Eversolo DMP-A8 vs iPhone plugged directly to integrated amp - why no difference?

Hi y’all

I’ve come back to this thread to correct a wrong and apologize to Eversolo and to anyone offended by my unwarranted opinion.

I auditioned the Eversolo DMP-A8 (as some on this very thread know from a recent post about the audition).

I think the A8 is a very nice piece of kit and likely competes very well against the HiFi Rose 150 (as one example), but $3K less money.

Is not this comparison report extremely good for those who are expressing an interest in adding a Downstream System to be used with a Source with capabilities to produce Streamed Data, that is Music Recordings.

As individuals, of which there are many, already invested in an iPhone or other Phone Tech’, are through this Thread and others similar, now encountering reports that give a reassurance their daily work horse will also be quite capable / may prove to be quite capable, if extended in its usage and used as a Source in a Electronics Based Audio System.

A Forum Membership would certainly Grow if those using such Sources were made to feel very welcome when they add their contributions.

Bring it on, bring Cell Phone Streaming Experiences to the table, whether used solely as the Source or known how it compares through comparisons to alternate streaming devices having been experienced.

may i please ask for Eversolo A8's users' experience with streaming Apple Music and Apple Music Classical please?

i am considering buying the A8 specifically to be able to stream Apple Music and Apple Music Classical at high resolution.

thank you in advance.

Thank you, @helomech.  I went back to look at two reviewers whom I have listened to more closely: Soundnews and iiwi. Soundnews rated the A8's dedicated line amp section very highly and considered the DAC section as good as the Gustard A26 (another sota). These two components, together with the already excellent digital streaming section, make the A8 stand out and pull ahead of everything else at a similar price point of $2k. However, despite giving similar high marks to its streaming section, iiwi has concerns about its preamp section, even stating that it becomes a limiting factor to the overall performance of the A8. As far as the DAC section goes, iiwi believes it is comparable to around $1k DACs in the market, with the Gustard R26 outperforming it.

Based on these disparities in listening tests, I am not sure if the AIO A8 is readily a replacement for your BM LA4. However, as we know, listening tests are subjective, and objective measurements could easily counter those qualitative evaluations if one chooses to trust the measurements. I also previously owned the E70V, and I liked it initially but returned it after more extensive auditioning later. It is indeed the first Topping DAC that I had which provided 'some' soundstage depth that I am craving.  Just my two cents.

@lanx0003 

The most recent Stereophile issue is what I was referencing. To get access to those measurements you must subscribe to either the digital or print versions of their magazine. In fact, I purchased six months of their digital subscription for the sole purpose of accessing some of their most recent reviews, including the DMP-A8. Both the digital and analog preamp functions of the A8 nearly equal the best objective performance of all components previously measured by both Stereophile and Audio Science Review. Having owned other products with SOTA quantitative performance (such as Benchmark LA4 and Topping E70V), I can confirm that the DMP-A8 is their equal in subjective performance. I am now considering selling my Benchmark LA4, the only advantage it has over the DMP-A8 is L/R channel balance control. 
 

The DMP-A8 is butter smooth but without sacrificing any detail—one of the best bargains I’ve encountered in all my years in this “hobby.” 

@helomech The DMP-A8 has state of the art transparency as recently confirmed by Stereophile’s measurements.

Would you please indicate the source for it?  Thanks.

Interesting thread. I recently upgraded from the bluesound node (newest release) to the Eversolo A8. I still have and use several bluesounds in other parts of the house but I am very happy with the eversolo and feel it is significan upgrade from the node. I am surprised you didn’t hear a difference with the iPhone. I read some suggestions about the settings, I can say the A8 has a significant number of filter and DSP setting which can change the sound for good or bad. I would start with the base config and try playing with the filers. I use a slow roll off filter. Also, try to use the XLR connections to your preamp if possible. Lastly, I tried the A8 with an old dac (Teac). This was over 10 years old and was not very expensive when new. When I first hooked it up via USB from the A8, I felt like I heard a warmer, more full sound. But as time went on I noticed significant background noise that tended to muddy some songs and I ended up switching back to the A8 dac which is much cleaner, quieter, and more detailed which I prefer. I don’t know if this helps but don’t be afraid to play around with rhe system and sometimes you may find that less is more. My personal feeling is if you configure the A8 right and you use the internal DAC via XLRs you will be very happy with your purchase. Good luck.

I have the A8 and it’s the best sounding digital source I’ve ever had. Have all my CDs on the internal SSD. Makes for a very convenient way to access all my 400 or so CDs. High rez streaming from Qobuz sounds great. The DAC settings are subtle but there. I had tried the Wiim pro and thought it sounded pretty bad. The A8 DAC chip is advertised as "velvet sound" and it does indeed sound smooth but still has detail. Only thing I didn’t like was the analog in side with my phono pre amp - seemed to lose some air - so I just use the A8 as an input to my Schiit Saga pre amp.

Yes, lower resolving audio systems/speakers using lower rez streaming, one might not see a big difference between it and lower price/quality sources. I think variations in digital sound quality between various components is generally not very great. Digital isn’t vinyl. Vinyl is still king even compared with the highest rez streaming available. Although the 24/96 from Qobuz sounds really really good.  And Tidal has very little of that compared to Qobuz.

@helomech Thanks for that info. Answer that makes the most sense so far based on what I've been trying, if the answer I feared most. I'm gonna return the Eversolo and slowly look into new systems and reproach streamers later. I do actually like how my vinyl sounds on the Audio Notes but I'm open to what I find.

And @jji666 both streaming Tidal at highest available stream quality. 

Did the OP ever identify the streaming source?  How useful can the discussion be without knowing that?

Low-res tube amp mated to low-res Audio Note speakers could be why you don’t hear a difference.

The DMP-A8 has state of the art transparency as recently confirmed by Stereophile’s measurements. Any situation in which such components are bottlenecked downstream, as is the case when any (Yes, ANY!) tube amp is mated to non-linear speakers, you won’t hear the source at its full potential.

I understand why many will doubt this assertion because audiophilia is chock full of hullabaloo, but you don’t have to take my word for it. Try a pair of high res monitors with high quality, low distortion drivers, and amplification with transparency similar to Benchmark’s and you’ll become a believer. The funny thing is it cost relatively little to compile such a system these days. Technology has marched on thankfully.

@lanx0003 

Statements like the one you made could potentially destroy their dreams.

Let's bring this back to planet earth shall we.

The global audio consumer market doesn't give a hoot what I think. My potential to destroy anyone's hopes and dreams in an industry where I am just another consumer is akin to removing a grain of sand from a beach and suggesting I accelerated beach erosion.

But I'll give you a gold star and permission to pat yourself on the back for defending the capable young women and men who are potentially pursuing their dreams and aiming to become entrepreneurs and pioneers in the audio industry. Whomever they are, I sincerely hope they are paid well and treated fairly. 

However, a true hero would have sold the unsatisfactory product on the used market and allowed the Company to profit from the sale rather than incur a loss processing the return. 

@macg19  My statement applies only to the experience related to the specific product A6 that I purchased. I am not supporting your case or endorsing your unfounded speculation.

Yes, this is a free country and everyone has the right to express their opinions. However, I want to remind you to always put yourself into others' shoes. What if this company was founded by a group of capable young women and men who are pursuing their dreams and aiming to become entrepreneurs and pioneers in the audio industry? Statements like the one you made could potentially destroy their dreams.

@lanx0003 You're kinda helping my case...but my claim was that my gut (intuition) tells me the Company is in it for a quick buck as opposed to a long-term strategy of making high-quality gear and earning a good reputation. It is how I feel. I don't have to prove how I feel to anyone (actually I did by stating it), and of course anyone is entitled to disagree with me.

There is nothing illegal or even immoral really about any Company that want's to make a quick buck (as long as they aren't stealing IP). There are hundreds of such companies in this industry. 

Don't express opinions based on imagination. The burden of proof is on you if you make such a claim. @macg19 

Nevertheless, I didn't have a positive experience with the everSolo A6, despite finally deciding to purchase it after so much hype. I ended up returning it. I can make that claim because I purchased it and auditioned it for 20 days.

@1happyman 

I did not proffer that opinion.

I own the Eversolo A8. Originally, I used it in front of my Audible Illusions preamp. I was amazed at the inprovement when I took the preamp out of the chain and used the XLR inputs from the A8 to my amp. I find the A8 internal preamp sounds great without another preamp in the chain. 

Thanks @ghdprentice for your zero evidence negative opinion.

@ghdprentice I have zero evidence but my gut tells me Eversolo is nothing more than a short-term private equity play. Maybe a HiFi Rose knock-off.

Their About Us page on their website is informative. Meaningless company description and the same stock pic of hands on a keyboard on Eversolo and their parent company Zidoo’s website.

@macg19 “Or, the Eversolo is great on paper but poorly executed.” 
 

Unfortunately, that is another possibility. 

I just tried this. I said "hello". The response was "stop listening to nutcases on Audiogon"

OP     "why no difference?"

To know why there is no difference, evaluate the sound of your audio system.

While your audio system playing your favorite music, say "hello" in low voice and listen your voice and music. You'll find why it's difficult to find the sound of different components. Alex/WTA.

My wife has the aA 8  and forsure you need a good Ethernet cable from your router  ,the most important is going to the A8 at least a $4-500 (ethernet) cable

Where is @jasonbourne71 when you need him? 

Or, the Eversolo is great on paper but poorly executed.    

Hey, goodonya for trusting your ears and not convincing yourself the Eversolo sounds better just because it’s more expensive or because it “should” sound better.  Maybe try your phone as a source at the dealer and see what happens there.  Best of luck in getting to the bottom of this — it’s a puzzle fer sure, and I’d be very interested in what you ultimately find.  

@audphile1 

+1 No response is the biggest flag.

Thanks a ton for all the replies. To start with the member who asked if I'm a bot, I'm not. Saw the first two replies, wanted to see what others might add, and simply got busy and didn't log back in until now. But really do appreciate everyone.

For me, I'm not sure that it's the iPhone sounding as good as the Eversolo so much as the Eversolo sounding like the iPhone. I hear those who commented on the power supply and interconnect but the iPhone is on a very cheap RCA adapter so even if both have bad cables, the "better" one should sound better no? That said, I do have upgraded power supply and chord and WBC interconnects (I know they're not actually the world's best but shouldn't be the worst either).

I'm also not hearing the slightest difference between the different DAC settings. And I have tried both with the preamp turned up and on bypass to control volume from the amp. 

I think from here I just need to go grab my Sonos and DacMagic from storage later in the week and see how they compare to the Eversolo and iPhone. (If that sounds better, maybe I return the Eversolo unit for another one or even stick with what I had until I eventually make some more significant changes in the system.) If there's no difference still, then I'll know the issue may be somewhere else. But that will be so odd. Maybe I'll even hop into a local store to test some different equipment and make sure my ears are working!

For what it's worth, @moonwatcher mentions reviewers calling the Eversolo thin sounding and I will say it sounds thinner than I remember my system sounding. 

@soix wrote, "Something’s wrong somewhere. I compared my iPad into my DAC (using Qobuz) bypassing its internal DAC, and my relatively modest iFi Zen Stream sounded much better as a streaming source. I can only imagine the iPad being even worse if I was using its DAC as well."

Ah, if your DAC is doing the reclocking (i.e. you are using USB from both the Zen and the iPad), then you are proving that contrary to many folks, the streamer can still make a difference, even feeding 1’s and 0’s that are supposedly identical.

I’m not an electronics engineer, but there must be "something" happening if you can hear a difference, and especially if the Zen sounds better than an iPAD in this regard.

Maybe we don’t all need $2K streamers, but the use of consumer level "lowest common denominator" Swiss Army convenience devices like iPads leave a bit to be desired. Not bad maybe for an initial step into streaming, but definitely something that can be bettered for not a huge outlay.

Good luck to the OP in figuring out why the *analog* output from an iPhone would even begin to approach that of a dedicated $2K streamer/DAC. Maybe he needs a "control" streamer like a NAD MXN10 ($500) just as a point of comparison.  The $2 DAC inside the iPhone should be pretty atrocious. 

Not to whip a dead horse but do note that some YouTubers have said the Eversolo streamers err on the thinner analytical side, so maybe that is why he doesn’t hear a huge difference. Just a guess and only a guess.

@painter24 : I agree the latest iPhone is a ripoff! I use a cheap TCL phone ($100)  and it is fine! 

OP joined 6/10/2024 and that’s when this was posted. All follow up questions went unanswered. Perhaps a bot? Are they getting this much better?

hey @juanitro like in a Discover commercial…prove that you’re not a robot…

I agree with others, something is wrong somewhere. What service are you using and how? There are frequently so many ways to configure these things you could be using a very low res source or transmission method.

A couple things, check what DAC settings are being used on the A8, it seems there are a lot of options. More importantly, the A8 is a preamp, and so is the integrated. Ideally the A8 should be turned up to 100% or configured for line level to bypass the volume. Then only use the volume on the integrated. 

My wife has the aA 8  and forsure you need a good Ethernet cable from your router  ,the most important is going to the A8 at least a $4-500 cable ,

as as others have said Never use a stock power cord .

for low budget the Pangea sig mk2 awg14 big step up and only $200

the cheap $5 wall wart power supply get rid of it more noise buy a linear power supply . And put the A8 on slow roll off filter.

My wife has the aA 8  and forsure you need a good Ethernet cable from your router  ,the most important is going to the A8 at least a $4-500 cable ,

as as others have said Never use a stock power cord .

for low budget the Pangea sig mk2 awg14 big step up and only $200

the cheap $5 wall wart power supply get rid of it more noise buy a linear power supply . And put the A8 on slow roll off filter.

@juanitro I started a similar thread a while ago and got the same pushback from people who like to say “trust your ears“ unless your ears disagree with their preformed opinions and experiences. I’m interested what model iPhone you have I use an old iPhone 6s that has the Sim card removed, and I also shut off the Bluetooth service and feel that it does a pretty nice job of delivering a quality digital stream. I’m sure there are changes between the older and newer iPhones, either for better or worse. At least I would not be surprised if that were the case . 

@OP - am I correct in my interpretation of your post that you took the analogue audio output of the iphone into one of the analogue inputs of the PrimaLuna?

That being the case, I have to say that I am surprised that a dedicated streamer/DAC doesn't sound better. I'm even more surprised that it doesn't at least sound different in your experience.

I haven't heard the Eversolo but its technical performance is superb and that does matter when if comes to digital. Perhaps your wi fi is a limiting factor?

🤣🤣🤣

@painter24 +1 And it stops playing music when I leave the house which really annoys my wife.

Ironic talking about "the spend more" cult when the new flagship iPhone sells for £1500. 😧. That would easily buy you a Innuos Pulse mini and a whole host of very good streamers

@jasonbourne71 Ha! A bit too quick on the draw there buddy, I said a $2,000 streamer/DAC SHOULD sound better, not WILL sound better. If it doesn’t send it back.

And you also missed the Node reference, which I own. $400. Sounds really good and yes, better than  my iPhone.

@macg19 -1 another member of the "spend more" cult!

@lanx0003 +1 nice to know that someone agrees with me!

Go back to the less costly setup. Don't fall for the hype that spending more and more gets you a substantial improvement in sound quality. Apparently the iPhone is good enough to compete with streamers that cost way more!

I tried so many songs, with the A8 reading highest quality stream on Tidal, and I switched back and forth between the two with practically no difference in same songs.

and this switching back and forth, was it done from a listening chair or were you standing by the component rack evaluating the difference? I don’t even think iPhone is capable of outputting hi-res audio. I think it downsamples everything to 16/44. So there’s something wrong with your evaluation process or the Eversolo is a complete hype and rip off. I’m not familiar with the Eversolo so anything is possible…

Nonetheless, there’s no doubt that the iPhone is a fine streamer.

@lanx0003 Yeah there sure is doubt. I know what I heard and when I ran my iPhone with an upgraded lightning to USB adapter from LavriCables into my DAC and it sounded worse than even using my cheap Oppo as a CD transport. The Zen Stream with their iPowerX power supply and using the same USB cable as I did with my iPhone sounded significantly better than both the iPhone and the Oppo and it wasn’t close. Common sense would tell you a multipurpose, noisy phone should not sound nearly as good as a purpose-built streamer, and it sure did not in my direct comparison.

Apple engineers figured out a long time ago how to use the iPhone as a fine streamer. It does not have a good internal DAC as we all know and connecting it to an external DAC can make a significant difference in sound quality. Its single USB-C or Lightning port can serve two-way digital transmission, while other brands' streamers still struggle. By using the proper adapters and power supply, I can energize an external storage device like an SSD to access local music. The music is clean and transparent compared to using the same setup with an iFi Zen and a low-noise PSU. Additionally, iPhone apps function much more smoothly due to the iPhone's higher computing power and memory. You will likely see more and more high-end streamers pursuing the same trend.

Trust your ears. Don't let others' poor experiences with the iPhone deter you. Everyone's mileage may vary, but what's most important is that you've found what works for you. That's a good thing. I still use other streamers like iFi or WiiM because every time I wire my iPhone to the DAC and amp/preamp, I lose the portability of the iPhone, and the adapters/PSU for external devices can be cumbersome. Nonetheless, there's no doubt that the iPhone is a fine streamer.

Something’s wrong somewhere. I compared my iPad into my DAC (using Qobuz) bypassing its internal DAC, and my relatively modest iFi Zen Stream sounded much better as a streaming source. I can only imagine the iPad being even worse if I was using its DAC as well.

I’m no expert but my first question would be what is your streaming source and is the stream resolution set correctly. Also interconnect cables do matter.

But yes a $2K streamer/DAC should sound better than an iPhone. Heck, a $500 BlueSound Node sounds way better than an iPhone.