How large (or small) is the audiophile market?

There is certainly an audiophiles crowd increasing in China though...

 I ordered at peanuts cost  (25 bucks) not only a linear power supply but at 40 bucks a conditioner for DC for my amplifier and it work too without negative impact...

 I will not recommend this for a 20,000 bucks system..

But for a system under 1000 bucks as mine  it does marvel...( lower audible noise floor increase) ...

After appropriate grounding and a good conditioner +linear power supply the noise floor level are so good it is black background...

 

 These offering of a Chinese company specialized in audiophile products reveal there is a demand for low cost audiophiles products which must work if the company want to survive... It reveal an increasing crowd of Chinese customers asking for these  affordable but anyway audiophile quality products...

 

For the matter of this thread, as i already said, i appreciate any person comitted to a brand if it is disclosed...

The more there is of these "paid"  brand affiliated the best for audiogon...

The only condition is that must be disclosed...

 

 

I apologize if i were the cause of any discomfort...

Your sincere words prove to me that i am wrong to have conflate you with some others...

I regret that our encounter turned "sour" ...

 My best sincerely ...

 

Unfortunately you are by far not the worst kind here. You are a human being with a heart and mostly good intentions, you just have an issue with separating facts from feelings.

I am against the removal of any post save murder appeal...

The reason is simple :

I use my brain and i stand behind my arguments...

 

Now where did i insinuate to begin with about someone  personality here ?

Nowhere. I answer to someone attacking me grossly... Yes...

After that , accused of being narcissist, and others epiteths, i answered to those who did that...

Some attacked me in this thread and on others thread (deep33 among others) with no  rational argument about the matter of the thread or about my own take on the matter of a thread but against my "person" "per se", even if they were right it is impossible to tolerate ad hominem attack against anybody ..

I am again censorship of any posts because it erase manifested stupidity from those who throw personal attacks...

I hope i am clear...

 

 

a note:

I am here since 10 years...

I never ask to remove a post...

 Even the post accusing me of murder (covid)...I can defend myself from accusation i have a working brain...

is it clear for those who like insinuating and attacking people without any proof ?

I dont tolerate personal attack of this kind even again anyone here not just myself.....

Anybody accusing me of derailing this thread since my apology in my last post must ask abnerjack  to be responsible in his postings with insinuations...

Insinuations are worst than insults...

I dislike hypocrite...

 And i am not amused by stupidity... ( stupidity is causing wrongs to someone without even taken a benefit from it)

And i never joined a gang attacking someone either here as a scapegoat...as it occured some times against some "personalities"...

I prefer to be on the side of those alone or isolated...

I dont spoke bad either about those who are no more here...

I hope abnerjack has taken note and will abstain in the next year of insinuations about me...

 

 

 

@mahgister and his morals and scruples personally, how do you know he doesn’t go whining to mommy for a deletion and then responds loudly.  Are you one of his enablers/apologists?  Did you have the post removed?  Do you not see the double standard, or do you have one-sided sight as well? 

 

I apologize to all and to jetter...

one of my main defect is i answer back when someone instead of arguing with reason gave insults...

My bad...

I will let them go...

 

Use about people "Who bought costlier product" is not an attack?

You are serious?

 Alluding to a fact in general is not an attack against anyone even if we use irony...

The fact is a grounding box can cost peanuts...

;)

 

 

 

After accusing me of attacking all audiophiles...

:)

my sentence do not appear as an ad hominem attack but as an observation about your behaviour posting about me  as person and not about my proposition in my posts about my journey as audiophile:

grounding methods and acoustics concepts importance etc ...

This post of me above describe my own audiophile journey in part...

How in the world someone can takes a bit of irony mixed with my own audiophile journey for an attack on all audiophiles ?

Excuse me but you are deluded or very sensible skin...

Anybody else reading this think that my intention was mocking all audiophiles ?

 

my intention was pointing to acoustics as the best tool to learn..

And grounding process at peanuts cost exist and work...

Is it necessary to ban irony ?

At least i dont use only sarcasms against specific person here as the one calling me narcissist or deep33 insulting me for one year non stop...

Ironical i am sometimes yes...

But i dont attack anyone in particular as you just did with no argument except truncating my post, your first post above pretending that i attack all audiophile forgetting that i am myself an audiophiles as i said multiple times ..

 

 Read an acoustic article instead of reading my posts ...

 

By the way did you know that you can ground a piece of gear at no cost with small quartz or other convenient minerals and a copper cable ?

it does not takes a genius to read my proposition as an experiment ...

 

 

 

 

Choueiri....Chouerie...Choueiri all day long...but, never ever heard a BACCH processor.

 

 

I will not add to the lies and insults of deep 33

 

I will only correct one of  his false claims about me...

Dr. Choueiri is a physicist and acoustician who publishes articles in acoustics...

I discovered him reading his articles few years ago...

 He do not SELL gear as a means of living by the way ...

He is not a reviewer...

 He is a scientist and i recommended multiple times since few years his articles which helped me figure out audio as well as Floyd Toole and Dr. Gorike...

Nobody need to hear his BACCH system to read science and learn why  he is a genius in  acoustics as was Dr. Gorike the founder of AKG ...

If you doubt my words read all the posts of insults of deep33 since a year anytime i spoke in a post...

He mocked me without stop when i said i tuned my resonators by ears...( he seems to think it is impossible)

He attacked me with a flow of insults when i discussed with Amir ( A very polite  person) about  what is Timbre  he throwed insults at me  with  no arguments about the acoustics concepts under discussion...

i never insulted him...I even congratulated him in the beginning...He has a bad memory unlike me...

But as i do right now i ANSWER and correct him and i will answer any other person  who go with ad hominem attack...It is why i dont need to be defended i can do it myself with reason...

 Dont trust me, track his posts insults  count against me and count the times he gave me a rational argument...

 

 I never spoke to the audiogon staff about anybody here by the way ... Even when one here accuse me of murder... 

You can ask Tammy...

I never need anybody to defend me...

 As many knows i wrote posts myself and i dont lack rational arguments...

Ad hominem attack is a tool for narrow brain...

 

 

 

 

I will stop here...

i answered the lies...

 Back to thread...

You are not ashamed to be  so bad faith in front of everybody?

I will if i was in your shoes...

 

They dont buy quartz to ground their gear homemade.... They bought costlier product...

 

And your point is?

You judge and smirk at people who do not live the way you think is correct?

 

here you cut my post from his thread context: What is the most underestimated fact in audio ?

 

Then you arrange the post truncating it from his context to make it as if i had disparaged everybody instead of recommending to pay attention to the grounding process : grounding each piece of gear rightfully...

I proposed cheap method to do it with only quartz or others minerals, for 10 years now, so what ?

 

 I dont think that attacking someone as "narcissist" after truncating his  posts and stripping them from their context distorting my intention is a wise and intelligent way of doing thing... 

 

 

You posts attacks are so thin and of bad faith i will not answer each one...

You call me a narcissist because you dont have argument...

 You are the one twisting my post above and my sentence and distorting them of their intention  to make a point and present it as an insult to all audiophiles, as it is clear that being an audiophile myself i crossed the same crossroad as everybody... 

 

Gear matter for sure...

But  acoustics matter way more  than the choice between  relatively good basic pieces of gear...

 

Most dont want to know this simple truth,

 

What makes you the determinator of what is truth and what is not?

 

 

Guess what are the objective facts in audio science ?

It is acoustics  research which is the truth...( not mere room acoustic as most thought about when they see the word "acoustic")

 Read Edgar Choueiri about sound...

Before upgrading...

And i dont  merely and mainly recommend to buy a piece of gear here like  the other lying clown suggested falsely  to disparage my point ... i recommend his science papers articles and videos to understand some acoustics truth...

 

 

Please indicate me where i attacked you with no reason ?

 

 

 

he attacked me too for absolutely no reason, otherwise I would have ignored him)

 

@mahgister you accomplish the impossible. You are successfully uniting people who are otherwise in fierce disagreement about pretty much everything in life. But we all/mostly all agree that you are ruining these conversations by constantly berating people. And I am leaving out the nonsense part.

 

I posted opinions motivated by arguments and articles..

I never insult people...

But i answer to people like the last two one, one truncated my post to imply i am here to insult...

The other insulted me for months with no arguments...

And now you enter this game saying that i am hated by all which is false...

 I  just posted here today  about music in the jazz thread and nobody insulted me there ...I posted ARGUMENTS....go and read them...

It seems not all  people as you just did judge me harshly  as you do...

I dont berate people i gave ARGUMENT...With reference and articles or videos...

For example :

 What is "timbre" ?

 What is a resonator ?

What is musical time ?

(right now in the jazz thread i discuss about this  with intelligent non insulting people unlike the two above  here...

Why did you feel the right to post this about me ?

A hunch?

Where did i insulted you ?

If i did not insulted you why have you the right to say that everybody is against my posts ?

My defect is this : i answer to those who attack me...

I plead guilty...

But i am polite with polite people...

And i gave arguments not sarcasms as deep33 ...Go and read all the posts insults he gave me since 6 months...

Come back after and if you think his insults are motivated demonstrate to me why he has any reason to insult me without end, and  i will quit audiogon..

If not shut up...

You did not add anything positive as a rational  argument...

I love people and i hate nobody even those who insult me with no reason... But i answer them as i just answer your unmotivated disrespectful post who fall from the sky because stupidity act as a magnet and gangstalking someone please to some..

 

 

 

 

 

 

@mahgister you accomplish the impossible. You are successfully uniting people who are otherwise in fierce disagreement about pretty much everything in life. But we all/mostly all agree that you are ruining these conversations by constantly berating people. And I am leaving out the nonsense part.

i am perhaps an imbecile but you are bad faith...

I answered to someone who truncated my post to suggest  i came here to insult people... What are your part here between him and me ?

You gave a good advice though... Why not ignoring my posts yourself as you advise others instead of insulting me without end with NO ARGUMENTS for many months now ?

 

 

@cdc  Kindly ignore the imbecile lest it just gets noisier and noisier

 

 

«Indians dont need mirror but stupidity do» -- Groucho Marx

 

For the economist Cipolla who wrote a free book on this matter, a stupid person  is precisely someone who attack someone else with not benefit for him and even at his own expanse for no useful reason..

I think deep33 correspond to this description ...

Why attacking me with NO ARGUMENTS for almost a year now if you are not a stupid person ?

Is it because i know how to tune a resonator as i did for 2 years in my room  ?

You wrote to me it is impossible to do...Since then you rage reading my posts...

Incredible stupidity and free sarcasms for no reason save ignorance...

Please go with your own advice ignore my posts...

 

What is an audiophile?

It is a fool with money who buy gear pieces  one after the other or a fool with no money ready to have fun in a dedicated room whose hobby is acoustics (me)...

This is my complete post and sentence which was truncated ...

 

Honest people when they quote someone put them in context and dont truncate the sentence to do their own bidding and insinuation...

My complete sentence describe this hobby in general as relating to an alternative : we go blind in an upgrade expansive race or we think and try to understand acoustics...( we are all deep in this alternative me and all others audiophiles)

My sentence was there to describe a central problem of this hobby not mocking anyone...

Anybody in this hobby has played with the upgrades race... Even me...

Then read a post COMPLETELY  and read the intention of the poster correctly before insinuating something of your own making...

 

@mahgister wrote:

What is an audiophile?

It is a fool with money who buy gear pieces  one after the other

So why are you here? I do not see how your name-calling inflammatory statements have any benefit.

 So why are you here truncating my sentence to turn it into a sarcasm against all people instead of describing a central dilemma in audio... I dont see how your post is a constructive post and not an attack or insinuation against me ?

@mahgister you mentioned you bought a LPS for peanuts. Care to share what it is?

It is very cheap but as i can judge (i am no specialist at all)  well designed but without on/off button which is not really an annoyance for me...

The cleaning effect is immediately audible in my low cost system...It drive my  speakers/dac 12 volt and my secondary headphone amp (5volt)..

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005007859557682.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.order_list_main.17.45761802yefpDq

I cannot help you here because i only used my hearing not electronic equalization of the room to tune my room and many mechanical tuned resonators that work on large band frequencies for absorption and reflection...

It was not esthetical  and not perfect but it was spectacularly good but it takes me too much time and effort and i will not recommend it to everyone save those who want to learn acoustics by -playing with it but i learned so much doing it i will do it again...

Anyway my speakers at the times did not go much  under 50 Hertz..

I fixed my bass by the placement of the resonators and their dimensions and adjustment...

I have a 10dB resonant peak at 40Hz How do I fix it?

I apologize but i did not target anyone and certainly not you...I was speaking in general...

 

@mahgister  you are calling me "the average dude will idolize A.I."?

With appropriate source i can put any non sense out...

A.I. is not a source of information  we can trust blindly  because it is "sourced"...

We must think because between the wiki or A.I. definition of what "timbre" is for example  and the real acoustics problems related to "timbre", there is an abyss...

 Now listen what Sabine Hossenfelder say about A.I. and science research and "sources". :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVkCfn6kSqE

 

It is quite evident the average dude will idolize A.I. as arbiter of truth and quote it for any discussion as definitive truth ...

 

I don’t quite understand why the people here blaming AI generated information being faulty.  All the ’AI’ information provided by @cdc have proper sources.

A real audiophile  test soundtrack (no electronic spatial effects here only voices and instruments ):

If you can differentiate after purchasing this album, between the singers and see when they walk around you and in your room and see their head turning when singing and if they comes near your right or left ears singing or speaking, your system/room is good... If not, dont upgrade your gear pieces, dac, amp or speakers, learn acoustics experriment and use it before upgrading...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qR33bL5aNTk&list=PLnQJF3Qi_4_CvjtOvZypmfmC4ygxSxOgm&index=46

It was my test album in my  acoustic dedicated room.

In non audiophile system/room the singers are in front of you on a plane or worst between speakers, not around you in 3-d in the room.

I concur with your opinion.

 

+ 1

I would suggest that population of what I deem as audiophiles is rather small as much of the really expensive gear is most likely purchased by individuals who buy six figure cars and are neither car enthusiasts or audiophiles.  I would like to be wrong as I love this hobby and great sound, but I believe we are just a very small niche that does not drive the market.

The only real audiophiles i knew are dead...

They played with the gear pieces never were really concerned and never studied acoustics...

I am the only real audiophile i knew now, i used a dedicated room, and i studied how to makes it  holographic with basic gear because i could not enter the upgrades race. My budget lack was my luck but i did not knew at the times....

I succeeded but it takes me 2 years full time to understand how to do it at no cost...

 

Most people called audiophiles here  buy gear pieces without end on a race to upgrade the sound...

Gear matter for sure...

But  acoustics matter way more  than the choice between  relatively good basic pieces of gear...

 

Most dont want to know this simple truth, because they dont have a room  dedicated only to audio, they dont have the time to study acoustics... And a dedicated acoustics room done by a pro cost more than a high end system anyway...

What is an audiophile?

It is a fool with money who buy gear pieces  one after the other or a fool with no money ready to have fun in a dedicated room whose hobby is acoustics (me)...

There is rare people with unlimited budget spending money on room and gear....

They dont buy quartz to ground their gear homemade.... They bought costlier product...

 

 

 

 

The definition of audiophile is not a simple task...

 This concept is multidimensional:  I consider myself an audiophile but my purchase are made at peanuts costs... Am i an audiophile ?

I am not an audiophile if we use some criteria related to price and upgrades sum...