I am just curious what is the difference from the Western Electric 16 and 14 ga? |
Mitch
All this wire talk got me to test my Duelund 2.0 vs. standard 12 ga Linn wire.
The shelved down talk is about right.
The harmonic structure is MUCH better preserved with the Duelund. Which I always attributed to stranded copper chopping up the sound. Duelund solid silver does not.
But WE is stranded although only 25 strands (for 16ga) |
Mikirob
The question is why?
I can not say for sure why my Duelund Silver 2.0 sounds good. I can speculate.
Stranded wire sounds all chopped up. The high freq suffers the least. So one might think stranded wire has more "air"
The harmonic structure is very well preserved in solid silver. (better than WE?)
No idea!
The question is why is WE wire so good? The tin? If so you have opened a can of worms? 25 strands? Much less strands than standard tiny stranded wire.
If less strands is better why not one solid? (copper or silver) |
Mikirob
I have been reading Jeff's site on and off for a few years. Remember he went all Duelund crossover after I (and many others) did, went vintage amp after I was there. I had talked to Duelund on this thread about them making autoformers which I suspected could be a weak link. I do not yet have ( I wish Autoformer!) so when Jeff later got a Duelund made Autoformer he of course really had my attention! Then the Silver CAST caps as well.
So yes I consider his tastes will no doubt be similar. Jeff is even looking at a set of Klipschorns so then I will have direct comparison.
I am not at all questioning Jeff, you, Grannyring or Yazaki-san.
I am only asking why? on the WE?
I am sure the wire does sound great!
Plus what it means. Tin! People go to great cost for silver when tin coated wire will do?
This is a pretty big deal! |
On the Western Electric WE 16ga
I was reading the coating (on the wire) is proprietary and so is the Rubber coating?
Someone who did not care for it in the freq extremes said the midrange was AMAZING. (had to do caps as so did they)
It was designed for telephone use?
Trying to understand the science of why this wire is so good. (to many) |
I have some WE coming so I hope MMMV does not apply.
In following Jeff's suspect not. If he gets those Khorns we could end up exactly the same! |
For me WE is not a new direction.
On the (capacitor thread) it was all about hearing a vintage tube amp smoke my (fairly expensive $10k) SS on my existing Alnico Lascala's.
I could not believe it. Real sound as Yazaki-san would say!
Since then all has been in that direction and Duelund Silver 2.0 is not unnatural sounding wire. So the competition is not going to be easy!
It was since the WE was first heard on Khorns and tubes (on Jeff's page) from a guy with Duelund caps and he really liked it peaked my interest.
I know he has heard some substantial improvements with Duelund and if WE is worth talking about as he does it must be something?
We will see! |
|
I thinking got the last of the Red wire on the spool just black left.
I ordered red and black. |
Sounds awful when first hooked up.
Very nasally. (mid rangey sound)
But it does sound very different!
I have a friend who laughs at the notion of hearing a difference in any wire. If he can not hear a difference he needs his ears checked.
Now is it better? Piling on the hours to see. |
Just reading some posts from awhile back and I did not mean to upset anyone.
I have not compared WE against Duelund yet. I am doing the burn in on office system. I do not have a cable cooker like Jeff does. The comparison is vs. stranded copper. WE was at 0 hours and was by no means a end thought on WE.
Once burned in I will move to main system to compare to Duelund Silver.
Sorry I only meant to poke fun at all of us. Some people think we are nuts you know talking about wire. The realiity is you really can hear a difference.
WE is dirt cheap compared to other expensive wire. |
Rob did you cook your wire first?
My comment about sounding bad at 0 hours is raw uncooked wire.
The WE already has improved greatly and again I apologize if the comment upset anyone and even I was not to worried of that being the end result.
I just did not hear anyone else mention it? More of confusion.
My impression at this point is the stranded copper wire comparing it to is muffled.
My focus is the why?
After 100 hours the test will be against Duelund. So this wire is in office system.
When you tell most people we can hear a difference from one wire to another they think we are nuts then you tell them the wire sounds much different at 10 hours then 0 and they are ready to committ us!
Rob I have high hopes this wire for sure sounds different! Just not yet sure what it means and why? |
Brownsfan
I am glad you heard what I did in this wire to begin with.
I have no idea what 100 hours is going to sound like but the improvement is rapid. Will it continue? |
Jetrxpro
Interesting you say that I find the WE wire has strange settling in more than any other wire I have heard?
Rob and Grannyring
As we talked about before this wire could shake many foundations of belief and not just about wire.
Does this mean Silver caps are not better? I only have copper so can not say but many think so...
Why use Silver solder? When wire coated in tin is great? (I can not claim to hearing any solder difference but many can)
Someone mention skin affect being not good with only 25 strands.
Yazaki-san is sending our beliefs for a loop! |
Rob and Grannyring where is the capacitors you are talking about. I think I have found the page but which is the correct ones? |
Rob
You have likely heard more live music than most.
I had mentioned on the other thread that live music does not sound separated to me. That is a HiFi term.
Not that this is bad but I think HiFi created a sound on it's own. (little to do with real sound)
I have always agreed with the timbral listening. That is the highest and hardest level.
You need natural tones and the right amount of resonance to make it happen.
The question with wire is the WE wire a better product (and why) or simply adding life to a dead system? (which is not a bad thing)
Or is the wire somehow better?
I like the sound of the vintage Vishay Ero FOL polyester caps for tone. (as good as Duelund or better in the midrange) The problem is they resonate like crazy! They resonate in the mid range which fills out the sound at that freq..
Resonance though gives in the freq it resonates in and takes away elsewhere. Those caps have poor bass and dynamics so become boring to listen to after awhile. |
Saletric mentions the WE wire as "bright and thin".
My first impression of the WE wire was vintage Vishay ERO FOL capacitors.
I had mentioned in the Cap thread that vintage Vishay had a incredible midrange. (one could say better than Duelund)
The problem is the vintage caps are high resonant parts.
Resonance makes sound come incredibly alive but only the the freq. of the resonant part.
I have moved the WE wire to compare to Duelund Silver 2.0..
I did not know what to think of the vintage Vishay caps and this wire is along the same lines.
I suspect the wire is a high resonant part. Not saying this is bad. If a system has a dull midrange this can elevate bring life to the system.
My copper thin stranded wire is tightly interwoven fine strands. The WE wire does not appear to have tight winding?
The interesting thing is I left one vintage amp which was the best sounding of the lot all vintage until the modded amps were past in all ways. |
In listening to Kind of Blue the first thing I noticed with the WE was the increased amount of tape hiss.
This is always a tell tale sign of resonance.
When the Jupiter Copper Foil caps when in my phono section I was shocked at the noise reduction, just incredible. Jupiter caps are the lowest resonant cap I have heard. (not my favourite cap but lowest noise)
Resonance is not talked about like it should be. |
Rob
There is no problem from me.
I am not a mega $ cable guy my comparisons are against Linn k20 speaker wire and Duelund Silver 2.0 and the WE 16ga.
http://www.linn.co.uk/all-products/accessories/k20-loudspeaker-cable
You have brought what could be a choice for many in a very inexpensive wire that might not be around very long, nothing wrong with that!
The Linn is about the same price as WE and Duelund is 15x as much.
I am not upset to have bought the WE wire.
I was only stating that from the hours on mine it seems to be high resonant part but what is there about the wire to deal with resonance?
The Linn wire is heavy chunk of copper relative to WE. The Duelund is of course solid rectangle Silver.
I for one can not comprehend $20k cables!
For that kind of money one could have top capacitors all through the amp and a top level speaker crossover. To me making 20x the difference of any wire.
I find Duelund to be marginally better than the Linn. (at way more money but worth it) Richer more complex less chopped up.
If the WE wire is better than $20k wire then maybe something wrong with whole industry of $20k cables. |
I did read the insulation is proprietary.
As is the coating on the wire. |
When I first heard the WE 16ga wire my comment was oh vintage vishay ERO Fol II Aluminum foil and Mylar caps.
Those were the vintage caps in my amps.
They were hard to replace in all ways. VERY real midrange.
I suspected Yazaki-san likes that kind of sound.
Then I went on to read about his cap of choice the Arizona Green Cactus.
Guess what paper Aluminum foil in mylar...
I will be curious to hear these. The vintage ones lacked dynamics of Duelund. Just too small. They were all tone. |
Funny the long running capacitor thread was started when I heard vintage paper Aluminum foil and Mylar caps. I had heard tube amps but not like that before!
I was just shocked at how "real" the sound was real people it was not a stereo.
One amp was left stock to see if it could be beat. (that real sound) |
I see the WE wire is available right up to 10ga.
Has anyone tried compared the various WE ga's?
It all appears the same just more strands.
Running the 16ga in two separate systems. (for testing) |
Thanks Mitch
That is kind of what I expected.
When you bulked up on amount of strands did you notice a difference? Particularly bass? |
Mitch
Not to worry on what you hear.
I have not heard Belden IC.
I am trying the WE wire in two systems. Oddly to me it sounds as you describe the Belden IC's?
In my main system all Duelund parts and Duelund wire the WE is clear, ragged and my guess is high resonance part with a midrange centric sound.
The upside to the WE wire if you midrange is not quite right this wire brings life to a system.
I hope I can use it for the office system? |
Hours are piling on and the gap is closing with the Duelund 2.0.
WE is an interesting product. |
Grannyring can you describe the difference from WE16 and WE10? |
