End Game Turntable suggestions

SP10R new or SP10mK3 used (and dialed by JP Jones)

Has anyone tried Vertere brand TT and phono? 

Luxman PD-151 is an excellent choice 

coming in under your budget 

I had a Pure Fidelity Encore

And my Lyra Delos picked up rf noise from the motor 

Tried several different arms same noise

Good luck Willy-T

The only table I would consider (and I'm not) would be a Well Tempered.

The VPI HW-40 does check off many boxes. Gimbal arm. Speed stability. Timeless looks. Massive platter. Flip up dust cover to keep that stylus safe. Multiple voltages. Unless the footprint is too excessive,  the HW-40 is a serious contender.

The job of a turntable is to spin at the proper speed, prevent any spurious vibration from getting to the tonearm and sound like NOTHING. Anything it adds to "the sound" is distortion.

The job of the tonearm is to hold the cartridge solidly in the proper orientation, move to two directions only and absorb any energy coming from the cartridge to prevent it from reflecting. It should also not have a "sound."

The job of the cartridge is to translate the physical waveform on the record into an electrical waveform. It also should not have a "sound."

It is the record that "sounds." A record playing machine should not add or subtract anything to the sound that is on the record. The design of turntables, tonearms and cartridges should be evaluated with this in mind. A record player is a vibration measuring device. The cartridge has no way of knowing where the vibration is coming from. It will turn any vibration into an electrical signal. The environment is loaded with vibrational energy and the turntable has to isolate the other parts of the system from all of it. Mass will not do it. If a turntable does not have a proper isolation suspension then it should be placed on one. It is much cheaper if one is built into the turntable. The Dohmann Helix is probably the epitome of a suspended turntable. The classic is the AR XA followed by the Thorens TD 125 and the Linn LP12. SOTA was the first to hang a turntable from springs instead of sitting it on top of springs, a much more stable design. Basis, SME and Avid followed suit.  The RP 10 is a lot of turntable for the money. It is suspended on squishy rubber feet. It has a very stiff chassis and a great tonearm. Up from that price wise is the Sota Sapphire with a Kuzma 4 Point 9 then up the Sota line to the Cosmos. At this point we are already above the OP's budget but continuing onwards are the Avid Acutus and the SMEs. Next is Basis then the Dohmann Helix. Both Sota and Basis tables can be had with vacuum clamping. When a tonearm tracks over warps the groove velocity changes and causes pitch to waver which is painfully obvious and far exceeds the minimal wow and flutter most modern turntables have. Vacuum clamping is the best at flattening the record. Reflex clamping Like the SMEs, the Acutus, non vacuum Sotas and the Helix is second best. A record weight does little to nothing. Ring clamps are a PITA to use and an accident waiting to happen. Of the turntables I mentioned above only the Sotas use a magnetic thrust bearing which is an advantage in terms of noise and durability. It does exactly the same thing as Techdas's air bearing at a fraction of the complexity and cost. 

Second or third the advice on Pure Fidelity. I really loved mine and only sold it because of my upgrade to my current Palmer.  I had just noticed that the good folks at Fidelis have a used one available which might be worth a call:

https://fidelisav.com/pre-owned/pure-fidelity-encore-pf10-w-stratos-cartridge-santos-rosewood-finish

read what M.Fremer posted in his review of the DD SAT XD-1 100K+ TT
 

“XD1's engine does begin life as the SP-10R's basic drive system”

I had a similar situation, only I limited myself to $5K. I decided on a VPI Prime and Hana SH. I have absolutely no regrets, even with the JMW 10.5" Unipivot arm. I handles the relatively low-compliance Hana MC easily. The two biggest advantages are 1) the longer length simply has less tracing error than an otherwise fine Rega or other 9" class tonearms, and doesn't suffer the high mass issues of a 12" transcription-style arm 2) The VPI adjustable height base is a joy. As for the turntable itself, the 20 Lb platter and equally massive plinth and motor work well together to provide very solid bass and ultra-quiet background. The mechanical derailling for 45RPM is trivial, and using the stock feet I have never felt the need for an extra isolation platform. I think the VPI Prime and now VPI Prime 21 owe no apologies to anyone, and the lower distortion from the longer arm is inarguable. 

Consider the Merrill-Williams REAL. A number of dealers were using them to demo their equipment at AXPONA and it sounded very detailed and tuneful. You might also look at Clearaudio and Acoustic Signature. 

I have a trustworthy dealer that supplied most of my system including TT and PS.

He strongly suggested ClearAudio (which was cheaper) over the P10.

He said next up from the performance DC was either the ClearAudio Innovation Compact or Basic OR the Technics SL1000R, which surprised me.

He said the SL1000 beat his $55K AMG.

3rd hand info I know...good luck

I own and love the Rega P8 with the Alpheta 3 cartridge.  Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and to my eye the P8 looks so much nicer than big heavy TTs.  That's just an opinion, but there you have it.  Great performance, great looks.  Drop the mic. 😂

@rauliruegas thanks for taking the time to share your detailed thoughts.

On the Zesto phonostage -  must admit I don't fully grasp your point. I may like how it sounds, but that maybe because I don't know what to compare it with. I upgraded from a Jolida JD9 to this Andros II unit as it pairs well with the Zesto Let pre, and its definitely an upgrade, but keen to understand the shortcomings better.

I have the Avenger Reference with Rim, Lyra Etna. 

I think you would do well with the HW40. 

The only downside is the repair or maintenance on the DD motor.  Something I don't want to deal with ever. 

"I own a VPI HW40 and am very happy with it.  I have also listened extensively to a Rega 10 and would be quite happy to listen to either one forever."

@billstevenson that is really interesting. I will put P10 on my list, i just like the timeless look of the HW40 and its room presence. If the DD motor ever goes bad, any idea if there will be a problem in repairing? Thanks

End Game.. I guess that is where I’m at.  I decided to stop buying equipment .. and no more ice cream.

We have ALL said this at one time or another 😂

End Game.. I guess that is where I’m at.  I decided to stop buying equipment .. and no more ice cream.

No more ice cream??! That's crazy talk!

The SL-1200 will last you trouble free for 40 years with minimal maintenance 

why not get one

i still use mine from 1985-6

and one I bought. In late 90’s

all flawless, no belts, always turn on.,always precise, great sound, and reliable.

lifetime TT

End Game.. I guess that is where I’m at.  I decided to stop buying equipment .. and no more ice cream.

I’ve the VPI Signature 21, but avoid the unipivot arm.  I’m coming from a 1200G/Hana ML.  The Technics/Hana are a great value package, but I understand that you don’t want the 1200. .  I went with an end of the bank account cartridge, so that would not work, but it did make the VPI really sound great.  For me, the Signature 21 was the sweet spot for VPI.  Pretty sure the HW40 is a better turntable.

Avid and Woodpeckers are good looking and high end. 

I also have a Michell Orbe SE but it required a full Pedersen mod to get it anywhere close to even an entry level SME.

Pedersen Michell Turntable Mod Kits

Michell Gyro SE 

I own a VPI HW40 and am very happy with it.  I have also listened extensively to a Rega 10 and would be quite happy to listen to either one forever. 

Thorens love my 1600. 

Dear @musicmatters1206  : The RP-10 comes with an excellent tonearm too, read what M.Fremer posted in his review of the DD SAT XD-1 100K+ TT ( with out SAT tonearm ) using Lyra Atlat, top Ortofon and other top cartridges and comparing against the Continumm $$$$$ BD TT:

" The XD1 shares some sonic characteristics with Rega's revolutionary RP 10 turntable: ultrafast, clean transients throughout the audible frequency range; tight, fast bass; revealing midrange transparency; and overall sonic stability and focus. All these characteristics result, apparently, from careful attention paid to structural rigidity and the removal or prevention of unwanted vibrational energy "

R.

Agree.

"If i can stretch the budget it really does check every box in my list. Also I heard it at a show last year, but of course how they sound on 200+K systems is a different matter..."

musicmatters1206-

If I were in the buying mode w/$10K burning in my pocket, a used HW40 would be on my short list.

While VPI is pooh poohed by the purists, I've never heard a properly setup VPI sound bad. I use a Classic, and like the traditional look, which the HW 40 follows.

Put a $5K+ LOMC and proper phono stage=done.

1200G / Rega 8 or 10 are fabulous looking turntables and whatever’s sonically left isn’t worth worrying about.

It really, really isn’t.

I’ve not heard the Rega 10 but the 8 was certainly impressive.

Despite the low mass approach (or maybe because of it?) it had rock solid stability.

Dear @musicmatters1206  : " End Game Turntable suggestions "

End game? really?.  It's almost impossible to have " end game " but the RP-10/tonearm combination is really near to and with a Lyra LOMC cartridge from Kleos to Atlas then Icould say: you are done.

But in my opinion you have a severe tweak system link with that phono stage that not only as 10k on output impedance that goes mainly but not only the HF range but additional its critical and way important to achieve a high quality system levels performance ist that the invese RIAA eq.curve has a high frequency deviation swing of 1db that affects not only the discrete notes but harmonics too and puts a colored/distorted sound reproduction. I know that you like it and my opinion is only that.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,

R.

Thanks everyone for the suggestions so far and please keep it coming. @vinylvalet i will definitely add SME to the list, As for Rega,.....i am sure they sound good but i have this bias for mass that i will need to overcome. 

@dodgealum I will check out Pure Fidelity, was unaware of the brand.

@tablejockey VPI HW-40 is also 110-240v, which is a huge plus, not very common among US makers from what i see. If i can stretch the budget it really does check every box in my list. Also I heard it at a show last year, but of course how they sound on 200+K systems is a different matter...

@boothroyd ,  The OP stated he won’t consider the SL1200G because of the looks which is very important to him.  I would also recommend the SME 6,  or a VPI Prime Signature with the gimballed  arm. There are many others which I can’t think of that may also be to your liking.  I owned a Rega Planar 3 and very much disliked the TT.  It sounded light with no body but I was using a Blue Point Special at the time, hence I do not recommend Rega. 

Well for sure check out Pure Fidelity. Absolutely love my Harmony/OL Conqueror combo. Choose a lower arm in the range and you are close to your budget. I’m running a Charisma Signature One which is awesome at $4K check out the review that just dropped on Stereo Times. The PF tables are really well made and lovely to look at with gorgeous veneer and paint options. Good luck!

@vinylvalet  👍 nice suggestions 

As something more ambitious, a Technics 1200 G with the addition of an eBay Stainless Steel armboard coupled with an SME M2-9 would be rightfully nice, especially voiced with a Luxman Tungsten polymer record mat.

Back in my retail “daze” I had set up a few Luxman PD-171A with special edition Silver finish SME Model 310 tonearms that were sonically & aesthetically beautiful.

Of the choices provided, the Origin Live Sovereign seems most appealing.

"VPI HW-40 going for abt 11K used)"

Find the right seller and proper negotiating, you could probably get one for $10K or less. 

Used VPI's are plentiful, so you're in the driver's seat for what you want to pay.

I'd add the Rega P10 w/Apheta to your list for the "best" plug n play/set and forget table.

Consider adding a Rega RP10 or SME Model 6 to your list. Both are set it and forget it with excellent sound quality.

My main system is Zesto phono, line stage and amp with an SME 20/3 table.