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Help with Spendor S8e . No Bass

I just bought a pair of like new Spendor S8es on this site from a reputable gentleman. I bought them to replace my Spendor S5e speakers that I have really loved. I was just looking for a slightly bigger sound, and really wanted to raise the soundstage with a taller speaker. I had liked the S5es so much (and the C5e and S3es that I also have), that the S8e seemed like the ticket. Well I got the S8es and they look brand new. Hooked them up, and there is an entire frequency band from about 150hz to 50hz that is just not there. I mean, I hear nothing from that range coming through at all. Referrence tracks that I would feel powerful bass vibrating through my listening chair, had me feeling nothing at all with the S8e. The thing that has me most perplexed, is that the highs, vocals, and midrange sound incredible. And it is a two way speaker. How is this possible? I thought it must be a crossover problem, so I pulled the crossovers, and I don't see anything visually disturbing. No burned traces (and they are huge traces by the way), and none of the caps/coils have come loose or look discolored. I really don't know a good way to test the caps and coils while in circuit, and I don't particularly want to tear them apart. Also, they don't have the specs written on them. I decided to run an Audyssey test on the speakers, and they measured down to 150hz only. I realize Audyssey is not the most accurate, but it usually hits it dead on for me if I run at least 6 positions. I don't see any way that room positioning can be making that big of a difference can it? Shouldn't the S8e have more bass than my little S5es did? All of the reviews of the S8e talk of its great bass. Also, how can a 2 way speaker sound AWESOME in every other respect? And why would both speakers show the same propblem? Is it possible that something is bad in the crossovers that would not be visually aparent, and would allow the speakers to sound great everywhere but that range? Any help is greatly appreciated. System consists of the following:

Onkyo TX-SR875 used as a preamp for HT
Parasound 2100 Preamp inline from pre to amp for mains
Mcintosh MC7106 running in 300X3 for Mains and center
Hafler DH-500 for surrounds
The AR Turntable
Arcam Alpha 9 CD player
Spendor S8e for mains
Spendor C5e for center
Spendor S3e for surrounds
Tributaries silver interconnects for mains
DNM New Stereo interconnects everywhere else
DNM Precision Stereo solid core speaker wire in bi-wire

Oh yeah, I tried every config I could think of, different interconnects, speaker wire, amp, sources, u name it. PLEASE HELP!
bikeboy272
7 responses Add your response
newbee
4,767 posts
 
I had this happen once to me. Ultimately, by doing close microphone tests, I discovered that there was no sound from the port of one speaker due to a wiring problem in the cross over. The other speaker was fine though. Probably not your issue, but who knows. I.m not familar with your testing protocol. FWIW.
mlsstl
1,438 posts
 
I replied to your email off line, but here are a couple of more thoughts.

I'm not familiar with the other specific pieces of equipment you have. Any chance there is an active subwoofer setting that may have been accidentally turned on?

Also, make yourself a CD with some low frequency test tones, say at 50 Hz, 75 and 100. These shouldn't be hard to find (or generate yourself. I have Adobe Audition which will generate test tones and lots of other audio software programs will do the same.) Having a pure test tone to work with can help you isolate the problem more easily than using music.

Try the tones on the speakers one at a time. It could be there is a problem with only one speaker. If the bass from both seems fine when played separately, that would suggest one of the speaker wires is hooked up out of phase.
thsalmon
348 posts
 
I would also recommend make sure you don't have a subwoofer setup in your processor's software. You also might experiment with how far you have the speakers from the back wall.
classe30
31 posts
 
I agree, it sounds like you have a Subwoofer setting switched on.
bikeboy272 OP
2 posts
 
Well, I don't run a sub when listening to 2 channel music, and I double checked that the signal to the amp was coming from the main outs on my preamp, and not the high pass outs. I ran Audyssey calibration with the polarity both positive and reversed and got strange results. On what should be positive polarity (none of the components in my system are supposed to reverse polarity according to the manufacturers), the speakers only reliably reproduce down to 150hz. I think a BOSE sat can do better than that. When I reverse polarity on both speakers, they test full range, and the audible difference is huge. I can hear everything. The only downside is that the mids and highs don't sound as good with the reversed polarity.

So I have a system polarity tester on the way. I guess I'll either find a component that reverses polarity in my system (and the crossovers in the S8e really don't like that), or I am going to find that system polarity is ok, and the speakers have a real problem (most likely the crossovers).

Do any of you have any knowledge of crossovers acting this way with reversed polarity? Throughout my testing, I have made sure that the speakers are always in phase with each other (used the XLO CD to be absolutely sure). I have made sure evrything inside the speakers is wired properly as well.

Once again, any help is appreciated.
bikeboy272 OP
2 posts
 
Oh yeah. To clarify, I listen to 2 channel through my Parasound Model 2100 preamp only. Not through my surround processor. The model 2100 has main outs that do not get any crossover attention at all. It has seperate high pass outs to be used when using the bass management. So unfortunately, the sub settings are not the problem.
newbee
4,767 posts
 
It still sounds as if your bass is out of phase with the rest of the FR when wired up correctly. What I mean is that the bass driver in each speaker is wired out of phase with the rest of the drivers in the speaker. I'm not familar with this speaker at all, but do I assume correctly that it has provision for biwiring? Have you tried biwiring it? If it does provide biwiring, try setting up the speakers biwired normally (phase not inverted, + to + and - to - in both channels) then reverse phase in the bass channel in one speaker then in both speakers and see what ddifferences occur.

BTW, I don't think this problem is in your components. The phase issues in components is related to absolute phase issues and will not change frequency response in any meaningful way. Quality of presentation perhaps with some recordings but often you will note no differences between inverted and non-inverted absoloute polarity (phase).

And yes it could well be a wiring problem in a crossover but I wouldn't guess that from what you are saying because it would have to be in the crossovers in both speakers, which I think would be highly unlikely. Perhaps there is a wiring problem in the manner the crossover is wired to the connectors.

You might also find using a Radio Shack sound pressure level meter and a test disk with 1/3d octave tones would be helpful in measuring the output in each driver in each speaker, each speaker itself, and then comparing the results from the two speakers wired from your amp in all the possible permutations.

Hope that helps a bit.
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