Just a tip for those of you who have invested in power conditioners:
Keep things which generate noise outside of your clean zone.
Power conditioners, unless fully active, are just filters. They are not magic blessing devices. What I mean is that the power that comes in gets filtered, and sent out, but it can be contaminated again! It’s just like your water supply. Makes no sense to use fancy water filters, and storing it in a dirty bucket.
If you can, avoid using wall warts, and network devices like Wifi routers, switches, video streamers etc. on the clean side of your conditioner because they will contaminate the already filtered power. If you have a conditioner with multiple zones, put all your noisy neighbors on the same dirty zone.
I try to solve this by using a less expensive but still very good power strip to create a "de-militarized zone." DMZ for short. The Furman PST-8 is a great way to do this, because it does include really good filtering which goes down to about 3 kHz.
Plug it directly into the wall, not into your conditioner. This will give you the most number of filters between your wall warts and your audio. Of course, other alternatives are to use linear power supplies exclusively, but even then, anything with a network or CPU in it can generate noise that makes it through the power supply.
Lots of other conditioners will work, of course, the Furman with SMP just has great noise handling and ~ $120 is much more affordable than alternatives.
Whatever you do, keep your noisy neighbors outside your clean zone.
If you can, avoid using wall warts, and network devices like Wifi routers, switches, video streamers etc. on the clean side of your conditioner because they will contaminate the already filtered power.
Yeah, no, it doesn’t work like that. Not even close.
First, because there is no "zone". Look at my system for example. https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/8367 Where is the "clean power zone"? Can you show me? Is it after the power conditioner? Or is it after the step down transformer? Maybe its after the breaker panel? No? Maybe its the electric meter? Because I have tracked the thing back to the point of using tweaks on the meter box and it works just as well there as everywhere else along the entire power path from that point on. Which is to say all of it. So where exactly is this imaginary zone then?
Second way its nothing like you say, I can disconnect or turn off breakers going to other rooms and hear an improvement. I can put contact enhancers and outlet plugs on stuff in another room clear across the house and still hear the same improvement as when they are used right in the room or even on unused outlets right on my conditioner. So that ones bunk too.
And finally, no wall warts after the conditioner? Have you looked at my system? Have you looked at ANY SYSTEM?! We're gonna get real basic now. Because what is a wall wart, anyway? Did you ever stop to ask yourself that question? A wall wart is nothing but a very simple power supply. Its a transformer, couple diodes, maybe a cap or two. That’s it.
Now please do not take my word for it. Open one up and have a look for yourself. Then do the same with ANY component in your system. Because if you look at ANY COMPONENT in ANY SYSTEM you will find EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM has a transformer, diodes, and caps.
Still, in fairness, don’t only knock, also be positive. Point out the stuff the guy got right. DMZ is indeed short for de-militarized zone. Well done.
And finally, no wall warts after the conditioner? Have you looked at my
system? Have you looked at ANY SYSTEM?! We're gonna get real basic now.
Because what is a wall wart, anyway? Did you ever stop to ask yourself
that question? A wall wart is nothing but a very simple power supply.
Its a transformer, couple diodes, maybe a cap or two. That’s it.
Oh Miller, how your legs must cramp after your knee jerks that hard. I'd reply to this with facts and information, but like a petulant child, you wait for me to post something, say something negative and then run away.
You are the best proof of my importance int his forum, and I am so grateful.
I agree to a certain extent....for instance moving my router 10 feet away from my rack made a huge difference. The problem is you can't keep your audio components outside of your "clean" zone. So much of the noise that is generated is coming straight from your gear itself.....toroidal transformers etc... Isolation helps and rack placement can be very important in some instances...for me it was lengthy trial and error to find a quiet spot for my SUT.
A while ago I did indeed move all of my lesser powered goodies like internet switch, Wal warts for head amp etc to a simple powerstrip that is plugged into a regular duplex that is seperate from the main audio feed line.
Works for me. Is there room for improvement? I am sure there is and sometimes you just don't know what noise you actually had until you remove it!
Always someone will say they don't have a noise problem, I never thought I did. Until I worked on it.
Got a PM just now, so good I have to share it in its entirety:
Miller, nice system BTW. Stop the posting on this Erik Squires dude. He is a joke and it seems he just keeps posting threads about nothing. Don’t waste your time anymore. I have stopped myself from posting on his threads. He knows absolutely nothing. AND he has people who follow him, one guy I met. You cannot win this battle. To many nobodies who know nothing about audio systems support the guy.
Quote from Miller Carbon, ‘Got a PM just now, so good I have to share it in its entirety:
Miller, nice system BTW. Stop the posting on this Erik Squires dude. He is a joke and it seems he just keeps posting threads about nothing. Don’t waste your time anymore. I have stopped myself from posting on his threads. He knows absolutely nothing. AND he has people who follow him, one guy I met. You cannot win this battle. To many nobodies who know nothing about audio systems support the guy.
Anyway all the best to you.
Factual, tight, well-reasoned, compelling.
Bye!’
Dude, that is below the belt. FWIW.. i admire your devotion and you are super knowledgable no doubt. Much respect. But in the famous words of Rodnay ‘Can’t we all just get along?’
Yeah, no, it doesn’t work like that. Not even close.
First, because there is no "zone". Look at my system for example. https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/8367 Where is the "clean power zone"? Can you show me? Is it after the power conditioner? Or is it after the step down transformer? Maybe its after the breaker panel? No? Maybe its the electric meter? Because I have tracked the thing back to the point of using tweaks on the meter box and it works just as well there as everywhere else along the entire power path from that point on. Which is to say all of it. So where exactly is this imaginary zone then?
Second way its nothing like you say, I can disconnect or turn off breakers going to other rooms and hear an improvement. I can put contact enhancers and outlet plugs on stuff in another room clear across the house and still hear the same improvement as when they are used right in the room or even on unused outlets right on my conditioner. So that ones bunk too.
And finally, no wall warts after the conditioner? Have you looked at my system? Have you looked at ANY SYSTEM?! We're gonna get real basic now. Because what is a wall wart, anyway? Did you ever stop to ask yourself that question? A wall wart is nothing but a very simple power supply. Its a transformer, couple diodes, maybe a cap or two. That’s it.
Now please do not take my word for it. Open one up and have a look for yourself. Then do the same with ANY component in your system. Because if you look at ANY COMPONENT in ANY SYSTEM you will find EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM has a transformer, diodes, and caps.
Still, in fairness, don’t only knock, also be positive. Point out the stuff the guy got right. DMZ is indeed short for de-militarized zone. Well done.
Yeah, actually it can work like that.
Not long ago I had the exact problem Eric was referencing, with a streaming device's wall-wart smps causing noise that bled into my phono preamp. Some wall warts (the heavy ones) are indeed just a linear PS in a plastic case, others are SMPS and usually the culprit of circuit pollution.
This makes me think of the guy who commented here, after seeing my set-up, that I had too much cluttered together. I took that as meaning the clutter was visually unsettling, but having read Erik’s comment, I’m thinking now that he might have been referring to noise being generated by the proximity of several pieces of electronic equipment (though I guess he might also have been referring to reflections?).
I have two Furman’s below on that same table, each plugged into the same wall outlet. One has all 8 outlets (4 are filtered and 4 unfiltered) with all 8 having something plugged into it; the other has 2 devices plugged into its 6 outlets (so far). I hadn’t even thought if this whole arrangement I have might be introducing noise — but I’m not sure what I do about it if it is (that being the only nearby outlet). Interesting topic.
bob540 This makes me think of the guy who commented here, after seeing my set-up, that I had too much cluttered together. I took that as meaning the clutter was visually unsettling, but having read Erik’s comment, I’m thinking now that he might have been referring to noise being generated by the proximity of several pieces of electronic equipment (though I guess he might also have been referring to reflections?).
>>>>>There is a third and more mysterious reason, gentle readers, why clutter is bad for the sound. I don’t wish to appear messianic or overly mysterious but think of it like Feng Shui. Having an organized and uncluttered space is good for everything, you can also think of it as minimizing entropy. Especially bad for sound - and I’d don’t mean to be ironic here - are CDs, magazines, books, newspapers, LPs, videos, and extra unused electronics and cables you might have lying around. Even musical instruments. How’s that for irony?
Wow, I guess you could say that my whole life is cluttered (I blame my mother, who always told me, “Save everything. You never know when it will come in handy!” . . . . “Yes, Mother”. It was my father who showed me that saving too much, such that nothing can be located and put back, can be as bad as never saving anything.
Fortunately, I am not as bad as Mother was (after she passed and we went through her belongings, we found a utility bill from 1949!), but I am indeed bitten. I even save old buttons, in hopes that one day I will find the missing shirts or compatible ones. I have tried to fight back against my thoughts that, “Just when I throw this away, I will find out what it goes to and will kick myself.” And, every once in a while, I do find out what the thing belonged to and restore it to its rightful location, and for that moment everything feels right with the world.
Had to drop by for a moment just to say.... First some special snowflake gets triggered and of course mini-Mao removes the post. But too late, another one triggered, copied and pasted the whole thing. So its still up there for you all to read the truth about yourselves. Which includes such a lack of self-awareness you leave that post up. Hilarious.
If one of you would now be kind enough to copy and paste this one, so its up even after it gets removed (which, Kafkaesque, look it up) that would be ROTFLMFAO hilarious!
Miller You should have stayed in your ’end of the world’ bunker, counting your cans of beans and bottles of Purell with all your friends instead of once again displaying that sparkling personality. I’m guessing you built a one man shelter......
E and helomech are quite correct in appending SMPS to Wall wart. Get them on a different leg of your panel IF possible. You can try this w long extension cord and as E says an inexpensive PC
the Point about mostly analog devices being self polluted is quite accurate- ARC and Aesthetix both recognized this and make the display defeatable - quite audible.
finally to help answer Miller’s question about where the clean/ dirty line is - anybody who puts a resonant tonearm in a corner on purpose has no clean line...
Might have been. Honestly the amp though did not hold up. The 2 Parasound A21s I had were a lot better.
That's the other thing, as much as I got rid of, I still had an Oppo BD player, 2 Parasound A21s and a plethora of Class D amps, Focal profiles, and was making my own, and a pair of Monitor Audio profile speakers.
Actually, I heard Azerbaijan was a hotbed of jazz! They recently held the annual Baku Jazz Jamboree. They even had a Miles Davis lookalike contest..... Or was it a turnip festival....... I get those two confused.
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