@ronboco , I understand what you are saying and I’m just trying to step out of old thinking. When I had these speakers on the carpet without anything underneath I was surprised by the SQ. Now on spikes I have increased cabinet resonance and put 10lb dumbbells on towels to lower the cabinet sound. The Tektons are a basic somewhat inexpensive build and lack any sophisticated internal layering. I think this contributes to the cabinet being part of the sound. I purchased the Townsends and was told 2 weeks to produce and ship, so I’ll wait and see. The plus is I should have the speakers somewhat through the break in process. It’s been inconsistent and unfair to gauge improvement due to break in. Regards , Mike B.
Footers under new speakers
Hi , I’m seeking advice regarding footers and/or platforms under my speakers. I purchased Tekton Double Impact’s and have heavy shag carpet and padding over a cement slab floor. House is 35 years old, cement is thick and well cured. I’m from that old mindset of spikes into cement and I am looking for an improvement. I’ve looked online at Gaia footers and Herbie's Studded Giant Gliders. I emailed Herbie’s and specifically inquired about the studded gliders alone on the DI’s over carpet. I asked about stability and was told the speakers were “ heavy enough “. Unfortunately I just set up the DI’s temporarily to get a little break in time. They are without any footers upright on my carpet. At 115 lbs the speaker does about zero to compress the carpet. I understand weight Vs footprint is abysmal but they won’t even stand straight. I’ll probably put the spikes on for a bit until I formulate a plan. But my first concern is that Herbie’s gliders alone are not enough and due to the minimum cost of the speakers I am struggling with purchasing Gaia’s footers and footer spikes. The seismic stands look exceptional, but I’m trying to be frugal. So I’m looking for suggestions like, gliders or dots with or without spikes on wood / stone plinths spiked to the floor. My goal is to try some sort decoupling (Gliders / Springs / Dots) AND eliminate the need of having to rely on the carpet being compressed. And yes I have cheap speakers and seek a cheap solution, so I get that limitation. Unfortunately I can’t afford Tannoy’s or Fynes to compliment my 180 watt tube mono blocs for at least a year. Cheers , Mike B.
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I do think the Townsend Podiums can be an improvement but I think the amount of improvement is very speaker dependent. Especially on concrete which is really pretty stable. In the Townsend video it seems obvious to me that the floor is suspended to get the maximum amount of vibration for the demonstration. I may try them one day but right now I’m not convinced the changes everyone is talking about are solely from eliminating vibrations. I hope you have good luck with your. |
@ronboco , I think the Tektons have quite a bit of cabinet resonance based on what I’ve experienced this past week as a new owner. The other thing is I went low cost on a speaker and at $3200 for the DI’s and $1600 for the Townsends that’s a ridiculous price ratio. I’m not that well funded and could have gone to a nicer speaker at total cost. I am taking a risk based on the side conversations I’ve had with a couple AGON members whose opinion carry a lot of weight. For some reason I just felt compelled to spin the wheel. Anyway I’ll get to play with 3 different speakers on carpet and wood and see what happens. My wife leaves soon for a month outta state and I’m free to be a teen again. I will definitely post my findings and I’ve no problem giving an honest finding , Good or Bad. I’ve been amazed and appreciative that not a single negative has been thrown at me and everyone has varied opinions and we all play well together. Best wishes and thank you , Mike B. |
I answered that question. Read my post again because you seem confused about the 0.01dB I mentioned. The ratio of speaker cone to speaker mass is, in the example previously provided, 1000:1 which means the cone movement will be 1000 times greater than the cabinet which is equivalent to 0.01dB which the human ear can not hear. Once the speaker is placed on the Townshend podium which is sprung the combination will move together but be decoupled from the floor. |
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@buellrider97 has stated " I think the Tektons have quite a bit of cabinet resonance based on what I’ve experienced this past week as a new owner." Based on your early experiences and shortness of a deliberation of the sound being produced, I suspect at present it is a condition met when in front of the Speakers that the source of the sound is able to be located by the ears. The Box is adding a Sound that is not able to be unnoticed, or the Box is adding weight to a frequency that stands out for the locating of the source where the particular range of frequency is being produced. To assist with taming a Cabinet Resonance, if resonance is noticeably present is able to done in certain cases with a Weight Placed on the Top of Speakers Cabinet. A 5Kg Dumb Bell, is a good start to lay on the Speakers Top Face. This can be moved around in 10mm to 20mm increments. When the area is discovered for the weight that had the most effect at tidying up the sound produced, add to the weight, to see if a further improvement to tidy up the sound is able to be produced. If added weight improves things, tweak the positioning of the weight as well. When all is as good as can be, live with it for a period and then try out simple isolators to see what is being added or taken away.
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@pindac , Yes , that’s exactly where I’m at. A few days back I placed a 10 lb dumbbell on top of each speaker. I spent the next two days moving the weight around while listening. I also have purpose made stainless steel round 4 lb weights that look like a TT record weight. I generally run those at the very front edge. By the time the isolation platforms arrive I hope to be through initial break in and basic speaker placement. At that point I’ll be moving the entire system to the appropriate wall , with the appropriate spacing off the back wall and start with the traditional equilateral triangle. I’m also going from 50 wpc SS to 180 wpc tubes. Since it’s a radical change I plan on repeating everything I’ve tried in the same order I’ve done. This is starting with no footers , to footers , to spikes , to weights on top , and adjusting the toe in using a laser. After all that I’ll try the Townsends . I’m allowing at least 4 weeks to experiment with placement. If that peaks my curiosity, I’ll probably try even more stuff. Cheers , Mike B. |
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@emergingsoul , probably nothing. My objective is to try something new, and something other than spikes. I won’t know what is best for me in my setup until I try everything as you well know. Over the few years I’ve been on this site more and more people talk about DECOUPLING various pieces of gear. So I just want to try something new and out of my comfort zone. I have considered casters and have looked at peoples systems. This whole carpet thing is an obstacle I’m stuck with for now. I started by looking at Herbies Gliders and it’s morphed into this thread. I worry about instability because the carpet is so thick. And then we have all the choices. I have tried spiked platforms in my current layout with spiked Zu Omens on metal discs to protect the 4” thick walnut footers. That was a disaster sound wise. That particular speaker has the finger ports on the bottom that makes placement critical. Zu has since changed their design. So now with the 54” tall and 115 lb Tektons I’m starting from scratch. At some point I wail try casters , as one setup I saw online had big Tannoy’s on huge wooden footers that had casters. I really like the idea of being able to pull my speakers out when the need presents like now trying to adjust bass by back wall distance. I usually start low cost and go up to my low ceiling based on funding. Because this is totally new I jumped out of my cost range and purchased Townsend footers. So I’m starting at what I consider the Top and working down. One of my thoughts to your suggestion is to have casters on a platform or outrigger style bases under my speakers. At 12”X 17” and 54” tall they are a tall and unstable object. I am in the process of discussing this with the Tough Nut Isolation Cone staff and when they saw what I had they recommended their cylinders over the rubber cone footers. So I’m going to try a few things and share my results. The leftovers I plan to repurpose as component isolation footers. My worse case scenario is I sell it off if I can’t use it. So thank you for your input , it is valued and I will try it at some point. Regards, Mike B. |
@buellrider97 As you may know Bowers does a great job with casters and it's huge deal to buy speakers with mobility potential. Casters are used by dealers when they go to hotel shows. |
@emergingsoul Absolutely, my friend who gifted me my amps has spent 6 figures on his gear. He just packed up for a house move. He has new B&W’s that are the expensive ones. He had to box them for the movers. They roll into their cartons and pack away with ease. I have Tektons that came in essentially non reusable packing and totally understand this issue. I went from 6’ and 230 lbs with a 300 lb bench and a 450 lb deadlift to not being able to unscrew the cap on a water bottle over the past 7-8 years. But hobbies such as this give me great joy and allow me to be 16 years old and discover new things. Life is good , Mike B. |
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@knighttodd , That’s a great idea that never occurred to me, thanks. If I could afford what I want I’d buy the Tannoy’s that you have. I almost pulled the trigger on a pair of used Prima Luna Evos, but I was gifted my pair of Rogue M-180’s and had them upgraded to Dark. Your system really appeals to me, and the Camero is Sweet! Regards, Mike B. |
On the first post in this string, I mentioned that the most likely consensus would be that Townshend Podiums are the most universally recommended solution. Also, that I probably needed to heed my own advice and get some. So, I did. I received them this morning. My speakers are Sonus Faber Amati Traditional. My listening room is carpet on concrete. After removing the spikes and wrestling my 135 pound speakers onto the very substantial podiums the sonic improvement was instantly obvious. I tend to measure sonic improvements in terms of the addition of a direct line. To me it is kind of a measure of value. A direct line can cost around $1K or so currently. The improvement is very noticeable. It is often like an interconnect or power cord upgrade... or component. However, the Podiums offer a different kind of upgrade. To me is sound improved in focus and image detail. A significant improvement. But it completely leaves out tonal balance, and aspects that are often associated with electronics. Which, of course makes sense.... but you never know what you are going to hear before you do. Anyway, I’m sure I’ll be learning more about the subtile aspects of the improvement over the coming weeks. OP, thank for starting this thread... got me thinking and on the stick to do this. |