Class D, good for powered subs and car stereo amps, and that’s about it. All my opinion. No class D in my house, except my powered tannoy sub in my dedicated home theater set up. Hifi run by class A.
Is D for Dry? Class D...
Class D sounds dry and lifeless... thats all, carry on
228 responses Add your response
It depends. I've experienced quite a few tube and solid state A/AB class amps which were boring or plain unlustenable. I use class D NAD C688 integrated for my patio B&W AM-1 speakers and the sound is decent enough for me to live with this amp as base of the bedroom system. In contest - my primary system is mostly McIntosh (C1100 pre, MC452 power amp, SME 20/3 turntable, Manley Steelhead phono, and Sonus Faber Guarneri EVO speakers). Week ago got a chance to try class D AMPED America power amp 2400. Contrary to expectations (if any), this power amp held it's own against McIntosh MC402 and MC452 amps. I didn't find it dry, unnatural or uninvolving. The sound was clean, detailed, dynamic and on the neutral side of things. Price wise - substantially less than my lovely Macs. |
@chronicle.. I have the S-500, a single chassis stereo amp. The other amps are a mono block and a mono block with a tube input stage. I have heard the mono blocks with the tube input stage, and they did sound warmer and smoother, but the system context was completely different. You might be able to get a home trial of this amp. Mike Kalellis designed and builds them. He is very talented, and a heck of a nice guy. Call and speak with him. |
zephyr24069 You are soo, right. It never ends. But I’m hooked. Movies are my wife’s deal, but the video concerts, as long as there in 5.1 Dolby or better and recorded in the early 2000’s (or newer), are better than being there. Seriously.... I have yet to have anyone over to watch one of these things that don’t look at you after that first song in utter disbelief. I've had a few over that had absolutely no intentions of listening to anymore than just a sample, only to be glued to there listening position for the entire rest of the concert... THAT...makes it all worthwhile.. That’s why I can say I USE these amplifiers. They don’t sit there for their looks, or at an idle,,, |
@atmasphere +1 on that,....well said! @nitrobob Thanks,....I used to have a very large, complex, costly and (I thought) great-sounding/viewing 7.1 HT and 2-ch hybrid system up until late 2008-2009. I missed 2-ch music whenever I was immersed in a movie and also was tired of chasing the ever-evolving standards in multi-channel audio and home theater decoding standards, pre-processing, post-processing, video standards and all they bring along, etc...so I've stuck to 2-channel fully since 2009. I did love the sport of home theater so to speak however my listening and system building has given me much more happiness ever since choosing only 1 addiction to chase :-) |
Class D sounds dry and lifeless... thats all, carry onThe one I'm playing sounds neutral, smooth and relaxed, very transparent without any dryness at all. Class D amps vary in sound in much the same way that tube amps do (SET vs push-pull vs OTL and so on...). To assume they all sound the same is really ridiculous. But to be clear, some (especially older designs) do sound dry; it was years before I could take class D seriously. |
Zephyr Thanks, I was thinking it was a hopped up version. I believe your right on the IV-2, as my dealer said one of the benefits of going IV-2 and IV-5 instead of sending my V-5 back in to be upgraded to a V-7 would be the extra 400 watts to my Focus’s. (600 up to 1000 each). Jealous of your Valors. LOL .. BTW I don't know what your using in the back but the Phantom HD's was quite a surprise.. I strongly suggest them. And thanks for the heads up on the break in .. |
@nitrobob Congratulations on what sounds like a great system! I had Caliber XDs stacked on 2 Foundation subs driven by Wavelet before I went up to Valor and the results were both earth-shattering and musically fantastic. The subs require good break-in to sound their best, 250+ hours and they are even tighter, more impactful, graceful and musical then straight OOTB. As I understand it, the i.V2 may be at Ultra build level by its design (check with Legacy). For the other Ultra models, instead of using one 1200AS2 stereo board as I understand it to drive 2 channels (so 2 boards in a 4ch, 3 in a 6ch and 4 in an 8ch), the Ultra doubles down and uses an entire 1200AS2 board to drive a single channel. The results are noticeable for 2, 3 and 4 ch listening, dynamics, etc. I'm a customer and have learned as I proceeded up the line so please check with Legacy for all details. |
Zephyr My Legacy IV-2 for my mains, and IV-5 for my surrounds was the best choice I have made in the last decade. I just ordered two Foundation subs to finish out my project. I’m replacing two 18 inch PSA’s and wondering if the ice amps in them has improved also? I did not order the Ultra’s. What exactly is the deal with them? |
(correction to earlier post as it is no longer editable) should say 100, 200+ pound amps.... I've corrected it here: I've owned in the past a large number of major name-brand top Class AB solid state amps and have heard and love many others as well as many great tube amps and Class A solid state. All the AB that I owned were big, expensive, heavy, wonderful sounding and I was one of those hardcore solid-state amp guys that swore I would never have digital amps of any kind. Well they've come a long way and my speakers are highly powered internally for mid-bass, bass and sub-bass by some great next generation Class D amps. Furthermore, I've owned a Legacy i.V4 ULTRA amp since May of 2020 and am still shocked at how damned good it is and how those 100+, 200+ pound (weight) amps costing many tens of thousands of dollars are no longer in my system as I'm really impressed by the power, dynamics, finesse, musicality and all other aspects of this next generation digital amp. Very impressive amp regardless of what type of amplification it is. |
I've owned in the past a large number of major name-brand top Class AB solid state amps and have heard and love many others as well as many great tube amps and Class A solid state. All the AB that I owned were big, expensive, heavy, wonderful sounding and I was one of those hardcore solid-state amp guys that swore I would never have digital amps of any kind. Well they've come a long way and my speakers are highly powered internally for mid-bass, bass and sub-bass by some great next generation Class D amps. Furthermore, I've owned a Legacy i.V4 ULTRA amp since May of 2020 and am still shocked at how damned good it is and how those 100, 200+ amps costing many tens of thousands of dollars are no longer in my system as I'm really impressed by the power, dynamics, finesse, musicality and all other aspects of this next generation digital amp. Very impressive amp regardless of what type of amplification it is. |
@arctic If you like the M1200s (and can afford $6K), Ric (EVS) says he can mod them up for you, but if you don't need big power Underwood HiFi might actually be FINALLY introducing the Voyager GaN amp or ... FYI the have a 15 day return policy but buyer pays shipping both ways, which, due to size and weight is minimal https://premium-audio.com/gan-audio-amplifiers.html $699 |
@chronicle... I went from a trouble-plagued but highly regarded class a/b amp that weighed 64 lbs and was rated at 150 watts/channel to my Arion, rated at 500 watts/channel. In my case, this was no compromise for lighter weight. Dynamics, soundstage and especially neutrality all improved significantly. Best of all, a lower-treble/upper-midrange peak that could get nasty disappeared. For years, I thought it was from my room or my loudspeakers. But it was my "liquid sounding" Class A/B amp all along. I have been digging my system with the Class D Arion amp for over a year now. Absolutely love it. I am fairly sure I could not beat it for the money. |
Bondmanp wrote: "My back and I love our Class D Arion Audio S-500 amp." (Sorry, I haven't mastered the art of quoting on this forum.) I love bondmanp's remark, because it sums up how everything is a trade-off. I have a Yamaha AS-501 integrated, in large measure because it's about 25 pounds and that's my upper limit. But I'd love more power! And Class D seems the only way for me to get that without injury. Is it everything sonically a powerful A/AB amp would be? Maybe, maybe not. But the powerful A/AB amp is not an option. I am more and more intrigued by the world of Class D. |
My vote goes to dry, or at least dry'ish and lacking in that last touch of "realness," which better amplifiers are able to convey. For subs and general listening Class D is great, but when compared to better Class A or Class AB amplifiers the NC1200 Ncore amplifiers that I owned (Acoustic Imagery Atsah monos) fell short. This quote from a review of the Mola Mola Kaluga in Mono & Stereo comes as close as any to what I heard from the NC1200 monoblocks: "All notes were there but the illusion of musicians standing in front of me wasn`t convincing at all. The music didn`t sound inviting and involving, it was just… there. |
@arcticdeth Have you listened to an EVS1200, or evenly the lowly (by comparison) PS Audio M1200s? You might know I have owned a EVS 1200 for almost 2 years now. My preamp/dac is a Audio Alchemy DDP-1 + PS 5 (outboard PS). I had taken out the optical cable so was listening via my Oppo 105 with upgraded LPM, and it was VG, BUT, the HFs were on the harsh side and depth was ok, even though I was using WireWorld Series 8 XLRs. I finally figured that out and hooked up a WireWorld optical cable- WOWish, BUT, was rolled off. I decided to replace the 5ish yo Morrow Audio unjacketed multistrand power cord to the PS 5 with a WireWorld Electra 7 PC to a fantastic a transformation in warmth, clarity, imaging and holographic sound stage hth |
Auditioned many D amps myself. Not for me! as mentioned, it is shallow sounding, and no life to it, compared to A or AB amps. There is more to class,AB that themD sound. , My amps (both systems) are much,more detailed than themD stuff. Many of you swear by them, but I’ve compared my Sunfire amp to some amazing D amps, the Sunfire class H is,much,more lively and open, better bass and crunchy midrange than the D I compared them too. The Sunfire I’ve compared to numerous amps,,and the old,Carver beast has betterednthem all, even some AB amps. My opinion....... both taps sounded more lively than themD moos! |
*L* I can't help to view the whole squabble over D amps as akin to the era when SS challenged tubes....(Yeah, I'm old enough for that..). "It sounds like..." and the whole spectrum of commentary parrots what occurs now. Dry....Disappointing....Lifeless....an abortion of tech....bound to fail, flaying about in the process.... Fine. Turn off your cell phones, and go back to land lines. Oh, and shut off that flat screen while you're at it. There's already those amongst this rabble that are hybriding tubes and SS in various configs. When someone posts that their ears are leaking due to the lack of 'moisture' in the repro of their personal taste of racket from the speakers, Then I'll have a more serious consideration of the 'obvious negative aspects' of (lack of) class D. I've a couple of the 'low rent' D amps for 'play purposes', and have yet to vomit, break out in hives, have my ears seal shut, or my mind glaze. No, I didn't expect either to cause an orgasm, either. On the other hand, it's apparent that the development of D amps is moving along rather nicely, enough to make the naysayers bitch more. 'Twas always, and ever will be, such. It's called progress. How one views the direction has always been an issue. Enjoy yourself, mapman....there be critics always, everywhere. ;) |
| Post removed |
I just wish you guys (doubters) could stop in Ohio and hear my completed Legacy system, complete with their new V-series amps. And yes, their class D’s. I replaced a ATI Signature Series , which was a bad’est boy ATI made, with these new V-2 and V-5 Amps. Stunning, especially at over a 100 db with music. (Video Concerts) . I have invited about 8 couples, and a few friends over for evenings... and every single one has left with their jaw on the ground. Its amazing how people that feel quite confident they know a good sounding system. .... walk away dazed with " I’ve never in my life heard anything like THAT " . Couple of them say they hate me as one told his wife, "Get the hammers out, because when I get home, we might as well beat ours’s with hammers and junk them". Don’t get my statement wrong, My system is a peck of sand in the desert compared to others. But I came from a non class D , and love my new Class D’s. They run really cool, even at sustained volumes. Dead Quiet, something my ATI was not. And dynamically are superior to that monstrous beast that took 2 people to move around ... |
Wrong! I’ve had Sonic Frontiers big boy tube amp with 8 KT88’s , class A/B solid state amps, Japanese SET tube mono blocks... Currently running Channel Islands Audio class D amps, they are the best I’ve owned and don’t heat up the house or weigh much... I have lots of good cables and tweaks, but it’s super liquid, airy, smooth, and neutral... Amazing tightness and deep bass... |
2:31amWhy do some audiophiles treat class D like it’s some kind of venereal disease Some audiophiles are a pretty opinionated bunch I find. They like what they like and that’s the end of it. If they don’t like it it’s trash. Others are less so and recognize the advantages and disadvantages of different product designs and understand how each is unique, even those they choose not to live with. |
| Post removed |
