Well, when I started this topic I thought it would be pretty harmless. Who knew? I was just curious about the size of this hobby...
How large (or small) is the audiophile market?
Just curious, how big is the total market for audiophile hardware? There seem to be a lot of manufactures vying for a a small pool of potential buyers. I've read in places that as boomers age the market is shrinking. I don't know very many young people, but none that i do know are into it. Anyone have any idea what the total market size is?
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@mahgister I see you will continue to argue and fight until you have won.
I give up. You win. I loose. |
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An excellent post cleeds, I wish I had written it. @mahgister , my friendly advice would be to just not respond to them. We will be here for years to come, not worth the effort today. |
After accusing me of attacking all audiophiles... :) my sentence do not appear as an ad hominem attack but as an observation about your behaviour posting about me as person and not about my proposition in my posts about my journey as audiophile: grounding methods and acoustics concepts importance etc ... |
More name calling and ad hominem attack.
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This post of me above describe my own audiophile journey in part... How in the world someone can takes a bit of irony mixed with my own audiophile journey for an attack on all audiophiles ? Excuse me but you are deluded or very sensible skin... Anybody else reading this think that my intention was mocking all audiophiles ?
my intention was pointing to acoustics as the best tool to learn.. And grounding process at peanuts cost exist and work... Is it necessary to ban irony ? At least i dont use only sarcasms against specific person here as the one calling me narcissist or deep33 insulting me for one year non stop... Ironical i am sometimes yes... But i dont attack anyone in particular as you just did with no argument except truncating my post, your first post above pretending that i attack all audiophile forgetting that i am myself an audiophiles as i said multiple times ..
Read an acoustic article instead of reading my posts ...
By the way did you know that you can ground a piece of gear at no cost with small quartz or other convenient minerals and a copper cable ? it does not takes a genius to read my proposition as an experiment ...
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Don’t know what you are talking about. I copied from this thread -How large (or small) is the audiophile market?. Here it is in its entirety:
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I am sorry you consider my questions an attack on you. Maybe when you find an appropriate explanation why you say what you do, you can respond.
Where did I call you a narcissist? Why do you assume my post is about you? Have an argument about what?
Okay, here it is now:
Please forgive me for not quoting all your words. My partial quote gave you some edge to vilify me and vindicate yourself. I guess this is now an argument. And you have won the argue. You called audiophiles fools but you really do not think audiophiles are fools. I was wrong.
Calling someone out for name calling (audiophiles are fools) was a mistake on my part. I am sorry.
Obviously you have all day to post on Audiogon. I do not. So you can continue post and win all the arguments. My hat off to you sir. |
You are not ashamed to be so bad faith in front of everybody? I will if i was in your shoes...
here you cut my post from his thread context: What is the most underestimated fact in audio ?
Then you arrange the post truncating it from his context to make it as if i had disparaged everybody instead of recommending to pay attention to the grounding process : grounding each piece of gear rightfully... I proposed cheap method to do it with only quartz or others minerals, for 10 years now, so what ?
I dont think that attacking someone as "narcissist" after truncating his posts and stripping them from their context distorting my intention is a wise and intelligent way of doing thing...
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You posts attacks are so thin and of bad faith i will not answer each one... You call me a narcissist because you dont have argument... You are the one twisting my post above and my sentence and distorting them of their intention to make a point and present it as an insult to all audiophiles, as it is clear that being an audiophile myself i crossed the same crossroad as everybody...
Guess what are the objective facts in audio science ? It is acoustics research which is the truth...( not mere room acoustic as most thought about when they see the word "acoustic") Read Edgar Choueiri about sound... Before upgrading... And i dont merely and mainly recommend to buy a piece of gear here like the other lying clown suggested falsely to disparage my point ... i recommend his science papers articles and videos to understand some acoustics truth...
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I will not add to the lies and insults of deep 33
I will only correct one of his false claims about me... Dr. Choueiri is a physicist and acoustician who publishes articles in acoustics... I discovered him reading his articles few years ago... He do not SELL gear as a means of living by the way ... He is not a reviewer... He is a scientist and i recommended multiple times since few years his articles which helped me figure out audio as well as Floyd Toole and Dr. Gorike... Nobody need to hear his BACCH system to read science and learn why he is a genius in acoustics as was Dr. Gorike the founder of AKG ... If you doubt my words read all the posts of insults of deep33 since a year anytime i spoke in a post... He mocked me without stop when i said i tuned my resonators by ears...( he seems to think it is impossible) He attacked me with a flow of insults when i discussed with Amir ( A very polite person) about what is Timbre he throwed insults at me with no arguments about the acoustics concepts under discussion... i never insulted him...I even congratulated him in the beginning...He has a bad memory unlike me... But as i do right now i ANSWER and correct him and i will answer any other person who go with ad hominem attack...It is why i dont need to be defended i can do it myself with reason... Dont trust me, track his posts insults count against me and count the times he gave me a rational argument...
I never spoke to the audiogon staff about anybody here by the way ... Even when one here accuse me of murder... You can ask Tammy... I never need anybody to defend me... As many knows i wrote posts myself and i dont lack rational arguments... Ad hominem attack is a tool for narrow brain...
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What makes you the determinator of what is truth and what is not?
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Five main habits of a narcissist include: 1) A grandiose sense of self-importance. 2) A belief in their own specialness. 3) A constant need for admiration. 4) A sense of entitlement. 5) A tendency to exploit others for personal gain.
They also often lack empathy, are easily envious, and struggle with criticism |
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Gee, you'd think the moderators would have noticed such behavior. How did they miss it? Perhaps you should alert them. Or, you could just leave @mahgister alone. He's been a welcome presence here for a long time. |
I think the audiophile community has shrunk drastically. In my metro area we have one audio shop. Its out of a guys house and he sells very boutique audio gear. The population in this region is well over a million people. On a personal note...I've had some Audience cabling for sale now for a couple of months. Its priced very fairly, and I can't even get an offer. Its getting harder and harder to sell used gear.
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By gawd, we're cranky.... I'm just a 'phile of sorts that's so used to doing the improbable with next to nothing that I'm at the point of doing the impossible with nothing...just to make the attempt, to occupy my remaining time, with the little I can amass to try to do so. As was quote in a sort of context; "If there be self-made hells, we all must live in them." At least, it keeps me warm and occupied.....*S* |
I posted opinions motivated by arguments and articles.. I never insult people... But i answer to people like the last two one, one truncated my post to imply i am here to insult... The other insulted me for months with no arguments... And now you enter this game saying that i am hated by all which is false... I just posted here today about music in the jazz thread and nobody insulted me there ...I posted ARGUMENTS....go and read them... It seems not all people as you just did judge me harshly as you do... I dont berate people i gave ARGUMENT...With reference and articles or videos... For example : What is "timbre" ? What is a resonator ? What is musical time ? (right now in the jazz thread i discuss about this with intelligent non insulting people unlike the two above here... Why did you feel the right to post this about me ? A hunch? Where did i insulted you ? If i did not insulted you why have you the right to say that everybody is against my posts ? My defect is this : i answer to those who attack me... I plead guilty... But i am polite with polite people... And i gave arguments not sarcasms as deep33 ...Go and read all the posts insults he gave me since 6 months... Come back after and if you think his insults are motivated demonstrate to me why he has any reason to insult me without end, and i will quit audiogon.. If not shut up... You did not add anything positive as a rational argument... I love people and i hate nobody even those who insult me with no reason... But i answer them as i just answer your unmotivated disrespectful post who fall from the sky because stupidity act as a magnet and gangstalking someone please to some..
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@mahgister you accomplish the impossible. You are successfully uniting people who are otherwise in fierce disagreement about pretty much everything in life. But we all/mostly all agree that you are ruining these conversations by constantly berating people. And I am leaving out the nonsense part. |
i am perhaps an imbecile but you are bad faith... I answered to someone who truncated my post to suggest i came here to insult people... What are your part here between him and me ? You gave a good advice though... Why not ignoring my posts yourself as you advise others instead of insulting me without end with NO ARGUMENTS for many months now ?
«Indians dont need mirror but stupidity do» -- Groucho Marx
For the economist Cipolla who wrote a free book on this matter, a stupid person is precisely someone who attack someone else with not benefit for him and even at his own expanse for no useful reason.. I think deep33 correspond to this description ... Why attacking me with NO ARGUMENTS for almost a year now if you are not a stupid person ? Is it because i know how to tune a resonator as i did for 2 years in my room ? You wrote to me it is impossible to do...Since then you rage reading my posts... Incredible stupidity and free sarcasms for no reason save ignorance... Please go with your own advice ignore my posts...
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Of my university friends only a handful were/are into hifi. One is a designer at Bose, the rest are engineers or engineering PhD profs or research scientists. None are on the constant hunt for the next big set of gear. They made fairly substantial purchases and stuck with them until they failed and then researched the next purchased and stuck with that. None subscribe to forums or magazines. |
This is my complete post and sentence which was truncated ...
Honest people when they quote someone put them in context and dont truncate the sentence to do their own bidding and insinuation... My complete sentence describe this hobby in general as relating to an alternative : we go blind in an upgrade expansive race or we think and try to understand acoustics...( we are all deep in this alternative me and all others audiophiles) My sentence was there to describe a central problem of this hobby not mocking anyone... Anybody in this hobby has played with the upgrades race... Even me... Then read a post COMPLETELY and read the intention of the poster correctly before insinuating something of your own making...
So why are you here truncating my sentence to turn it into a sarcasm against all people instead of describing a central dilemma in audio... I dont see how your post is a constructive post and not an attack or insinuation against me ? |
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Just for comparison - Rolex are reputed to make about a million watches a year and to hold 30 percent of the luxury watch market - so market size, about 3.5 million sales per year. I would hazard that there are a lot more luxury watch owners than audiophiles. I've posted here several times about the fact that the audiophile demographic is very imbalanced, gender-wise and shrinking. But the company demographic is ageing rapidly too so it my decline as the customer based does too. |
KEF (U.K.) These are top end audio companies who can compete with anyone. BTW - to see where audio market is going head over to Head-fi. The fact that the RAAL 1995 Immanis ($10K headphones) are lusted after gear on Head-Fi tells me that cohort cares deeply about audio quality in an OCD way. When that younger cohort moves up in their careers and housing, I think they buy other audio gear. One big difference is that music (and audio reproduction) is no longer a central part of societies interest. This 70's audio joke would not register with today's younger generation (has me in stiches every time). |
You don’t believe Pioneer/TAD is audiophile enough, eh? Well...Forget TAD and their six figure speakers... i have some relatively higher end PA from regular ol’ Pioneer that can smoke the daylights out of most apparently "high end" rigs (sonically). In fact, that’s the only rig on wheels i’d be happy to bring to a audiophiliac phallus measurement contest like axpona....., just to confuse everyone.
There’s a guy nearby where i live with the full KEF Reference system for his multichannel gaming, music, etc whatever that sounded rather immaculate to my ears. Let’s see, that’s around 25k for the front left/right speakers alone. Again, some apparently lowly hometheater working stiff ended up with something that killed so many ’experienced’ audiophiles around here sonically. So, never say never, i suppose...they may work up to it. On the same note, no one’s all that interested in that godforsakenly ugly incoherent naked Chronosonic emperor. Feel free to hang on to it by yourself. At least, the Magico equivalent had some other merits.
Here’s some of your answer... https://www.youtube.com/shorts/pRdcXfldd-k
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high quality audiophile components is a niche market. How many $100,000 speakers are sold? How many Wadex pieces are sold? Very few. If you looked at the article, their premium products included: List of Top Premium Audio Companies Panasonic (Japan) Source: https://www.businessresearchinsights.com/market-reports/premium-audio-market-110100 I could be wrong but I don’t think is would be going to Volkswagen, Bose, pioneer, or Acura for my audio system. If you looked at the article, they claimed high end was for music, movies and gaming. I’m not sure but I don’t think I would find a pair of $800k Wilson’s for a gaming system. This is a hobby, a niche hobby, that very few people participate in. I think there are more $100k Porsches in our club than there are $100k amps in a 5 million population city. |
Stats don't lie but none of my kids or thier friends want anything with with wires.they don't have the disposable income especially in past 4 years.first kid under orange man 1.9% interest on the house next kid 7% on older less square footage.kid now masters degree can't get one too much money and youngest just grad college miffed she can't find one pays rent .told her to ask her oldest brother what his mortgage is? Less than her rent. Mmm .were old and going 6 feet under and not being replaced.enjoy the music while you can. |
I cannot help you here because i only used my hearing not electronic equalization of the room to tune my room and many mechanical tuned resonators that work on large band frequencies for absorption and reflection... It was not esthetical and not perfect but it was spectacularly good but it takes me too much time and effort and i will not recommend it to everyone save those who want to learn acoustics by -playing with it but i learned so much doing it i will do it again... Anyway my speakers at the times did not go much under 50 Hertz.. I fixed my bass by the placement of the resonators and their dimensions and adjustment...
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It is very cheap but as i can judge (i am no specialist at all) well designed but without on/off button which is not really an annoyance for me... The cleaning effect is immediately audible in my low cost system...It drive my speakers/dac 12 volt and my secondary headphone amp (5volt).. |
I apologize but i did not target anyone and certainly not you...I was speaking in general...
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about people "Who bought costlier product" is not an attack?