"By even starting a stupid post like this, make those that have even paid as much as $150!!! for a 10c fuse look just as gullible and been shafted big time also."
But isn't that the same clever psychological tactic that those traveling shill salesmen have been using for centuries?
"Here we have this genuine silver plated cutlery set that would normally retail at Harrods for £2000 a set. How much am I asking?
A grand (£1000)? nah, do me a favour! Not even a monkey (£500), nope for this one time only this royal set, the same as her majesty uses I'm told, can be yours for a only a ton (£100). I'm practically giving them away. Quick take them off my hands before I'm arrested for robbing myself!" etc etc
Rinse and repeat ad infinitum until the customer begins to believe that paying anything more than a few pence for a mere fuse MUST be good value for money.
I met a guy who had a full set of SR Black fuses and they all blew at once on a power surge. He was buying some cheaper SR20 fuses from me, because he still wanted and believed in the SR fuses but could not bring himself to outlay that much again.
The job of a fuse is to blow when needed to prevent damage to the gear. So your fuse $$$s may well go up in smoke as designed at some point. Also fuses are delicate devices that age and wear over time and require replacement at some point to function properly. So often when one hears a difference replacing any fuse a with a new fuse b that is the most likely reason for hearing a difference. That and the fact that merely reseating an existing fuse can improve the contact and make a difference. Saw this all the time even on cheaper gear in years passed replacing fuses for customers at Radio Shack and Lafayette Radio. Replacing old fuses with new was a standard maintenance thing in that fuses typically are not expensive and easy to replace like a pair of worn windshield wipers on a car.
Na, you guys are really missing the point of this thread. I outline it on page one.
Why even start a thread on this ridiculous "snake oil" Unless it’s to bring up talk on more affordable "snake oil" fuser talk
Creating a segue:
Real Estate/Car/SR, sales manual, page 34 paragraph 4 subsection 3. "how to sell "snake oil" to the gullible, and make them believe it".
The thing is, to do things right, you have to address fundamentals first.
The issue I have is when people focus on things like this incessantly.....and never advise to address fundamentals first. Or oversimplify the fundamentals in order to get by all the real hard stuff and just focus on their esoteric tweak of the day that is advertised to deliver sonic bliss all the time no matter what. I guess there is money to be made and bills to pay and suckers are the easiest people to convince to buy whatever band aid someone happens to be selling today, often with a very high price tag in order to work its miracles.
It’s all a bunch of nonsense. But what can you do? There is a sucker born every day and at this price you need only find 1 to do quite well.
You kids just like to dog pile thinking there's strength in numbers, here, on this thread. Even more pathetic is quoting oneself. Self delusion is strong with this crowd.
One thing I find interesting is how much discussion has occurred here considering the possibility (or likelihood) that not a single person who has posted here has purchased one of the $2,844 fuses. At least, I don't remember seeing a post by anyone who has mentioned buying one yet. In that event, the answer to the OP's question must be YES!
I suspect the $2800 fuse is just a marketing ploy to get you to buy their $28 fuses. After seeing some fuses cost fuse $2800, a $28 fuse that can improve your sound (wink wink) seems like a real bargain.
LOL a GREAT salesperson doesn't start at the bottom and work their way UP.
A Great salesperson starts at the TOP and works their way down.. :-)
Same way with your eyes, you greet with your eyes, NOT your eyes looking at their FEET..
BUT the review breaks ALL the rules OR, there really is a sucker born several times a day...
This is when you KNOW a piece of wire will out preform any fuse. You may not have fire protection directly at the amp, BUT at least I won't be making fun of anyone for buying 1-2-3k fuses, when a 2 dollar piece of wire will work better..
This is when GOOD common sense, needs to be GOOD common sense.. Use a beaker 2 inches from the amp.. BUY the fastest acting breaker on earth if you want, with a slow blow side for start up.
What will that cost 50.00 usd.. maybe..
It's worth 2800.00 dollars because someone DID pay for it, not because someone ask that much for it..
If you buy these fuses you now have to upgrade all the rest of the parts in there to the same general cost range also to keep up and not bottleneck the performance you are sure to achieve. Right? Also better start paying your electric company more for better juice upstream. This means war!
We gotta take these bastards. Now, we could fight 'em with conventional weapons. That could take years and cost millions of lives. No, in this case, I think we have to go all out. I think this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part!
“Is $2,844 too much to pay for a fuse?” In a word...Yes.I imagine though that someone will think that if it costs that much it must be worth it, just not this guy.
I have relatively new Audio Research equipment. Not long ago I contacted Audio Research for their opinion on the value of using more expensive "audiophile" fuses. Their response was essentially if they made a difference, we would use them! One cannot argue that AR doesn't want to use better fuses because it would increase the selling price of their equipment!
I would definitely pay $2,844 for a fuse . . . If Jimmy Page or Robert Plant came to install it and play Stairway to Heaven or In My Time Of Dying to enhance the soundstage!
Can anyone provide technical guidance on how I can modify my amplifier?
I wish to add a $2 Littlefuse to the amp’s circuit that will blow first in order to prevent my $2,800 fuse from blowing in the event of an amp malfunction.
@jimmydd - Years ago, I contacted Ayre with a similar question about whether they recommend using aftermarket "audiophile" fuses. I was referred to somebody in the service area who told me they were evaluating how to handle situations where an aftermarket fuse might contribute to an equipment failure and whether to cover such issues under warranty. He indicated they probably would cover those situations (which is consistent with their reputation for great customer service). During that conversation, he never endorsed the use of aftermarket fuses as a way to improve the sound of their equipment and my recollection is that he didn't believe they did much, if anything. On the other side of the coin, I do know one amplifier designer who believes there are differences and improvements resulting from certain fuses and does endorse the use of aftermarket fuses in the equipment he designs.
BTW, for you folks who did not read the OP's whole link, you need to scroll down and you will find the:
these produce a more efficient flow of electrons which allows for greater conductivity. Also, according to Tsang, "the QSA technology removes Bottle-neck Distortions (BND), while independent studies have shown that our fuse technology improves the performance 70 to 80%, while the aftermarket AC power cord is only 20 to 30%
Let's look at the facts.
Electrons don't "flow".
He made up BND.
I bet if asked he can't produce any "independent studies" and even if he could it is impossible to measure a % of improvement.
One of the biggest upgrades for a fuse, is to run a resistor in parallel to it.
This is not for power fuses mind you, but for internal rail fuses. One cannot legally, for good reason, put a resistor in parallel with a primary power fuse.
You can open up a lot of SS amps from the late 70’s to late 90’s and see a resistor in parallel with the rail fuses.
This trick to lessening fuse sound reproduction interference qualities/issues is well known and used often, by audio circuit designers. it’s right there, in many many hundreds of circuits. The designers are well aware of how bad fuses sound.
Nay sayers will really have to get their s** together to ignore this one.
Please, build up an even more fantastical excuse and expose yourself. thanks....
I’m not saying in any way that I agree to a multi kilobuck fuse, though. I’m showing the counter to that.
Cheap fuses definitely degrade sound quality. It defies comprehension how anyone can think otherwise. I mean seriously, if one inch of hair thin cheap wire does not degrade sound quality then why waste money on good wire anywhere? Just run that fuse wire to your speakers. Run the fuse wire for interconnects. Heck run the fuse wire for your AC power! Like I said, defies comprehension. Yet people do believe this BS.
Is one inch of wire worth $3k? Well, if it makes your system sound better than anything else you can possibly do with $3k then logically you would have to say, "Yes!" The "yes" is weak if it is likely to burn out so you have to keep buying it over and over again. The "yes" is stronger if they will replace it. That simple.
The article/review states that if there is a fuse failure in the first year of use, it will be replaced free of charge, no matter the reason, even if it was the user's fault.
So is this a $28 fuse that was listed for $2844 or vice versa? Pretty important to know wouldn't you say? It can't be nearly as good if only $28.50, lol!
, if one inch of hair thin cheap wire does not degrade sound quality then why waste money on good wire anywhere?
cheap has nothing to do with it, that is hyperbole for dramatic effect
in order for it to work the fuse has to have a certain amount of resistance. The energy flowing through it would not heat it up if it did not so it would never blow. So any fuse is going to consist of a "thin wire" of some length. Unequivocally stating that this will degrade the sound might seem like a logical conclusion, but without some kind of proof it is a mere guess.
And the speaker cable analogy makes no sense and is irrelevant because what is a small amount of resistance in an inch of wire would be too much resistance in many feet of the same wire
There are no nano powders or components that could go into that fuse to make it cost even a fraction of that price to make.When you look at things usually used in higher end fuses like silver wire (cost negligible in something as small as a fuse), silver caps (again not that expensive here as they are tiny and thin), then somewhat common passive materials used for a/v products like piezoelectric crystals (quartz, rochelle salt, etc. all inexpensive all easy to find), and tourmaline (inexpensive and plentiful), then on to more exotic materials like graphene, graphene based carbon nano-tubes, ceramic powders, rare earth powders, ferroelectric material powders, perovskites, cathode powders, etc.; all the interesting materials that may have an effect, none would be able to fill a fuse and end up costing anything more than $300 for the more rare materials (like say Barium Strontium Titanate or
Lanthanum Strontium Cobaltite, both of which wouldn't end up costing that much for the amount to fill a fuse). From the pictures the fuses looks like they have a glass body and only have a wire on the inside though so I'm assuming all the extra material is in the wraps (which I believe is similarly the case for Telos Audio's fuses, I know Acme Audio Labs use their Crystal Fiber Compound on the outside of their fuses, but those are only $20), there is no real possibility that the wrap contains hundreds or even thousands of dollars worth of materials.
I'm not saying the fuses aren't excellent, but there seems to be unprecedented levels of markup going on here. I know I've paid for tweaks that have components that have materials in them that cost only a fraction of what they sell for and aren't exactly labor intensive
(not that that is the totality of the price since one has to consider r&d), but I've never owned anything that has a markup like this seems to.
This all goes for the outlets as well. There are outlets out there that use pure silver contacts that cost a fraction of these.
Maybe the exorbitant price of their super high end stuff is just skilled marketing to get people like us to talk about the fuses and outlets and get their name out there to sell enough of their $28 fuse which may be where the real money is made?
I didn’t realize that the fuses were red and black. No wonder they eliminate "bottleneck distortion!" The black absorbs all light and therefore gathers photons. The red color reflects other photons. the push-pull of absorbing and reflecting photons obviously causes the electrons to spin in reverse polarized directlons, hence eliminating that dreaded BND. After reading this thread, I keep wondering how my system would sound if it wasn’t suffering from BND? Who knows many extra "poles of articulation" I might get if I could just get rid of the BND?
Well it all depends what you get by installing this fuse. Eg having a Dan DAgustino Momentum preamp, will an update to the HD Momentum prised around 10k give you a better sound or will the 3k fuse? I think I might have been trying about 7-8 aftermarket fuses over the last 2 decades and they have been a very nice expirience every time. Some of my cabels are at a used price around 6-7k and I value them very much, they are really worth the price and I haven’t found any cheaper that can do the trick. so if this fuse really delivers what the reviewer tell us, I think it might be worth a try, if I can get a trail on 30 days.
Every so often I suggest that a simple way to upgrade your system is to wrap all the fuses with aluminum foil, including those in your main power box (or the circuit breakers, same thing). The reason being that high frequencies go through the surface of a conductor, so you reduce the impedance and get much better clarity of sound. Then I wait to see how long it takes for people to stop taking me seriously. I think I had better stop doing this or there will be a spate of very expensive house fires...
There is no mention of where Mr. (not Dr.) Tsang took graduate school physics or any peer reviewed journal papers he at least co-authored to learn the specific quantum mechanics claimed to have been brought to bear in the design of his fuses. Why should we believe him after the unseasonable claim a fuse could make a difference anyone could hear in a double blind listening test. How far can overprice component makers go before we have to dismiss it as marketers who define success as getting the maximum price for the minimum cost? There is so much junk science that can't be called out in this industry and it hurts business because it alienates outsiders who recognize legal-because-free-enterprise-makes-it-fair-game fraud. Look at loudspeaker cable manufacturers who warn us about skin effect requiring special cables costing over $25,000 a pair. At 20 kHz the skin effect reduces the effective cross area of a 12 gauge cable by less than 3% which in series with a 4 Ohm speaker load not to mention amplifier output impedance is a minuscule fraction of total circuit resistance at DC which translates to a few thousandths of a db. This can be calculated. It proves a manufacturer who sells you the need to spend thousands to correct for skin effect is dishonest and should, along with everyone of its kind, never enjoy credibility again. There is an "audiophile" power cord costing $20,000. Not only should claims it makes your sound system sound better be dismissed, but those who claim to hear a difference are either experiencing placebo effect and/or they lying about as many details such as things that would make a double blind listening test valid or trying to defend their belief they were not fooled when they spent over $100,000 to put these power cords on all their components.How far can non-scientists go claiming quantum mechanical breakthroughs without knowing anything about Schrodinger's differential equations and wave functions and how high can their prices go before people realize it is fraud.But more important, how much unearned wealth can they suck out of the economy through scams before their theft becomes as morally offensive as a merchant short changing a blind person handing her $1 bills in change in place of $100 bills which are correct?
Yes. I would have to be a fool to spend that much on a fuse. I would be an even bigger fool if, after spending more than $2800 on such a fuse, I convinced myself that just by changing that fuse my soundstage opened up, backgrounds became blacker, and that my system sounded night and day better because of that fuse. The only way that would be possible is if the fuse I replaced was significantly damaged or worn out from being very old. But then again, I would have tried a factory replacement fuse as my first option regardless. Products like this, IN MY OPINION, take serious advantage of people by making unverifiable grandiose claims. Now, let the post deleting and censuring begin!
I have been using cryod neodymium N45 rod magnets for nearly 15 yrs.They sound spectacular and cost less than $10 each. I plan on treating the magnets with the High Fidelity contact enhancer. Tom
@drbarney1, "But more important, how much unearned wealth can they suck out of the economy through scams before their theft becomes as morally offensive as a merchant short changing a blind person handing her $1 bills in change in place of $100 bills which are correct?"
Big banks and big pharma seem currently determined to bleed the world dry. Sadly there really doesn’t seem to be any limit to human greed.
@wesheadley, "Products like this, IN MY OPINION, take serious advantage of people by making unverifiable grandiose claims."
True, but they NEVER EVER state them. They merely imply them.
The rest is up to the imagination, wishes and suggestibility of the consumer.
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