Do you ever get the feeling when you start to question whether playing records is really worth it all? You know with everything involved with great record playback. The setup, the cleaning regime, the $1000 plus cartridges that start their finite lifespan as soon as stylus first touches vinyl and spirals into less and less value with every play. All the tweaks involved, cables, mats, isolation etc. Then the media itself with it's inevitable disapointments.
Don't you just like to push a couple buttons on your phone app and be listening to great sound with a worldwide catalogue at your fingertips.
Or is it that when all of it lines up and the sounds are just sublime, then yes you sit back with a wry smile and say...
I bought it from a dealer that I really trust. I know they will make it right. Maybe it got damaged in shipping? Everything was intact when I got it and I didn't see any damage to the box.
I had the day off yesterday entirely from records. Streaming only as was playing with Roon. Which I then find is incompatible with Aurender! Now it's days like that which make me near thankful for the relative simplicity of spinning a record. All you have to worry about there is vta, sra, vtf, clean record, clean stylus, no static, no broken cart wires, phase of the moon.....
Last night was one of those nights... I bought a used cartridge for the SL 1200 MKII. Mounted it, no sound out of the left channel. WTF! Put a different cartridge on that headshell, sound out of both channels. OK, it's not the headshell. Put the "new" cartridge back on, double checked to make sure all connections were good. Still no sound out of the left channel. Frustrating!
I decided to put the recently new Denon DL 301 MK2 on and pulled out some E.L.O. and Santana and... bliss! Abraxas in particular sounded sooooo good.
When I sit back and listen to something from my babied selection of LP's, especially when it is not available on CD's, I am happy. Since I spent half a century perfecting my system with multiple, switchable, sub crossovers form matched amps and preamps to my main speakers, and the mechanical, not electronic tone controls for both pairs of speakers, that help all sources sound better, I thank my lucky life that my Dad was an electrical engineer, as well as a small town movie theater and juke box company owner. With both movie sound (A skinny, three foot tall, GE tube amp), and his Seeburgs, Wurtlizers, and RockOla's, I most certainly was exposed to horrible sound at an early age.
The evening goes like this. Starts of well with couple albums, getting up every 20 to 25 minutes. Then moved to couple CDs, getting up every 45 to 60 minutes. Finally streaming, getting up...well when I need to pee. And working on that one😉😉
@geoffkaitt The Townsend Seismic Sink is NOT an historical notable for a museum. It is among the most impressive anti-vibration devices I’ve tried. Sure, you probably think all of my Stillpoints and use of a buckwheat pillow for two pieces of equipment are also antiquated. You don’t even listen to speakers so how do you know so much about air-borne vibration control (let alone equipment induced vibration-you don’t listen to records either)? My shot&sand filled solid steel stands are probably antiquated also. You’re such a know-it-all.
I love the sound of a record, as well as the experience of cleaning, flipping, listening to the whole thing, and collecting. I like to find that treasure, bring it home, listen to it, catalog it, and find out I already had it. Dag nab it! luckily, my local record shop accepts returns when this happens.
But, also I consider the walk from the chair to the TT to flip the record part of my exercise regimen. Am I the only one?
I find I stream Tidal through my system primarily to search out and listen to new music .
After auditions via streaming I then decide whether or not to buy a vinyl release. Occasionally buy a cd if the music is not on vinyl. I always try to buy music I like as a small effort to support musicians
I still have and listen to my old LPs and occasionally pick up a new vinyl, but at the prospects of soon replacing an expensive (short lived) cartridge and with the convince and the much improved sound quality of both CD and streaming, my enthusiasm for Vinyl isn't what it used to be. However, with hundreds of classic vinyls, in every genre (a good many of them master recordings) I don't think I'll ever be ready to completely abandon LPs; just a little more time spinning the silver discs and a little less spinning the LPs....Jim
The Seismic Sink. One of the first iso stands and to be honest really not too bad. But things progressed a lot since those days. I would hardly call the Seismic Sink high end. But it’s certainly better than nothing. It should be in a museum of iso stands.
The Townsend Seismic Sink is also essential for many turntables as well as transports/DACs. My VPI TNT VI sounded no better than my VPI 19-4 until I placed it on an HDF platform under the TNT resting on a Townsend Sink . Now it's high end.
I HATE setting up a new cartridge. First it has to break-in for 50 hours. My SME IV arm has a spring mounted VTA and no SRA adjustment (use tiny shim to correct). This is the worst part of preparing to play an LP. However, my arm is not VTA critical once set. It sounds about as good on 120g as 180g records.
To Mozartfan-Nope, I have at least 7,500 LPs which have not and probably never will be in the digital stream or CD realm (1,000 ethnic LPs for sure). However, I generally prefer listening to my Living Stereo and Living Presence classical music on greatly remastered CDs. Again, unfortunately, those that were pop are generally unavailable in the digital realm.
I listen to either CD or LP format about equally. I've become lazy and only listen to my 78s about 5% to 7% of the time. I used to transfer them to cassette and for 15 years to CD. That really makes it convenient to hear 10" 78s.
I spin vinyl about 5% of the time which is about as much time as I get to myself. That is to say alone time when I get to listen to music and relax. That said, a friend sent me a link to this cartoon many will find humorous. http://www.newyorker.com/cartoon/a19180
My analog and digital setups are both pleasurable listening experiences. It all comes down to modes of emotional fulfillment as to which I listen to. Digital streaming with Qobuz, Tidal and rips of over 10k cd's allows stream of consciousness listening sessions. Vinyl really requires listening to entire side of album, really great for the concept albums and classical. Vinyl listening is a nostalgic experience, bringing forth great memories from the good old days.
The relatively low cost of acquiring new digital music plays a large role in this as well. The more music I acquire makes the cost of Tidal and Qobuz marginally less as well, acquiring new albums is a relatively costly endeavor. My Roon album playlist is nearing 60k, I now can have every album of my favorite artists, and the discovery of new artists and genres makes this the golden age of music for me. This huge supply of music allows my stream of consciousness listening sessions to vary in incredible ways!
And so actions speak louder than words, 90% digital, 10% vinyl playback. Stream of consciousness is preferable to nostalgia for me.
To me, playing records is absolutely worth it. I just get more "zen" spinning vinyl. I know it can be a PITA, but MY GOD, when it's good, it's GREAT! I still play digital, and really enjoy it. But I'm typing this while listening to Malia on Qobuz. I can't do multi-tasking when listening to vinyl. It consumes all my bandwidth.
Before upgrading my Phono system, I made a decision to properly clean my old lps, what a difference it makes.
just scrubbed 20 more lps yesterday. Without exception, every one I clean sounds great. Sometimes, rarely, I get a bit of static between tracks, otherwise music only.
I'm making quite a stack of LP's to sell, many are not my taste (given to me by friends dumping their lps), and many just poor engineering, odd imaging, ......., and I need room to fit my excess capacity leaning on the bottom shelves
Keeping about half, and the re-discovery is very enjoyable.
Personal involvement is definitely an attraction, sense of achievement, or, a big PITA
I once owned an expensive, state of the art, turntable. I owned several very good ones before I got my Merrill Heirloom and Grado Signature tonearm. I also used to be a TT repairman for the BSR company back in the day. Turntables did not intimidate me. Many records do not sound that good. Getting certain instruments to sound realistic with a cartridge can be frustrating. When I heard good digital? I knew what I was hearing was closer to the real thing. Having been a musician and hearing live instruments up close, it just clicked with me. Too many assume that all music performances should sound fantastic. They do not. If you like how your system presents what you hear? Why bother?
I cannot understand why anyone plays vinyl when there is streaming technology available? No noise from the stylus tracking on a vinyl record. With all the hi res recordings they have to sound better. Unless, people love to hear the noise from playing vinyl. Just don't get it. You can select from huge libraries at Tidal from the comfort of your sofa without having to get, change the record, search for another and then clean that one.
If one can afford a good vinyl setup it's worth it. I got back into this hobby with a digital headphone rig. Then slowly built my two channel system without vinyl. It does take a commitment for vinyl. My vinyl sound now surpasses a great digital system. I do listen or stream more often due to convienince.
Hey Bros & Sis's in lock-down! Ain't it a shame when one gets their system going to its max, we're unable to go visit nor have visitors. Grrrr. My "solution" to listening to great vinyl playback, is to have friends. My pal has a huge sound space with amazing playback gear, where vinyl still rules. At age 73, I held out for digital source until the late 90's for digital sound to came of age...enough to strike my emotions, given good sources... mostly digital stuff engineered (or re-engineered) post 1990. There are earlier wonderful exceptions like Proprius..."Jazz at the Pawnshop." The sound remains utterly amazing by today standards. The music suffers from lack of continuity...a random set, but the organic sound is indisputable. My friend's vinyl copies are off the charts, musically. My hundreds of carefully done, select lossless rips are still my main source. To rip, I shut everything down, clean and demagnetize the cd, using a thin Marigo CD mat with double sided tape in the CD Rom for the rips. I've tried Amazon hi res and Qobuz streaming. I have settled on TIDAL...enjoying the ability to do full MQA through my LG V30 streams to my OTL headphone amp and single unfold through my music PC Win10 - Foobar to main system. For Vets, they have a military discount. Recently, on the advice of my longtime digital audio Tech, I've added a plug-in device KAZROG TrueIron for a bit of old tube like transformer warmth to the digital. Inexpensive, better harmonics, no harm done. I am never sad to come home to my rig after visiting with vinyl. The price and quality of inexpensive DACs are amazing right now. My vinyl buddy lives where bandwidth is limited. Until that's resolved, he downloads high resolution files to his laptop and hard wires the playback to his preamp through the Audioquest Dragonfly Cobalt. Does it equal his uber tube dac, no...but it is very, very good. For a few hundred dollars, there are amazing options out there. Finally uberwaltz, anything you find most worthwhile..it is. More peace, Friends in audio. Pin
Yes it is worth it. It is the sanctuary as you grow older. It is your hobby and interest as you through the hobby. That is not to say we need to spend exorbitant amounts of money to provide music that satisfies you. There a many choices. For others, do not belittle or criticise the adventurers or triers in this hobby when they seek information or reviews; without the sarcasm from those know better. As people, as knowledgeable people, we should be able to impart knowledge without sarcasm and belittling the OP or contributors. Yes it is worth it all. All aspects are worth it all. Seriously. May be a few to argue? Beautiful music, the strive for better equipment; the transformation of music into peace, comfort, and appreciation of those who produce all of it. Is it worth it? For us; who appreciate all of this/our equipment and number and supply of music in various formats; for whatever our sound systems sound like: 90% enjoy what we have. Perhaps in the future, appreciation of systems and music will change for the better and improvement in both music delivery and hardware to mirror our choices, will be available with good reviews.
Yes, the ritual is a large part. I always tell those looking to get into vinyl that if they don't enjoy that, they won't like vinyl. Then there is the fact that you have an album cover with art and notes that don't require a magnifying glass to see.
Is it all worth it? The short answer is yes. It's the ritual we enjoy as well as the sound. The digital as well. It's phenomenal. However the experience is completely different.
I have never rushed home wanting to adjust VTA, clean records, double check tracking force, and so on. I was aware of guy who would do all of this for EACH record in his collection. All my vinyl is gone.
I agree with two posts up, I enjoy just listening to my FM tuner at times. No fuss, just tune in to my local classical or jazz station. The quality of the both the signal and the content is superb.
Records do sound good when everythjng is done properly and cleaned - what a pain in the ass. I have learned a ton on how to make digital from a quality dac sound like good analog for example buy a matrix audio ,or Jcat audio card that have Femto clocks , a plug in mojo audio regulator module for low noise and their dacs using R2R dacs are great, and a linear power supply external like a Sbooster, or wyred 4 sound power module unit $400 + $150 per devise and you are playing analog ,if streaming get a network like a Jcat these computer add on around a grand and nigh5 and day difference in audio ,ps buy a good digital cable Wywire Ref, very natural for example.
I’ve had over the years numerous different systems. What I really enjoy these days is simply listening to the Radio (on the internet) I’m surprised how good some stations sound but I like not listening to or for SQ as much as it forces me to just listen to music for musics sake. Not to say I don’t have a good system 😏
Vinyl has always been my primary music source. I still own and play the first album I purchased with my lawn cutting money in the early 70s. My father loved his music and it was spinning most evenings. The “ritual” was ingrained and practiced from an early age. Today I still love to tweak my cartridges setup. Newly acquired TT has two tonearms and I spent a good 2 hours today making minor SRA adjustments on one tonearm to optimize the Kiseki Pupleheart. Down to 0.1mm changes until I found the spot it will stay at for the foreseeable future. I love this challenge and the rich reward I experience from the effort in listening to the music at its best. My digital system is also very solid but to reach the level of my vinyl I would have to probably add another $10,000 investment. Not happening and no fun to tweak. It is a hobby...
To me, it's more than just sound quality. I started listening to records in the mid-60s, got my own first component stereo in 1970, and I couldn't tell you any of the brand names except for the Garrard record changer and a pair of Dave Clark headphones. Whole set-up was $100 used. A tiny (15 wpm?) integrated amp and some little bookshelf speakers. I was completely happy with this system for 5-6 years (through college), and paid little attention to high-end systems. It was all about the music itself. Carefully selecting an album for purchase. Reading all the liner notes. And listened to the whole album all the way through most times. The tunes and their sequence were part of the artists' intent. My system now is far, far better, and most of my listening is either CDs or iTunes files burned from CDs. I love the convenience, but the record playing routine is in my blood, and I still relate it to the love of music I developed prior to the digital revolution. Yes, keeping records in good shape is a pain. Hauling the albums around and storing them is a pain. The tics and pops (or worse) used to cause me angst. But I still love the experience. Working now on setting up a basic, inexpensive 2nd system in my home with just phono and R2R, just because I can. Just for the experience.
Church. That is sad to hear but I know meaninglessness platitudes from this forum will not help you much right now. But best wishes to you and your family.
People here get too caught up in the hardware. I think a sizeable bunch want to be forum heroes with the equipment they have. Its always about the music though. Never forget.
I can tell you that in the last week I sold off my entire system (which was a patchwork of mid fi gear that sounded pretty good) and almost half my records. The other half I’ll box and store indefinitely. All that pays for the last 3 months of my daughter’s therapies and a loaner truck as we will now live on a friend’s couch for the foreseeable future. Three Part time and one full time job vanished in about 4 days.
Be happy you have a system to play on. Those of us not anointed will be nomads with only $14 earbuds to guide us. GCG signing out.
My classical CD collection is complete, LP's are dinosaurs. THere is NOT 1 LP cllasical muisc record that i can not find on a CD format. as been mentioned no *snaps crackles pops*,,Nothing worse than listening to Webern's short but rick pieces with a pop going off here and there. Completely ruins the experience. The other 10 KT150's arrive tomorrow for my Defy7, Yeah this stereo thing is worth the money.
We are fortunate to live in times where we have multiple choices to enjoy music and our beloved hobby. Glad to hear you’re enjoying music...regardless of the format.
Digital streaming is now fully matured and it is just as enjoyable as other competing formats from past and present. Let’s keep an open mind, enjoy the music (vino is optional) and be happy!
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