Is it worth upgrading a CD player?

@side22olto "I’ve ripped my CDs to Apple Lossless."

Okay then does this mean that you don’t want a CD transport or another CD player to use as a transport to see if you will get better SQ than the CD player you have and supposedly use as a transport.  May well just be me but I’m now confused about what you are after

Apple lossless is compressed. CD transport will most likely sound better.

@facten, May well just be me but I’m now confused about what you are after

Yes, what is the goal?

Charles

@side22olto,

If you want the best bang for your buck, keep your player. The spinner and laser are good.  But I would get a good DAC and a digital interconnect. So much has changed in fourteen years with DAC’s it crazy. Then if you want to go farther, you can start looking at CDT’s.

All the best.

@charles1dad - Thanks for the recommendations and links to reviews.

My DAC situation has changed from what is posted on my system page. In fact, I just sold the EVO B4B21 but I added the EVO PRO, which is a subtle improvement in refinement and resolution, and everything else that improving those attributes brings. In addition, I just added Benjamin’s top Mystique X SE DAC and it is still breaking in, by playing music and Ayre’s frequency sweeps on repeat. The X SE is another level of resolution and I am hoping not too much for me. The detail it displays is extraordinary yet it does retain the musicality and tone that Benjamin’s DACs are known for. I plan to let it settle in before coming to any conclusions about which I like best. One thing is for sure, they are both excellent sounding DACs.

@mitch2 

Well, congratulations on acquiring the new DAC. A further step upwards? Even more of a reason for an upper tier CD transport such as the CDT3 MK III if you decide to spin CDs. 😊

Charles

I’m getting a lot of comments re. streaming, which I already do, and about getting a DAC, which I already have, but for clarification, my question is whether an upgraded CD player/transport is worth the investment when I want to physically play a CD and sit and listen to it. I think from all the comments it’s clear that it won’t be a night and day difference so I’ll stick with what I have and if it ever packs in, I’ll look at getting a dedicated CD transport. Thanks again for all the comments and feedback!

@side22olto 

I think that’s a good decision at this point. I don’t believe that at your current budget limit you’d achieve a “night and day “ difference. A significant improvement is possible but in my opinion would require an upper tier quality dedicated  CD transport as mentioned earlier in this discussion.

Charles

@charles1dad 

+1 well said, I agree. 

Good decision @side22olto 

When I started this thread I was happy with my CDP, after reading these posts now I want a new one, so many good ideas.

New cable would be simpler/cheaper...🔧

I am with those that suggest the transport route. 

I believe you can purchase the Audiolab from Audio Advisor or the Cambridge CXC (which I own and enjoy) from Crutchfield with a 30 day trial. Choice comes down to slide (CXC) vs. slot mechanism (Audiolab). You own an Audiolab DAC so that may also drive your choice.

I believe you can purchase the Audiolab from Audio Advisor or the Cambridge CXC....

The CXC gets a lot of love here.  I wish I had bought the original version when they could be had for around $300, hard to find now.  There is a new version over on usaudiomart now for a little less than $600.

@jbuhl   Aside from the price , the only difference between the original and the current version is the look of the casework

Cambridge semi regularly sells refurbished CXC at great price on eBay 

If like me, you have a large CD/SACD collection, then there may be an advantage to updating your CD/SACD player. About a year or so ago I bought the Marantz SA-KI RUBY SACD/CD Player and DAC. It meets all my needs and expectations and then some, being a superb DAC and CD transport in addition to an excellent stand alone player. And it doesn’t hurt that it is built like a tank! For me, it’s an end-game player that I will pass down to my kids (along with my CD/SACD collection) when I am no longer around. Regardless of your preferences, I hope you and all the folks on this forum will continue to enjoy the music! Also, Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

After finishing my 3 arm TT setup, I decided to go for a better sounding SACD/CD player.

Not interested in a separate DAC, but a great sounding player. OMG, I went thru many players, until I found a vintage Sony xa5400es. Asked, and many here loved theirs

https://positive-feedback.com/Issue47/sonyscdxa5400es.htm

I am re-discovering my many CDs, even buying used CDs, it’s that good.

My point is: in your case a transport and separate DAC has to be as good as a great sounding CD player. You have the option od a great sounding player and a separate DAC for streaming.

Using a good DAC and CD transport will make a difference.

The accuracy of the data stream to the DAC is very important. The comments suggesting otherwise may not be the best advice. However, if you can not hear the difference why bother.

If you can hear the difference then spending your money wisely is a good plan. I would suggest using a belt drive CD transport is worth the money. The performance will beat the direct drive.

I am not a fan of the Chinese knockoff's.

I would also like to point out that I am the CEC distributor in the Americas. Follow the link for more information.

@vthokie83 @mitch2 @charles1dad  I an considering the Jays two transports as well.  The digital cable is also important to consider in separates.  Not just any cable will do (unless maybe it's a balanced digital cable).  

The Project transport is only 6 lbs and requires another $800 linear power supply to make it outstanding per reviews.  The Jays looks so good and has the option of an improved clamp, transport springs...for about $400.  The question I have is the quality of Jays regulators, power supply caps, filter caps, etc.  Are they lower quality computer grade or better/top grade audiophile types?   Can they be made better?

I've gone through over a dozen transports for my three $3K to $9K DACs I tried (and kept 1).   I upgraded the caps and regulators in most.  All with IEC power cables (my high end A/C cables).  The Cambridge (sorry) was among the worst.  Maybe the Audiolab is better but an Emotiva CD player (2 and 4 tested) bested the Cambridge by a large margin (latter was thin sounding, minimal bass and minimal depth).  The PS Audio latest transport was also a no-show.  Great concept but not good sounding (bad execution-possibly the fault of the tranport itself).  

I am currently using a very souped up Philips CDM9 transport unit which has new power, filter caps, regulators, etc.  It just sounds great but is long in the tooth, could fail anytime (1 unit had a blown fuse resistor on the power board with floated diodes-trying to repair it).  

I also played with many digital cables.  I ended with Synergistic Research Atmosphere X Euphoria SPDIF/RCA for $1500.  Just great!!!  Ate up all the others.

Second SR cable I've tried (Foundation digital first). 

I don't recommend the Foundation series unless you try it with your system first.  It had a weird frequency response, warm bass, full mids with instruments going in and out, peaky (not shrill) highs with virtually no soundstage/depth.  

@fleschler

1. Yep, the Pro-Ject RS2T definitely has a small form factor as intended for the smaller footprint goal. It is supplied with a wall wart SMPS. They offer an optional LPS or one can purchase another brand of LPS.

All I can pass along to you is, this transport has fabulous sound quality. Yes, even with the SMPS. I did purchase an external LPS and it did improve further. IMHO the RS2T is a terrific CD transport as numerous reviews have attested. However, I understand it just may not be for you. No single component/product will please everyone, that’s for sure.

2. I do believe that the Jays Audio transports would be an excellent choice for you. Earlier in this thread (11/14) I posted a link to reviews of the Jay’s audio CDT3 MK III. In the Hifi Advice review comparisons are made between the CDT3 MK III and their CDT2 MK III.

The flagship CDT3 MK III is considered the clearly better transport, granted at 2x the cost. A number of factors were given as to why this is so. Given what you are seeking, I believe their flagship model is what you are looking for. I strongly suspect you would be very happy with this choice. If the RS2T didn’t exist, I would own the CDT3 ML III.

Best wishes

Charles

I have had a Rega CD player for 30 years. The remote died a decade or more ago. Otherwise still going strong and with the little rubber thingy that I put on the CD itself when I use it, I have found no reason to upgrade.

caveat: I own about 400 CDs and 5,500 LPs.

Try the Border Control Dac , Well made 1ST rate service , Very nice sound  2 grand your set

@charles1dad Thank you. Have you heard the Jay’s Audio CDT3Mk2 or Mk3? How does it compare with the Project is what I want to know. For a short time, Steve Guttenberg/Youtube preferred the Project to the CDT2Mk2, then did a newer video just extolling the virtues of the CDT2Mk3 as I recall. What is it that would make the CDT3Mk2 or 3 at least equivalent to the Project unit. I could buy either but prefer the sonically better unit. Thanks.

Just saw this Youtube  He states Hi, its a customers drive who has the QStab RST...Projekt with LPS comes close but has no OCXO clock...but its way to expensive...cheers Mike He thinks that the Project is overpriced considering it's cheap power supply which he acknowledged can be upgraded and lack of extra clock.  Still not a clear cut answer.

@fleschler

I understand, it’s High End audio and everyone has an opinion. Invariably someone will prefer one or the other. There will never be an universal consensus. This is why I advocate either CD transport. I haven’t heard the Jay’s Audio transports but trust opinions of Agon members who have. You’ll have no difficulty finding listeners praising either Jay’s or RS2T.

I don’t happen to agree with the “over priced” opinion, but that’s me. The RS2T offers the lowest entry price to get the Stream Unlimited CD Pro-8:Blue Tiger servo integrated drive unit.to get in other transports

1Aqua Audio Diva II (Current version) about10K

2 Acustic Arts Drive II about 17K

3 Gryphon ETHOS CD player 35K.

Jay’s Audio uses the very fine but out of production Phillips drive mechanism. I am not saying that the more expensive transports (Using Stream Unlimited) don’t offer additional feature/factors. But that Drive unit is a very important and vital piece of the sonic picture. BTW sound quality is excellent with the supplied SMPS. It’s just that good as it is, it can be further improve with a good LPS. This is what I did.

I believe if I owned a Jay’s Audio CD transport I’d be very pleased with it. Particularly their flagship CDT3 MK III. I do not believe that there is only one path to excellent CD sound. I just happen to know based on my own experience the RS2T is one way to get there among others. Agon member wig has owned the CDT2 MK III and has the RS2T. You should email him via this site.

Bottom line is I don’t believe you could go wrong with either transport, either is capable of making you happy in my opinion.

Charles

@charles1dad Thank you for your knowledge. I didn’t know anything about the Project transport mechanism which apparently is used in three high cost (high end) units.

The primary reason that my extreme modified Arcam Delta units sound good is their Philips CDM 9 transports (Jays uses a cheaper version curved CDM 4 for the CDT2 and straight line CDPRO2 LF modified for the CDT3).

It is probably why my living room Kyocera CDP sounds so good with it’s ceramic chassis spacers/guide shafts and sapphire spindle for the transport. Not as good as my separates though.

Have you heard any CDPs that compare at under $10K or above to your system? Such as the Luxman 03X, Accuphase DP450 (or more expensive DP550), Audio Note 4.1 (expensive too), Ayon CD10 or CD 35 II. Could it be better purchasing an equally good or better sounding CDP for $4K to $15K than adding a $5k transport to my system or are symbiotic matched separates (like yours) better in the same price range?

I grew up with analog for over 45 years before serious digital sound consideration. It’s only been 17 years when I bought an EAR Acute that I appreciated CDs (yet I now have 7,000). It’s only been 3 years that I purchased digital separates and this year found a great cable and all round good sounding transport.

Have you heard any CDPs that compare at under $10K or above to your system? Such as the Luxman 03X, Accuphase DP450 (or more expensive DP550), Audio Note 4.1 (expensive too), Ayon CD10 or CD 35 II. Could it be better purchasing an equally good or better sounding CDP for $4K to $15K than adding a $5k transport to my system or are symbiotic matched separates (like yours) better in the same price range?

This is a list of really good contenders. Of your list I’ve only heard the Audio Note and Ayon but under audio show conditions in single brand system format. You could not make a bad choice with any of these. High quality CD player is a fine alternative to separate transport-DAC arrangement. You have very good options with your given budget.

Ayon and Audio Note take decidedly different paths to design and approach. I do not know which philosophical camp you adhere to (oversampling/up sampling vs NOS/No digital filtering), but both succeed in their own ways. I like the flexibility separate transport and DAC allow. In terms of sound quality, I do not believe there is a penalty if one chooses a CD player if it is high quality.

You have a very large CD collection and I’m sure that many of them are cherished. It makes perfect sense to want a top-quality CD playback system to fully appreciate them. So, an upper tier CD player or separates. Either will deliver for you.

Charles

Bro, save your money, you won’t notice an epiphany or rapture , or when yo u press play , the seas will part to let yo u listen as you walk through. 
 

 Save money. 
I will put my aging elite dv-79avi against many of the listed CD players 

us also, analog, didn’t get into cd players til almost 1990, as they were too darn expensive , plus I could buy the tape for a lot less, even the records were affordable in 84(. 
 

I would love to buy the new releases of my fav bands these days, the extortion from the companies is astronomical!  Posses me off something I.  Especially for a collector of metal stuff. 1 lp would cost me 30-35$. No thank you, I wait a week and buy a used cd.  I remember buying my very first Venom 7” BLOODLUST, still have the purple 7”.  3.50. 

@arcticdeth Thank you.  I tried a Pioneer elite dv-59avi as a transport after upgrading caps in 2020.  It was mediocre as a CD player and transport.  Just one of 15+ transports I tried from the PS-Audio down to the Cambridge (Pioneer was slightly above).  

@charles1dad Well, I really appreciate knowing that they are all good choices.  If only I could try them in my system without paying for them first.  The two that have opposite technologies don't bother me and I've known about them.  My Benchmark HDR1 DAC uses asynchronous oversampling which maybe part of way it sounds good once radically upgraded ($400+ in parts alone, regulators at $50 each versus the computer grade 50¢ ones inside).  One thing, the Jays Audio transports are rarely is found used in the U.S. and I could try one and if it didn't fit the bill, I could sell it for less than a $500 loss.  I live in Los Angeles and dealers just don't want to lend out CD players or transports (they rarely have good ones) on a trial basis.  I'd pay for shipping to the East Coast for trial purposes.  My best friend also would like to hear the Luxman 03X for himself as he does not want separates (and has a more limited budget).  

Among my CDs are about 2,000 which are not going to be streamed (1000 Marston, Romophone and Biddulph CDs alone, ethnic and minor label/limited distribution labels).  Same with my LP collection with 5,000+ LPs never to be streamable (or most of my 78s).   Yes, many are cherished CDs.  

@fleschler 

Yep! It would be a wonderful situation if we could audition components that interest us in our homes prior to purchase. Just isn’t possible with all of them. If you have any interest in the Pro-Ject RS 2T, you could get it from an online seller like Audio Advisor /Music Direct with a 30 day trial period and judge for yourself.

The flagship Jay’s Audio CDT3 MK III seems like it could be a really fine transport. Given your vast experience with CD players/transports and your methodical approach I believe that you’ll acquire the right choice for you. I’m having a new DAC built for me now (In Ukraine) an Abbas Audio 3.2SE. I’m really looking forward to pairing it with the splendid RS2T.

Charles

fleschler

The Pioneer Elite DV-50AVi makes for a better DVD player. Its partner the AVi79 is geared more for CD playback. Go for the Luxman 03x. It is a very fine CD player.

Happy Listening!

DV-59AVi : corrected.

Fleschler,

At $500 the Audiolab is a great unit, and I am completely happy with it in my $15,000 system.....but from the sound of it, your system is higher end. For the money it can't be beat. It's easy to find on sale, you could try it and see if it works for you and return it if not. Some people may not like the fact that it is a slot loader, but the loader works really well.

Is the Jay's CD2 MkIII at $2,500 5X times better than the Audiolab?.....of course not. However one look inside will show the CD2 is the better made unit, and is clearly audibly the better unit. It is also a top loader which some/most will prefer, and adds adds I2S and AES/EBU inputs which the Audiolab does not have....big, heavy, sturdy

The Jay's CD3 at $5,000 is clearly the better built transport with very high quality components....beautiful inside. Sound wise it is the best CD transport or CD player I have ever heard by a good margin, and it adds more inputs than the CD2.....I was amazed at it's weight.....gotta be over 40 pounds

Bottom line: when I have the funds available, I will be buying one of the Jay's CD transports.....I might recommend the CD3 MkII, as I don't think it would be a limiting factor in your system.

My best friend just sent me another transport only unit to consider, the NuPrime CDT-10 for about $2,250 weighing in at 9.9 lbs.

What I find disconcerting is the conversion of the initial data stream is achieved by up-sampling to mega hertz before down converting to one of 13 selectable sampling rates for the CD format to higher sampling rates. Did they just plug in a chip which they programmed to alter sampling rates? This sounds like something is wrong to begin with.

Does anyone have experience with this unit? The ad copy is great, but how good is it musically, compared to Project and Jay’s?

@fleschler

What I find disconcerting is the conversion of the initial data stream is achieved by up-sampling to mega hertz before down converting to one of 13 selectable sampling rates for the CD format to higher sampling rates. Did they just plug in a chip which they programmed to alter sampling rates?

I am of the same mindset. I just want a high quality well thought out transport to play the native/original signal to the best of its ability. I’m not interested or attracted to any up sampling/manipulation/algorithms/digital filtering alternatives.
 

I understand that others find this approach desirable and seek it. To each their own. Many options are available for whatever one may want.

Charles

Go for the Luxman 03-X. Thank me later.

Happy Listening!

In my opinion, if you have a large collection of CDs, then yes! I would upgrade. Something to consider is to burn to something like a bluesound HD or innuous HD burner player if you have the $$$$$$. The burners sound really nice and you have all your CDs at your finger tips. You should get a good DAC in my opinion. My DAC is half the cost of the HD burner /player.

How much time will it take to upload 7,000 CDs?   That maybe the bigger issue.

My best friend is interested in purchasing the best sounding CD player for under $4,000.  He considered the Luxman 03X and now the Bryston CDP3.  The latter has a similar or same drive as the Project and the other aforementioned high end CDP from StreamUnlimited.  It is also a CD only dedicated player.  Has anyone heard this player?  He is friends with a Bryston dealer and can buy it for 40% off.  

@fleschler 

could you provide a link? I didn’t know that Bryston had a top loader CD transport. I see their BCD-3 dedicated tray mechanism transport. The Stream Unlimited CD Pro-8 drive is a top loading unit. If Bryston has adapted this, that’s terrific news!
Charles 

Yes, I noticed that too but the transport is made by Stream Unlimited.  Bryston states that it is a professional model transport.  I don't know anything else about it, how it compares with the top loaders.  

Stream Unlimited does manufacturer top loaders and tray loaders. I was just referencing the top loading  CD Pro-8 drive unit specifically as it’s also selected by Gryphon and others. I have no doubt that the well respected Bryston utilizing the Stream Unlimited mechanism is exceptionally good.

The key thing, in common with other top-flight CD transports is its dedication to CD playback only. There’s no attempt to be a jack of all trades multi media utility. Just strict and focused attention to Redbook CD. I bet that this dedicated Bryston is excellent.

Charles

Just found another high end player using the StreamUnlimited JPL-2800 transport which the Bryston CDP3 uses, the DCS Rossini.  It's not the CD Pro-8:Blue Tiger top loader.  Could it be equally good?  Apparently the Optics and Traverse are the same and it is a Tiger version.  Here are the available details I found:https://www.suos-hifi.com/ and https://www.suos-hifi.com/_files/ugd/a83b4d_bd03da721f94481582667f1ab980f2c5.pdf 

@charles1dad It seems to me that Srajan did a review a couple of months ago of the Jays CDT3 Mk.3 and a new Jays DAC. If I recall correctly, the upshot of it all is that he was favorably impressed with the DAC but the transport was meh compared to the CDT2 Mk.3. By meh I mean that he heard very little soundwise to justify its twice price. I’m sure others see it differently.

BTW, I contacted Felix Jirousek at SU to get a list of all currently available transports using the CD8 and it turns out that Audionet is also making one (the Plank). What may be obvious to you but was not to me was that it turns out that not all CD8 equipped drives are fitted with the Blue Tiger 84 servo.I’m pretty sure the Aqua uses a different servo, for instance. How big a deal that would be I cannot even guess.

Hi @acresverde

If there is one consistent aspect to high end audio, it’s differing opinions and impressions of audio products. It does not matter how much praise or accolades are heaped on a product, invariably there will be someone with a contrasting view/experience.

Ebaen will honestly report what he hears, his specific verdict. Christiaan Punter of HiFi advice.com reviewed both also. In his opinion, the Jay’s Audio CDT3 MK III was clearly superior he believed. Who’s right? Both are in my opinion as it is all purely subjective.

I have not heard either of the Jay’s Audio CD transports. Yet I believe both are terrific options. Based on what I’ve been able to gather, I would think that the flagship CDT3 MK III is higher performing due in part to the higher quality Phillips drive mechanism compared to the CDT2 MK III.

With regard to the Stream Unlimited CD Pro-8 top loading drive mechanism , it’s finding its way into some upper tier transports. Based on my own experience, I certainly understand why. It’s fabulous as implemented in the Pro-Ject RS2T.

Charles

Audionet has replaced the Phillips Pro-2 drive (Out of production for quite some time) with as @acresverde noted the Stream Unlimited CD Pro-8 drive unit

Current Accustic Art CD transport has adapted the CD Pro-8

DRIVE II highlights

• Audiophile reference CD transport in top-loader design
• High-Class CD mechanism (CD-Pro8) with heavy die-cast metal frame and involved mechanical decoupling, embedded in a 

The Punter review of the Jay's Audio CDT3Mk3 specifically states that it achieves superiority with different footers, in his example, the Stillpoints Ultras. SS V2.  I use the SS V1 under my pre-amp/phono-pre and my Bryston Bit-20 isolation transformer.  It is the best under my pre-amp after auditioning over 12 isolation companies devices and the Stillpoints Ultra-minis.  For an extra $900, it appears to be worth the cost for the CDT3Mk3.  

@fleschler

For an extra $900, it appears to be worth the cost for the CDT3Mk3.

Agree with this mindset. If you are going to commit to a high quality audio component then you may as well try to extract its fullest potential. Addressing vibration and resonance management is wise in my opinion.

ps, you auditioned 12 different isolation products? Whew! That’s a lot.😊

Charles