Is it worth upgrading a CD player?

I don't think it would be much improvement unless you spent $$$ on a dedicated player without a dac inline (black ice audio cdp, marantz sacd/cdp, etc)

Actually there is considerable difference between a CD transport (what you are using your Marantz as) and dedicated transports. I have and use regularly an Audiolab 6000. A transport on devise. I have 3 very good CDP’s - used as a transport alone the Audiolab is ’better’ than any of them, however when used as a CDP they sound much better. If you are happy with your present DAC I would simply upgrade your ’transport’ to something like the Audiolab. Cambridge has a pretty good one as well. Personally I would investigate getting a good DAC and Transport.

To answer your basic question about the level of improvement I would say this depends on your level of listening skills and the importance to you of the differences you might hear in new stuff. If you are presently happy with what you have, why change, just continue to enjoy your music.

Big difference as @newbee stated. Look for a slightly used Bel Canto CD3t, compact, and built like a tank. I have one and love it. Love the small footprint and big sound even though most my CD's are now on my Innuos Statement. 

@newbee

+1

Transport. But,

Also, it will depend on your other equipment. Rega makes a really large range integrated amps from extremely inexpensive to much less inexpensive. Which do you have and speakers? What is your longer termed goals? Move your system up? Or just bring your CD player closer to your vinyl playback?

If thinking longer termed, I would consider a streamer as transport instead of physical media. For the price of a CD / month you get access to a nearly infinite amount of music, much at a higher resolution than CD. Streaming can equal or exceed the sound quality of Other digital content or even vinyl at different price points.

Streaming is not always the answer, If one has a large collection of CD’s. Though it is close CD sound quality is better.

My advice is the opposite of @kota1 .  The DAC is the most important part of a CD system.  If you have a DAC you like, then you are really just using the CD player as a CD transport, sending a digital signal to the DAC.

Streaming you are fighting bit losses as large files are sent over the internet.  I don't know for sure, and maybe someone who knows can speak up here, but I think CD players are much closer to "lossless".  If that is the case, there is not much to be gained.  

The key to digital is to get a DAC you like and it sounds like you have.  Once you have that DAC, I would never use the DAC in a cd player.

Jerry

Thanks for all your responses! I have around 1,000 CD’s boxed up (after switching back to vinyl 7 years ago, oh the irony) and I just did a trial on Qobuz which was great but I’m looking interested in playing the CD boxsets I have where the bonus discs weren’t ever released on vinyl so it’s my only way to hear alternate takes, unreleased tracks, etc.). At this stage my CD player is basically a transporter as it feeds into the Audiolab M-DAC+. From the comments above, as I’m happy with my DAC I should stick with what I have. Thanks again.

@side22olto  - I haven't heard your DAC so I can't offer an opinion on its SQ. As far as whether or not you may or may not heard a difference with another transport in combination with it only you can decide by listening with your equipment. However,  in general better transports  offer SQ improvements as they allow the DAC to better realize its SQ potential. If you are going to stay with a separate DAC I will agree with newbee to spend the money on a dedicated transport versus another CD player acting as a transport. If you are in the US companies such as Crutchfield & Audio Advisor have 30 day return policies so you can audition a transport that's in the price range of your DAC.  Net net, having 1st hand experience with this in my own systems , I'd suggest ignoring any advice that suggests that the transport doesn't matter, that bits are bits, yada , yada, yada

You can always improve your musical reproduction, but the question would be why.  If you are happy with the music then leave things alone, because real solid improvement means examining all components from power to speakers and determining the best order to replace components and that can be the start of a major outflow of cash.  I started thinking that I would just do one thing and then I realized that I wasted my money without another upgrade and so it went for the last eight or nine months. Don't start if you are happy where you are.

@jerryg123

If playing a CD has better sound qualityr or streaming is better is completely dependent on your equipment. On my equipment Red Book CD is eclipsed by HR streaming and equaled by streaming of Red Book CD format. In fact on average streaming equals my very good vinyl leg.

Which is my point. If you are going to work on a particular source… streaming is the one to pursue… the cost / benefit of having top notch streaming just completely eclipses buying and owning CDs.

I have given away my 2,000 CDs. They serve no purpose after a couple years of just collecting dust.

@carlsbad 

Streamers Have extremely low bit rate requirements and most cashe the data. My streamers work flawlessly when I cannot get my news page to refresh on my iPad. Clearly a DAC is important, but like everything else in high quality audio, sound quality is hindered by your weakest link. I have streamed using, iPods, iPhones, PCs, MACs, iPads and about half a dozen dedicated streamers (and also DACs)… and the streamer really maters! Like every other component.

@facten

I’d suggest ignoring any advice that suggests that the transport doesn’t matter, that bits are bits, yada , yada, yada

I agree with your entire post and particularly this wise advice.
OP if you’re really happy with your current situation and sound quality, leave it alone. If you are determined to extract more from your CD listening experience, that is definitely possible. Just depends on what you are ultimately trying to accomplish.

As facten said, ignore the “bits is bits” mindset. A dedicated high quality CD transport will very positively impact your listening experience. DAC quality matters , and so does transport quality. A mediocre CD /digital source is only going to mitigate what a good DAC is capable of providing. Better CD transport means better DAC performance. This comprises your digital front end. They work in harmony as a pair, not in isolation from one another.

Inevitably all topics concerning CD playback will have the streaming alternative thrown in. Just the way it is now. That’s your call obviously. I believe that nearly everyone at this point is aware of the existence of streaming. However, there are plenty of listeners who prefer physical media and spinning CDs. Strange as that may be. So strictly a preference issue. 

Charles

I have an Oppo 105 which I've enjoyed for years. Highly regarded and lauded. Then Iauded a Schiit Gungnir DAC, making the Oppo a transport and the sound just bloomed! 

Your Marantz first was produced in 2007, 15 years ago. You could probably stand to invest in a more modern CD transport - the California Audio Labs Tercet Mk 3 comes to mind and then experiment with DACs. 

I’ve preferred the Cambridge CXC transport to any of my older CD players or my Oppo 103 used as a transport...it's inexpensive, and I find the transport does matter...

@ghdprentice stay on topic guy asked about transports and players not streaming. 

Until I upgraded to an Audio Research Ref CD9 I had no real appreciation of the influence of source, internal DAC, tube output stage, etc has on the performance of a CD player. This unit is not the DAC of choice for all my digital listening. And this fixed my perception of harsh leading and trailing edges from the previous Esoteric K03Xs CD player.

So my answer is certainly yes.

Audiolab CDT6000 is very good. Being a dedicated transport, it would likely be a nice improvement over the old marantz cd player. 
But as others pointed out, DAC is at least as important as a transport. The CDT6000 just lays a pretty good foundation for a future dac upgrade. 

In my mind, CDs and streaming should always co-exist. I stream plenty via Tidal Hi-Fi Plus and other services (through a Bluesound NODE 2i), but most of my listening is spent with CDs (lots of jazz, but other genres, as well). A couple years ago I decided to upgrade with a CDP that would complement my Rega Elex-R integrated; I picked-up a used Rega Apollo CD player and haven’t looked back.

An important consideration about modern streaming is that when we stream a classic album, we’re usually hearing the record company’s latest remaster. That can often mean a louder, more distorted reissue when compared to the original and/or earlier remasters. Those earlier versions are rarely available to stream, having been replaced by the remaster of the moment.

Having collected CDs since 1985, I have many original issues, including many Japanese- and German-made discs, which mostly sound superior to remasters currently streaming. So to answer the original question, yes it’s absolutely worth upgrading a CD player!

+1 on getting a transport, if you are happy with your present DAC

Thanks again for the comments. I’ll look into which transports pair well with the Audiolab M-DAC+.
 

+1 Charles1dad

@ghdprentice I think you misunderstood my post.  I meant that a streamer must work hard to deal with dropped bits and upgrading your streamer is key.  I have gone to an Innuos Zenith Mk3.  But I think the CD transport has much less tendancy to drop bits and thus any good solid well designed CD transport should get a good stream of bits to your DAC.  However, I am not sure about that and was hoping someone could confirm that CD transports drop very few bits.

Jerry

Absolutely! Check out the Project DS 2, a player with a coax output, meaning it can be used as a transport, too

Many + reviews. Here's one:

I forgot to mention my cd collection is ripped to an external drive and then either streamed through the house via Sonos or played directly to the DAC via a USB cable from a Mac. I still manage the music library using iTunes.

I went from a Marantz CD5004 to a McIntosh SACD 85 paired to a McIntosh MA352. While the DAC in the McIntosh is an improvement, added SACD capability is the most significant. I will note the little old Marantz still sounds very good in the same set up, but there’s richer details with the McIntosh; enough to justify the significant expense differential? That’s up to the individual.

Also noted, there’s limited availability of SACDs and not all are exceptional, when you have a great one you’ll know, it just stands out. Maybe that’s the reveal, you can tell the difference between really detailed and flat CDs and SACDs.

Another mod was I also added balanced cables from the SACD to the MA352 (never compared them to RCA, but couldn’t resist using that option). So many options for SACD players today, but not so much material in that format, you’ll have to hunt for it online.

Another point, I use a Marantz NA6005 for streaming, but I optically connect it to the McIntosh MCD85 to use the newer McIntosh DAC for conversion to analog.  

Just not a fan of the transport/dac solution any more for playing CD’s. If I have 2 or 3 sources connected to the same dac or use it double duty as a preamp, fine. But with a collection of 1000 CD’s worth it to me to upgrade to a one and done solution where the transport/dac.are in a single unit.

Black Ice 1 box tube based solution that will also stream wireless via apple airplay or DLNA:

solid state Marantz unit that will also stream via USB:

I forgot to mention my cd collection is ripped to an external drive and then either streamed through the house via Sonos or played directly to the DAC via a USB cable from a Mac. I still manage the music library using iTunes.

If you have the cash to float and are not locked in on itunes, pick up the Bryston BDP Pi on here for ~$550.  Then attach the your ripped storage to it via USB and hook the Pi to your DAC.   The Pi will also stream Tidal or Qobuz up to 24/196 if you have wired internet to it in some fashion.   You can even hook external DVD player to Pi and rip CDs directly to storage.    The web interface is spartan and frustrating to some but the SQ is good.  Pi easily sold if you dont like it.   If you got even more cash look at the BDP -2 or 3. 

@carlsbad 100% agree the DAC is way more pivotal in its roll in the digital audio chain. Transport with a high performing DAC that will also benefit streaming is the way to go. 

Just upgraded to a LessLoss DAC with Firewire 640X and will be adding additional 640X's to my system. Outstanding products from Switzerland. 

LessLoss Power Distributor | Atelier 13 Audio (atelier13-usa.com)

LessLoss Echo's End R-2R DAC| Atelier 13 Audio (atelier13-usa.com)

I have had the Marantz CD6002 for about 10 years. I upgraded everything in the last 3 years but never for once was unhappy with the CD player. I think it would be very hard to gain anything by replacing it (in my "budget", low-end system). I compared it to streaming and vinyl, same songs, and - again - with my components, all three sources were profoundly different but not necessarily better/worse. Some music sound best on CDs, mostly certain genre and decade - to my ears.

btw what speakers did you end up with?

As posted by @newbee,

"there is considerable difference between a CD transport (what you are using your Marantz as) and dedicated transports." 

I am hearing more lately about the quality of CDs played through a dedicated transport being sonically better than, or at least equal to, high level streaming equipment.  I have a couple of pretty good DACs here and the manufacturer of those DACs believes CDs played through a good quality transport sound better than streamed audio (and that manufacturer makes a streamer!).   

I have heard good things about the Audiolab CDT6000 transport discussed in this thread.  If you can afford another level up, the Jay's Audio CDT2-MK3 or their flagship CDT3-MK3 have a strong following. I haven't pulled the trigger on a transport because I have so far doubted that the delta between the sound quality from my streamer/server and that provided by a transport playing physical CDs would be large enough to outweigh the convenience of streaming, at least for me.

@mitch2

I have so far doubted that the delta between the sound quality from my streamer/server and that provided by a transport playing physical CDs would be large enough to outweigh the convenience of streaming, at least for me.

If you really enjoy streaming music and it’s your predominant listening choice, I’d recommend that you just stick with it. On the other hand it you genuinely appreciate CD ownership,handling interaction and listening, then pursue a high quality dedicated CD transport. The best you can afford.

Redbook 16/44 can be/is absolutely superb sounding if a higher tier DAC and higher tier transport are carefully selected and paired. This has been my outcome.

Charles

To me it's worth it.

I love using a CDP.

I love holding physical media.

My 2C. 

Your money, your choice.

@grislybutter I auditioned Sonetto III, B&W704 and AE520s and went with the latter, should be here within a week or so. Looking forward to it!

@side22olto they look awesome. I hope they will work out nicely. 

@charles1dad  +1. 

You guys are not helping with my goal to stop adding more boxes.

I am very happy with the versatility, convenience, and diversity of choices related to streaming. My CDs are located on my server’s SSD in FLAC and those sound at least as good as Tidal/Qobuz through Roon. However, I am very curious how much better a transport could sound, especially since that is the main source used by the designer of my DAC.

If I were to add a transport, is the CDT2-MK3 good enough to achieve the sonic benefit or should I consider spending double on the CDT3-MK3?

@grislybutter thanks, they were definitely the best and perform well above the price grade.

@mitch2

I viewed your audio system and it is exceptionally nice. You Mojo Audio DAC is held in very high esteem. Benjamin Zwickel (Owner/builder Mojo Audio) did publicly express a preference for high level CD transports over streamers.

You represent a good example of potentially pairing an upper tier DAC with a similar tier transport.

I use the Pro-Ject RS2T which is excellent sounding. I don’t have a Jay’s Audio CD transport but based on reviews and owner testimonials, they are excellent high quality choices. From what I have been able to gather,  as good as the CDT2 MK III is, the big brother CDT3 MK III is the superior CD transport. I had read a review comparing the two siblings. The reviewer said the top model was in his opinion substantially better sounding (And he really liked the smaller (CDT2 MK III).

As you note, it’s double the cost. Given the high level of your audio system and certainly your DAC, I would opt for the CDT3. Of course this assumes you find it a comfortable budget fit. You may as well try to extract the highest degree of sound quality you can from your digital/CDs.

My strong suspicion is that the CDT3 and your DAC would yield superb sound quality as a pairing.

Best wishes,

Charles

A lengthy review (As is his norm) but he is detailed and makes very useful comparisons.

@mitch2 +1, I am in the stop adding more boxes camp. More boxes, more cables, more space in the rack, more $$$, more complexity= a lot of stuff for diminishing returns IMO.

@mitch2 

 

side22olto OP

13 posts

11-14-2022 at 09:22am 

I forgot to mention my cd collection is ripped to an external drive and then either streamed through the house via Sonos or played directly to the DAC via a USB cable from a Mac. I still manage the music library using iTunes.
 

That’s an important detail.
1 - Mac isn’t good as a streamer.

2 - if you used AIFF, WAV or FLAC format to rip your CDs, a dedicated streamer (i.e Lumin U1 Mini) will do a much better job than your Mac.
In my opinion, as long as your files are in any of the above formats, you’re much better off with a dedicated streamer that has a usb port to connect your hard drive with music to (in addition to usb out to feed the dac). A CD Transport under $1000 retail isn’t going to do a better job in that system than a streamer would.
At a later point, whenever you can, add Qobuz and you’re done.  As far as your marantz, keep it until you decide you no longer need it. 

+ another one @charles1dad

and +1 @kota1 "I’m in the stop adding boxes camp..."

But overall: If you like your Marantz, and it’s running like a champ... well, in my opinion roll w it. I mean, how much do you want to spend and how many boxes do you want, or is the M good as is for you? If you do get any sound quality upgrade with some other option, will it be THAT much better, really, honestly, that you would sit up and take notice?

I’m listening to an old (2004) Sony cd changer as we speak, and it sounds excellent, though admittedly - and I was surprised, actually - my single-cd Marantz Ruby does sound a bit better (but it better, at $4000 list, though I got mine open box but still $2400).... but not by a wide margin, and I have to listen for it; nobody other than a concentrating discerning audiophile would ever notice, at least not consciously. I only got the Ruby cd player because I couldn’t pass it up to complete my Ruby system when I bought the amp at the same time also open box price, and it does provide a great dac for the streamer etc too built in w/o adding even more boxes... I’m glad I did, but it’s an extravagance for my simple practical tastes.

Now, the Ruby also has a great dac built in for other component to input through, so I have my Bluesound streamer going into the Ruby dac via coax, and I could put my Sony cd changer for those days when I want to spin five discs in the background into the dac of the Ruby via optical. Currently I run my TV into the optical of the Ruby cd player, though if I get a basic Schitt for the TV then I could I suppose put the Sony player into the optical in of the Ruby... but I’m not in a rush, because the Sony with its own internal dac does sound great just right into the back of the amp via RCA. ... and I suspect that might be the case with your existent Marantz, as well.  

But that’s my system, and I’m absolutely not willing to chase after some ultimate dac beyond it, because now you’re onto a whole other hunt, obsession, expense, debate and so on.

I’ve ripped my CDs to Apple Lossless.

OP,

Since you only asked about CD, I’ll limit my comments to that:

You did not list a price range for an upgrade, but here are some:

(1) Under $1,000 Audiolab 6000 CDT

(2) Under $2,500 Jay’s Audio CDT2-MkIII

(3) Under $5,000 Jays Audio CDT3-MkIII

@vthokie83 thanks, it would be under £1k and I’ve read a few good reviews of the Audiolab 6000CDT.