Looking for really fine cables at really low price
I have been listening to excellent sounding Exemplar exception cables for the last several weeks. While my HFCables are better they are also much more expensive than the below $500 cables.
They offer an excellent sound stage, dynamics, and top to bottom quality sound. Not only are they inexpensive but they are very portable and easy to install.
Once I've found ICs or speaker wire I like I tend to forget about it. Most of my rig is solid core AQ stuff, balanced wherever possible...including some "Type 8" speaker wire that supposedly uses Real Good copper and sounds fabulous…or at least I THINK it does…in any case there is zero hum anywhere even with my tube amp, and I like that.
Listening today to my Duelund 16guage interconnects terminated with Canare f10 RCA plugs. Without shielding. Very nice natural sound. Very pleasing. They have three weeks of burn in time in the back room. Much nicer than the WE16g wire. Warm with lots of natural detail. Very nice, keepers for sure.
Just put back in the only other pair of speaker cables I have that display the same vintage (real sounding) tone that I get from the WE wire and they consist of multiple, 26awg 6N copper wires individually insulated in cotton in a specific geometry on top (HF and MF) and quad connected 16 awg 4N copper in cotton to the LF so the aggregate is 16 awg on top and 13 awg on the bottom. Being solid core and untinned, they do sound different from the stranded tinned WE wire I have been using (dual 10awg pairs to each speaker) but they have pretty much the same tone and the differences are subtle...maybe a little less warmth and slightly more incisiveness but not quite the fullness provided by the 10 awg WE wires although not lean in any respect. Trade-offs but very similar tone. WE wires are back on the Cable Cooker for a tune-up.
Signature8 when I made shielded ICs with WE Stranded 16g wire I remember ordering 1/2inch shield. It was very hard threading two conductors through the shield so you need plenty of room.
Before I start cooking thanksgiving dinner I wanted to update this thread about using WE16gauge stranded wire as power supply to ground and b+ in my WE91a 300b amp. It has a warmth and musical tone that draws me into the music. Slightly diffuse which makes sense since it is stranded wire. That diffuse quality adds a depth and richness that is very pleasing but also a bit muddy in my system. There is a euphonic quality that also bothers me a bit. Meaning - a basic sameness to the overall sound tamber that now is present on every recording. A slight grayish color present especially in the lower Mids.
I pulled the WE16g wire ten days ago and replaced it with 14guage solid core pure silver wire. The silver wire of course makes the sound less diffuse since it is solid core and not stranded. The sound of this wire keeps changing daily so it’s too soon to render any conclusion. Today after ten days it sounds warm but not euphonic. That grayish overall tonal color of the WE wire is gone. I like the solidity of the images. I like the tonality and additional clarity. Warm and clean and musical on it’s good days and on the bad days slightly thin and overly bright. I hate breaking in wire.
what I find about WE16guage stranded wire of course only pertains to my system which with 300b tubes and Audio Note speakers tends towards the warm and textured side already. This wire is adding to the sound I already have so it would make sense that I would find the WE wire additive. We’ll see in a few more days how I ultimately find the silver wire to sound.
Wanted to order some tin plated copper shielding for Deulund 16 gaguge wire to make balanced IC's. Would 1/8" shielding work for two wires or a 1/4" required. Anyone has any experience with this? Thanks.
I can jump in with my two cents on the Supra 3.4 ply speaker wires. I got mine from Lars. Nice guy. He is not the only source in the US. You can get them cheaper at Madisound, which is where I’m going to place my next order when I figure out my length requirement.
I did not like the combi connectors that I chose because I wanted to be able to switch between spade and banana plugs for two different sets of speakers. The connector ends would manage to loosen up on a weekly basis no matter how tight I tried to get them. So I just went bare wire.
A unique aspect of their structure is the rectangular shape of the weave. This makes it a little trickier to trim off the casing without also nicking/cutting some of the wire. And as thick as this wire is for inserting into stock vintage speaker terminals, it is doable with some imagination ... that is, unless the openings are big enough, which my current set of speakers are.
For the money, you can’t go wrong. But I suggest going bare ends if at all possible.
signature8, you twist two of the same type of wire, with or without a core, then connect one wire between pin 2 (positive) at both ends, connect the other wire to pin 3 (negative) at both ends, place a shield around those two wires connected to Pin 1 (ground) only at the source end and then countersprial a ground wire (i.e., in the opposite direction to the two twisted wires inside of the shield) outside of the shield and connect that ground wire to pin 1 at both ends. You need three total wires per cable run, plus the shield and whatever other materials you use to construct the cable.
Are you saying that just connect Pin 2, put the shield on and connect only at source to Pin 1, and then wrap another 16 gauge Duelund on the shield and connect to Pin 3 on both ends? Just want to make sure I understand, not an expert on this. Just ordered Furutech 601, and 602, and wire from PartsConnexion, they have 25
No, you don't need shrink wrap but I would recommend a techflex covering over the braid shield. DIY'ers don't always consider the effects of long-term wear and tear. Some manufacturers would probably put the twisted pair inside of some type of tube, or an elaborate wrapping material, before putting them inside of the copper braid shield, so that repeated bending and rubbing couldn't possibly cause wearing of the cotton sheath over the conductors. Most manufactured products also use filler materials so there are no wires flopping around inside of the assembly. You might want to consider a middle ground by wrapping the conductors in teflon tape. To be clear on the construction, my recommendation is to shield the conductors inside of a tinned copper braid shield connected only at the source end and a full sized (same gauge as the conductors) ground wire counter-spiraled outside of the braid shield and connected at both ends.
Some might say the shield is not needed and creates more sonic problems than it solves. It would be simple to make up a pair without the shield to get a feel for how they will sound...you can always add the shield, techflex, heatshrink etc. later. I have never had a problem with shields, either on bulk cables I have terminated or on cables I have constructed from basic wire and other materials.
Regarding wire gauge, there are too many theories to get into here on both gauge and geometry, but I suggest you look some stuff up on this forum and other web-places. Many would think the 16awg wire to be too thick for interconnects. However, Furutech's FA-alpha S22 is actually a little larger than 16awg so it is not unheard of. Many manufacturers use wire gauges in the 18 to 26awg range. This Duelund or WE wire is inexpensive to try so, why not? The connectors can be expensive but if you don't like the result then just take them apart and reuse the connectors on your next experiment. If you want to pay less than the cost of the Furutech FP-601/602 series, try their FP-705/706 series of connectors, which are also quite good for the money.
I have made many balanced cables with other wire. Just use tinned copper braid shield for shielding. Order about a third to a half longer length than your signal cables since it will become shorter as it expands. There are other aspects you will want to consider such as whether to simply twist the two signal wires together or to wind them around a core, whether to place the ground inside or outside of the shield (outside is my preference), and whether to connect the shield at both ends or at only the source end (source end only is my preference). I have had great luck with Furutech FP-601M and FP-602F connectors (I like gold but they can be had in rhodium also). Good luck.
Has anyone made Balanced IC's with Duelund 16 gage wire, if so what to use for shielding? I am using Belden 8402 Balanced IC's right now, but would like to try Duelund. Thanks.
I realize this is off-topic but for those who might be interested in trying different resistors in their tube electronics, I highly recommend the new Audio Note Silver tantalum resistors. They are only available as 2 watt and so may not be suitable for all applications.
I have gradually been converting my electronics over to use the AN Silvers in most critical spots, and I have been very pleased with the improved sound quality each time. The Silvers have greater resolving power, better micro-dynamics and better transparency than the resistors they replaced which include older style Audio Note Tantalums, Mills wirewounds and others. Unfortunately they take a long time to break in, 100 hours or more. Both PartsConnexion in Canada and Hifi Collective in UK carry the full range of Audio Note resistors.
Grannyring it's fun trying out this vintage wire. It hasn't worked out as well for me as it has for others but it's not surprising since I have audio note speakers and audio note output transformers on my amp that audio note wire might work better for me.
I am using the WE 16 as hook up wire not duelund. I hate the amount of time it takes to break this wire in so I'm going to try something different this time. I've got more Duelund wire coming as well as the solidcore 14 gauge silver wire so I'll make power cords out of both of them and burn them in that way so when I'm ready to install them inside of my amp as hook up wire the burn in time should be less.
Granny, my speaker cable is a Wireworld Eclipse, the original version that dates back to the 1990s. I have tried many other cables over the years but I always return to the Eclipse.
Jet, did you use the new Duelund 16ga wire? It is better than the WE16. I am referring to the new Duelund wire.
I love the fact both you and Salectric are open minded enough to try this wire. Not everyone is. The new Duelund wire is wonderful for ICs. I will try the thinner gauge per Salectric comments when it is available.
My findings are similar to Salectrics although I didn’t hear it immediately. I spent months with WE16 but once I rebuilt my amp on a copper/aluminum subchassis and listened to Kondo ICs and Audio note Lexus Speakers cables I preferred that synergy.
Tonight WE16 hook up wire in my Power Supply sounds cleaner than it did yesterday and so it needs more burn in time. I remember how long WE wire needed to burn in as interconnects so it should have been no surprise. There are no absolutes in hi end audio...change one thing and other elements get thrown out of balance. Removing the bleeder resistor from my amp’s power supply has done just that. After hearing it without the bleeder with more freedom and dynamics I wouldn’t put it back in but I’ve opened up another can of worms too. I am guessing a bleeder, besides bleeding voltage from capacitors is also a form of power supply regulation. A regulated power supply has a sound just like a non regulated power supply has a different sound. This is something Salectric has talked to me about. Don’t always assume just because your electronics have a regulated power supply it’s always going to sound great.
Well the Duelund 16ga is a world beater as an IC.....in my rig. I have not tried it as speaker cable. The WE10ga makes world class speaker cable in my rig. I like it much better than the WE16. Better tone and body for sure.
Always system dependent. A world beater in one system may be just OK in another. That happens with all manner of wire and gear. I think we all get that.
I love the Duelund 16ga as IC wire! Perfect in my system.
Rob, you're right, I have been the minority view throughout. But I find it interesting that my complaints about the WE16 are now acknowledged as the areas where the Duelund improved on the WE. The majority apparently didn't hear these limitations until they heard the Duelunds.
My opinion has been the same all along: the WE and Duelund are great values but they are not world-beaters as some people claim. And my opinion is based on what I hear with my own ears, not what some other hobbyist says on his blog. Magazine reviewers, ezine writers and bloggers serve a function in that they can introduce others to products they might not hear about otherwise, but when it comes to drawing conclusions about how something sounds I only trust my own ears.
Salectric, you have been the minority view all throughout the WE16ga and Duelund DCA16ga reviews which generally get rave reviews overwhelmingly. I can only speak for myself, and I find these cables and interconnect to be wonderful. As the audiophile community is fond of saying, "YMMV"; I encourage audiophiles looking for really excellent cables at a lower price to give them a try. Jeff Day, Jack Roberts (The Beatnik of Dagogo) chose them over $15,000 High Fidelity cables in his system, Jim Smith (guru of "how to get better sound") plus many more credible audiophiles apparently really like this wire. Read Jeff Day review in this month's Positive-feedback. Best, Rob
For those wanting to try the Duelund wire as interconnect, I suggest waiting until the new small gauge Duelund wire is available early next year. It should have greater potential than the 16g.
I have posted a few times that my experiences with WE wire as speaker cable were not successful. I reached the same conclusion with the Duelund 16g wires. While the Duelund is clearly better than the WE, it still falls short of what I consider acceptable in terms of resolution, tonal balance and micro-dynamics.
I decided to give the Duelund a final chance by trying it with Furutech spades rather than with bare ends. If this causes me to change my opinion on the Duelund, I will post a follow-up comment. I just ordered the spades so I will take me a couple weeks.
Interesting as clarity is a trait that rates very high with this wire in my system. System synergy is everything however. Please update us as you learn more!
I have not tried a shielding the wire as yet for use as ICs.
After 12 days with the WE16gauge installed as hook up wire in the b+ and power supply ground, where the sound was changing everyday, the sound is much more natural than the 12guage GE wire it replaced. The tinnyness of the GE is gone, but I am hearing a lack of clarity, a veiled sound in the lower mids that was not there before. Will leave it in for a few more days. I have ordered 3ft of 14guage solid core silver wire to try in the power supply ground. If that sounds good I'll have enough of the silver left to install into the b+.
the Duelund 16g interconnects don't sound fully broken in after 125 hours. Will leave them burning in the back room for another week.
Thanks for your feedback. If I may...I have a few more questions.
What kind of connectors did you use? Did you experiment with different types of connectors and what were your findings? I am seeking the vintage tone of the Duelunds but I have to be real careful with HF extension and energy...not too much...:) I am ok with an IC having an open SQ. Are your Duelunds shielded at both ends?
pc123v, Really not even close IMHO. The 16GA is far more extended and open. Far more transparent while retaining all of the wonderful musicality of the Belden. The Belden is good, but next to the Duelund it is rather too dark and muddy sounding.
Any feedback on sonic differences between the Belden 8402 and Duelund 16GA interconnects? Which is more extended at the top end? How about bass slam? Listening taste almost solely Jazz female vocals and acoustic instrumental especially piano and acoustic guitar. Thanks.
Strange as the WE10 gauge is the polar opposite of sizzle and sibilance in my rig. Smooth highs and tons of body. I don't terminate mine however. Just bare wire best.
Dual (i.e., double run bi-wired) twisted pairs of thee WE 10awg here for speaker cables and a quad version (i.e., 4 twisted WE 10awg wires for pos and neutral, plus 2 more for ground - 6 wires total) for power cords to my Class A monoblocks. Really like the sound. In the process of making some twisted pair shielded power cords from the WE 10awg for front-end digital gear.
Have also tried versions of using the WE 16awg and WE 14awg for speaker cables.
I still believe the 16awg wire probably sounds great with low to moderate powered amps as used by Jeff Day and others but IMO it is hard to beat the larger 10awg for big solid state amps.
The sound of the Duelund wire on higher powered amplifiers may further improve if configured as a twisted four-wire star-quad providing 13awg per pole. Even better bi-wiing with two quads per speaker.
Has anyone tried braiding 8 or more of the 16awg wire as done by Kimber or Jena?
grannyring, yes, I like it a lot, but sent that WE10ga to my brother who is working in Germany for the next couple or more years. He bought some new stuff over there and he is really enjoying the WE10ga speaker cables. I believe he is going to give the Dueland DCA16GA a try as well as the Dueland 16ga interconnect Parts Connection is offering. Likely he will build his own. How is your new place in TN working out for you sound wise? Absolute Best to You. I really like the power cables you build. Rob
grannyring, you will love the Duelund wire as speaker cables. I bought a lot if it when it initially came out. Yes, it is "crazy good stuff." Best, Rob
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