Just curious, how big is the total market for audiophile hardware? There seem to be a lot of manufactures vying for a a small pool of potential buyers. I've read in places that as boomers age the market is shrinking. I don't know very many young people, but none that i do know are into it. Anyone have any idea what the total market size is?
@jetterI'm not sure what difference it makes, but I must be an old timer as well. I'm 74 years old and have been on this site since 2009; so not particularly wet behind the ears. Unless you know @mahgister and his morals and scruples personally, how do you know he doesn't go whining to mommy for a deletion and then responds loudly. Are you one of his enablers/apologists? Did you have the post removed? Do you not see the double standard, or do you have one-sided sight as well?
It seems that @mahgister or one of his enablers/apologists objected to my post and some others and went crying to Mommy about their maltreatment. @mahgister won’t admit to it and if he didn’t do it no one else will admit to it either.
Your completely wrong if you think @mahgisterwould bother to have your or anyone else’s post removed. If you haven’t noticed, he stands up for himself and your read or insinuation regarding his nature is way off base to many of us "old timers" who enjoy mahgister being here.
You must have written something that in your estimation was witty but the mods thought the general readership wouldn’t think so.
Gee, you’d think the moderators would have noticed such behavior. How did they miss it? Perhaps you should alert them. Or, you could just leave @mahgister alone. He’s been a welcome presence here for a long time.
An excellent post cleeds, I wish I had written it. @mahgister, my friendly advice would be to just not respond to them. We will be here for years to come, not worth the effort today.
my sentence do not appear as an ad hominem attack but as an observation about your behaviour posting about me as person and not about my proposition in my posts about my journey as audiophile:
grounding methods and acoustics concepts importance etc ...
This post of me above describe my own audiophile journey in part...
How in the world someone can takes a bit of irony mixed with my own audiophile journey for an attack on all audiophiles ?
Excuse me but you are deluded or very sensible skin...
Anybody else reading this think that my intention was mocking all audiophiles ?
my intention was pointing to acoustics as the best tool to learn..
And grounding process at peanuts cost exist and work...
Is it necessary to ban irony ?
At least i dont use only sarcasms against specific person here as the one calling me narcissist or deep33 insulting me for one year non stop...
Ironical i am sometimes yes...
But i dont attack anyone in particular as you just did with no argument except truncating my post, your first post above pretending that i attack all audiophile forgetting that i am myself an audiophiles as i said multiple times ..
Read an acoustic article instead of reading my posts ...
By the way did you know that you can ground a piece of gear at no cost with small quartz or other convenient minerals and a copper cable ?
it does not takes a genius to read my proposition as an experiment ...
You are not ashamed to be so bad faith in front of everybody?
I will if i was in your shoes...
They dont buy quartz to ground their gear homemade.... They bought costlier product...
And your point is?
You judge and smirk at people who do not live the way you think is correct?
here you cut my post from his thread context: What is the most underestimated fact in audio ?
Then you arrange the post truncating it from his context to make it as if i had disparaged everybody instead of recommending to pay attention to the grounding process : grounding each piece of gear rightfully...
I proposed cheap method to do it with only quartz or others minerals, for 10 years now, so what ?
I dont think that attacking someone as "narcissist" after truncating his posts and stripping them from their context distorting my intention is a wise and intelligent way of doing thing...
You posts attacks are so thin and of bad faith i will not answer each one...
You call me a narcissist because you dont have argument...
You are the one twisting my post above and my sentence and distorting them of their intention to make a point and present it as an insult to all audiophiles, as it is clear that being an audiophile myself i crossed the same crossroad as everybody...
Gear matter for sure...
But acoustics matter way more than the choice between relatively good basic pieces of gear...
Most dont want to know this simple truth,
What makes you the determinator of what is truth and what is not?
Guess what are the objective facts in audio science ?
It is acoustics research which is the truth...( not mere room acoustic as most thought about when they see the word "acoustic")
Read Edgar Choueiri about sound...
Before upgrading...
And i dont merely and mainly recommend to buy a piece of gear here like the other lying clown suggested falsely to disparage my point ... i recommend his science papers articles and videos to understand some acoustics truth...
Choueiri....Chouerie...Choueiri all day long...but, never ever heard a BACCH processor.
I will not add to the lies and insults of deep 33
I will only correct one of his false claims about me...
Dr. Choueiri is a physicist and acoustician who publishes articles in acoustics...
I discovered him reading his articles few years ago...
He do not SELL gear as a means of living by the way ...
He is not a reviewer...
He is a scientist and i recommended multiple times since few years his articles which helped me figure out audio as well as Floyd Toole and Dr. Gorike...
Nobody need to hear his BACCH system to read science and learn why he is a genius in acoustics as was Dr. Gorike the founder of AKG ...
If you doubt my words read all the posts of insults of deep33 since a year anytime i spoke in a post...
He mocked me without stop when i said i tuned my resonators by ears...( he seems to think it is impossible)
He attacked me with a flow of insults when i discussed with Amir ( A very polite person) about what is Timbre he throwed insults at me with no arguments about the acoustics concepts under discussion...
i never insulted him...I even congratulated him in the beginning...He has a bad memory unlike me...
But as i do right now i ANSWER and correct him and i will answer any other person who go with ad hominem attack...It is why i dont need to be defended i can do it myself with reason...
Dont trust me, track his posts insults count against me and count the times he gave me a rational argument...
I never spoke to the audiogon staff about anybody here by the way ... Even when one here accuse me of murder...
You can ask Tammy...
I never need anybody to defend me...
As many knows i wrote posts myself and i dont lack rational arguments...
But we all/mostly all agree that you are ruining these conversations by constantly berating people.
Gee, you'd think the moderators would have noticed such behavior. How did they miss it? Perhaps you should alert them. Or, you could just leave @mahgisteralone. He's been a welcome presence here for a long time.
I think the audiophile community has shrunk drastically. In my metro area we have one audio shop. Its out of a guys house and he sells very boutique audio gear. The population in this region is well over a million people.
On a personal note...I've had some Audience cabling for sale now for a couple of months. Its priced very fairly, and I can't even get an offer. Its getting harder and harder to sell used gear.
I'm just a 'phile of sorts that's so used to doing the improbable with next to nothing that I'm at the point of doing the impossible with nothing...just to make the attempt, to occupy my remaining time, with the little I can amass to try to do so.
As was quote in a sort of context;
"If there be self-made hells, we all must live in them."
just add together the number of millionaires [primary market for audiophile products that cost a small fortune], expect that at least half are after convenience and not necessarily high quality audio, IOW Bose users], and that might get you within spitting distance of the correct answer.
@mahgisteryou accomplish the impossible. You are successfully uniting people who are otherwise in fierce disagreement about pretty much everything in life. But we all/mostly all agree that you are ruining these conversations by constantly berating people. And I am leaving out the nonsense part.
I posted opinions motivated by arguments and articles..
I never insult people...
But i answer to people like the last two one, one truncated my post to imply i am here to insult...
The other insulted me for months with no arguments...
And now you enter this game saying that i am hated by all which is false...
I just posted here today about music in the jazz thread and nobody insulted me there ...I posted ARGUMENTS....go and read them...
It seems not all people as you just did judge me harshly as you do...
I dont berate people i gave ARGUMENT...With reference and articles or videos...
For example :
What is "timbre" ?
What is a resonator ?
What is musical time ?
(right now in the jazz thread i discuss about this with intelligent non insulting people unlike the two above here...
Why did you feel the right to post this about me ?
A hunch?
Where did i insulted you ?
If i did not insulted you why have you the right to say that everybody is against my posts ?
My defect is this : i answer to those who attack me...
I plead guilty...
But i am polite with polite people...
And i gave arguments not sarcasms as deep33 ...Go and read all the posts insults he gave me since 6 months...
Come back after and if you think his insults are motivated demonstrate to me why he has any reason to insult me without end, and i will quit audiogon..
If not shut up...
You did not add anything positive as a rational argument...
I love people and i hate nobody even those who insult me with no reason... But i answer them as i just answer your unmotivated disrespectful post who fall from the sky because stupidity act as a magnet and gangstalking someone please to some..
@mahgisteryou accomplish the impossible. You are successfully uniting people who are otherwise in fierce disagreement about pretty much everything in life. But we all/mostly all agree that you are ruining these conversations by constantly berating people. And I am leaving out the nonsense part.
@mahgisteryou accomplish the impossible. You are successfully uniting people who are otherwise in fierce disagreement about pretty much everything in life. But we all/mostly all agree that you are ruining these conversations by constantly berating people. And I am leaving out the nonsense part.
I answered to someone who truncated my post to suggest i came here to insult people... What are your part here between him and me ?
You gave a good advice though... Why not ignoring my posts yourself as you advise others instead of insulting me without end with NO ARGUMENTS for many months now ?
@cdc Kindly ignore the imbecile lest it just gets noisier and noisier
«Indians dont need mirror but stupidity do» -- Groucho Marx
For the economist Cipolla who wrote a free book on this matter, a stupid person is precisely someone who attack someone else with not benefit for him and even at his own expanse for no useful reason..
I think deep33 correspond to this description ...
Why attacking me with NO ARGUMENTS for almost a year now if you are not a stupid person ?
Is it because i know how to tune a resonator as i did for 2 years in my room ?
You wrote to me it is impossible to do...Since then you rage reading my posts...
Incredible stupidity and free sarcasms for no reason save ignorance...
Of my university friends only a handful were/are into hifi. One is a designer at Bose, the rest are engineers or engineering PhD profs or research scientists. None are on the constant hunt for the next big set of gear. They made fairly substantial purchases and stuck with them until they failed and then researched the next purchased and stuck with that. None subscribe to forums or magazines.
It is a fool with money who buy gear pieces one after the other or a fool with no money ready to have fun in a dedicated room whose hobby is acoustics (me)...
This is my complete post and sentence which was truncated ...
Honest people when they quote someone put them in context and dont truncate the sentence to do their own bidding and insinuation...
My complete sentence describe this hobby in general as relating to an alternative : we go blind in an upgrade expansive race or we think and try to understand acoustics...( we are all deep in this alternative me and all others audiophiles)
My sentence was there to describe a central problem of this hobby not mocking anyone...
Anybody in this hobby has played with the upgrades race... Even me...
Then read a post COMPLETELY and read the intention of the poster correctly before insinuating something of your own making...
It is a fool with money who buy gear pieces one after the other
So why are you here? I do not see how your name-calling inflammatory statements have any benefit.
So why are you here truncating my sentence to turn it into a sarcasm against all people instead of describing a central dilemma in audio... I dont see how your post is a constructive post and not an attack or insinuation against me ?
Just for comparison - Rolex are reputed to make about a million watches a year and to hold 30 percent of the luxury watch market - so market size, about 3.5 million sales per year.
I would hazard that there are a lot more luxury watch owners than audiophiles.
I've posted here several times about the fact that the audiophile demographic is very imbalanced, gender-wise and shrinking.
But the company demographic is ageing rapidly too so it my decline as the customer based does too.
These are top end audio companies who can compete with anyone.
BTW - to see where audio market is going head over to Head-fi. The fact that the RAAL 1995 Immanis ($10K headphones) are lusted after gear on Head-Fi tells me that cohort cares deeply about audio quality in an OCD way. When that younger cohort moves up in their careers and housing, I think they buy other audio gear.
One big difference is that music (and audio reproduction) is no longer a central part of societies interest. This 70's audio joke would not register with today's younger generation (has me in stiches every time). The Dating Game: A 300 Watt Receiver 𖥞🎰⭐💰🤑🏆🃏🂡🎲💵👀🌎
You don’t believe Pioneer/TAD is audiophile enough, eh?
Well...Forget TAD and their six figure speakers... i have some relatively higher end PA from regular ol’ Pioneer that can smoke the daylights out of most apparently "high end" rigs (sonically). In fact, that’s the only rig on wheels i’d be happy to bring to a audiophiliac phallus measurement contest like axpona....., just to confuse everyone.
I could be wrong but I don’t think is would be going to Volkswagen, Bose, pioneer, or Acura for my audio system. If you looked at the article, they claimed high end was for music, movies and gaming.
There’s a guy nearby where i live with the full KEF Reference system for his multichannel gaming, music, etc whatever that sounded rather immaculate to my ears. Let’s see, that’s around 25k for the front left/right speakers alone. Again, some apparently lowly hometheater working stiff ended up with something that killed so many ’experienced’ audiophiles around here sonically. So, never say never, i suppose...they may work up to it.
On the same note, no one’s all that interested in that godforsakenly ugly incoherent naked Chronosonic emperor. Feel free to hang on to it by yourself. At least, the Magico equivalent had some other merits.
I’m not sure but I don’t think I would find a pair of $800k Wilson’s for a gaming system.
I do not follow the mid tier equipment market but I do have an interest in the “high end” gear. The “tell” for me is whether the big money investors such as venture funds have moved into the market and are consolidating the small retailers. There is no evidence they are.
I could be wrong but I don’t think is would be going to Volkswagen, Bose, pioneer, or Acura for my audio system. If you looked at the article, they claimed high end was for music, movies and gaming. I’m not sure but I don’t think I would find a pair of $800k Wilson’s for a gaming system.
This is a hobby, a niche hobby, that very few people participate in. I think there are more $100k Porsches in our club than there are $100k amps in a 5 million population city.
Stats don't lie but none of my kids or thier friends want anything with with wires.they don't have the disposable income especially in past 4 years.first kid under orange man 1.9% interest on the house next kid 7% on older less square footage.kid now masters degree can't get one too much money and youngest just grad college miffed she can't find one pays rent .told her to ask her oldest brother what his mortgage is? Less than her rent. Mmm .were old and going 6 feet under and not being replaced.enjoy the music while you can.
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about people "Who bought costlier product" is not an attack?