dog couldn't hear it.  The point being that an amplifier or any other thing in the listening chain needs to be considered, which brings me to the point of my system and how it is used and that everyone using the LSA may not get identical results (and some of course may find high frequencies better or worse in their systems in their rooms).

I'd also like to say that I've had several others over my house who would agree that how I'm using the equipment I have sounds best in my set-up.  I use a Lumin U1 music server which reads files from my NAS in another room.  The U1 is connectoed to my EMM Labs DAC 2X (Version 2) via a USB cable (and I'm not going to go into those details as this thread already has cases of cans of worms)  and has Leedh (you can Google it - the post is long enough without it) volume processing built into it.  The DAC 2X gets output into my Modwright LS 36.5DM preamp and that goes into the LSA amp.

The DAC 2X upsamples everything (no user controls) to 8 times DSD.  When the Leedh volume processing is used, it can't do DSD volume control in the digital domain so single rate or double rate DSD files show up on the Lumin App as 352.8kHz and then the DAC upsamples that to 8 times DSD.  So that's as simple as I can make it. 

If moved the LSA amp to mysecondary back-up audio system (which I don't intend to do), I'd be listening to a Sherbourn preamp, a small fanless PC running JRiver (also for fun I have an Oppo 103D, which also can read files from the NAS hooked into a modded Carver C-9 Sonic Hologram generator via analog in and outs going into the preamp) going into a Teac UD-503 DAC. I have Selah Audio SA-2s (stand mount 2 way with a Fountek ribbon tweeter) and a Rel Strata III sub for speakers (along with the EVS 1200 amp.  The room is a smallish bedroom (I do have it treated) and with different equipment and the room, I might hear different things in the high frequencies with the EVS 1200 amp vs. the LSA amp than I hear in the main system.  Both amps would measure the same before and after I swapped them between rooms.  That does not mean I would hear identical differences in high frequencies in each room or any thing else.

One of the songs I used in my amp comparisons is 'Fistful of Swoon' by Vandaveer.  I've seen them live over a half dozen times (at my favorite music venue which closed over 4 years ago - the Iota Club and Cafe in Arlington, VA) and heard them do the song (just acoustic guitar live) at least a few times.  I've owned 5 amps (3 class Ds and 2 Class A/ABs) during the time I've had the recording.  I can tell you that the spacing between Mark Charles Heidinger and Rose Guerin on the soundstage was the most realistic on the LSA (it was uncanny).  I've also heard the cut on many other systems both people I know where I've brought it over or at an audio show (although of course I'm not as familiar with those as my own system) and I've not heard it in the same way (of course at audio shows the really expensive systems are usually in larger rooms with more people and often they don't have the time to do requests the way a smaller room would with a dozen or so seats and I'd imagine it would be better on those megabuck systems).

@ricevs ,

I don't mind aggression in a technical discussion, but you are just making up conclusions that stating things that show you don't know nearly as much as you think you know:

Again, I politely ask you......Show me the double blind studies that show a measurement of electronics can be shown to correlate with subjective sound.  You cannot....because they don't exist.  Your whole world is based on a belief structure that has no support.......it is like you are on a limb and sawing.....have a great flight!

Floyd Toole, Stanley Lipshitz, James Johnson and a whole host of other people you have not heard of have spent their whole lives researching, often using blind testing, the impacts of audio reproduction and how that impact how we perceive sound. It is how we know about things like in-room response preferences, the important of flat on axis response, how we are more or less sensitive to some types of distortion, about masking functions w.r.t. frequency response, about limits of human hearing, about masking of quiet sounds by loud sounds, about audibility of jitter in digital playback, about perceptual impressions of noise, etc.  And everything I have just listed in affected by the electronics.

Assuming that the OP experiences an audible difference with the LSA amp and it is not just bias, and I am very much inclined to believe that he is experiencing it, it won't be explained by solder, or silver versus copper wire, or binding posts, or AC outlets, or power cords, it will be explained by real and significant differences. Those differences won't be explained in platitudes from audio reviews either. They will be explained by cold, hard science. The measurements on ASR of the LSA amp, and taking into account the impedance of the Revel speakers, and what we know, from extensive scientific exploration of audio, is what will explain it.

We know from Toole's/Harman's extensive work on preference curves that people prefer something close to a in-room response that declines in output slowly from the mid-bass to the high frequencies. We know that excessive high frequencies make the sound harsh/bright, that they mask detail in the mid-range. We know that tubes amplifiers almost as a rule have lower damping factor that gets worse as frequencies go up, and that this will cause high frequencies to reduce in amplitude especially with a speaker like the Revel. Reducing the highs can remove an impression of harshness, especially in rooms that are highly reflecting, and that removes the masking function on the mid-range, allowing the mid-range to appear smoother. We know that Class-D amps have high damping especially in the bass, and that generally contributes to tighter bass compared to tube amps. Tube amps can have higher IMD which will impact mid-range / high frequency detail. The op stated that the LSA was like the best of all worlds, tube and Class-D/SS.

I previously stated the characteristics of the Revel. The LSA has some defining properties. It has reducing damping factor at high frequencies. With speakers like the Revel, this will result in a fairly significant (1.5-2db) and audible reduction in high frequencies. The LSA like other Class-D has great damping factor at bass frequencies which will contribute to tight strong bass. The reduction of the highs will both reduce perceive harshness, and will reduce the masking by high frequencies allowing the midrange come across clearer. In addition, the LSA has very low IMD, which will further improve clarity in the midrange. No magic unproven hypothesis about minor components, just significant and real differences, yes explained by frequency response, damping factor and distortion.

I will further add that frequency response will have by far the largest impact on imaging / soundstage, so an amplifiers interaction with a speaker, if it impacts frequency response is going to be by far the biggest contribution in the electronics chain to imaging/sound stage. Again, not solder, connectors, some wire in the amp, AC sockets, power cords, etc.

Chris your Crusade is getting very boorish.

What I have said is don't give your money to charlatans who make claims without a shred of evidence, who like to tell everyone what sounds best, and who continue to preach and pontificate a religion while denigrating science. No one likes a parasite.

I have never said don’t listen as obviously that is what these devices are made for. What I have said is don’t give your money to charlatans who make claims without a shred of evidence, who like to tell everyone what sounds best, and who continue to preach and pontificate a religion while denigrating science. No one likes a parasite.

You want studies? Read Geddes, Hawsford, Otala, etc. You are the one making the claims, the burden is on you to provide evidence. But, you can't.

And I see you failed to answer my question- what is the physical mechanism that causes passive components to alter the input signal to such a degree that it is audible to the human ear?

@timing3435 taking his measurements on his state of the art gear.

Yo baby!  Top of the morning to ya!  What a great measuring amp (PA5)......I cannot wait for someone to send me one to mod.......he he.  It's amazing what the Chinese are doing with their cheap DACs, preamps and amps these days......simply amazing.

The Topping PA5 was almost as good as the  Benchmark AHB2 measurement-wise.  He liked the sound also of the PA5. Ha!

I call BS.....show us the studies....you cannot.

We all speak for a poplulation of 1.......this is what this game is.  Every man for himself.......praise be those that actually listen for themselves and make up their own mind.

When you listen to parts and execution and swap them......it will be established....in your mind......that they sound different.  YOU HAVE TO LISTEN.   If you are not willing to listen then you will never learn ANYTHING about sound.

I have told this TRUE story before.......but it is a good one that illustrates the problem.  There was this guy who believed that amps sounded different but that wires did not.  He had just met a person new to audio and had told him of his opinions.  These two were invited over to another audiophiles house that had modified Soundlab electrostats....along with another person (4 people total).  When they were there they wanted to do a comparison of two different interconnect cables.......once this started the "non believer" went into the kitchen and stayed until the shootout was over......he could hear their comments while in the kitchen.  All three of them (including the newby) all heard significant differences between these two interconnect cables.  Then he comes back in the room and says nothing.  If he had stayed in the room while they listened and they turn to him and say "well, did you hear what we all heard?"  what could he say?  If he says yes, then he would have been "WRONG" all those years.....not good for the ego.  If he said, he did not hear any differences....then the other 3 would think he cannot hear and he would never get invited to anything again.....also not good for the ego.  So, he got to keep his ego intact by putting his head in the sand.  So, the question is.......Is your head in the sand?  I would think its pretty dark and dim in there.  Not much fun.....although you can put down others who listen instead of hide.  

Not listening and thinking you know something about sound....well......its pretty stupid.  Why don't you keep your eyes closed and then you will know everything about how things look.....right? or wrong?  How about not touching things and thinking you know how things feel?  We could go on and on.  

If you want to worship measurements over sound qualtiy (as heard by the ear)....then fine.  But to think this is what most here do?  This is stupid.  The measurement worshipers are a few very vocal people trying to save us from all those that listen.

Now, we have said the same thing over and over again....haven't we?  Shall we keep dancing?  I think I will choose another partner.  Has been lovely........love yourself and everyone.  I love you.

@jaymark .  Hope you enjoy the X5's. They do need a break-iin. But  man i do love them.  I have some absorption panels in the back of them as suggested by Clat\yton. 

I bought a Topping PA5 that just got measured by ASR - almost as good as it gets measurement-wise..Will A/B test against the  LSA Voyager.

Studies are out there. Do your own homework.

You speak for a population of 1 with your subjective "impressions". They have no validity for anyone else.

We have not invented a measurement tool that can tell us why parts, wires, brands of solder, etc. to infinity and execution make different sound. 
 

Because it has never been established that they do.

More facts, substance, less religion.

@kuribo I will say you are not giving your Crusade up against Modifiers and LSA.

@kuribo there you are Chris. Thought maybe a Samurai got you with his Katana sword. Not the motorcycle.

More     "We can measure the objective performance and studies have shown correlation with those measurements with subjective opinions of "quality".

Again, I politely ask you......Show me the double blind studies that show a measurement of electronics can be shown to correlate with subjective sound.  You cannot....because they don't exist.  Your whole world is based on a belief structure that has no support.......it is like you are on a limb and sawing.....have a great flight!

We have not invented a measurement tool that can tell us why parts, wires, brands of solder, etc. to infinity and execution make different sound.  Of course, these are physical properties.  Our measurement tools are very crude compared with our ears ability to hear.   This is a fact....one that objectivists just cannot get their minds around.  They think our measurement gear is made by God and it is infallible.  Just keep sawing.....only gets more fun when you fall.

More "I won't listen, but trust me"......Praise the distortion measurement machine (their God).

God is Love.....not a machine.  The music that great machines can make (a great stereo) can move us to feel this God of Love....this God of Joy......I wish you all that feeling.