You are using a mat on the acrylic platter? What phono stage are you using with the VPI?
LOOKING TO MAKE A TURNTABLE CHANGE, HOPEFULLY AN IMPROVEMENT
I started with a VPI Scout, and then upgraded to a VPI Scoutmaster. I find the sound of my CD collection to be superior. Vinyl advocates insist that I am missing the boat and claim vinyl delivers the sonic goods.
I was advised that the acrylic platter that came with my Scoutmaster was the reason the sound was not up to par.
The cost to upgrade the Scoutmasster with a steel platter and bearing is $1000.00. Not looking
to spend any more money with VPI. Not knocking their products, just have spent much money with them with
less than expected results. Assuming I wish to listen to my 180-200 gram vinyl recordings I am looking for
alternatives. I wish to stay loyal to my audio dealer who is always there to help me. He sells Project, VPI and
Thorens. I would sell my Scoutmaster which should net me about $1000.00, and I would put $1500.00 of my own
money toward a new turntable. Any thoughts? Thank you in advance. Note: I am sure VPI makes a wonderful
product, but I have not perfsonally had a great audio experience.
I was advised that the acrylic platter that came with my Scoutmaster was the reason the sound was not up to par.
The cost to upgrade the Scoutmasster with a steel platter and bearing is $1000.00. Not looking
to spend any more money with VPI. Not knocking their products, just have spent much money with them with
less than expected results. Assuming I wish to listen to my 180-200 gram vinyl recordings I am looking for
alternatives. I wish to stay loyal to my audio dealer who is always there to help me. He sells Project, VPI and
Thorens. I would sell my Scoutmaster which should net me about $1000.00, and I would put $1500.00 of my own
money toward a new turntable. Any thoughts? Thank you in advance. Note: I am sure VPI makes a wonderful
product, but I have not perfsonally had a great audio experience.
60 responses Add your response
I had a 1.1 Scout for 3 years. It was a great entry level turntable for me, but I felt the need to move on. After a lot of research, I settled on George Merrill's Super12 Polytable with the 12-inch Jelco and speed control device. I am VERY pleased with my choice. George is wonderful to deal with and always available for recommendations and advice. I recommend giving him a call. The stock Poly is about $1800. The Super is $3000 (with oil bath motor, speed control and longer Jelco arm). There is one for sale on Audiogon with a 10 inch arm and the speed control box for $1895. A great deal. |
No doubt lots of people will have lots of firmly-held opinions... but maybe we should start with what you found deficient, and what you’re looking for. Also, have you listened to other decks — have you heard a TT-based system that really does it for you, for us to have as a reference (no matter how expensive)? |
Something from Rega, Music Hall, ClearAudio or Avid would be worth checking out. I heard about a new Avid turntable... http://www.avidhifi.com/turntable_ingenium.htm |
I don't think the acrylic platter of the Scoutmaster is the issue, I actually prefer it over the aluminum platters and that table is probably VPIs best bang for the buck table that they have offered, with that said it sounds like you just fall into the digital camp and should just embrace that. I am of the other mind and use my digital as background and non critical listening but for those late night listening sessions only analog will satisfy me no matter what I spend on my digital front end. It would be interesting to know the rest of your system. |
I doubt that those other brands that your dealer sells would be an upgrade to your VPI. You might want to checkout the new Technics SL-1200GR. It is a set it and forget it table and is under your budget. This dealer has a return policy in case you don’t like it! Sometimes you just can't stick with a dealer if he does not have another brand that you might want! http://hifiheaven.net/shop/Technics/Technics-SL-1200GR-Grand-Class-Direct-Drive-Turntable-System?gcl... |
Cartridge, phono stage (and settings) and arm set up (azimuth, VTA, VTF, cantilever alignment, overhang) all matter greatly with VPI table and arms. I have an Aries 2 with JMW 10.5 arm and run a Lyra Delos into a Manley Steelhead. I was using the VPI alignment gauge until I got a Mint Protractor, which improved separation and clarity considerably. My hunch is that you can squeeze quite a bit more performance from your VPI rig with regard to some of these variables. Please let us know what cartridge(s) and phono pre you are using along with the settings and alignment protractor used. Maybe we can help there. My second table is a Technics SL1200GR and I use it for MM and MI carts. I enjoy it as much as the VPI, even more in some cases for dynamic rock albums from the 70s and 80s with vintage Shure, Stanton and Pickering carts from that era. |
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IMO, there's one way to do this - Have your dealer give you a real demo and then you will know whether upgrading your table will make a difference to what you hear. You will or you won't. You are approaching this as if something is wrong because you think your digital sounds better than vinyl, which is an incorrect premise, IMO. There may well be something wrong with your turntable that is causing a sonic issue, but if not, a VPI, decently set up should be sounding very, very good at minimum. I used to have a Music Hall MMF5 turntable that cost me about $700 that sounded very good even compared to my 10k digital player. So set up a demo and let your dealer show you why you should or shouldn't upgrade your turntable. |
I agree with the majority of the posts- the acrylic platter is NOT what is holding you back - the Scoutmaster is a good table and arm. NO reason to go with the s/s version platter- spend the money on the outer ring clamp and you WILL get better performance. Upgrade the cartridge ( depending on what you have) and have someone that knows what they are doing set it up for you properly and you will be suitably impressed with vinyl. Phono cable and loading of the Thor will also be areas to look into for better performance. Good Luck! |
Have you thought about going the Garrard 301-401 / Thorns rim drive tables and get a custom plinth made and arm installed. I did this a couple years ago went from an oracle delphi mk4 to a Garrard 301 set up and never been happier. there is much room for upgrading this set up as well. Your should be able to get started with in your budget and upgrade from there. |
@glennewdick +1 You can get a 401 and a base with a Jelco tonearm which would be a huge improvement, then upgrade to a great arm like Graham, Triplanar, Kuzma, EMT etc for another huge improvement. My Garrard 301 was one of the best changes I made to my system, although upgrading a Rega tonearm to a Basis Vector tonearm was a close second. |
Between your dealer’s VPI, Project, and Thorens, sticking with that Scoutmaster is really the best choice. Sound like you’ve perhaps got a bad mechanical/electrical mismatch somewhere in the chain, or a significant cartridge/arm setup issue, or maybe the cartridge itself isn’t up to snuff. I got into vinyl 11 years ago with a used SOTA Star, Fidelity Reasearch arm, used Dynavector P75 phono stage, and new Benz Glider L2 cartridge for 3200 bucks total outlay - and it annihilated the digital options in that price range, at that time (killed my Meridian G08). This should still mostly be the case, if you get good matches & alignments, and a good enough cartridge. I have a buddy running a Scoutmaster with 3D arm, Ortofon Jubilee, Rogue Ares, and he prefers it to the PS Audio DirectStream DAC. |
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In my opinion.... VPI "feet" are not very effective. The tweak of choice seems to be placing VPI tables on Stillpoint cones or Bear Claws. The differences are obvious and positive. My suggestion is to try this tweak before spending money on major upgrades or a different table. Rest the table on cones alone. Adjust the height of the motor on Vibrapod pucks or a paperback book or a paperback book on Vibrapod pucks, if necessary. If the tweak works for you, remove the VPI feet completely to improve the table even more improvement. Might also experiment with placing the table on cones facing up with a maple butcher block under the cones on top of your current shelf. Just my opinion. |
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@stereo5 What is more important 87 posts or 55 years? In reality, I’ve forgotten more about analog than you’ve learned. You really make me laugh. |
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My experience is that if you want great sound from LP's, you have to drop some serious cash to get there. I started with the Rega Rp6 with the Exact 2 cartridge, Pass Labs XP15 phonostage (Solid State) and Conrad Johnson ET5 preamp (tube) and Conrad Johnson monoblocks. I couldn't believe how bad the sound was, so I checked with my dealer. He basically said that I needed to spend a lot more; thousands more, or get out of the record business. I ended up getting a Rega RP10 with the Apheta 2 cartridge and a Clear Audio Smart Matrix Pro record cleaning machine. I think the record cleaning machine had as much to do with the sound improvement as the RP10. But, now I am happy. Everything sounds great, and good recordings on LP sound way better than good recordings on the Oppo Modwright 105 CD player (which sounds pretty good on its own). Happy listening. |
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kjl, my experience is this: Digital quality is very good. But to obtain something better via vinyl will take vast amounts of money. To have good vinyl you need (1) near perfect speed rotation - easier said than done (2) freedom from vibration - easier said than done (3) a quality tonearm - easy to do but very expensive (4) a good quality MC cartridge - very expensive (5) a good quality phonostage - again expensive. One of my two vinyl rigs excels my digital system but frankly it is not the most insightful use of money. |
+1 for George Merrill's Super12 PolyTable. George's PolyTable designs reap the benefits of his Merrill-Wiliams 101.3 Turntable. Check it out on: http://hifigem.com/ |
