Mitch2,
Thanks for passing along this wire information. I'm not an engineer, but a musician who left that trade a long time ago to pursue a different profession. My wife is a classical guitarist who also left that profession to pursue another profession. I think we both have good ears and like most musicians we are extremely familiar with a plethora of instruments and how they sound in a variety of venues live, both on stage and in the audience; but I have a bone to pick, or quibble if you will. You state: "Regarding the price, of course it is a tremendous bargain. More will probably try it because of the low entry price. However, I suspect many here are listening in more absolute terms and will end up with whatever wire they enjoy most, regardles of which is lower priced. My WE wires continue to remain in my main system, at least for now."
To my mind in my "absolute world" yes, I will end up using whatever wire I enjoy the most regardless of price. That does not mean however, that the wire I use will be based on some "cable savvy audiophiles" opinion. The view that ETP copper is "clearly inferior" for "audio/sonic" purposes" to other types of copper you mentioned is clearly inferior thinking on the part of those authors. The proof is always in the taste of the pudding, not the measurement or ingredients in it. It either tastes good, better, best, or worse to the subjective taster. Same for sound. It either sounds good, better, best, or worse to the subjective listener. Regardless of measurement or ingredients.
The WE16ga/Belden 8402 sounds more real and musical to me than products made from the stuff you listed above. So, to me in an "audio/sonic" sense they are inferior to me as musician/listener/audiophile. To Yazaki-san, an esteemed engineer/audio designer/builder/mod person who has vast experience with the biggest Japan audio company's as leader, Jeff Day, reviewer/audiophile and many of his colleagues pick WE/Belden over or at least equal to the likes of Sablon/Revive and many other brands of top-notch wires, silver or copper made from your above list.
Audiophiles have bought in with their $$$$$ to many follies. Look around. Ask your audio buddies: how many big $$$$$ mistakes, wrong turns have you taken in this hobby? This WE plays with the big boys. So does the Belden; and let me be clear, there is no "absolute best." |
Brownsfan,
The Modwright Oppo would appear to be a great choice with the Coincident Dynamo/Triumpth combo. You demonstrate with that set-up how you can achieve top-shelf sound for reasonable dollars. Best, Rob |
Well said Rob. I have not a/b'd the various WE wire ga so I don't know the sound difference. I am sure there is as gauge matters and that is why all the cables sold have their own gauge recipe.
All I know is this 16ga makes the best sound I have heard in my home systems over the past 30 years. It makes wonderful signal wire in gear as well as crossover and internal speaker wire. Nothing I have heard is as good. I have used it all from the purest copper to all kinds of silver and solid core, but the WE is the best.
I pulled out very, very expensive Jupiter solid core silver & gold wire that Chris sold me special preferring the WE wire. I thought the Jupiter silver/gold was wonderful, but in the preamp the WE is better.
Jeff Day's blog was just updated with him sharing how this wire is now inside his speaker etc... And his comments mirror my experience 100%.
I will report back on the WE ICs made with 16ga as I am making them this week. I imagine they will sound great as all the gear I have uses the same wire as input and output signal wire internally.
Looking at the materials used there is no way this stuff should sound this wonderful and resolving. I am still shaking my head.
I have also found the $25 Green Cactus capacitors are every bit as musical as the caps we all spend $100's on. The last 6 months have been a wonderful learning experience and have thickened my wallet. |
Grannyring,
You truly nail it according to my experience. I'm going to follow Yazaki-san to the letter as well as your footsteps, will wire-up most of the items I have with the WE16ga, install the Arizona Green Cactus capacitors and Ohmite Brown Devil resistors where appropriate. To me Yazaki-san is one of the few folks you must listen to when he talks about audio issues; he has made a lot of folks happy with his recommendation, even jaded old audiophiles. Best, Rob |
Grannyring, the WE 16ga ICs I built are still changing. For a few days the highs were kind of sizzling and brittle and tonight the overall sound has turned dull. So these things are needing over 175 hours and who knows how much more to settle in. Jet |
Wow Jet! I am still debating if I should shield them. I do have some Belden tinned copper braided shield. Don't want them to sound closed in at all.
Interesting that they still keep changing! |
Bill (Brownsfan)
Your wife's "who's playing the piano" says all that needs to be said. So innocent, yet so telling.
Charles, |
Charles, Yep! Piano is so hard to get right. She heard 26 years worth of LvB sonatas without ever having been fooled. Is it live, or is it Coincident? |
Jetrxpro
Interesting you say that I find the WE wire has strange settling in more than any other wire I have heard?
Rob and Grannyring
As we talked about before this wire could shake many foundations of belief and not just about wire.
Does this mean Silver caps are not better? I only have copper so can not say but many think so...
Why use Silver solder? When wire coated in tin is great? (I can not claim to hearing any solder difference but many can)
Someone mention skin affect being not good with only 25 strands.
Yazaki-san is sending our beliefs for a loop! |
Just took delivery of my 6'8" WE 16g speaker wires.
My first impression on taking them out of the package? "THESE are purportedly going to beat what I have now?!"
They're so small, so narrow, so light... so old. I'd hesitate to hook up a lamp with these.
It'll be interesting to see how this goes. |
Rob and Grannyring where is the capacitors you are talking about. I think I have found the page but which is the correct ones? |
Ok Jet a built a set of WE ICs today. Here is my build. Switchcraft gold RCA connectors. I used one pole of 16g WE for positive and one for negative twisting over the length of the cable. Not a tight twist but a turn every 1.5 - 2 inches.
I then place a tinned copper braided shield with 85% coverage and soldered on both negative ends. The braid is made by Belden. I then placed clear heat shrink over the braid and finally a nice gold colored woven cloth outer jacket.
Burning in on my cheap shop system. |
Rhanson, "All that's golden does not glitter." Giving these a try surely requires slaughtering every sacred cow in sight. Were it not for Rob's endorsement, who I know to share my sonic value system, I would have dismissed all this wire as someones pipe dream. However, since I was in the process of putting together a new system requiring long runs of wire, the attractive price in addition to Rob's endorsement compelled me to give it a try. While my experiment got off to a rough start, with only about 10 hours of burn in, I am very satisfied with this wire and have no doubt it will get better based on Bill's experience with burn in. Even if it gets no better than it is right now, it is a steal at the price. Nothing I have tried at 2x or 3x the price comes close. It will be, as you say, interesting to see how it turns out for you. |
Volleyguy1,
Jetrexpro is speaking about WE16ga as interconnect wire in his latest statement above, not as speaker wire; Jet is bravely conducting a few experiments.
Also, I would like to point out all comments are not created equal. You must separate the "chaff from the wheat" to use a hackneyed, yet true expression. In this hobby your own ears and subjective connection to the music/sonic attribute is what matters.
I am going to stick my neck out and make a bold statement, albeit not the first one to do so: it's about connecting to the music; not the sound. It's about the whole Megillah/enchiladas; not the individual parts. Exhibit A: you're at a classical concert featuring Bach sitting in row M. The concert is great, the players, the Conductor, everything just clicked this evening, Bach was masterfully played a once in a lifetime performance. The concert audience roared their approval with a number of standing ovations. After the concert the music lover, still exhilarated, wax with enthusiasm about the music, the emotion of the performance, how wonderful it was, how the Orchestra and Conductor played their hearts out. Bravo! The music lover's friend, an Audiophile chimes in, yeah, I heard the second violinist chair squeak in Prelude in E flat minor. Do you think we heard enough hall sound and decay of notes? In retrospect I don't think there was good imaging, or separation of instrument, something odd, the music seemed to come at you as a whole piece. I think that is what mono sounded like.
A bit of hyperbole; but I think you know the direction I am headed? |
Volleyguy1
The Green Cactus with the values you need. |
My Capacitors are the Green Cactus C50313-6474K. Best, Rob |
Rob
You have likely heard more live music than most.
I had mentioned on the other thread that live music does not sound separated to me. That is a HiFi term.
Not that this is bad but I think HiFi created a sound on it's own. (little to do with real sound)
I have always agreed with the timbral listening. That is the highest and hardest level.
You need natural tones and the right amount of resonance to make it happen.
The question with wire is the WE wire a better product (and why) or simply adding life to a dead system? (which is not a bad thing)
Or is the wire somehow better?
I like the sound of the vintage Vishay Ero FOL polyester caps for tone. (as good as Duelund or better in the midrange) The problem is they resonate like crazy! They resonate in the mid range which fills out the sound at that freq..
Resonance though gives in the freq it resonates in and takes away elsewhere. Those caps have poor bass and dynamics so become boring to listen to after awhile. |
Since I had the day off I also built a digital cable with the WE wire. I did not wait for burn in and just put it into my system. I have already reported the $45 Belden 8402 was as good as my Sablon Audio $650 cable. They were very close really. The Sablon does have better extension in the highs and more air. The Belden wins for overall musicality and "settle into the music" factor.
But wait because the WE 16ga wire is once again showing the more of it in your system the better the system sounds. Some kind of wonderful cumlitave effect that is even better then just using it as speaker cable.
I used two runs for positive and negative on my digital cable. Yeah, I went crazy and doubled it up for a digital cable! Living large today!
No shield this time. I did twist the positive runs together and did the same with the negative runs. I then twisted the double runs to finish the cable. I put a nice gold colored woven cloth jacket over the cable.
The sound with only 2 hours is just fantastic. The best of both worlds has now come together. The highs are open and extended and the musicality is outstanding. Big, rich and vibrant sounding. I sense the cable still needs to settle down a bit and smooth out. I am sure it will based on past experience.
I am looking forward to putting in the newly built WE16ga IC's now burning in on my shop system. |
Another reviewer's take on the WE 16g speaker wire and Belden interconnects can be found here:
http://positive-feedback.com/high-fidelity/spec-real-sound-processor-rsp-901ex-loudspeaker-filter-2/
Here are his conclusions:
I compared them to my reference cables: Siltech Royal Signature Series Double Crown Empress IC and Tara Labs Omega Onyx speaker cable. It didn't take me much time to realize that my cables offered significantly better performance. Belden and WE could not compete in terms of resolution, selectivity and they also limited frequency range on both ends (treble and bass). There is a slight emphasis on a mid-bass, and it is not equally well defined. What I found interesting about these cables was that they both acted the same way, like they came from the same manufacturer.
So it is not a universal rule that every "vintage" product sound better than those from current production. If I understood Mr Yazaki correctly he did not claim that these were the best cables he knew, but rather that with these two he found sound features he was after. So apart from comparing their sound with the sound of cables from current production, I wanted to find out what it was exactly they offered, that made them one of the kind for Mr Yazaki.
And again—when I asked the right question it didn't take me long to find an answer. Both cables offered amazingly rich, "mature" midrange—so incredibly good that the only comparison I could think of were the best amplifiers with Western Electric 300B triodes on board. Please notice—it is not about THE BEST SOUND in general, but THE BEST SOUND OF THAT KIND. The one that many of us could live with happily ever after. Sound is remarkably palpable, it is presented close to the listener, it is immersively rich. It's been a while since I heard such an incredibly rich sound here. Mr Yazaki wrote about how "organic" his system sounded like with these cables and now I knew what he meant—it was absolutely remarkable. These cables offer a wonderfully coherent presentation with properly balanced proportion between basic sound and harmonics. They are also phase coherent which results in fantastic spacing effects. Both IC and speaker cable are remarkable, not the best ones there are, but the only ones of their kind. |
Agree 100% with this reviewer ..... well said. For me these are far and away the best and certainly one of the very best cables available with personal preference always in play. Just amazing stuff for under $1.50 per foot.
Wonder if the reviewer doubled up on the runs as I found that helped the bass wonderfully. In terms of highs, I have never liked a cable that is too extended. Just too much of a good thing for my ears which are particularly sensitive to upper mids and treble. For the first time in my life my music is glare free for me. My ears heard glare with every other cable I have owned no matter what gear I have had. However the WE and Belden wire removed it. Oh my what a blessing for these ears. That is why they are the best to me. Zero glare combined with all the frequency extremes I hear in live unamplified music.
As Rob has said, some folks have different sonic priorities wanting highs that reach the sky etc....I no longer do as I found that type of sound to be aphile awarded, but in the end just sonically impressive, but musically blunted. |
Grannyring, Great to hear that you are having success with the WE 6ga interconnects and digital cable. I cant wait to hear more about your journey as you put more hours on these WE cables.
With about 200 hours my WE16ga Interconnects are regaining that hi frequency clarity that I heard at 150 hours. I have also been trying the belden again and are liking their sound as well. They both have good synergy with the 16ga WE speaker cable. Not going to draw any firm conclusions about any of this at this point since the WE IC's could still be changing.
Salectric, thanks for sending that article. I understand the conclusion he draws. Last night I tried returning the Kondo IC's to its rightful owner but he said just hold on to them...this is great news since they do offer a reference point for a very balanced sonic perspective. |
Jet, I can relate to your experience with the Kondo interconnect. In my case, my normal cable for phono-to-linestage is an Ocellia Silver Reference. I have compared it many times to several cables that use Belsen 8402 that are wired up with all sorts of RCA plugs some with the ground shield connected and some not. The Ocellia is superior in many ways including inner detail, smoothness in tonal balance, extension in the frequency extremes, and size of soundstage. BUT the best of the Beldens has such a lively, dynamic sound that it ends up being more fun to listen to. I would not want to be without either one since I can swap one or the other in depending on my mood.
I am withholding comments on the WE 16g wires since my wires were not fully broken in when I tried them a while back. I have a set of WE 16g wires breaking in on my video system so I should be able to try them again soon. I am hoping they may find a home as the internal wiring for my high-efficiency speakers, but in order to do that they will need to displace the 12g silver-coated copper Mil-Spec wires that I am using now. The 12g Mil-Spec has beaten all others so far including Neotech silver and Neotech copper. |
It is so annoying that a week ago Phduncanson and I were so taken with the amazing sound of my WE16 interconnects. The mids and lows were so rich clean and involving and then soon after they retreat into a shell and are at this point refusing to come back out. This is a journey indeed. I'm not a happy camper. I have some of that 22gauge solid core WE wire coming from tajacobs...just to complicate matters :) |
Good review. As I read it, I thought of the analogy with video. I have movies that I have watched dozens of times, but not one of those has any special effects. They are great stories with great acting. Special effects are nice for a one off watch.
With audio, and you see this through so many posts, many of us are trying to get to the heart and soul of the music. What real benefit is imaging that goes way beyond anything I hear in live music? No, its about timbre and PRAT for me.
My living room has a very lively acoustic. If the WEs have a bit of a rolled off top end, it is not manifesting itself in this room. As for low frequency, well, I'm using monitors anyway, so no wire is going to deliver a 25 Hz C. The belden IC went in yesterday. Once all of this settles in and gets a couple weeks of playing time, I will bring a decent source downstairs and see what I really have.
Wonder if some of the uber expensive cable makers are getting a little nervous? |
In many respects I agree with the Positive Feedback Review by Wojciech Pacuła of the WE16ga and Belden 8402. The important part for me was this thought: "And again—when I asked the right question it didn't take me long to find an answer. Both cables offered amazingly rich, "mature" midrange—so incredibly good that the only comparison I could think of were the best amplifiers with Western Electric 300B triodes on board. Please notice—it is not about THE BEST SOUND in general, but THE BEST SOUND OF THAT KIND. The one that many of us could live with happily ever after. Sound is remarkably palpable, it is presented close to the listener, it is immersively rich. It's been a while since I heard such an incredibly rich sound here. Mr Yazaki wrote about how "organic" his system sounded like with these cables and now I knew what he meant—it was absolutely remarkable. These cables offer a wonderfully coherent presentation with properly balanced proportion between basic sound and harmonics. They are also phase coherent which results in fantastic spacing effects. Both IC and speaker cable are remarkable, not the best ones there are, but the only ones of their kind."
Then I paused, laughed my evil laugh, couldn't stop for several minutes. When I came to my senses I was struck with this thought: this article sums up perfectly, in my opinion, precisely where the audiophile world has gone off the rails. The descriptors of Yazaki-san style of listening is my own, Jeff Day fellow Positive Feedback Reviewer, describe it as "Timbral Listening", his preferred listening style as well; and I would propose that this style of listening is legion, but not well served by the Audiophile world that places undo emphasis on "sound" rather than serving the "music." The further emphasis on "extended" highs to the ninth degree, or "bass" as described by Audiophile Reviewers is not real bass to me and I am a bass player (much too little space or time here to fully expound my view on this matter).
Then I laugh some more at audiophile values, geez: "I compared them to my reference cables: Siltech Royal Signature Series Double Crown Empress IC and Tara Labs Omega Onyx speaker cable." Holy cow, sound I do not prefer, that cost multiple thousands up against a type of sound that I prefer (300B), that cost less than Two Hundred Dollars for the "BEST SOUND OF THAT KIND." More brick and mortar audio stores would still exist if there was more "best sound of that kind" at WE/Belden cost. It would be "back to the future" where nearly every home had a decent audio system, students would still have those nice dorm-room smaller system with good music/sound. Best, Rob |
All,
Great points and discussions. With Brownsfan with Timbre and PRAT, etc. |
Salectric, thanks for sharing. The PF article is an interesting read and Mr. Pacula's take on the WE wire pretty much nails it with regard to what I hear in my system, as I have attempted to describe previously in this thread; a little warmer with a little less (excessive) bloom in the bass, and a little more up front with vocals. Maybe a little wider and deeper soundstage. Tonal quality is very good. High frequencies sound quite natural. The bass I am hearing is full and has good punch. a little tonally warmer than the Jupiter, which sounds good tonight but makes me wonder whether the tinning is causing a sort of euphonic warmth focused on the midrange where they provide a nice tonality, but also good-sounding in the LF or bass, where they have good body but without the bloat some cables allow. In the high frequencies, I find them a touch shelved-down, and maybe even rolled-off, but primarily shelved-down, meaning the HF, while fully present, seems to have lower output compared to the lower frequencies. This sound recalls earlier days when our speakers had large drivers and our systems were musical but not so detailed. the WE wire has a tonally rich, somewhat relaxed sound with really nice full bass. IMO, it is a musical contrast to some of the ultra resolving wires out there Mr. Pacula closes by stating Both IC and speaker cable are remarkable, not the best ones there are, but the only ones of their kind. which I find similar to my statement it is nice to be reminded that perfection is not a prerequisite for enjoyment I initially did not agree with Mr. Pacula's take on the bass from the WE wire, which he described as having "limited frequency range on both ends (treble and bass)" That caused me to reevaluate why I like the bass from the WE wire so much in my system, and why my other wires comparatively cause "excessive bloom" on some material. It may be that, since my HT wires are known for extended bass, those wires overly drive the very low frequencies of my Aerial 9's, which are rated down to about 30Hz and about -6dB at 27Hz. It is also likely that I have not noticed an absence in low bass extension because, in my system, the lowest frequencies are handled by an Aerial SW12 sub. The sub is wired directly to my preamp using ICs, so it would not be affected by the WE SCs. Therefore, if the WE wires do have a slightly "limited frequency range" in the bass, that characteristic may result in the quality of low bass from my system being actually better overall through the WE wires because they limit the very low frequencies to the main speakers and allow the sub to handle them. As final thought, it is unfortunate all of you do not have cable conditioning equipment since IME that can greatly reduce the time required before you hear the full capabilities of a cable. |
Salectric,
Another thank you. |
Salectric,
I read that article over at "High Fidelity" a couple of days ago (Pacula's personal review site) and tend to agree with his findings. I say 'tend' as the Supras that I use exhibit most of the qualities he mentions but seem to have a more stable nature with bass (nothing seems rolled off) but the highs do have that 'shelved' quality where it's all there but not 'in your face' which is how I now prefer it.
Some CDs have a simply wonderful high end minus the glare compared to others so I have to say that the 'shelved' quality is probably more an accurate quality since it depends on the material played (how it was recorded). I can't attest to the WE 16ga but the Supras can really shine.
If I had any doubts as to a 'shelved' high end it was laid to rest when watching 'John Wick' on blu-ray. There's a scene where he tears up his basement floor with a sledgehammer and the metallic ring that precedes the concussive bass of the sledge breaking the concrete is quite jarring. After the first blow I had to brace myself for the next few. The highs are there when called for and not one iota more. I like that.
All the best,
Nonoise |
I have heard Supra speaker cables in a dealer's demo system which used Western Electric horns and drivers. The system sounded great. I can't say how much the Supras were contributing to what I heard but they were certainly part of it. |
Nonoise,
I tend to agree with your observations. I ordered a pair of the Supra speaker cables. I need to find out for myself how they fare against the WE. Best, Rob |
Mikirob,
I hope they work as well for you as they do for me. I was told by Lars at Sfojn that they need about 100 hours to set and at the 40-50 hour mark I thought they couldn't do better. At around the 100 hour mark they did.
Now it may all be my imagination but I've gone way beyond the 100 hour mark and they seem to allow a bit more here and there and this is with very familiar CDs.
All the best,
Nonoise |
It is astounding to me that the about $15,000 Tara Labs speaker cable can be compared to the about $80 WE16ga speaker cable in the same breath, with the WE16ga comparing so close, so favorably, to most if not all the vaunted speaker wires; and perhaps the WE betters those vaunted wires in certain categories such as musicality, if not in overall performance. At any rate it is close, neck and neck. Let us nitpick about the ninth degree of top end extension (as though realistically) men over forty can truly hear it. Or the supposed "inner detail." Let us pay the $14,000 plus difference in cash to get it. Frankly, it's embarrassing, perhaps downright stupid. |
Nonoise,
I doubt that they will top the WE, so the Supra will likely end up as my home theatre wire. |
I appreciate the discussion taking place on this thread. I can relate to virtually all of it. What is the quest?
1.Currrent High End audiophile sonic criteria or
2.An attempt to get to the emotional heart and soul of music.
They are two different objectives that will lead to a different sound and listening experiences. I'm not interested in debating which is "right", I just know which is more satisfying and fulfilling for me. Reading this thread It's apparent there are others who listen in the same fashion also.
I have no criticism of those who hear and prefer their sound in an alternative manner. This is the true expression of personal choice.
I learned my lesson 6 years ago with my exposure to SET amplifiers. All the warnings and caution about them just turned out to be nonsense and misguided IMO.
Any audio component or product that has the ability to get me more emotionally involved is doing something very right. I 'll let other argue/debate the technology and why it should or shouldn't work. At this point I don't care, I just listen and judge based on what I hear.
Charles, |
Jet and others, I now have the WE ICs in my main rig after 30 hours of burn in. Please see my build notes a few posts back. They are not coming out. I decided to shield them with Belden tinned copper tube braiding soldered at BOTH ends and the sound is simply stunning. They sound very much like the Belden 8402, but a larger stage and tad more openness. I used the Switchcraft connectors also.
Thus far I am very pleased. My digital front end is totally glare free, smooth and engaging to the nth degree. I love the effortless presentation that is drenched in realism. Remember, I also have a WE 16ga digital cable built just recently.
I hope more of this wire becomes available soon so more can enjoy it.
Great posts and information shared by seasoned Agoners on this thread. I am interested in the results of the solid core WE ICs and Supra/WE comparison.
I have one set of Belden ICs with the rest of my non-power cord wire being WE16ga. The WE IC is used on my dac to preamp connection. Belden on the pre to amp. |
09-05-15: Mikirob
It is astounding to me that the about $15,000 Tara Labs speaker cable can be compared to the about $80 WE16ga speaker cable in the same breath, with the WE16ga comparing so close, so favorably, to most if not all the vaunted speaker wires; and perhaps the WE betters those vaunted wires in certain categories such as musicality, if not in overall performance. At any rate it is close, neck and neck. Rob, for my thoughts on why a high degree of correlation between cable performance and cable price should not be expected, see my posts here and here, and in the links provided therein. While the findings you and the others have reported about the WE and Belden cables are certainly a wonderful and valuable discovery, IMO they are not at all surprising. Enjoy! Best regards, -- Al |
Hi Almarg,
I read your referenced articles. Brilliant as always.
Grannyring, you should write a comment on Jeff Day Blog about your interconnect/digital experience. I believe many of Day's readers will have interest including Yazaki-san. Many kudos to you for pushing this envelope.
Jet, as well. |
Thanks to Jetrexpro for being the first to try it! The best IC recipe with the WE16ga is interesting to me. Mine are shielded just like the Belden and thus far I love the results. |
Charles,
As always a level-headed, thoughtful post. Like you in my audio journey its not worthwhile to debate what listening objective is right. They are both right. It is personal choice. What is truly remarkable is that the WE16ga to a great degree can satisfy both camps. Best, Rob |
Grannyring,
Can't wait to hear it myself. Best, Rob |
The TNT review of the Supra Ply 3.4 speaker cables, includes a discussion on the benefits of tinned wire; The Ply 3.4 makes use of 192 pure tin plated OFC copper strands in a low inductance design. The advantages of low inductance and tin plating can be summarized as follows: low inductance gives a better transient performance while the tin plating minimises the (in)famous skin-effect by acting as a semi-Litz conductor and minimises also the current jumps over oxidized surfaces of individual wires in the conductor, so to say, such a configuration works with the same advantages of solid-core cables. The tin plating is considered better than the silver plating because copper and tin "melt" together without creating a diodic barrier such as between copper and silver. Moreover the tin plating protects the OFC copper from oxidation. On another topic, are those of you with Supra cables using the screened (aka, shielded) version? TNT liked the sound of the Supras with the shield connected but, as is often the case, I found a whole bunch of comments saying shielding of speaker cables is basically BS. |
In reading the Positive Feedback article cited above, it appears that the banana plugs in the pictures are Acoustic Revive RBN-1, which are rhodium plated.
Though it looks like the bananas were used on one end only, the 4 bananas cost a good bit more than the wire.
I found that using a connector, even on one end, affected the sound. I used them with no connectors.
https://www.acoustic-revive.com/english/rbn1/rbn1_01.html |
I use the Supra 3.4W which is a compressed version of the standard 3.4 without the shielding (you can get the standard 3.4 either way). It's inductance is .05 lower than the standard 3.4 but I don't know if it's easily discernible between the two while listening. Looking at it crosscut you'd think, at first, it was copper foil, one run atop the other. It came out in 2014 so there's not much in the way of reviews out there that I could find.
All I know is it sounds very good and is more coherent across the board and betters the Supra 2.5 which I also have.
All the best,
Nonoise |
to expand a bit on Charles' point and to relate my point of view - My system -300b tubes 6C6 driver tubes, Audio Note Transformers and Audio Note Speakers is all about rich tonal musicality. This amp is a classic Western Electric 91a which is a tonal, musical, gets-the-pacing-right beast. I have also learned over the past few months that it is also pretty highly resolving. I have as well learned that I can have much of that resolution without hurting the emotional musicality we all love. I plan on accepting nothing less. Classical music presents its own set of challenges which to my ears in order to get it right needs a good bit of resolution. My challenge is to find the interconnect that gets all of these elements in the right balance.
I am on the cable journey like all of you but am not yet able to draw any firm conclusions as to which interconnect I can live with. I continue down my road of discovery.
Gannyring, In my experience 30 hours is very short time for the WE16ga interconnects. I hope your journey is smoother than mine. |
Following the lead of Jetrexpro, I too am not ready to make any final judgments on the WE or Belden wires. And I agree that a final judgment on these cables must take into account not only one's position in the "neutral/accurate" vs. "rich/musical/PRAT" debate but also the other gear used with the cables. In my case, my high efficiency vintage speakers are already warm, rich and dynamic; they are very smooth (no horn shout) but the top end is slightly soft and tapers off in the extreme highs. If I use other gear with the same characteristics, the colorations become too extreme. At the same time, I don't want my cables (or amplifiers or any other gear) to interfere with or detract from any of the special qualities the speakers have in the first place. So cable selection is a bit of a tightrope walk. |
Jet, Yeah me too! I did shield mine and thus far I love them. We will see what the future holds. I also used Switchcraft connectors. These little things do make a difference. I know connectors sound different and do impact the overall sound of a cable. I would rather just do away with all the RCA connectors/jacks and solder the IC directly to both components. Well we know that is not practical.
Maxima95 makes a great point. No connectors are best and they way I experience the WE wire. Not everyone can use bare wire however. |
Well, that's what makes the world go round. I'm going to pop open a nice bottle of wine and listen to my rich and musical rig. Now that I have my tinned copper star I'm going to Marshall my posse for some down-home good music, my brother has arrived with his soldering iron and mutual audiophile friends for a good old-fashioned Sunday shoot-out. We will start to brand tomorrow some Arizona Green Cactus. Today we will all have a resolute good time with tone, warmth, PRAt, texture, emotion, real musicality at any volume I like. I might get up, dance around and "kick out the jams." Today feels like a Rock n' Roll day. Best, Rob |
Hi Jet,
You mention the resolution up your SET amplifier and this is what I mean. I was lead to believe that resolution would be sacrifice if I decided to go this route, although I would be rewarded with a "warm and colorful "sound.
. I find this type of impression condescending in hindsight, yes there is plenty of natural warmth, tonal color and vividness but also true resolution without any hype or exaggeration. Given the current make up of my audio system I now joyfully experience the highest level of nuance, transparency and resolution I have ever had. I'm very happy with this result. All of this satisfaction from a "mere" 8 watt amplifier. |
Rob,
I can literally feel your joy, have much fun today with your brother and friends listening to music. |
