High Performance Moving Iron Cartridge Candidates?

Search for the post by Raul.  That was several years ago but received hundreds of comments.  Probably every common brand was discussed.

 Goldring 2000 series (probably made by Nagaoka). Speaking of Nagaoka, they are about to come out with a new range topper, the MP700, supposedly with a more modern sound, whatever that might mean.

Nagaoka, B&O, Grado. High output MI will generally work with MM stage and require 47K ohms input.

Look the midlevel Soundsmith cartridges.  The Paua II can be acquired in the range of $1150 (most recent sale found with about 300 hours use).  Mine was rebuilt at 1200 hours of use after a review/recommendation by Peter at a cost of $550 and currently has about 350 hours.  An excellent path with reliable rebuilds.  A Hyperion is now my primary and has gone the same path. 

Three candidates:

1. Nagaoka MP-500 (3mV output), perhaps the best in terms of quality/price

2. London Decca Reference (5mV), more expensive but stunning liveliness.

3. Soundsmith The Voice (2.12mV). Now I haven't heard this, but it's the best of their high output MI cartridges, unless you special order a Helios at the same price as a Hyperion. I do have a Sussurro and a Hyperion, and I'm delighted with them.

+1 Nagaoka MP-500. Rivals lots of spendy MC carts. Great tone, airy highs.

Also the Nagaoka JT-80BK Anniversary cart is very nice and a sleeper at it's price IME, nude elliptical and the boron cantilever. Smooth beautiful sound.

+2 Nagoaka MP500

Among a slew of cartridges my long time favorite has been a SoundSmith Hyperion, but mine is low output and I use an SUT that cost as much as it did.  Not to mention two sets of interconnects.  I don't think that is what you want.  I also often turn to the Ortofon 2M cartridges for older acoustic jazz as they have the synergy I am looking for, particularly their 2M Mono SE which is available but maybe out of the EU only.  I prefer the sound and balance of it on old jazz records to even a much more expensive Myajima Zero.

As casually mentioned above, a Soundsmith cartridge can be rebuilt to as-new status for a small fraction of the entry fee. I’ve had mine for over 10 years. Rebuilt once. Sent in a second time and it was returned with a note stating all it required was a good internal cleaning. When it comes to higher end cartridges (that have a useful lifespan) I want to use it freely without financial worry. 
 

Even better, find yourself a bargain on a used Soundsmith cartridge and pay the fractional fee to have it rebuilt to as-new status.
 

The Voice is a great option. Don’t rule out the Aida. I have no desire to upgrade. 

Don't limit your self to just moving iron. Classic moving magnet cartridges can have low moving mass. For instance the lowest of all was probably the old Technics EPC100 MK4 with resonance at 100 kHz. Unfortunately it's not available any more. A good choice would be the classic Shure V15 5MR or even better the Shure 500. The suspension on these would be gone but find an old one and there are multiple JICI styli available. Or close to the EPC 100 MK4 is the Technics EPC 205 MK3 and a JICO stylus.

Did you mention the tonearm to be used?

ADC XLM/VLM was a favorite MI of mine but needs a low mass arm. 

Tonearm is going to be a low mass version of the Audiomods Series Six. Effective mass is 8.9 grams. 

As someone mentioned up thread, a new Nagaoka is coming out in a month and would seem to fit the bill (assuming Nag’s bill is more than their TOL but far less than anything Air Tight). Based on the MP500, I’m in.

I was about to buy a new Decca a month or so ago, but I think I want someone else to go first.

I have several Grado and Soundsmith. The sweet spot for me was Soundsmith Zephyr MKiii (not the ES), which you can get with a couple hundred hours for 750 or so. Unlike most, I find lower hours used cartridges worthy, especially since they are broken in. And if you need a Soundsmith rebuild for some reason you are still in a decent price range. I even bought one of these once after the seller shipped to Soundsmith for an "all clear" from them. Good company to deal with I've found.

I have a Dynavector 10B high output mc cartridge. I think it sounds better - more "lively" - than moving iron cartridges like Grado or Nagaoka. 

I've heard many SoundSmith cartridges and they all are wonderful. The Voice is fabulous and has an output of 2.12mV and if and when it requires retipping the cost is only $300. 

@jasonbourne71  That is my other option. I have looked at HOMC versions of cartridges from Dynavector and Benz Micro. Since Excel built many HOMC cartridges in the past for companies, I wonder how much the changed in the innards with their Hana HOMC offering. 

One thing I remember from a number of years ago is a needle drop a friend had that was made on an AR turntable with a Shure V15MR on it. Sounded very nice! 

I would be open to a V15 but I wonder if the OEM cantilevers can be retipped? Arent they a beryllium tube? So I doubt a new diamond can be fitted to them, and that leaves something like a Jico stylus which is supposed to be good but not the same. If I go that route then I might as well find an appropriate Shure body right? Are the V bodies the best of the bunch or were there differences?

Jason, read what you wrote. Don’t you think your generalization is at best flimsy?

I used a Grado MI cart with a phono preamp that had a MM setting and a MC setting only.  MC was too bloomy and MM was too thin.  Seems like it was somewhere in the middle.  I would suggest a preamp that has a selection of settings.

Many years ago I used (and actually still have it) a Benz Micro Wood H2 HOMC. I didn't really find it better than the Shure V15vxMR that preceded it, and moved on to a Ruby 3 instead. That one is still in use, albeit converted to mono.

Another yes for Soundsmith. I got a new HOMI Zephyr MKlll for $1k. It has Line Contact stylus. Rides deeper in groove. HiFi Heaven had a sale plus they gave trade in credit of $100 for a couple old Ortofons that needed new stylus.

I called Soundsmith for advice prior to purchase and the fellow connected me to owner Peter L which I didnt expect.

Plan is to make this my last cart with the rebuild service.

Some questions about Soundsmith. As I understand it earlier cartridge designs were built upon the B&O architecture. Is there some point the designs evolved past them? Are any of the current cartridges still based on them? 
 

One thought comes to mind. Soundsmith won't be around forever, or will at least transition at some point. I don't think we can bank on their rebuild costs model staying the same whenever things do change. Koetsu is a recent reminder of this. 
 

Grado is a cartridge I have never been fond of. Do the Nagoaka have a bit more sparkle and presence than them? 

No doubt Soundsmith and other audio companys wont be around, as they are today, down the road. 

I have come across a couple other services that rebuild carts, so hopefully that is an option if needed.

I think Soundsmith's site may have some history on the B&O builds.

I think PL was influenced to get into MI cartridge development and manufacture by his prior experience with top of the line B&O cartridges, like the MMC1 and the MMC20CL.  So he first developed the SMMC line of SoundSmith cartridges, which he still sells.  The SMMC cartridges are virtually copies of the B&O MMC series. And SS specialized in the repair of B&O cartridges early on. In my opinion, the MMC1 is one of the finest sounding cartridges ever made, so I very much understand why PL chose that path.  As to whether the SMMC cartridges are structurally related to the Voice and its successors, which get ever more costly as you move up the line, is something only PL can say.  But you could do worse than to go in that direction. As to longevity, none of us will be around forever, so buy what you like and forgeddaboudit.  If the cartridges you leave behind are a significant fraction of your estate, you ought not to be dabbling in this area.

Also only in my opinion, HOMC cartridges are the least good sounding of all types of cartridges that I have heard, and I have owned some purportedly very good ones. I’d much sooner own a Grace Ruby, even with the OEM elliptical cantilever, although the SS OCL stylus does take it up a few notches.

Taken a look at Audio Technica ART9xi - not much iron to move, but a massive magnet structure, and SLC stylus profile.

Simply wonderful sounding, and very high output:

Apparently replaced by the ART20:

https://www.audio-technica.com/en-us/cartridges/line-series/art-series/at-art20

My understanding is that Peter has someone who works with him on the high end cartridges, presumably so that one day they can continue the work. I have not asked Peter that directly (an excess of delicacy on my part), but I have heard that from a dealer. With cartridges like the strain gauge and the Hyperion (with its cactus spine) one is dependent on SS for future service. Those with more conventional builds could be serviced by the usual suspects.

@neonknight I hear you about the Grados. I have a Statement 3 that sits unused. I can't say there's anything wrong with it, but it doesn't excite me. The MP-500 I discovered when I was concerned that the Deccas would no longer be serviced with John Wright's retirement, and it comes close to the Decca sound and liveliness. Initially I didn't hit it off with the Sussurro, but with some very careful attention to VTA it suddenly came to life and impressed me enough that I moved up to the Hyperion, which is better still. I rather hate to say it, but it is better and more engaging than the the Decca. I never thought I'd say that. If you can stretch to one of the Soundsmiths I think they can outperform the MP-500, but as I say I haven't heard one of the high ouput SS cartridges. PL himself says he only makes low output versions because the market demands them to use with expensive MC phono stages, and he implies that if it weren't for that he'd stick with the high outputs.

+1 on London Decca - I have the SuperGold, not the reference - about $3k - at least several months ago, prior to tariffs - incredible sound - highly worth considering and the LD folks provide awesome support -  it replaced a Sumiko Blackbird - also in the middle of upgrading VPI Prime to SOTA Sapphire VII + Audio Origami PU7 Ti - 

You don’t have to worry about the longevity of SoundSmith. 
 

Their heritage doesn’t really matter. They make really good sounding products. 
 

Here’s why…

https://www.sound-smith.com/articles/fixed-coil-vs-moving-coil-why-make-jump-different-technology

I was hoping people would have read a little closer. 

The arm being used is just under 9 grams. As I understand things, a cartridge like a London Decca isn't going to be happy in an arm of that mass. Please do let me know if I am wrong. Secondly, how are we getting them serviced these days?

Secondly, the phono stage being used is the one onboard the Trinov preamp. My Esoteric E-03 already has a Transfiguration Proteus and a gen 1 Kiseki Blackheart hooked up to it. So this cartridge is not going to be a low output one. Which actually knocks out a lot of the Soundsmith currently listed on Audiogon and USAM. 

I don't have to make a choice this week as I can play vinyl on the other two cartridges. But the goal is to find a casual play cartridge that I can appreciate the sound on. Maybe the MP-500 is it, unless I find the appropriate Soundsmith one to put on this arm. 

It’s always easy to add mass to any tonearm. Low effective mass is never an insurmountable problem. Also, to be clear, it’s high output MC cartridges that I haven’t liked, not high output MIs. The latter are most of my favorites of all time: B&O MMC1, Nagaoka MP500, Acutex LPM320.

And finally, the ART9Xi is an upgrade of the ART9.

@neonknight:

As @lewm just posted, adding moving mass to a tone arm is simple. Do it on the headshell for maximum efficiency. The lead weights for balancing wheels work splendidly, and if you need to add mass to your arm's counterweight to now get it to balance the weights will of course work there too  It's decreasing the moving mass of a tonearm that is difficult.

You have heard correctly, the Deccas (old) and Londons (new) require a medium to high mass tonearm. The reason for that is that cartridge's very low compliance in one of the two planes of movement (either lateral or vertical, I don't recall which). To get a resonant frequency in the desired 10-15Hz range, a low mass arm just won't due. 15 to 20 grams of moving mass is correct for the Deccas and Londons.

The cartridge puts out a very healthy 5mV! Not 0.5mV, or 0.05mV, but 5mV. You need only 30-40dB of gain from your phono stage. Two manufactures have included accommodations specifically for the Deccas/Londons: Schitt with a 30dB gain setting on their phono amp, and Zesto with a 15k Ohms position on the MM impedance switch on their Andros pre-amp. I asked George Counnas about that, and he told me it was for his industry friends who use Deccas and Londons in their personal systems at home. Why 15k ohms? Deccas and Londons benefit from a lower-than-47k impedance setting, anywhere from 10k Ohms to 30k.

As for servicing, I just emailed London (the company) about sending them a Decca 4RC (from the 1960s) to be rebuilt, and got an immediate reply. Stewart told me the company is working on all Deccas and Londons, Deccas dating back to models from the 1940's. My newly-acquired 4RC will be on it's way to England tomorrow. When it returns it will join the London Super Gold and Reference pickups already tracing the grooves in my LPs.

A word of mild warning: Deccas and Londons put out a LOT of mechanical energy, and are known to cause rattling or chattering in some arm bearing assemblies. For the same I would advise choosing an arm with a very stiff arm tube. The stiffer the better (that's what she said).

+1 on @bdp24 - LD are servicing ALL Decca cartridges from whenever and wherever. 

I’m actually using chewing gum on the headshell of my Reed 2A, in order to counterbalance my Dynavector 17D3. 

The Nagaoka MP-500 as others have mentioned is very good.  Clearaudio makes nice MM carts that have decent output.  I have a Soundsmith AIDA MK2 and like that, but its output is 2.12, maybe too low for the Trinnov?  I also have a couple of Shure carts with JICO SAS stylus.  The V15 Type IV can be really nice with the right phono stage.

Yesterday I took 37 minutes to watch this video of Art Dudley of Stereophile visiting Peter Ledermann at Soundsmith’s Offices, I encourage you to remember to watch it when you can.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rd948px1230&t=2s

Questions asked here, concerns about Soundsmith mentioned here are answered. You see it is no Pop and two others operation, they will be around, the inventory you see throughout the 3 spaces toured is so far beyond what you see at the video tour of Excel, maker of Hana for instance. Not to criticise Excel, just to note the operation is far bigger than you might imagine.

search youtube for soundsmith, this from 4 years ago popped up, being retired, fresh cup of coffee, I watched and enjoyed the whole thing, over an hour

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ul0o7UEqtkA

of particular interest if you are short of time are:

46:30 Major advantage of Strain Gauge is seriously minimized Cantilever Jitter

51:30 Anti-Skate: set with blank side or dead wax area of VINYL (proper material for resistance on industry standard bottom of tip).

57:00 LOW output Strain Gauge cartridge versions are made for Marketing Reasons (not a reduced mass issue in strain gauge technology).

105: fix for arm with no anti-skate feature: shim up the upper left corner (assuming arm is upper right) until you get it right.

fixed coil explained here

On my Linn LP12 I have a Grado AEON 3 cartridge and can recommend quite highly. The only cartridge I would consider replacing it with would be it's next level up, the Grado EPOCH 3.

There's been talk going around about a new Nagaoka MP-700...

As I mentioned above...

Well looks like my two options are an MP500 (we will see what the 700 looks like) or an appropriate Soundsmith if I find one. 

I still think a modern HOMC might be an option, as the ones I have heard did not have the rising top end that many of the vintage ones were known to have. 

So I just bought a Shure V15 VxMR with a like new Jico SAS stylus for this arm. This should do the job as a casual cartridge into the Trinov MM phono stage. 
 

I get the factory stylus also. Is that cantilever able to be retipped?

I am surprised if PL recommends setting AS using a blank area on an LP, but I do not doubt the veracity of Elliot’s description of the video.  On the other hand, I am not going to watch it.  Since the skating force arises from the friction of the stylus in the groove plus lack of tangency to the groove acting in concert, it has always seemed to me that the most accurate way to set AS is to have the stylus running on a grooved part of an LP.  The contact patches of a stylus are not engaged when the stylus is riding on a blank surface, or at least they are not engaged in the same way as they are during play. Therefore, friction is likely to be different on a blank surface vs on a grooved surface. But I guess that since the skating force is ever changing during play due both to tracking angle error changing and to changes in groove tortuosity, the whole thing is a crapshoot at best, so it doesn’t matter how you set AS; the AS will usually not be quite correct for countering the skating force.

As a user, I can strongly recommend the Soundsmith Aida mk2. Amazing value for the money. A second hand with few hours of listening can have an even better value! I had to spend three times its price to find significantly better (to me) MC cartridge.