Help me spend $100,000 on a new system

Command Performance is always a good option when visiting the DC area.  Another one close by is Deja Vu Audio.  I’ve bought from both and both have good selections, nice rooms to audition, and friendly and knowledgable staff.

There's no way to purchase a complete system for someone else, best thing would be spend a little of that money to make a dedicated listening room, and I would do that with double layer drywall and green glue between the layers.  Measure the room so you don't have any excessive standing wave problems at the same frequency from all three directions.  
 

Then take what you have into that room and see how it sounds to you, if something bothers you, then you upgrade it, if nothing bothers you, then you don't buy anything.  

Spend some of the money to invite parents with children from your neighborhood and show them what it is to have a beautiful stereo sound, it's something that most people have never heard, you are in the Audio .01%. 

Mike, here's what I would do if I started over in my space with all I learned over the last few years and knowing the impact it had in my room (and in my opinion that's a huge variable for your new space)

Turntable - I have a Rega P8 at the $100k system I'd go for the Rega P10 or their new Rega Naia.  I'd get the Rega Aura Phono stage.  I'd go this route because it's a good value and hard for me to screw up.  (PS: I'd also get an Audio Desk record cleaner)

Preamp/Amp I'd go tubes with ARC 6SE and 160S.   I do prefer the simplicity of solid state so I'd be more likely to go with Moon's new 891 and 861.  Note this would introduce digital to the system .  (If that's a no go I'd go Boulder)

Speakers - I'd go for the Sonus Faber Amanti G5

I'd also spend money on Isolation (HRS SXR), interconnects I like Kimber Kable and have been impressed with Nordost) and power management with Shunyata. 

The funds remaining would be on some room treatments and good glassware to drink beer and whiskey while I listen to tunes.

One word...horn.

We are born, play abit, and we die, can’t take it with us. If I were you I’d get the JBL Everest 67000. You can even use whatever upstream equipment you have for awhile to figure out next step. If 80k on speakers are abit over the top, try their K2 then. Still beryllium compression drivers.

Everyone like different sound, sure. But I’d wager that , all of us audio lovers, if given an option of whether we like our system to sound as close to the real live events we are listening, we’d mark that checkbox.

Dynamism is the key to sounding real. Horn+beryllium is one of the combo that’s closer to that than anything (to me).

He doesn't want to deal with tubes. Another point, after choosing speakers, is whether to go with integrated or separates. Boulder 866 is about $16k, I think, and Gryphon Diablo 333 about $25k without optional dac and phono stage. DartZeel is probably even more expensive and D'Agostino Momentum would be out of reach. Some mentioned Audionet. Accuphase is about $25k, I guess, for both class A and top class AB integrated. What else..? Nagra, Soulution, Vitus. Quite a choice.

I don’t have any experience with tubes so probably will stick with SS.

Oops!  I missed this when you posted it.

I think you ought to just maybe give them a listen before you rule them out.  They really are not all that complicated and with the disposable funds you are talking about you could do yourself right in the tubular regards. And who knows?  You are seem to be looking for a change from what you are listening to presently (as good as I bet it sounds!), and a real top notch tube system might be the change you are looking for.

Not to mention when I carried my heavy Luxman amp and Magico A3’s up a flight of stairs to my listening room a couple years ago it was a near death experience.

@skyscraper 

With spinal generation my heavy lifting days are over. I’m now fighting to keep mobile so me and my wife can travel upon her retirement. Arrange for others to do the heavy lifting.

The Joseph Audio Pearl Graphene sounds great - a good choice to demo as I heard them on several occasions. At the time, they were above my price point. Last year at AXPONA I narrowed my search to the Magico A5 or the Rockport Atria. In show conditions (poor hotel room conditions often make speakers sound way below their potential) the A5 sounded clearer on the top while the Atria sounded whole but recessed. After the show, I spoke with my dealer and mentioned I loved the sound of the demo Vimberg Mino D, but it was out of my price range as the “D” was the diamond tweeter upgrade at $10k+. I love high notes (violin, bells)so my dealer negotiated the price down while I “conveniently” increased my budget so now I own them. If possible, maybe check out Vimberg as well - very positive reviews, it’s the Toyota while their sister/parent company Tidal speakers are like Lexus. Like Magico, it’s a Herculean effort to eliminate cabinet resonances

@skyscraper 

Guess I’ll touch on cables as researching that can be very daunting.  
For interconnects, I choose Siltech Classic mostly from this review here where the reviewer seem surprised at how good they sounded and that they were extremely transparent.  However, subsequent Hijiri reviews especially on Agon here seem like their “million” line is a great choice and somewhat affordable.  

@skyscraper 

I optimized my analog chain - VPI Avenger, VDH Grail SB (a used sonic bargain), Kuzma 4point (great price/performace, many rave reviews), Schroeder CB-L, and a few top carts.  But trying to get digital to a high level seemed financially daunting.

The top DACs like from MSB, Lampizator, Wadax, Aries Carat, were way out of my price range. The musical Playback Designs Dream DAC was my someday target, but was bummed at their subsequent price increase.  But then read the review of the Linn Klimax DSM/2 with the Organik DAC upgrade here so I purchased it for $12.5k - feels like I got a fantastic sonic bargain sonically competing with top DACs. 

1. Find a good audio dealer in your area. 2. Pay attention to what he/she/they tell you. 3. Enjoy your new system. (remember: $100K doesn't go as far now as it did when you were young and had better hearing!)

Donate the $100k to a reputable charity. You have a fine system, a d giving the money away to a worthy cause can give you greater pleasure than perceived improvements in sound quality to aging ears that will soon lose ability to discriminate nuances.

@skyscraper great post and fun to think about.  First of all you've built a great system (and not just saying that because of our shared good taste).  The law of diminishing returns is very real IMHO, and you'll have a tough time getting more than a few % improvement over what you have with this budget.  If you did pick up some more space a bigger Magico (A5 or S3/S5) would serve you well.  Looking outside of that line others have suggested Joseph Audio, YG and those are worth a look.  If I were upgrading my Luxman gear for my Magico's I'd be considering Accuphase, Gryphon and maybe D'Agostino.  

My initial thought was much like others, focused on the room and ensuring a dedicated listening space.  If nothing else I might collect some rare first edition vinyl.  

But I'm going to take the conversation in a different direction that no one has picked up on.  You mentioned in your original post the possibility of a Mercedes convertible.  If you have no toy/fun car today than my unequivocal vote is to buy that, paired with your current system.  

@immatthewj +1 @skyscraper

With Vinnie Rossi Brama line , you have the choice to listen in SS mode and Tubes mode .
300B tubes last a very very long time.

Brama integrated : SS mode or Tube mode
Brama preamplifier : SS mode or Tube mode / or a mixt of both .
You will not find this feature  , anywhere else.

10 years warranty

In Audio Shows , Vinnie Rossi Brama line has been paired with Magico , Rockport , QLN , YG .

You could buy some killer Wilson Alexx speakers and supplement the setup with a  high end amp and preamp.  The guys here will have plenty of suggestions.  Alternatively, maybe write the editors at Stereophile for some recommendations.  I like the idea of buying a a house with a room you could dedicate to a listening. room.  Another un-exciting option would be save that $100k for times when you have health problems and need to pay the bills.  Actually, it's kind of nice just having the cash and not having to use it.

@skyscraper

YG Speakers / Vinnie Rossi electronics / Room’s acoustic

a)Room ( acoustic / dedicated electricity / pleasant room design )

If you have to ……..  :

b)Speakers choice ( +cables / anti vibration feet )
c)Electronics ( +cables / anti vibration feet / good rack , not between the speakers )

Keep in mind that when you will sell your new house one day , you will not get the room’s money back.

You're welcome Mike - good luck and let us know where you land:)

What a fun hobby ... Lol.

Where else do you get the opportunity to help someone blow that kind of money?

tunefuldude, no where else I can think of.

macg19, will do.

maxwave, my heirs will have to worry about thar eventuality. I plan on using the room ’til I drop. Thanks for the many equipment recommendations. I’ll look into all of them.

garrettc, fortunately I already had a bit stashed for unexpected issues, so this new amount should be free and clear for any use, sensible or not. I’ll look into the Wilson Alexx speakers you mention.

mtbiker29. I do like your recommendation, so you obviously do have good taste. I’ll be checking into all of them. Getting an old Mercedes might be a good idea too, if it turns out the amount of audio improvement is not significant enough to warrant such a huge expenditure.

fritenheimer, Good thought, but after spending a lifetime in psychology related "helping" professions both in and out of Corrections, it’s time to help myself to some fu,n even if its’ on the selfish side. 

kennyc, thank you especially for the DAC recommends. I need to learn more about them. I’ll look up the cable recommends too. I was going to demo some Josehp Audio speakers prior to getting Magico A3’s. But having to go all the way from SW Virginia to Pennsylvania just to find dealer, plus get a demo, seemed prohibitive at the time This time I won’t be so lazy.

inna, I wonder how good the optional DAC and phono stage are on the Gryphon Diablo 333.ntegrated amp. It would be nice to have that all in one package rather than having to waste money on more expensive wires and cables for separates

I’ll read up on your other suggestions too. Thanks again for good advice.

btbluesky, it would be funny to get JBL speakers again. My first decent speakers many years ago were JBL Century 100’s. I’ll add your suggested JBL’s to my list to read up on.

overthemoon. thank you for multiple recommendations. That’s exactly what I’m looking for here. I’ll look into each one.

immatthew, thanks for the links. I’ll check each out.

Again thanks all,

Mike

Have you zeroed in on the actual home you are going to buy? I think you can get a lot of mileage out of a dedicated listening room that you are free to modify. In wall and in ceiling bass traps would be a great way to spend some of that money. 

Mike, Diablo 333 is a new Gryphon integrated. The previous Diablo 300's DAC and phono stage were both considered excellent. Gryphon is really worth auditioning, especially if you like clarity and power. This is a very solid and reputable brand.

So you want to spend a $100K on a new system that will automatically lose half its value? Why not spend $50K upgrade what you have and invest the other $50K into appreciating assets. Or this is just another AudioGon Troll.

I can tell why not. Because the man has a different idea. He invited us to participate in his idea, not to suggest other possible ways of money management.

Inna, I read a review on the Diablo Gryphon 333 when it first came out. Can’t remember who did the review or what if anything they said about it’s phono stage and DAC, or how they compared to other phono stage or DAC separates. Seems like they are a reputable company and have been around for a while, which has its’ appeal.

axeis1, no need to get insulting. I was thinking at a $100,000 price tag each component in my current system would probably need upgrading to fit in and not be a weak link. Maybe not. At age 71 I don’t need appreciating assets more than I already have. I don’t care that if I decide to spend that much on a new system if it loses half its value as I’ll never sell it, I held onto my previous system for some forty years, only upgrading that whole system to what I currently have a couple of years ago. At some point in your life you need to cash in your chips so to speak, and enjoy the benefits of what you worked for all your life.

scotwheel, no not yet, I’m only exploring my options at this point..

Mike

Inna, I'm mixing the Diablo Gryphon and the new 333 up.

Mike

Gryphon also makes speakers, though they are less known than their electronics.

Yeah, you meant Diablo 300.

If possible, you might be interested in auditioning Kharma and Lansche speakers. They are different from Magico and Wilson. I think, their entry level speakers start at about $25k. Lansches do need plasma tweeters to be replaced from time to time, which is inconvenient and not inexpensive, unless they managed to overcome this shortcoming. But the sound of that tweeter..

Considering the gear you already have, I would spend every bit of that $100,000 on  fully treating a room.

See if there are any recording studio designers in your area, and explain to them what you’re looking for. 
 

You’ve already acquired quite nice gear, give them the room to shine, and let your ears lead the way from there. 

"I can tell why not. Because the man has a different idea. He invited us to participate in his idea, not to suggest other possible ways of money management."

EXACTLY! It is incredibly rude for people to suggest other than what he is asking.

"Yeah, you meant Diablo 300." No he did not. This model has been superseded.

laoman, as you pointed out I would appreciate if in replies if anyone would primarily address the questions originally posted, like most of you have. That would be most helpful and will keep this thread on track. Thanks for mentioning this laoman.

I did mix up the Gryphon Diablo 300 and the new 330 model. I’d read reviews of the Diablo 300 previously, but not the new Diablo 330 as I mistakenly stated. Inna called that one right. Sorry for the confusion.

occasionallycurrent, I honestly don’t want my listening room to look anything like a studio as it is my primary living space. But I am fully open to using what I have in terms of furnishings (many books on shelves furniture, rugs, artwork etc. as well as designing room dimensions and wall materials) to augment the acoustics.

Mike

“I honestly don’t want my listening room to look anything like a studio as it is my primary living space. But I am fully open to using what I have in terms of furnishings (many books on shelves furniture, rugs, artwork etc. as well as designing room dimensions and wall materials) to augment the acoustics.”

Do you have an attic space above your he ceiling? You can build a state of the art wide band bass trap into any ceiling that has a large space above it that is yours to modify as you wish. And you can make it virtually indistinguishable from  normal ceiling.

“I honestly don’t want my listening room to look anything like a studio as it is my primary living space. But I am fully open to using what I have in terms of furnishings (many books on shelves furniture, rugs, artwork etc. as well as designing room dimensions and wall materials) to augment the acoustics.”

Also there are active bass traps from PSI in Switzerland. You can get 8 of them and place them strategically throughout the room. They are relatively small and very effective in a w swarm array. That would cost around $30K

And another option. The brand new Trinnov wave forming DSP with subwoofer arrays on the front and back walls. 

Thanks for the tips Scott. I'll have to look up what a bass trap is.

Mike

They absorb bass and reduce bass standing waves and reverb. There are different kinds that target different bass frequencies. 

I also agree with many others that arranging a room with good acoustics and pleasant environment could give you more satisfaction than changing your audio system and setting it up in a room with an average acoustics. 

Mike - one other thought.  A good friend of mine has been working with a very nice shop in Winston-Salem, Ember Audio + Design.  They carry some great lines, and might be much closer to you.

You should not necessarily use special absorbing material that may look ugly. You can rather use carpets, paintings, lamps, nice wooden things and furniture to make your listening room enjoyable.

One has to be careful with absorption. If used it needs to be broad band otherwise it can become a passive equalizer with dull high frequencies 

Hey, I get you do not want your space looking like a Studio. If that’s the case use the very cheapest cables and some egg cartons. All joking aside, there are some really great innovations in the acoustic room treatments world. Like acoustic absorbers with nice pictures either yours or pre done. Diffusers that look like art sculptures with waves and colors, and finally treating your front wall with a beautiful paintable difusion arrangements that look amazing. Look at Jays Iyage. Not cheep, but sounds amazing! Your guests would be none the wiser. this is my first recommendation. 
second recommendation would be upgrading to the Magico S3. I believe it has the same midrange and tweeters as the M9’s. Plus the come in beautiful colors. One thing I’m not sure about your speakers is do you have the Series 1 tweeter or the Series 2 tweeters. This makes a huge difference. If you want a nice bookshelf for $4400 I would recommend the Revel M126 in gloss walnut. I demoed these in my house. They are amazing for the money. Plus with the Revel 5th gen tweeter they are room friendly. Plus, no subs needed to get good bass. I would recommend subs just to create bloom and enjoy your system at really low volumes. I hope this helps. 
 

One has to be careful with absorption. If used it needs to be broad band otherwise it can become a passive equalizer with dull high frequencies 

@scottwheel  , can you expound upon that?

Sure. Absorption is not uniform across the frequency spectrum. It depends on the absorptive material, how thick it is and how much space if any there is between it and the reflective surface behind it. If one haphazardly puts 1”-2” “acoustic foam” on the walls the result will certainly be duller highs and no improvement in the mid range 

hsounds, Trouble with the room decor is that I have mostly Federal style furnishings (mostly repros of an early American, roughly 1790-1820 style, for anyone not familiar) that doesn’t lend itself to what you are describing.

How would you tell if you had either Series 1 or 2 tweeters?. I will listen to the Magico S3’s.

niodari, If I can use rugs, furniture, plus lots bookshelves and some paintings to achieve the same ends that would be great.

mdalton, I will look at Ember Audio and Design, see what they carry. on their website and hopefully pay them a visit. Thanks for mentioning them. They’re about two and a half hours away, maybe an hour closer than DC.

Mike

Some of the best mastering rooms - think Blue Note Tone Poet are not the over treated dedicated audiophile rooms…..in fact they resemble living rooms … You can ( i’ve done it many times ) get control room RT-60 targets using natural absorbers and more diffusion….. 

You got lots of advice on gear… some spotty advice on acoustics… you might want to start a separate thread on what to look for and avoid in the new  space… including electrical….

Finally, speaking from some direct experience…tubes might be more reliable than certain old Mercedes…. ha….

Some of the best mastering rooms - think Blue Note Tone Poet are not the over treated dedicated audiophile rooms…..in fact they resemble living rooms … You can ( i’ve done it many times ) get control room RT-60 targets using natural absorbers and more diffusion…..

Some of the "best mastering rooms" use tuned resonators to address all the strong room modes (It may have been quite discreet, i.e. you may have thought there wasn’t anything there). 

@skyscraper 

Next time you're in the DC area stop in at Linear Tube Audio and have a listen in their new listening room. The new 120-watt mono’s are fantastic sounding and will probably be production-ready in a couple of months.

Also, if you're in the area you stop in to see me and listen to my DS Audio Grand Master cartridge with the Integrity Tru-Glider tone arm. I have Gamut RS5i speakers I greatly enjoy and my Backert Labs preamp is no slouch either.

Lance

“Some of the "best mastering rooms" use tuned resonators to address all the strong room modes (It may have been quite discreet, i.e. you may have thought there wasn’t anything there).”

indeed, there is no “naturalistic” way to manage room issues in the bass. There are ways to keep bass traps out of sight. 

prudent dimensions, 11 bands of analog EQ below 120 hz and a swarm only if needed I am part owner of a recording studio…. i am very aware…. 

Fantastic bass w EQ i refer to wins lots of awards and recommendations from a wide swath …since 1977… starting below $20 k… It’s really not that difficult….

There are numerous approaches to bass management none of which are perfect. Personally I favor trapping over all others. Although I am very interested in the Trinnov Waveforming technology for bass management 50 Hz and lower. I’m betting on a combination of Wide band absorptive traps focused diaphragmatic traps, active bass traps and the Trinnov system to be the best solution. The goal is an even impulse response uniformly bellow 150 milliseconds with flat frequency response using minimal EQ. 
 

But no bass management is going to be a problem. 

@skyscraper 

Happy to help,  Btw, the friend I mentioned is about the same age as you, and is doing something very similar.  He’s landed on the following choices:  Moon 861 amp ($22k), Moon 891 pre ($25k), and Wilson Sasha V ($50k). He’s a digital-only guy, and a big part of the appeal of the Moon pre is the quality of its streamer.  There’s probably a different Moon combo that would be more appropriate for you given your indifference to streaming; Ember also has some other SS brands that could be interesting (e.g., Atoll, Hegel, etc.), not to mention turntables (AMG, Clearaudio, Rega. and I think Feickert as well).