Klipsch Cornwall IV
@donsachs , Hi Don! I started to put together a parts list to modify the crossover caps. I like VCAP much. I've used their CuTFs before. Can you shed some light on where one could cut corners a bit to save cost? The reason I ask is that the mods you did come up to $896 in caps-- All values *2 loudspeakers 2.7 uF $87 2.2 uF $84 6.8 uF $101 1.5 uF $82 4 uF $94 I may do the VCAP ODAMs on 2.7, 2.2 and 6.8 and try something more affordable on the other values. |
Arthur you could just put big woofers in your car and park it in your living room! In my experience you likely don’t have to worry about the size of these in your room. They’re big because they’re efficient, and that’s not representative of the amount of “breathing room” that they need. Very easy to place. Where your tannoys, the older or newer models? I’ve always been intrigued by the tannoys buy I’ve never heard them. Sometimes when I hear a speaker is relaxed or a little dark that usually means the midrange is weak. I’d appreciate your thoughts. |
If I was in the USA I would ask for a good deal and probably get away with 4500+tax for Cornwall IV, however in Switzerland you pay 8k. That’s why I wanted to test them but were too big for my car. I ended up testing them in a demo room, together with Heresy, and I was amazed about how close the heresy came for less than half price. Indeed the Forte were very revealing of bad recordings and placement was difficult because of the radiator! |
Hi No, I am not modding the cabinets at all. Right now I have just damped the horns and woofer frames, and really improved the crossovers with far better parts. If I ever wanted to sell the speakers I have not devalued them in any way, but rather I have improved them. Cutting holes= end of value. I will say that putting ODAM caps in and putting the pathaudio (or other fine resistor I suspect) is a big difference. No never heard a Tannoy of any sort. Right now I need to put the spatial x5 back in at some point and compare. Two completely different solutions, both with their strengths. The Cornwalls are fun and they do pretty much everything right, but they do bottom out at the very, very low end. Really it isn't an issue. I hate subs as they are tough to integrate and there is always the temptation to fool with them, but a pair of subs to just get you 20-40 Hz reinforcement would do it. You hardly need them with the cornwalls, just on a few tracks that have a lot of energy in the really low end. A piano lowest note is 28 Hz as I recall. The X5 integrated subs were perfect. Once the woofer surrounds loosened up I dialed them down a wee bit and never touched them. Clayton has it worked out. Still, as you have discovered, the cornwall IV is just tons of fun and you really have to ask yourself if you need a better speaker. Just enjoy the music and don't worry about it. Put a good tube system in front of them and be happy. If you do bother to improve the crossover parts you will hear it, but they are quite nice stock. |
Don while you are performing your next surgery on these why don’t you cut some ports in the back and see what happens. It would be interesting to hear what some reinforcement would do. Have any of you compared these to a pair of Ardens? I’ve seen the Chev comparisons but it seems the Arden would be the competitor at least in size and specs. |
That pretty much sums up the cornwall IV. Lots of fun, a wee bit bass shy at the very bottom, but you can live with it because the bass is very fast and tuneful. Yes, I would say they run out of steam somewhere in the 35 Hz range. Would have to measure and I really don't want to bother to set up to do it. |
Just an update with probably around 250 hours. I am often times pulled out of my office chair to walk out and listen to these. They are a clear preference for me over the O/93's I owned for 8 months. One thing I look for in a speaker is excitement without fatigue. They have great presence but aren't hyped up in the 2-4k frequency range- that annoys me with many speakers. Strings are starting to really pop out in the room after more break in.. They play big and I can easily listen with peaks in the mid 90db range at listening position with no fatigue or ringing in my ears afterwards. The bass is impressive but I do notice with certain music that the low 30's and 20's are missing. The thing is the bass is really engaging so I'm fine with it. I've owned speakers that played deeper but with less engagement through the ranges, and I became bored with them. Or some speakers you crank for the bass and are screamed at with the mids and highs. These have a way of being relaxed and exciting at the same time, which is rare. Effortless might be the word. So many unique preferences with audio, so my priorities might not be yours. They are big but any speakers take up a certain percentage floor space unless they're cramped. The front port makes them easier to position. I have them toed in so I can barely see the inside edges from the ideal seat. It's been a fun journey so far. |
Jumper and speaker cables related. I have Blue Jean bi-wired banana speaker wires connected between integrated tube amp to CW IV then occasionally switch out to Audio Research LS2 + Parasound A21 to CW IV with two pairs of Taralab Continuum spade speaker wires to the CW IV. Is it okay to leave both speakers connected to both amps but has one amp turned off while running the other? Would it cause any damage to speakers or amp? or create extra impendent and cause other side effect? |
from above: I'd be careful what you wish for with upgrades and parts. I've had several speakers with great parts that made my ears ache or ring when played at much lower than safe levels. Frequency has much more to it than can be easily measured. Trust me, the difference between the stock crossover parts, plus the damping of horns and woofer frames, plus the isolation from the floor on even the cheapo rubberized cork pads.... all of these make the speaker FAR better than the stock one. Not even close to my ear. The stock version is very dynamic, but it is a tad bright. These changes actually improve detail, realism, tone and imaging, and eliminate the brightness. I know people with stock ones don't think they are bright, but they are way better this way and retain all of the things you love about them, and you dont' realize they are bright until you get those cheap caps and and resistors replaced with much better parts. My 2 cents, enjoy your Cornwalls, however they are:). |
Yes, I have the X5 with ODAM caps (I got Clayton to try them) and the Cornwall IV. It is a tough call and I have to put the X5 back in the system in a couple of weeks when the Cornwalls are completely run in with the new caps and resistors. Again, it really depends on what sort of sound you are after. The X5 are just dead accurate and they don't editorialize at all. The bass is phenominal. The Corwalls...horns are fun and these now have all the attributes of horn speakers, and the bad things are gone. First thing I did when I got them was make a set of jumpers for the two rear terminals out of some nice 12 gauge Duelund I had on hand. Never listened to the stock jumper plates.....
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If you have Spatial audio ,the natural evolution is the x3,x5/ they have a horn like wave guide to what many consider the best AMT driver out there this modified Beyma driver has a 7 inch wave guide and does the critical midrange and tweeter with -0 crossover in the signal path ,great 12 inch midBass and powered low Bass from 90 Hz down . Buy the upgraded Xover withThe VH audio Odam capacitors. Great speakers they are on my to do list next year. |
Donsachs Thanks for your feedback. The Corn IV are amazing speakers, stock, once you get at least 50 hours on them, and they really start to open up at around 150 hours. I will eventually change out the caps and resistors, (and dampen the mid and tweeter horns with Dynamat), however I am first going to add in a second pair of Cornwall IV’s and stack them......yes I know, sounds crazy and major league over kill, however one doesn’t know till one tries.....I realize there will be some “Comb Filtering effects”, and imaging may suffer, etc. Should be interesting at the very least .....Anyway again thanks for your work and feedback. CHEERS....... |
💡Sonetime people here make zero cents.I decide not to buy Cornwall by buddy open them and says there no more than $300 part inside. Other guy rebuild whole speaker who just make good speaker with good part? Maggie make good speaker but thinking of slam to make my wife sister dance like maniac when come over. |
After trying a pair of Heresy IVs for a month or so I decided to keep my Heresy IIIs as they're more to my liking, so now I have the dreaded "fear of polyimide" syndrome. The mid drivers in the IIIs are titanium with a far more complex horn throat than the IVs, and I fear the new Cornballs, uh Cornwalls, would lead right into my fears (same with the Forte IV)...although I now have a much larger room to park my gear heap...the Heresy IIIs are doing fine but I had thought about Cornballs...damn...CORNWALLS to make larger sounds...now I think I'll just stay with Heresy IIIs until I get the itch for mo something... |
Again, I can't argue with that, because I haven't heard either of those speakers. It's been a long time since the Epics were designed, and I don't doubt that the Cornwall IV's are superior. I wish that I could afford to find out. Having said that, I'm still surprised to think of how many good speakers I have had that didn't sound as coherent as the Epics. I really think it has something to do with all of the treble and midrange coming out of one horn; and as far as the bass goes, it just breathes better than most other speakers I've owned with the possible exception of the Spendor SP100, which had a good, but different sort of bass. The Nestorovic 5As also had good bass. |
OK, I installed the 30 ohm and 8 ohm pathaudio resistors. I am done and never opening that speaker again! First off, I understand the concepts of confirmation bias and controlled experiments. I have a PhD and have analyzed tons of data. I have also built at least a thousand pieces of tube equipment. I have my ways of evaluating changes with the same 30-40 test tracks. I listen for very specific things in all of them. Yes, the proper experiment would be to have two pairs of Cornwall IV speakers, one modded, one stock. Both connected at the same time and toggle between them. Better yet, have a blindfold on and have someone else toggle for you. Or a mono signal and one speaker modded and one stock or something along those lines. Yeah sure. Who among us can afford two pairs of the same speaker for such an experiment? Who has the room for that sort of experiment in their living room? The pathaudio resistors are not quite as big a change as going to the VCap ODAM caps, but the change is quite audible and almost as large. Same things, a little more 3D imaging, but the slightly bright character of the original sand resistor is apparent upon removing it! The pathaudio resistors sound more natural, no brightness, just music. Definitely more clarity and again, no brightness to achieve that clarity. So like the cap change, the speaker is more natural sounding, images slightly better, and there is not a hint of brightness. Just insane levels of detail and punch. You would not really think the stock speaker is bright until you change the caps and resistors in the crossover. I could never go back. I am not changing inductors. First I don't know the values, second the speaker is voiced with that sort of inductor and they all sound different. Honestly, the speaker is amazingly good right now and I have no desire to fool with it again. If you really want to go for it, change the speaker terminals and improve the contact between the wiring and the terminals. You could play with inductors if you were inclined, but I am not. This speaker is a FAR better speaker than the stock one to my ear. Not even close. It retains all of the things you like about the stock one, but it sounds so much more like music. The Spatial Audio X5 speakers I have also have a VCap ODAM that replaced the Miflex. They are wonderful. I will eventually put them back in the system and evaluate the difference again, but the Cornwalls need another 100 hours or more to be certain the woofers are completely run in and the ODAM caps take 100-200 hours to really run in as well. Again see my comments earlier in the thread. Different speakers for people seeking different things. This last mod with the pathaudio resistors just pushed the Cornwall IV way in how realistic the presentation of instruments and voices are. That is the strength of the X5, so the comparison will be interesting. Again, I am NOT telling you to modify your crossovers. You will certainly void your warranty. I cannot possibly go back to stock though.... Let's just say if the people who have published reviews of the Cornwall IV had modded the crossovers their jaws would have dropped..... The guys on the Klipsh forum who attacked me for even wanting the schematic and considering messing with their "perfect speakers"... well they can listen to theirs and I can listen to mine. If you could flip a switch on theirs and turn the into these I seriously doubt any of them would go back.....unless they are deaf |
lrdrootman said: "The only klipsch speakers that can give Cornwall IV run is KLIPSCH EPIC CF4 but it was made through 1994-1996" I don't know that to be a fact, because I have never heard the Cornwall IV, but they are the best speakers that I have ever owned, and easily showed the door to a pair of JBL Array 1400's that I bought when they came out. I plan on having the crossovers redone later this year. |
Yes to mods!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Other things besides changing caps and resistors that can be done that will transform the speaker: 1. Change all coils in the mids and highs to large gauge air core coils......foil sounds best. Go into the inside of the coil and out the outside for best sound. Klipsch uses all iron core coils.....not good. 2. Get rid of all connections. Hardwire the wires from the xover to the tabs on the mid and high drivers and hardwire directly to the voice coil wire on the woof. Do my binding post bypass system on the input of the speaker...see http://tweakaudio.com/EVS-2/EVS_1200_amplifier.html for large pic. Do not use the stock speaker terminal jumpers.....bi wire for best sound or use cryoed OFC wire for jumper. You always want your speaker wire to go directly to the mid high terminal for most transparent sound. 3. Damp the midrange and tweeter horns. There is a video online of someone doing this and the sonic benefits. For those wild types.....how about time aligning.....Remove the mid and tweeter horn from the speaker.....turn the speaker upside down so the woofer is on the top and stack the mid and tweeter horns on top of the box and line up the voice coils of all three drivers.....use felt to keep the tweeter output from bouncing off the mids. The crossover was designed for non time aligning so it may have to be tweaked......this would be a big boy mod. Many of the big horn speakers time align their drivers. Of course, there are speaker box beefing mods, adding Ground Enhancers directly to the speaker ground terminals....etc. etc. to infinity. |
