If you’re just going to have a digital system, you can probably lose the preamp.
Don’t worry about a popular DAC being available used. Popular items have more sales so there are more used available. this is a win for you.
Don’t worry about tube life. they last a long time and the tubes in DaCs aren’t that expensive. Also, generally your DAC won't be in service for TV watching. I use my amp with $2K of tubes in it to watch movies. A tube dac can be a very good thing. I have a Lampizator tube dac. In the price range you are looking consider the Baltic. If you pick up a DAC with Volume Control, you can get rid of the Pre.
Jerry
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I use two dacs one for optical TV (fairly inexpensive) connection and the other for USB music and then switch the inputs at the preamp. I own the MOJO X SE and the USB input is really, really good. Knowing what I do now the MOJO Y AM would have saved me some money and more than likely performed just as well
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Musetec 006 owner here. It's that good. No fatigue after listening for long durations. I was so impressed with the Dac that I purchased the musetec preamp as well, and I have to say it rivals my tune preamp with 6922 cryotone treated tubes.
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I’ve been using the AM Tubadour V for about a year, averaging 4-6 hours of use per day, and it’s still performing flawlessly. Its tubes are readily available on eBay from former Soviet republics. A pair of 6S45P tubes costs around $40, and the 6Ц4Р-ЕВ rectifier is priced at approximately $5.I’ve purchased several sets from sellers in Ukraine and Kazakhstan. The unit is certainly not a tube-eater.
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@carlsbad2 I have already purchased the preamp and it is exceptional. So the good thing is I don't need volume control in a DAC.
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@danager That did cross my mind to get 2 DAC’s. A inexpensive DAC and the Mystique y. Benjamin talked about getting a $30 adapter to convert toslink to AES in the mystique X. Have you ever tried to listen to movies thru your mystique. I bet their isn’t a difference in sound because of the TV source.
@vettegood I have not even looked at the Hugo TT but I have heard about it. I will have to check it out.
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@hasmarto I am glad you told me the price of those tubes. They seems very affordable. What did you upgrade from? Have you had another Audio mirror DAC? The Tubadour ivse is quite a bit less in price and wondering if there is a huge difference in sound.
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You can shop for a DAC that provides all of the inputs you currently need. Alternatively, you can shop for a DDC that provides the necessary inputs and outputs in the preferred format for whatever DAC you choose. You would then switch inputs via the DDC, instead of the DAC. The first option is simpler and probably less costly, and if you choose a DAC with volume control, puts all the user controls in one box. The second option may have more flexibility and the potential for improved performance.
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Emotiva XDA-3 for $700 brand new.
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@shmeet This is off topic, but could you tell us more about you experience with the Mustec preamp? I have never seen a review of it. What tube preamplifier do you have that it equals? Thanks.
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@brbrock
I haven't ported TV sound thru my Mystique. One of the reason is it replaced a DAC that already had the optical input and the other issue is that to change inputs on the Mystique you have to get up and push the button manually. and it's easier to change it on the preamp with the remote.
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@brbrock FWIW, you can buy a brand new Terminator 15th for the price of the used Terminator Plus and it’s the same DAC except for the fancy faceplate. @audioman58 can help you get one for a good price.
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@brbrock
I tried the Chord Qutest and the Lab12 DAC1 Reference, and before that, I was using the built-in DAC of my Marantz SACD player. By the way, I forgot to mention that new production Russian tubes are available from Sovtek (6C45Pi) for $50 each, but I wouldn’t recommend them.
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@@dbb - my tube pre amp is made by response audio / musical Bella ( formerly purity audio) the engineer or builder Bill Baker was/is working for Raven and build his own stuff. The foundation preamp the he built me came stock with a solid state rectifier I Bill if he can make it with a 5ar4 rectifier, so he built a separate chassis that power the rectifier and also installed a 12v and 5v Lp into it to power a streamer or Dac. The foundation preamp is very quite, smooth and picks up alot of detail. I'm feeding the the preamp from the puritain 156 with Aq hurricane high current. Feeding to the Gallion TS A20 power amp ( also a very good peice of Kit)
Currently using wathan cyro treated rectifier and 6922tubes great results.
Now to the mustec preamp with 200 hrs of burn in. Fantastic, sounds like a tube preamp, when I hit the 500 hrs recommend burn time of the preamp I will report back , I also want to AB the two preamps.
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@dbb also I have been streaming directly from my laptop to the mustec 006 Dac with a 15 f6 AQ usb cable from YouTube music ( i know it's temporary) putting in an order for their innuos pulsar and network switch .
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I have the Audio Mirror Tubadour V and was drawn to it because of the tubes. I dont have any experience with any of the others but the Holo Audio May KTE was on my short list as well. After reading about the tubadour..it just tripped my trigger. Vlad the owner is very accessable and answered my questions and was a dream to work with. I am sure if you reach out to him...you will be impressed...he knows about other dacs and may be able to answer comparisons on some of them.
What impressed me was the quality of parts used. Lundahl transformers, Vishay resistors,GAIA isolation feet, Furutech gold IEC inlet, built-in USB re-clocker..just a lot of attention to detail.
Needless to say I am a very happy camper.
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OP,
Yes you want to keep the preamp. Only in very few and specific systems does a preamp not significantly improve the sound. Great preamps are a part of nearly all great systems.
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@ghdprentice I am definitely keeping the preamp. The amp is a decendent of the SMC Audio VRE-1.
@scp I am really interested in the Audio Mirror DAC and one of the Mojo Audio DAC's. The Mojo Audio DAC's don't have TOSLINK. Both have excellent parts and great reviews.
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The Holo Audio is excellent. I love the sound and it’s very well built.
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I use a Benchmark DAC3 HGC as both a DAC and preamp, feeding a Benchmark AHB2 Amp. VPI turntable, Oppo 103 for ripping SACD's, an old Pioneer CDR, and a desktop computer for Tidal and JRiver.
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@tonyrox I am a fan of Benchmark gear and now own the DAC3B and HPA4 now. I owned the AHB2 many times. I found that adding the LA4 or HPA4 preamp to be a big improvement over the DAC3 HGC, which I owned long ago. I think the preamp is the best component Benchmark makes.
@brbrock I owned one of the Audio Mirror DAC (maybe V3) in the past. It is a warm-ish DAC and not the highest in resolution. The Musetec 005 DAC was also a warm-ish DAC but with more details. The new 006 seems to have improved on the details that I found a bit of a weak point on the 005.
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You’re running audio through your TV, correct? Well, this is a lot of overkill because your system is limited through a TV using toslink. Know this very well as I’ve done similar over the years.
Very familiar with SMC Audio and I owned their Rev. A DNA 300 amp (with carbon wire upgrade) which is stellar. Had sold it leading to a move but it was fantastic. Based on your system, I don’t think you are going to achieve the best results with high end DACs vs. available excellent DACs.
You can maybe try out a couple of used DACs like an AKM version of the RME ADI-2 or a Chord Qutest for not too much versus many of these named in the thread here.
You may be more surprised that they perform on par with some of the others listed here for your system. An audio system is the sum of everything (room, synergy, etc.) and people often forget that especially how the amplifier is such a primary, critical driver overall.
Best of luck on your audio journey.
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Last year at this time I was in your same position and I was guided into my ultimate purchases by advice given here. It is impossible to hear everything let alone hear the units connected to your existing components(synergy).
I ended up with a HiFi Rose 250 with a Denafrips Venus2 12th DAC. Denafrips is uncanny good in my system. Therefore, if you’re interested in their T2, I would predict you’ll love it for the $$ value. If I A-B the Denafrips vs the Rose internal DAC it’s obvious that the Denafrips is worth every penny.
There are other R-R DACs that people seem to love. Personally I have listened to high end chip DACs connected in my system (Aurender & Lumin) & I would choose an R-R over a chipset due to their unique sonic qualities. However the Denafrips is the only one I connected to my gear.
I can also endorse the Rose as a streamer and have been very pleased with their App as on-par with Aurenders. The app is incredibly important in terms of your overall experience. Both of the aforementioned are superior to Lumin & Goldnote.
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brbrock, I just added a used Denafrips Terminator to my setup and stream via Wiim Ultra. Although the DAC is 4 years old it is fabulous to my ears. It replaced a Cambridge 851N that broke twice. The Terminator brings more detail and much broader soundstage. I went with the Denafrips based upon numerous reviews and because I prefer the vale of used I was not able to demo any other DAC’s.
My other components:
McCormack DNA 0.5 amplifier
Manley Jumbo Shrimp preamplifier
Kef 104.2 speakers
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@brbrock I don’t have a comment on DACs, but I do commend you on your choice of amp. I have the same one.
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As you are confronting, there is ever-expanding world of high-performance digital-to-analog converters (DACs), there are numerous options ranging from $1,900 to well over $30,000. After an extensive auditioning process, I have two standout recommendations that deliver exceptional sound quality at their respective price points.
Linear Tube Audio Aero DAC (with Ray Reserve Tubes)
The first and most compelling choice is the LTA Aero DAC equipped with upgraded Ray Reserve tubes. This DAC embodies the warmth, depth, and natural tonality that tube-based designs are known for, yet it retains an impressive level of detail and transparency. With its refined presentation, expansive soundstage, and lifelike imaging, the Aero DAC effortlessly competes with significantly more expensive options.
Denafrips Pontus 15
For those seeking a near-reference-level R-2R DAC at a more accessible price, the Denafrips Pontus 15 is a stellar option. Representing a substantial upgrade over the Pontus 12, the Pontus 15 has been favorably compared by some reviewers to its more expensive sibling, the Venus, in terms of tonal accuracy, dynamics, and resolution. While it doesn't quite match the Aero in organic richness, it comes remarkably close, especially after an extensive burn-in period.
Critical Considerations: USB and Burn-In
To extract the best performance from either of these DACs, USB cable selection is crucial. While the Cardas USB is serviceable, an upgrade to something like the WyWires Platinum USB can be transformative, unveiling greater clarity, microdynamics, and soundstage depth.
Burn-in is another essential factor:
The LTA Aero DAC requires at least 200 to 300 hours of continuous playback before reaching its full sonic potential.
The Denafrips Pontus 15 arrives with 100 hours of factory burn-in but needs 500 hours or more to fully settle, with continued refinement over time.
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@romanesq I won't be listening to music thru the TV just movies. I do realize that my equipment is overkill for TV but might as well use it watching movies.
@rkfaberdds Most of the DAC's I'm interested in are R2R DAC's. Thank you for the info about Hifi Rose. I have not checked into their equipment but have definitely seen people talk about them on the forum. I will look more into them.
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A few of us brought our DACs to Dave Raden’s for a blind shoot-out. We had a lot of fun, and this was more difficult than I had thought. Only Dave Raden knew which DAC was playing, and his switchbox worked well for this. Among the contenders were the LTA Aero, Denafrips Pontus II, HOLO Audio Spring 3 R2R, and the very expensive Grimm Audio MU2. The results were unanimous. The Aero DAC was the winner by a slim margin. The Holo Audio was close to the Aero, and the Denafrips Pontus was in last place. The quality differences between these DACS were closer than I would have thought.
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Glad you shared this here on this thread, @lancelock. This was my point.
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@danager I'm surprised you haven't looked into the space tech lab dacs.
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If you're getting a bit too OCD central with dacs in 2025, it implies that you have a horrid room (sonically) and/or the wrong speakers.
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@invalid
The Space Tech Labs DAC was on my consideration list and I've actually heard one at Al's shop. It was very good as is all of his stuff but I wasn't sure I wanted a Tube DAC.
To be honest what sold me on the Mojo was his white paper about DACs. I liked what he said and his explanations correlated with what I was hearing. 45 day return policy, built like a truck in America and it pairs so nicely with the SPT passive preamp and the SPT hybrid tube amp. I'm really happy with the sound.
Speakers on the other hand... not a lot of places in the northwest carry large horn speakers. There is a place that have the Jubilee on display but it's either the room, the electronics driving them or the combination or just the speakers but they don't sound anywhere near as good as they should for the money they're asking and in their listing space a huge step backward from what I'm hearing at home.
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A entry level streamer + DAC made by a Chinese company has been reviewed well recently, Eversolo DMP-A6. And the high-end models A8 and A10 are worthwhile to try too.
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I went through a lot of DACs before I landed on the Holo May KTE.
It's paired with the Holo Serene preamp and I find it has exceptional clarity, good vibrance and loads of musicality. Really easy to listen to for a long time.
Have a read a couple of recent re-reviews and it's sill holding it own nicely.
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