Ever since I lately stopped obsessing over sound quality and started really listening to music I’m wondering why fidelity was so important to my appreciation. Not that I’m totally on the wagon. I still revel in hearing wonderful sound. It’s just not so all-important anymore. And, sometimes very poorly recorded recordings do turn me off.
It’s just freeing not being so obsessed.
I'm definitely more in the music than the gear camp. There are a couple "mantras" I like.
- Steve Guttenberg's (I think) A good system makes average recordings sound great (as opposed to managing some extreme "audiophile" obstacle course).
- Andrew Robinson: The only person who needs to like your system is you.
My own 2c are that there is more variability in music recordings than gear, so "optimizing" a system to the nth degree is futile. A fortiori, if you listen to a wider range of music. Solo viola d'amore and EBM/punk are worlds apart sound-wise. I enjoy both. That is the problem with the test-track approach to system optimization. It leaves out the vast majority of music, and deprives the listener to the joy of diversity.
To illustrate that, some of my recent interesting music purchases:
- Laibach, 2025, Alamut. Avantgarde neoclassic.
- New Haunts, 2024. Hooks. Eery, neurotic coldwave.
- Algebra Suicide, 1999. Still life. Minimal post-punk spoken words.
- Propter Hoc, 2025. Seduction and Betrayal. Old-school new wave.
My own 2c are that there is more variability in music recordings than gear, so "optimizing" a system to the nth degree is futile. A fortiori, if you listen to a wider range of music. Solo viola d’amore and EBM/punk are worlds apart sound-wise
Sorry but your 2 cent is not enough...
"timbre" perception and immersive quality of sound and spatial indexes of sound are precise acoustic concepts with no relation to genre of music, styles and other crocodilian tastes, i mean my own innate tastes...
Then system/room can be and must be optimized, mechanically, electrically but especially acoustically ...
I listen all music genre save pop and rock...
Bad recordings as well as better one...
Most of the Russian pianists schools of the past is badly recorded but as said Guttenberg you quote and he is right , they sound better on a better optimized system..
I consider myself an audiophile not afflicted by "upgraditis" ...
Just my opinion and may Not be applicable to you, just me
I believe you (or anyone else) may have reach the point of knowing that your gear is at its peak and what you hear is the best sound quality you are aspiring for. for the price maybe that you are willing to impart.
Just a background, I started this HiFi journey when Covid started. I did not really know what true good sound is other than what i heard from numerous concerts, operas and live shows i have been too, other than being loud obviously, i can hear each instrument as they are being played, or singers as clear as they can sound.
So, I endeavored to replicate this at home and no way I was able to do it, except making thing loud. So, I relied on the opinion of others and Reviewers and statistically gathered all and made some conclusions. I listened to equipment and with generous return policies during covid, i tried numerous models because i had time at home to do it. (I cannot believe how many times I was at the Post office or UPS) returning gear, as I journeyed, I realize that some equipment sounds good to my ears but has a so so reviews and some gear sound OK I think but has a lot of good reviews and Reviewers uses them as their referent gear.
Ultimately, I found the gear I wanted and importantly, it has synergy. With this said, I can now learn what is it that most audiophile generally want in their music and magically the Lightbulb lit in my head!! So, this is what I am missing after all. It’s not too far from what i wanted to do or attain, making it sound close to what I heard in actual venues. but there are Compromises and that is what one has to live with
At this point, I know what Quality Music is. I stop obsessing over it, because the next level up is beyond what i can afford. So, I just enjoy the music. The fun is listening to OLD Vinyl recordings. that is truly where I am right now. as I can tell myself, THIS is what music as recorded and played back sounded in the good old golden years.
This is a good discussion. The first piece of advice many years ago was by a small solo owned higher end shop in our town. I was auditioning speakers and trying to be very A/B at home and this was becoming frustrating. He suggest I take two sets of speakers home and just sit and listen non-critically. The "first one you want to turn off after a while that gives you fatigue you bring back, rinse and repeat until you are satisfied....don't over think it." I did well with that advice then all hell unwound and I fell down the rabbit hole over years until I shelved it all. Now it will begin again but hopefully being older will make me wiser.
I have pursued photography about as long as high end audio. Over the last ten years I added a Leica M10 to my stable. And then set out to figure out if the Leica Look was a thing. In the process developed a real appreciation for the camera lenses and the art of photography. Lots of fights with the sharpness as a single dimension... like the details are all guys in audio, and that there is very much something special about a Leica. Like my audio system now.
@mapman”l never refer to myself being an audiophile”
That’s a great way to think. I generally hate the term audiophile, and the “baggage” you fefer to that can come in tow. It can all sound a little presumptuous. I much prefer to use hi-fi enthusiast or as you have previously posted, a “hi-fi music buff”
To say, “l am an audiophile” can be so self serving and who knows for sure?
One thing l have learnt is there are a lot out there who are sure they are, but after hearing the newest system, the gear is definitely nothing special.
"audiophile " means someone interested by sound properties of music implied in gear pieces or system/room use..
Nothing to fear here.
And it is not necessary to lend negative pretenses or intentions to the neutral term because it suit us.
"hifi" enthusiasm suit me less well ...
It suggest more pricing focus on high end gear and gear fixation...
"audiophile" is more neutral ... We can be interested by sound qualities (acoustics) more than by high end gear upgrades...It is my case as "audiophile" ...Hi-fi enthusiast is nearer as expression to marketing than acoustics...
Quite simple, really. Audiophile meaning : A person who is enthusiastic about high - fidelity sound reproduction. Whether it is the equipment, the music, or both, it can be different for each of us. @rvpiano, I am glad you have reached the "music" enjoyment part of your journey. There is quite a lot of "information" embedded in our recordings, and if you want to extract more of it, spending money on upgraded gear, makes you an audiophile. If you can get to a point where it is the music that grabs your attention and enjoyment, it is a wonderful thing. There are listeners who are more into the "sound" than the music, and that is ok for them, as long as they are enjoying it. For me, since I was a youngster, the music was always numero uno. Likely why I can listen to, and enjoy, recordings of all "qualities"; in the car; boom box; phone; anywhere. The "sound" of my main system allows me to hear and appreciate more of the "intricacies" of the musicianship and the composition, and yes, I am hearing the recording quality. This makes me an audiophile, and I am not afraid of characterizing myself as one. However, I am a music listener, first. Be well, my friend, and enjoy! Always, MrD
i’m at the point now where I’m very happy listening to my system, and really enjoying the sound. And it’s because the music is now primary. So, I do believe I’m a somewhat reluctant audiophile.
... Audiophile meaning : A person who is enthusiastic about high - fidelity sound reproduction. Whether it is the equipment, the music, or both, it can be different for each of us ...
That's pretty much the accepted conventional meaning of "audiophile." I don't know why the word seems to trouble some people.
@mahgister”hifi” enthusiasm suit(s) me less well…”
For once mahgister l am not in total agreement with you. I believe understanding “hi-fi enthusiasm” and the origins of the term is an age thing. I think l am older than you (l presume) as l started on this hobby in 1968. Audiophile was not a term used in the 60s, 70s or 80s as far as l can remember.
Hi-fi enthusiasts were in those early days of stereo hi fidelity were not buying super priced high end products…. They didn’t really exist. Those that bought the best at the time had decent well made mass produced products reasonably priced. People like myself would experiment with the gear they had and would try and tweak the best sound they could out of “what they had”. Trying different cables to the speakers involved simple solutions like solid core copper mains cable is one example. The hi-fi magazines at the time talked about ways to achieve small gains in quality. The press was more about the electronics (for those gifted in the knowledge) or building your own speakers and maintaining your equipment. Not like today’s magazines that just want their readers to buy more, more, more, and reap in the advertising money.
So l have to disagree with you thinking hifi enthusiasm means spending larger amounts of money over what an “audiophile” does today. Looking at the history of the term hi-fi enthusiast, to me it means more about spending less money and getting the most out of what you have. It also means buying more vintage gear and being satisfied with it, for what it is. Much the same as a car enthusiast that wants to restore a classic car. He makes it the best it can be, keep it up to standard for the age of the vehicle.
Audiophile also implies buying the best you can, maybe like @rvpiano suggested about “obsessive” and more often at fantastic prices?. Of course like yourself you have proven that you can buy cheap and nothing wrong with that. I think that makes you a hi-fi enthusiast. Getting the best out of what you have with little expense is more about enthusiasm than anything else l know.
I goes too far about "hi-fi enthusiast appellation..
I was focused on the pejorative attribution and refusal of the appellation "audiophile" by some...i am not fearful of this word... I am audiophile (interested in acoustics ) and hi-fi enthusiasts (tweakers)
You are completely right about the era... I come to this world in 1951.. and /or
@mahgister”hifi” enthusiasm suit(s) me less well…”
For once mahgister l am not in total agreement with you. I believe understanding “hi-fi enthusiasm” and the origins of the term is an age thing. I think l am older than you (l presume) as l started on this hobby in 1968.
Hi-fi enthusiasts were in those early days of stereo hi fidelity were not buying super priced high end products…. They didn’t really exist. Those that bought the best at the time had decent well made mass produced products reasonably priced. People like myself would experiment with the gear they had and would try and tweak the best sound they could out of “what they had”. Trying different cables to the speakers involved simple solutions like solid core copper mains cable is one example. The hi-fi magazines at the time talked about ways to achieve small gains in quality. The press was more about the electronics (for those gifted in the knowledge) or building your own speakers and maintaining your equipment. Not like today’s magazines that just want their readers to buy more, more, more, and reap in the advertising money.
So l have to disagree with you thinking hifi enthusiasm means spending larger amounts of money over what an “audiophile” does today. Looking at the history of the term hi-fi enthusiast, to me it means more about spending less money and getting the most out of what you have. It also means buying more vintage gear and being satisfied with it, for what it is. Much the same as a car enthusiast that wants to restore a classic car. He makes it the best it can be, keep it up to standard for the age of the vehicle.
l believe audiophile implies buying the best you can, maybe like @rvpiano suggested about “obsessive” and sometimes at fantastic prices?. Of course like yourself you have proven that you can buy cheap and nothing wrong with that. I think that makes you a hi-fi enthusiast. Getting the best out of what you have with little expense is more about enthusiasm than anything else l know.
Personally I've always preferred the term 'hifi enthusiast'. 'Audiophile' has aways sounded a bit more than a little pretentious than I like. Too much like a title than a description. I hate titles.
I just bought some stuff from England online. I filled out the order which was duly rejected because I did not include a 'title'. I used 'Mr' which was acceptable but dammed if I know why. I almost typed in 'Duke' to see what would happen, but then I thought that a lack of a sense of humor would defeat the sale.
Some want to place all audiophiles in same bag, for them it means always listening analytically, obsessing with equipment. This may be true for some audiophiles and that's fine with me, no skin off my back. Not all audiophiles like this, obvious by so many threads over many years in this forum. The definition given above is the actual meaning, so don't let others define you.
I dont need to listen analytically now...( i needed it when i tuned my room )
I know what is the balance between all acoustics factors now...
If i perceive an unbalanced factor i correct it ... ( not by a costly upgrade by the way )
I am an audiophile interested by acoustics concepts and experience...
Since my system/room is minimally satisfying i listen music... ( my concept of minimal acoustic satisfaction threshold)
If anything catch my attention as unbalanced i correct it... ( i recently bought filters and buffer for my linear power supply at very low cost because i wanted to decrease the noise floor level and increase the reserve power of my tube pre-amp equalizer Douk T8 pro )
I use equalization for my headphones and speakers... My room and my modified speakers and headphone being already optimized...
Each day i enjoy music with no critical frustration ,,,
If there is a problem, i correct it ...I dont need critical mode of attention...
I like what I've presently play about with, the reproduction I coax out of it, the range of music and the 'other versions' of the arts of noise that please some but not all.
I enjoy taking innocent speakers and rudely modifying them into a version that I can't afford to do so otherwise.
How you feel about that, and how you might object....?
I'll avoid the argument, life is too short, and my hourglass is bottom heavy.
- Mine look better; currently rough at the edges, but I'll go up against these NOW.
-I don't like the concept of 'diffracting' sound waves with cones and/or spheres. It's hard enough to deliver a coherent sound field with current tech as it exists to everyone's agreement. There's already enough bouncing off the floor, ceiling, and walls even with treatments.
-SAF is Nil. She'll file, get everything, you end up with ear buds.
@mahgister “…glad to learn l am not alone with an ass bigger than my chair”
l think @asvjerrywas referring to his longevity and being nearer to the grim reapers visit, but he may care to confirm one way or the other, if one or both are true.
I use the term audiophile to identify myself to normal people because it’s the quickest way to tell people about one of my priorities. It’s faster than saying “I am obsessed with equipment that reproduces the music that I love and spend what people would consider insane amounts of resources to accomplish this goal.”
@mahgister “…glad to learn l am not alone with an ass bigger than my chair”
l think @asvjerrywas referring to his longevity and being nearer to the grim reapers visit, but he may care to confirm one way or the other, if one or both are true.
Oups!
I apologize. You are certainly right.
It is not the first time nor the last i misunderstand some post.
My bad English mastery ?
For sure...
I am not as bright as it seems... No doubt... Thanks for the correction...
Think nothing of it. I am sure @asvjerryis having a great laugh along with this discussion.
Good to lighten up. Reminds me of “The Joker” line…”Why so serious?”. This forum can get so serious.
I always refer to myself as an audiophile. Someone crazy enough to put enormous effort and money into the endless pursuit of perfect reproduction of music. It’s a clinical term. I am afflicted with it.
It isn’t a bragging term as over my lifetime, in any 10 year period, no more than ten people ever saw it, let alone listen to it. It is a very solo affliction.
One fun test when I was in my twenties was does your stereo system cost more than your car. That has been true for my entire life... even when I got a Lexus, then two cars... and it now cost more than my first house.
Si if you won 10 million you wouldn't try some new speakers? With kids entering college I've become more content too, but if I search I know in my hearst there are monetary reasons also. Just me, priorities slow my pace but I'd give those Oden's a try!
If you are enjoying what you have put together, as I am, that's all that matters imo.
Many Many years past, I was at an Audio Event, especially at a time for me when expressing an interest in Audio Equipment from mainstream suppliers where much of my knowledge was from the armoury of the Magazine Media, and a number of demo's in rooms at audio stores, was my Cornerstone.
Whilst at the Audio Event a well known producer of Audio Equipment had presented a CEO Level narrative to the room, gave a system demo' and encouraged a Q&A session.
I was to sit in that room and have a profound discovery, which was to realise I was obsessed to the point I was not enjoying anything about Audio, it was all analysis and endless search, entrenched into me by a commercial battering of sales banter and marketing spiel. This was the moment I chose to change, and seek new direction from what I was so tied down to.
I can't explain how I restructured my interest in audio, but did not buy a Magazine or enter a High Street Store from that time on for many many years and Larger Audio Events were carefully selected for being part commercial / part system owner enthusiasts as the exhibitors.
I started meeting people with a Hobby in Audio and a keen interest in non commercial products and even DIY Builds of audio equipment.
I was to be invited to be demo'd systems set up in homes that really shone, and were totally attainable as a cost and a support offered.
The rest is History, I never looked back, and was to get to a place where I was genuinely really really enjoying my Hobby.
Today the Hobby is centred around Music replayed on electronic devices, it is centred around a Social Network of long time evolved and developing friendships, where homes of strangers are made welcome to share in audio experiences, it is centred around all levels of Skill Set getting together and having access to what I class as the full rounded audio experience in relation to individuals met and what they can offer.
At a social event today with a good sized turn out. I am on first name terms and free to contact outside of the event, regular owners of Audio Equipment who have similar passions shown for their hobby as my own, Builders of Audio who are quite adept in their skills and make myself seem very short of savvy, EE qualified Designer / Builders of their own designs used for audio purposes who are very very inspiring(The types who are also hired to produce designs for Audio Companies), Proprietors of Audio Businesses who in some cases have stock worth substantial sums (single items in excess of £150K), CEO's who are designers/Co Designers of their Companies Audio Equipment Range.
It is great to experience individuals that are detached from their Vocation, letting their hair down and expressing themselves as a Hobbyist, where all present are Likeminded Hobbyists of Audio used for replaying recorded music.
The outcome being there is always a loaned audio device or three put forward to be used on the day or be offered for extended experiencing on other systems, there is always strong support to inquiries made. Add to this the Banter - Food, what's not to like.
Obviously this is all far removed from the definition of being an Audiophile (Interest in Electronics used for Music Replays) that many adopt as the meaning, which is a coined phrase created during the 50's as a Marketing Spiel along with other coined phrases like High Fidelity.
If one can see through the sales Spiel and look at Audio being the evolving meaning of Audire (Latin - To Hear) - Audio typically meant to hear sound as a result of electronics producing the info that was transformed into End Sound.
Phile being Greek (Phil - To Love, To be Passionate About)
I do thoroughly relate to and strongly sense those I spend time with those who are able to fully express their enjoying hearing music as a hobby and are able to express they are quite passionate about their hobby, to the point they prioritise participating and making time for it.
Audio Equipment in my take, are Tools and Enablers, they are essential to assist with creating End Sound that brings a community together, the Equipment is not what the community has its full focus on, and that is the absolute strength, that would be my place of 30 Years Past.
One could say a Audio Utopia 'Realised' (Greek - Never Never Land - Modern Translation - Imaginary Perfect Place)
I can't explain how I restructured my interest in audio, but did not buy a Magazine or enter a High Street Store from that time on for many many years and Larger Audio Events were carefully selected for being part commercial / part system owner enthusiasts as the exhibitors.
I started meeting people with a Hobby in Audio and a keen interest in non commercial products and even DIY Builds of audio equipment.
I was to be invited to be demo'd systems set up in homes that really shone, and were totally attainable as a cost and a support offered.
The rest is History, I never looked back, and was to get to a place where I was genuinely really really enjoying my Hobby.
Great post!
This was also my experience...
I was impotent and unable to pick the dreamed pieces of gear, unable to choose and stay happy once i did and unable to afford what i wanted...
Then i quit reading about gear...
I read about acoustics to understand sound, i enter in modifications of gear, Tweaks, and experiments in acoustics...
I had then fun, results, and nowadays i mostly listen music satisfied...
I means i reached the minimal acoustical satisfaction threshold, with a 1000 bucks system (headphone+speakers/room) give me 15,000 bucks i will reach the optimal acoustical satisfaction threshold, give me 250,000 but perhaps i will need more, in these waters i had no experience but i will target the "maximal acoustical satisfaction threshold .
I could have added to give something back, especially with the hope somebody at a place I once left behind, was on a journey seeking change. I have been an exhibitor of my own system at Audio Events where I frequented to meet others not following mainstream. An event where Commercial Venture and Hobbyist hire a Hotel Room for a weekend to create their space for presenting their systems.
I have created a room that is witnessed to be overly filled with visitors, queues have been formed to get the chance to enter. I have shared extensive conversation with those with a fledgling interest, seasoned enthusiasts and designer/producers. The 'icing on the cake' being, I have witnessed visitors to the room who had seemingly spent more than half the time of the attendance period for the Event in my room, where I played multiple tracks for them of their brought along albums.
Treating individuals with the exact same kindness I was offered when I was a sponge learning the info I carry with me today.
To be honest, it's impossible to relax and enjoy the music with the bad sound system. Why so many a'philes hear their system alone? It's because other family members can't stand the sound more than few minutes and they don't want to hear it never again. It's that bad. They can stand $10 MP3 players but not your expensive audio system. Do you think whose ears are wrong? Do you think you are really relaxed with your system sounds?
You can try to relax your body with your system's sound, but your brain isn't really relaxed. You know what you go through when you listening your system.
A'philes are searching for the good sound all their lives. But you don't understand what is a true good sound since your ears are biased with bad sounds all around us. The good sound at the store isn't a good sound at your home.
The original music is an absolute reference. Don't trust your ears unless you hear the original music correctly. When your system sound closer to the original music, non-a'philes respect you and enjoy your system together. If you are an a'phile, make your system sounds close to the original music. Alex/Wavetouch audio
I spent years living as a pretty much ocd audiophiles. Massive amounts of reading and researching, going to audio dealers, attending shows, listening to other's systems, keeping audio journal (which by the way continues, although much condensed these days). Audio was a drug and I was hooked.
Funny thing though, I'm mostly rather nostalgic about all of it, I recall mostly good things vs bad. Its only when on rare occasion I look back through the journals and see the angst in the pages I wrote do I recall the bad times.
At this point, I can say it was all worth it, right of passage for me, getting deeply involved in this hobby probably served to keep me out of trouble in other areas. Getting deeply involved in cars and motorcycles served the same purpose. Getting deeply involved in hobbies is also a great leaning experience, exercises the mind and has utilitarian purpose in that I do most of my own repairs and maintenance on all manner of things. In the audio realm I've done much diy repair and maintenance with direct help via phone from the designers and owners of equipment in my system. DIY all my electrical work, dedicated lines and optimizing whole house grounds.
At this point in life non judgemental about all manner of hobbyist, I've encountered the still obsessed ocd types, equipment churners, etc, I suppose all are fulfilling some inner need, whatever gets their rocks off ok with me.
I must say with my stereo rig, I'm more than happy with its sound Could be better, absolutely but I jumped out of the rabbit hole I bought my VAC tube amp and ARC LS15 tube pre amp back in 1995 Many other updates over the years But the one that really brought it up to the next level was the addition of my tower speakers with built-in powered subs with gain control and my two SVS Ultra 13 subs with the upgraded plate amps with DSP I'm now listening to truly full range music with no indication were my subs are located I listen to everything from Frank Sinatra to Odesza and can't get the smile off my face
l am definitely not an audiophile. I know it for sure. I have spent more on my record and CD collections in the last 55 years than l ever have on all my audio equipment. Do l have OCD with music or does that make me a music lover?
One thing for sure is…. I have never found the need to fall in love with my hi-fi equipment.
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