Looking for really fine cables at really low price

I have some on the way from tajacobs and look forward to hearing the comparison with cables I have around here. Have any of you conditioned them on an Auidodharma Cable Cooker? I am thinking I will maybe cook them for about 5 days before putting them in my system.

Granny, I liked your thought to try a simple twisted pair but wanted more wire than 16 awg so I decided to also try some of the larger 14 awg that Teresa (tajacobs) is selling. The individual strand size is the same as with the smaller 16 awg wire. Theoretically, the quad run of 16 awg should perform better due to the star quad geometry I plan to use, the smaller individual wire gauge (e.g., 16 vs. 14 awg should have less skin effect, if you believe in that at audio frequencies) and the larger aggregate size (13 vs. 14 awg) but the differences are small so, you never know.

Hey guys, tajacobs is a she...Teresa Jacobs.

You all peaked my interest with this stuff so I have purchased the wire but I will not be able to make the cables for a few weeks.

I plan to bi-wire by making a star-quad run of the WE 16awg (13 awg aggregate) to connect my MF/HF drivers and a star-quad run of the WE 14awg (11awg aggregate) to connect my LF drivers.

I also have the Belden 8402 coming to make balanced cables using either Vampire or Furutech connectors that I have here. I will probably connect the shield at the source end only and run a separate spiraled ground wire around the outside of the casing.

I will let you know what I hear when it is all done.

After two days on the cooker the WE16/14 star-quad bi-wire speaker cables are now in my system.
They sound pretty darn good. I am not really surprised since I know you guys have pretty good ears but sheesh, I could have saved a bundle on speaker cables over the years!
Compared to the double run of HT Pro 11+/reterminated, the WE 16/14 wire sounds maybe just a little warmer with a little less (excessive) bloom in the bass, and a little more up front with vocals. Maybe a little wider and deeper soundstage. Tonal quality is very good. High frequencies sound quite natural. The bass I am hearing is full and has good punch. Not a night and day difference from the HT cables but a little more of this and a little less of that, mostly in a good way.
This is very similar to the sound I get with Jupiter copper wire in cotton, but maybe a little tonally warmer than the Jupiter, which sounds good tonight but makes me wonder whether the tinning is causing a sort of euphonic warmth.
The test will be to play them for awhile and then put the HT cables back in. Thanks for the suggestion to try this wire. Now I need to get busy on making ICs from the Belden cable I bought.

After 24 hours of Ayre's full glide tone they now sound even better.
Stranded and tinned, with a rubber('ish) dielectric....who wouldda thought?

A tightly twisted, tinned copper pair in rubber with a braid shield that is not at all spaced away from the conductors....I can hardly wait.
If it sounds as good as you say, and beats what I am using, I will have to give up being skeptical!

Belden IC's have continued to sound clear and clean but with a rich and natural tone throughout the frequency range.

Thanks Jetrexpro for the clarification. That is pretty much what I look for in all my components and cables so I look forward to finishing the IC project. After all the work you have put in, you are obviously very in-tune with the sound of your well-done system, and what you are looking for. Good luck finding the right ICs.

These are all supposed to be 30 awg tinned copper wires with the aggregate gauge determined by how many wires are bundled together. From what I can find in a quick search, I believe this is C11000, also known as Electrolytic Tough Pitch (ETP) copper wire, which is coated with tin and then a type of thermoplastic insulation/dieletric. The cotton is over the plastic so it is not really part of the dielectric like the cotton on Jupiter Condenser wire, which is directly over the copper wire. I believe the cotton on the WE wire is a covering for durability (and maybe to reduce static build-up?).

Here is a document that may address some of the construction characteristics but requires some speculation as to how the vintage wire was made;AIW Wire Construction Guide

From what I can find, I believe a major supplier of the Western Electric (WE) wire was American Insulated Wire Company (AIW) in Pawtucket, Rhode Island, U.S.A. Here is what the factory looks like today...AIW Factory

The 16 awg wire seems to be the most common size discussed in these posts for audio purposes, at least recently, but I found posts from several years ago where Benjamin Zwickel of Mojo Audio was constructing and selling power cables made with WE wire, and his clients were very impressed when his cords bested incumbents costing many times more. Ben found that the larger gauge wire sounded even better in his power cords, which is interesting but not surprising since virtually every major cable maker goes up in conductor size for their higher-priced speaker cables.

The pair of speaker cables I made use four 16awg wires and four 14awg wires to each speaker with the two sets of four wires twisted together and then cross-connected, which reduces inductance...a good thing in power cables and speaker cables. Therefore, I have the benefit of the 16awg wire (but double the size) going to my MF/HF drivers and the benefit of the much larger pair of 14awg wires going to my LF drivers (for an aggregate of 11awg to the LF of each speaker). In a week or two, I will post what I think of cables made from the 10awg wire since I have some of that on the way. I plan to run four wires per speaker to the LF (for an aggregate 7awg per pole) and only two each to the MF/HF for 10awg per pole.

I like the sound of these speaker cables, but it is different from my other cables that use many individually insulated OCC wires (also in a shotgun, bi-wire configuration) resulting in an aggregate 11 awg going to MF/HF and also to LF. In short, I find the sound of the WE speaker cables to be a little thick (some might say dense), focused on the midrange where they provide a nice tonality, but also good-sounding in the LF or bass, where they have good body but without the bloat some cables allow. In the high frequencies, I find them a touch shelved-down, and maybe even rolled-off, but primarily shelved-down, meaning the HF, while fully present, seems to have lower output compared to the lower frequencies. This sound recalls earlier days when our speakers had large drivers and our systems were musical but not so detailed. I believe that is the attraction...it is nice to be reminded that perfection is not a prerequisite for enjoyment.

There is certainly something about this wire since so many like it. However, those of us with resolving systems mostly find that, when compared to other good wire, the WE wire doesn't offer the same level of resolution. This doesn't surprise me since we are comparing stranded, tinned, TPC to OCC, silver ribbon (in the case of Dueland) and other well-designed wire. I am surprised it is good enough to consider allowing it to remain in our systems. I have to admit, the midrange has very good timbre and depth and the bass is better than with my reference wire, because the WE provides full-bodied, powerful bass (like my reference) but with out the excessive bloom that can lead to boominess on some material.

I am not a cable fanatic, and the 1% difference in conductivity between TPC and OCC is not likely enough to be audible, but I am surprised how listenable this tinned and stranded wire with plastic dielectric sounds in my system. I suspect there is a combination of things going on and, in this case, maybe two wrongs end up making things sound right.

I am going to construct the Belden ICs, and then another set of speaker cables using the WE 10awg wire I am going to receive this week, and then I am going to go back to my original project and construct another set of speaker cables using Jupiter copper in cotton wire. I have one set of the Jupiter SCs that sound great but they were constructed for my NC1200 monos that I finally decided to sell, so I need a longer set for my stereo amp that I plan on keeping. I am glad I will be able to choose from several offerings that all sound good but none of which cost a ridiculous amount of money.

Mikirob, you may be right about the construction, although I doubt it because the wires I have connecting my mid and high frequencies are the WE 16 awg from tajacobs. Doubling the runs and cross-connecting lowers inductance but in my experience does not change the wire's intrinsic sonic characteristics.

That said, even though I do not find this WE wire to be perfect, I still like the sound of the wire very much and the fact it is going head-to-head with wire I have settled on after 20+ years of trying different wires means it is special indeed. Nothing in this hobby is perfect and every component, wire, speaker, etc. is going to have strengths and weaknesses, plus they are going to synergize differently with each other.

It is interesting that Ben Zwickel from Mojo Audio, who was very successful at making and selling power cords from NOS WE wire, had this to say about speaker cables made from the wire we are using, in a post from 2010;

"The WE speaker wire is about the same. I used it for years with full range speakers but it too is not wide bandwidth and tends to sound a bit cloudy with a rolled off top end.

It can be a good cure for "digititus."

I do not find it to be "cloudy" or to have an overly narrow bandwidth but I do find it to be midrange-focused with a touch of warmth/thickness/density that can be seductive compared to cables that display ultra high resolution and clarity through the midrange. At the high end, in a direct comparison, I hear clarity and extension from my multiple small gauge, solid core, individually insulated, OCC wires that I do not hear from the WE wire. However, the WE wire does sound natural in the high frequencies, but just a little less pure and sweet at the very high end. I do not hear specific limitations in the bass and, with my speakers and in my room, the WE wire actually improves on a bit of excessive bloom on certain recordings. Overall, at least so far, what I hear leans in the same direction of what Ben reported in 2010, but not as far off-center.

Quad runs of WE16 and WE14 continue to break-in and hit their stride over here. They are a bargain and very likable because they are musical and commit no fatal flaws. I find them "mellow" in the HF but natural, even if they are not as "pristinely clear" sounding or quite as extended as the best OCC wires I have here. They continue to add a bit of warmth/body from the upper midrange through the bass, which adds to their musicality and which I find to be a good thing. Bass with these wires is full and powerful, with just the right amount of bloom. The bass on Alice in Chains Unplugged is sounding perfect.

Next I am going to throw even more wire at another pair of cables and make a bi-wire set from the WE 10 awg that I purchased as twisted pairs. I plan to use a twisted-quad run for the LF (i.e., 7 awg) and a twisted pair for the MF/HF.

This may be the same WE 10 awg wire that TWL is using to make their American Series speaker cables, based on their literature indicating they use 210, 30 awg wires, which is 7 awg and would result from two 10 awg wires, assuming they are running quads of the 10 awg wire. If you order bi-wire cables, they use separate 7awg runs to both the LF and the MF/HF...that is a lot of wire!

One reason I think using more wire sounds good in my system is that I am running a very high current amplifier compared to Yazaki-san and his crew, Jeff Day and the folks at Shun Mook Audio, who are using the WE16 wire in twisted pairs between lower powered amps and high efficiency speakers. I am not surprised I like more wire since my system throws a lot more current to the speakers...different strokes.

I agree Jetrexpro.
For you guys making ICs, have you considered trying some of the WE tinned solid core wire in cotton using something in the 22-24awg range with either one or two conductors...or a braid. 22-24 awg solid core wire has proven pretty good for ICs over the years.
BTW, after doing a little digging, I found there are more than a couple of folks making cables out of the WE wire. Mojo Audio apparently had good luck with PCs. TWL and J&K Audio (at more competitive prices) offer ICs, SCs and PCs. There is also Shun Mook Audio in CA, and several in Asia where this wire seems to be well-regarded.

It beats experimenting with expensive wire :~)
I have some connectors I need to use anyway.

I bought 50ft of 22ga solid core wire from Tajacobs.

Jetrexpro, that is the same wire I would like to try but I need to finish the Belden ICs yet. When you finish your ICs with the 22awg solid wire, let us know what you think. Am I the only one here building balanced (XLR) cables?

I tried the solid core for speaker cables and not as good.

Grannyring, I am not surprised the stranded sounds better as speaker cable but I would be surprised if it sounded better as interconnect cables. Did you try the solid core wire in interconnects? If so, what gauge did you use?

Rob, you have ordered the correct wire.

Brownsfan, your WE14 will sound just fine.
I have WE14 and WE16 over here together in a bi-wire pair and they sound great. The runs are doubled up and twisted to lower inductance.

The WE wire is the same regardless of the gauge. It is all 30awg strands of tinned copper with the larger gauges having more strands. I suspect this is C110, electrolytic tough pitch copper, or ETP. ETP has a minimum conductivity rating of 100% IACS and is required to be 99.9% pure.

From an electrical engineering standpoint, this stuff is just fine. From a conventional audiophile standpoint, there are several shortcomings compared to the C101 OFE (Oxygen-Free Electronic) copper or OCC (Ohno continuous-cast) copper used in many/most of the upper level cable offerings. The science of it is that those two higher grade (e.g., lower impurities, or 99.99% pure compared to 99.9% for ETP) wires have only an additional one percent conductivity rating (101% vs. 100% IACS), although several on-line articles/reviews call ETP copper "clearly inferior" for audio/sonic purposes. Cable-savvy audiophiles will also not like the thermoplastic insulation/dielectric, the relatively large aggregate gauge (wire greater than 20-22 awg is subject to skin effect), and the tinning (most self-respecting audiophiles would never stoop to using tinned wires).

In spite of all that, the WE wire has a tonally rich, somewhat relaxed sound with really nice full bass. IMO, it is a musical contrast to some of the ultra resolving wires out there. I wouldn't get hung up on the size of the wire and certainly not the difference between 16 and 14awg. I believe TWL may be using the 10awg size in their speaker wires that have received several quite positive reviews. I hope to make a set in 10awg this weekend.

Regarding the price, of course it is a tremendous bargain. More will probably try it because of the low entry price. However, I suspect many here are listening in more absolute terms and will end up with whatever wire they enjoy most, regardles of which is lower priced. My WE wires continue to remain in my main system, at least for now.

Salectric, thanks for sharing. The PF article is an interesting read and Mr. Pacula's take on the WE wire pretty much nails it with regard to what I hear in my system, as I have attempted to describe previously in this thread;

a little warmer with a little less (excessive) bloom in the bass, and a little more up front with vocals. Maybe a little wider and deeper soundstage. Tonal quality is very good. High frequencies sound quite natural. The bass I am hearing is full and has good punch.

a little tonally warmer than the Jupiter, which sounds good tonight but makes me wonder whether the tinning is causing a sort of euphonic warmth

focused on the midrange where they provide a nice tonality, but also good-sounding in the LF or bass, where they have good body but without the bloat some cables allow. In the high frequencies, I find them a touch shelved-down, and maybe even rolled-off, but primarily shelved-down, meaning the HF, while fully present, seems to have lower output compared to the lower frequencies. This sound recalls earlier days when our speakers had large drivers and our systems were musical but not so detailed.

the WE wire has a tonally rich, somewhat relaxed sound with really nice full bass. IMO, it is a musical contrast to some of the ultra resolving wires out there

Mr. Pacula closes by stating

Both IC and speaker cable are remarkable, not the best ones there are, but the only ones of their kind.

which I find similar to my statement

it is nice to be reminded that perfection is not a prerequisite for enjoyment

I initially did not agree with Mr. Pacula's take on the bass from the WE wire, which he described as having

"limited frequency range on both ends (treble and bass)"

That caused me to reevaluate why I like the bass from the WE wire so much in my system, and why my other wires comparatively cause "excessive bloom" on some material. It may be that, since my HT wires are known for extended bass, those wires overly drive the very low frequencies of my Aerial 9's, which are rated down to about 30Hz and about -6dB at 27Hz. It is also likely that I have not noticed an absence in low bass extension because, in my system, the lowest frequencies are handled by an Aerial SW12 sub. The sub is wired directly to my preamp using ICs, so it would not be affected by the WE SCs. Therefore, if the WE wires do have a slightly "limited frequency range" in the bass, that characteristic may result in the quality of low bass from my system being actually better overall through the WE wires because they limit the very low frequencies to the main speakers and allow the sub to handle them.

As final thought, it is unfortunate all of you do not have cable conditioning equipment since IME that can greatly reduce the time required before you hear the full capabilities of a cable.

The TNT review of the Supra Ply 3.4 speaker cables, includes a discussion on the benefits of tinned wire;

The Ply 3.4 makes use of 192 pure tin plated OFC copper strands in a low inductance design. The advantages of low inductance and tin plating can be summarized as follows: low inductance gives a better transient performance while the tin plating minimises the (in)famous skin-effect by acting as a semi-Litz conductor and minimises also the current jumps over oxidized surfaces of individual wires in the conductor, so to say, such a configuration works with the same advantages of solid-core cables. The tin plating is considered better than the silver plating because copper and tin "melt" together without creating a diodic barrier such as between copper and silver. Moreover the tin plating protects the OFC copper from oxidation.

On another topic, are those of you with Supra cables using the screened (aka, shielded) version? TNT liked the sound of the Supras with the shield connected but, as is often the case, I found a whole bunch of comments saying shielding of speaker cables is basically BS.

Just installed two pair of Belden 8402 ICs with Vampire XLR connectors. I first cooked them for a day and a half on a Cable Cooker. No harshness whatsoever, just pure, natural-sounding music. In absolute terms, the sound of these ICs along with the WE SC's can compete with anything, with the only variable being personal taste. As a value proposition, the combination is off the charts. Thanks guys, for the recommendations.

Alan Kafton, if you are reading this, please offer these guys a Cable Cooker group buy :~)
audiodharma Cable Cooker

Latest WE wire project consists of simple twisted 1M pairs of WE 10awg wire in a bi-wire configuration (i.e., two pairs per side). The wires are directly connected to the amplifier board of the NC1200 Acoustic Imagery Atsahs, so there are no binding posts and no spades on the amp side. The wire enters the chassis through the former binding post holes and connects directly to the board at four separate contacts, two for positive and two for negative. The woofer and midrange/tweeter wires are discrete from each other, all the way from the board to the speaker.

Currently using Furutech Rhodium plated FP-201s at the speaker end because they use two set screws and were easy to hook up. I may reconsider and switch to unplated Cardas copper spades at the speaker.

Not sure whether it is the larger gauge WE wire, short 1M run, absence of binding posts/spades on the amp end or all of the above but the combination sounds very good, with all the sonic benefits of the WE wire reported here previously and that I have experienced with the other WE wires I have made. BTW, this is in conjunction with the two sets of Belden 8402 ICs I am using. This wire is so easy to enjoy, like a favorite cheap date.

Volleyguy1,

I have liked this stuff from the start and I have made cables from the 16, 14 and 10 awg WE wire. I have sort of stocked up and still have some of each gauge here for future projects.

In my system, all the sizes retain the same sonic characteristics, as I would expect since they are all made from the same tinned 30awg strands with thermoplastic dielectric and a cloth covering.

I like a star-quad configuration for speaker cables so I have a bi-wired set with 4@14awg to the LF and 4@16awg to the MF/HF. These sound very good. On my Class D amp, I am currently running a twisted pair of the 10 awg directly from the amp board, with no binding posts. These also sound very good.

Grannyring and Jetrexpro, I have had good luck ordering tinned copper braid shield and other common parts from McMaster-Carr. BTW, did you notice Take Five Audio is selling Cryo'ed Belden 8402?

Thanks Jetrexpro, it was tough to report that since so many here like the Belden 8402 wire. I will burn them in a bit more on the cooker and try them again once more to make sure of what I am hearing.

In the meantime, I still like the WE speaker cables in all three gauges I have here, 16, 14 and 10 awg. Maybe I should make some ICs from the extra 16awg I have. I think I would try two wires per leg wrapped around a core with a shield connected only at the source end and a separate ground wire spiraled outside the shield. Unfortunately, because I am so happy with the ICs I have, making WE16 ICs is pretty far down on my project list.

After listening to the Belden 8402 for over a week, and then putting my former cables back in the system, the comparison unfortunately was not even close. My other cables have similar warmth and tonal density but much better extension, definition and smoothness throughout the entire frequency range. The Beldens are midrange-centric and, in comparison, sound somewhat veiled, with a rough top end, less definition in the bass, and less smoothness overall.

The comparison included two sets of ICs, one from my DAC to preamp and the other from preamp to power amp(s). My other cables are made with multiple strands of woven, small diameter (28awg), high quality copper (22awg aggregate per leg) in cotton and use high quality Furutech FP-601/602 connectors. I tried both sets with two different power amps, an Ncore NC1200 Class D amp and a high quality McCormack/SMc Signature Class A/B amp. I heard the same result with both amps, with the Belden cables sounding particularly bad with the Class D Ncore amps, which are a bit dark sounding to begin with.

The Belden construction included two sets of balanced cables using moderately high quality Vampire XLR connectors, and the braid shield connected to ground at both ends. The Belden cables were conditioned for about two days on an Audiodharma Cable Cooker, played for hours in my system with the Ayre frequency sweep burn-in track on repeat, and then played with music for over a week. They should have been burned in enough to show their characteristic sound.

When I make balanced IC cables, I typically only connect the shield at the source end but I space it away from the conductors and spiral a separate wire outside the shield connected to ground at both ends. I believe that is a superior construction method and I suppose I could have tried a separate ground wire outside the Belden jacket with the shield connected only at the source end, but I didn't.

I know some of you guys really like the Belden 8402 and will disagree with what I hear, so maybe the difference is in the balanced construction or in my system using high powered amp(s) with moderate efficiency speakers, compared to the lower powered amps and higher efficiency speakers many of you have. Maybe I am just fortunate to have really good ICs for comparison. I cannot explain, but what I have described is what I hear.

I gotta agree with Steakster, I like the WE speaker cables but I am not thrilled with the Belden 8402 ICs so will be trying to sell mine. I found the Belden ICs to be a bit raggedy in the upper frequencies and dark/dull overall.

The WE speaker cables are a different story. I am currently running two pairs of 10awg WE speaker cables (1M long) directly from the amplifier board of each of my Acoustic Imagery Atsah monoblocks (so, no binding posts at the amp end) and they sound outstanding. There is clarity overall, smooth highs, and a perfect balance of depth, drive, fullness and control in the bass. The wire has excellent tonal qualities and the midrange has a nice touch of projection and warmth. There don't seem to be any issues that detract from the musicality of these cables but, if pressed, I would say the high frequencies are slightly less excellent than the remaining aspects of the WE wire...and that's the worst I can say. Overall, they come closer to my ideal than anything I have tried.

After trying the 16, 14 and 10 gauge WE wires, it is my opinion they are cut from the same sonic cloth, as I would expect since they are made from the very same 30awg tinned copper strands encased in thermoplastic then covered with cloth. The only difference is the number of strands used to make the various gauge wires. I suspect the 16awg is plenty big when used with low-powered tube amplifiers while my 400 wpc SS amps really benefit from 2-runs of 10awg wire (7 awg aggregate per amp). I am glad to have stocked up on this wire so I can try some future projects.

With the Dark Matter Cardas ICs, is the shield in each individual cable jacket not connected to anything at either end?

Hi Grannyring, with speaker cables and power cords, low inductance and low resistance are considered good. Heavier gauge wire reduces resistance and effective geometry can reduce inductance. A star-quad geometry is considered to lower inductance compared to a twisted pair and may also offer benefits by reducing the amount of stray magnetic field pickup.

I first heard about star-quad geometry from Jon Risch and Chris VenHaus (before he started VH Audio) over on Audio Asylum years ago. The geometry consists of twisting four wires together in an even twist that is tight enough to maintain shape when bent in normal use, but not so tight as to over-stress the conductors. The "star" part comes when you cross-connect the wires. In other words, connect one pair of wires that are opposite (not next to) each other for the positive polarity and the other opposite pair for the negative side. Chris VenHaus uses this geometry for his well-regarded Flavor 4 DIY power cable as illustrated by his star-quad DIY bulk power cable.

I believe braiding can have a similar effect in lowering inductance and is successfully used by Kimber, HomeGrown Audio, and most spectacularly by Jena Labs. Back in the early days of these websites, many folks successfully braided CAT 5 cable to make speaker cables. The multiple small gauge solid core braided wires is a theme used by Chris VenHaus in his well-regarded Chela cable and by HomeGrown Audio in their top-of-the-line X-32 silver speaker cables. I believe Jena's wire is stranded, as is Kimber's. Unfortunately, I have little experience with braiding cables.

Finally, I have a pair of the WE 16awg & 14awg Star Quad Bi-Wire speaker cables burning in on my Cable Cooker. I made these from Western Electric NOS tinned copper wire by twisting 4-14awg wires for the LF and 4-16awg wires for the MF/HF and cross-connecting the pos and neg runs, resulting in two runs of 16awg wire to each MF/HF pole and two runs of 14awg wire to each LF pole. I soldered some Cardas GRS spades to the tinned wire using Cardas quad eutectic solder. Still need to finish them by cleaning flux and adding heat shrink over the connectors.
WE Star Quad Bi-Wire Speaker Cable

After Six days the extra warmth has gone away.

Please explain "extra warmth" since I thought these IC cables display an inherently warm midrange similar to the WE speaker cables. I have the speaker cables in my system now and I am trying to find time to make the ICs but need to decide which connectors to use. I have both the very good Furutech FP601/602 (G) and the pretty good Vampire XLR connectors here that I could use. At $170/pr the Furutechs seem like overkill compared to the cost of the wire, but they are the best sounding XLR connectors I have heard so will be worth it if there is a chance I will keep these cables in my system for good and, based on what I am hearing from the speaker cables, that is possible.

Grannyring and Mikirob, the 6-foot long SCs are already constructed using Cardas GRS spades. They were burned in for over 2 days on the Audiodharma cooker and then for another full day in my system with Ayre's Full Glide Tone. They sound very good and I doubt the spades made much difference one way or another since the signal also routes through two sets of Cardas binding posts, at the amp and speakers. I do believe that running the cables as an external bi-wired pair, doubling both the MF/HF and LF runs (4 wires to each) for less resistance, using the larger 14awg wire for LF while keeping the 16awg for the MF/HF, and the closely spaced/twisted quad geometry (which reduces inductance), all probably played a positive role, particularly since I am driving moderately efficient (but known to be power hungry) speakers using a powerful high current amplifier. I suspect the aggregate 13 awg for MF/HF and 11 awg for LF is more than adequate for a 6-foot run but I would be interested in hearing even larger versions of this wire.

Regarding the ICs, I cannot use the same connectors as everyone else here because my system is fully balanced - so I need XLR connectors. The two I mentioned, Furutech 601/602 and Vampire XLR, are connectors I have on-hand for cable projects, so would not cost me anything. I looked up Switchcraft XLR connectors and the pins are listed as being a "copper alloy." The Vampire connectors are also listed as having copper alloy pins. The Furutech connectors have beryllium copper and phosphor bronze pins that have been treated with Furutech's proprietary Alpha process, which includes demagnetization and cryogenic treatments.

I would have no problem ordering Switchcraft XLR connectors from Parts Express since they would only cost me about $35 for all 8 connectors (I am making two pairs of cables) but I am skeptical there would be a sonic difference between those and the Vampire connectors, since the signal will be traveling through high quality Cardas XLR connectors at the amp and preamp. OTOH, the Furutech connectors have improved the sound of every cable I have used them on.

I appreciate that Mr. Shirokazu Yazaki and Jeff Day brought these good sounding wires to our attention (and that you guys have shared your findings so prompting me to give them a try), but I am not of the belief that the configuration and connectors they use are the only ones that will result in good sound. The laws of physics still apply. I don't mind being the Guinea pig for trying things differently and I will report back on what I hear.

Not yet, but I suspect TWL may be using the WE10 ga in their Seven Plus and 10 Plus — American Series power cables. They advertise 525 conductors in the Seven Plus and 315 conductors in the Ten Plus. If they are using WE10ga wire, that has about 104-105 conductors per wire (30ga per conductor like the other gauges of WE wire), so one wire each for neutral and hot, plus one for ground, would be three wires with 105 conductors each or 315 conductors. Likewise, if they are using four runs of the 10ga in a star-quad configuration for the Seven Plus, and one additional run of 10ga for ground, that would be 5 wires at 105 conductors per wire or 525 conductors. Coincidence?

Mojo Audio had good success using some type of WE wire for PCs early on but I believe they ran out of the WE stuff and are using different wire now.

I quit using the WE wire for speaker cable so I purchased several Furutech copper plugs/iecs and plan to start by making a pair of unshielded star-quad 10ga (7ga per pole) PCs for my monoblocks. If that goes well, I will try using the 14 or 16 ga wire I have here with a shield for front end gear. I have a bunch of the wire here that I bought before deciding to use other speaker cables so I need to do something with it.

Signature8, the short answer to your question is, yes it is.

If you want to learn more,
1.go to the audioexcellenceaz website or Google search under "audiodharma Cable Cooker"
2. go to Audio Asylum and search for "Cable Cooker" then add the additional parameters,
a. Authored by: alan m. kafton
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slowikpl, I mostly prefer crimping with a hydraulic crimp tool to connect speaker wires to connectors but in the case of the WE wire, I wonder if a good solder joint, which would melt the tin coating, would provide a more direct connection with the copper base metal, compared to crimping over the tin.  I have a bi-wired set of speaker cables constructed with Cardas spades soldered with Cardas solder, and they sound great.  I suspect the wire gauge and configuration will have more to do with how they sound than whether you crimp or solder the connections.

I have lived with the WE power and speaker cables for awhile now, including switching them in and out of my system and comparing with various other cables I have, so I will share some observations.  On the face of things, I wouldn't have expected the WE wires to sound as good as they do, particularly for speaker cables.  In general, I do not care for the sound of plated wires, whether silver-plated or tinned, as with the WE wire, and I most often like solid-core wire over stranded.  Although they are cotton-covered, the dielectric is some sort of plastic that is under the cotton.  I believe the sonic advantage of the WE wires likely has to do with soft-annealing of the copper.    

I like the power cords so far.  The only configuration I am using is an unshielded 7awg twisted quad of the 10awg wires, cross-connected.  This is similar to the highly regarded TWL PC, which is a braided quad of the same wire.  A next project may be to make shielded PCs for my front end gear using the same WE 10awg wire, which comes as a twisted pair.  For that I will simply use the 10awg twisted pair as-is, with a shield and spaced away ground wire.  So far, I have used Furutech FI-11 copper plugs/iecs but I may reconsider and try FI-32(G) connectors for front end gear.

I also like the speaker cable.   I have tried the three main wire gauges, WE 10awg, 14awg and 16awg with my two different high'ish powered amplifiers I have (300 and 350wpc).  A bi-wire, double quad run with a quad of 16awg wires for MF/HF and a quad of 14awg wires for LF sounds quite good and IMO as good as a bi-wired (i.e., two runs) of the (two-wires twisted) 10awg wires.  Another project I am planning is to make a bi-wire set using a twisted pair of the 10awg wires for the MF/HF and a quad of the 10awg wires (aggregate 7awg) to the LF.  I may rethink and use a double quad of the 10awg wires, which would be 7awg to both the MF/HF terminals and to the LF terminals.

Regarding the sound of the WE wire used for speaker cables, even after significant burn-in, both in my system and on an Audiodharma Cable Cooker, I would say they are lacking just touch of refinement, compared to some other cables.  This is a small nuance and not necessarily a bad thing, considering some cables sort of unnaturally smooth things over.  I also find that they have a touch of midrange prominence although, overall, they are fairly even-handed across the board, with the exception of that small midrange focus.  So, IMO, the strengths are an even-handed presentation with a slight midrange focus that seems to enhance vocals and an overall natural/organic sound which is quite enjoyable.  In general, I find the larger the gauge, the better for high powered amplifiers but I am also not surprised a simple pair of the 16 awg size is reported as working well for the SET group.

The wires that I keep going back to over here are another set of DIY cables made from raw wire, using the Jupiter copper in cotton wire.  I am using a braided biwire set with multiple (8-each) 16awg wires for the LF and multiple (8-each) 18awg wires for the MF/HF.  This gives aggregate sizes of 10awg for the LF and 12awg for MF/HF.  Those Jupiter-wire cables seem to offer the same level of naturalness as the WE wire but with additional clarity, more bass punch and a very nice tonal quality.  They do not have the midrange focus that I hear with the WE wire but the mids are in no way recessed.  Overall, in my system, I think they are overall better than the WE wires, although the WE wires are fun to put back in occasionally.  They also beat several well-regarded manufactured wires I have here.

Hi grannyring,
I have a question for you about your post.

I have been enjoying my Western Electric NOS wire greatly. I use 10 gauge for both speaker and power cables.

Me too.  I am currently using two twisted-pair runs (7awg per pole) to bi-wire each speaker.  I have considered double quads (which would be 4awg per pole!) but since I am only using 1M lengths to connect my monoblocks to my speakers, I suspect that anything over the 7awg I am using now would be overkill.  Also, I like that the NOS WE 10awg wire came in pairs and is machine-twisted so the twist is very consistent and probably better than can be done DIY by hand.  

I am however using twisted quad runs as power cords for my 300wpc Class A amplifiers.  The ground is also a pair of 10 awg wires so the total power cord consists of 6 of the 10 awg runs. No current limitations here and they sound better than anything else I have tried.

I tried the new Duelund match of the 16 gauge WE stranded/tinned wire and am very impressed. They better the Belden ic's pretty easily really.

Not surprised since I never really liked the sound of the Belden ICs. I am using a whole different thing here made from multiple small gauge solid core wires of exceptional purity and the Belden wire ICs didn't even compete, they comparitively dulled the sound. 

They better the 16 gauge WE wire also. Best ic's I have ever built. Great wire for unshielded ic's!

I assume you are talking about ICs made from the 16 gauge NOS WE wire?  I never tried making those but based on what everybody is saying about the Duelund wire, I may consider a couple of sets of ICs made from that wire.  Thing is, I have tons of the NOS WE wire here but none of the Duelund wire.  However, it appears Partsconnexion does indeed have that wire back in stock so it is available.  

My question is, how close is the sound of the Duelund wire ICs to that of the NOS WE 16 awg wire ICs?  If they are close, I will likely use the WE wire I have to make a set but if the difference is quite noticeable, then I will probably just go ahead and splurge for the Duelund wire.  I know how these things go and sometimes people like something "new" simply because it is new.  Even though the WE wire has a plastic coating, I believe it is special and very good sounding.  

Another consideration for me is that Jupiter has made an 18 awg tinned stranded copper in cotton hook-up wire for years.  I wonder why that wire hasn't caught on more since I would suspect 18 awg may actually be a bit better for ICs than 16 awg.  I haven't tried the Jupiter tinned/stranded wire either although I have successfully used their other copper or silver in cotton wires and have found their stuff to be very good.  It is half the price of the Duelund wire (although one gauge smaller).

I am using Furutech  FI-11(Cu) plugs/iecs.
The Furutech connectors clamp the wires in a way that allows two wires to be clamped at the same time. The screw that tightens the clamp is located in the middle of the opening for the wires.  I believe this allows the use of spades to be tightened by the clamp but it also allows either the strands of a single wire to be split in halves which each half twisted like a forked snake tongue, or for two separate wires to be used.   IME, the 10 awg WE wire just fits on each side, so I have used two 10 awg wires per pole, plus two for the ground.  Good thing the WE wire is so flexible because terminating that is a bear.  Check the link below and scroll down to see the picture of the back of the plug, where the wires go in.   All of their models terminate similarly.
http://www.furutech.com/technology/
I liked the idea of using two 10 awg wires per pole for my two big amplifiers, and I made a similar cord to power my Isoclean conditioner that powers all my front-end digital stuff.  From the conditioner to the individual digital gear (i.e., server, dac, power supply, etc.), and for preamps, the twisted pair of 10 awg wires is plenty big.

Dual (i.e., double run bi-wired) twisted pairs of thee WE 10awg here for speaker cables and a quad version (i.e., 4 twisted WE 10awg wires for pos and neutral, plus 2 more for ground - 6 wires total) for power cords to my Class A monoblocks.  Really like the sound.  In the process of making some twisted pair shielded power cords from the WE 10awg for front-end digital gear.

Have also tried versions of using the WE 16awg and WE 14awg for speaker cables.

I still believe the 16awg wire probably sounds great with low to moderate powered amps as used by Jeff Day and others but IMO it is hard to beat the larger 10awg for big solid state amps.

The sound of the Duelund wire on higher powered amplifiers may further improve if configured as a twisted four-wire star-quad providing 13awg per pole.  Even better bi-wiing with two quads per speaker.

Has anyone tried braiding 8 or more of the 16awg wire as done by Kimber or Jena?

I have made many balanced cables with other wire.  Just use tinned copper braid shield for shielding.  Order about a third to a half longer length than your signal cables since it will become shorter as it expands.  There are other aspects you will want to consider such as whether to simply twist the two signal wires together or to wind them around a core, whether to place the ground inside or outside of the shield (outside is my preference), and whether to connect the shield at both ends or at only the source end (source end only is my preference).  I have had great luck with Furutech FP-601M and FP-602F connectors (I like gold but they can be had in rhodium also).  Good luck.

No, you don't need shrink wrap but I would recommend a techflex covering over the braid shield.  DIY'ers don't always consider the effects of long-term wear and tear.   Some manufacturers would probably put the twisted pair inside of some type of tube, or an elaborate wrapping material,  before putting them inside of the copper braid shield, so that repeated bending and rubbing couldn't possibly cause wearing of the cotton sheath over the conductors.  Most manufactured products also use filler materials so there are no wires flopping around inside of the assembly.  You might want to consider a middle ground by wrapping the conductors in teflon tape.  To be clear on the construction, my recommendation is to shield the conductors inside of a tinned copper braid shield connected only at the source end and a full sized (same gauge as the conductors) ground wire counter-spiraled outside of the braid shield and connected at both ends.

Some might say the shield is not needed and creates more sonic problems than it solves.  It would be simple to make up a pair without the shield to get a feel for how they will sound...you can always add the shield, techflex, heatshrink etc. later.  I have never had a problem with shields, either on bulk cables I have terminated or on cables I have constructed from basic wire and other materials.  

Regarding wire gauge, there are too many theories to get into here on both gauge and geometry, but I suggest you look some stuff up on this forum and other web-places.  Many would think the 16awg wire to be too thick for interconnects.  However, Furutech's FA-alpha S22 is actually a little larger than 16awg so it is not unheard of.  Many manufacturers use wire gauges in the 18 to 26awg range.  This Duelund or WE wire is inexpensive to try so, why not?  The connectors can be expensive but if you don't like the result then just take them apart and reuse the connectors on your next experiment.  If you want to pay less than the cost of the Furutech FP-601/602 series, try their FP-705/706 series of connectors, which are also quite good for the money.  

signature8, you twist two of the same type of wire, with or without a core, then connect one wire between pin 2 (positive) at both ends, connect the other wire to pin 3 (negative) at both ends, place a shield around those two wires connected to Pin 1 (ground) only at the source end and then countersprial a ground wire (i.e., in the opposite direction to the two twisted wires inside of the shield) outside of the shield and connect that ground wire to pin 1 at both ends.  You need three total wires per cable run, plus the shield and whatever other materials you use to construct the cable.

Just put back in the only other pair of speaker cables I have that display the same vintage (real sounding) tone that I get from the WE wire and they consist of multiple, 26awg 6N copper wires individually insulated in cotton in a specific geometry on top (HF and MF) and quad connected 16 awg 4N copper in cotton to the LF so the aggregate is 16 awg on top and 13 awg on the bottom.  Being solid core and untinned, they do sound different from the stranded tinned WE wire I have been using (dual 10awg pairs to each speaker) but they have pretty much the same tone and the differences are subtle...maybe a little less warmth and slightly more incisiveness but not quite the fullness provided by the 10 awg WE wires although not lean in any respect.  Trade-offs but very similar tone.  WE wires are back on the Cable Cooker for a tune-up.