Ayre.....I've never had a problem with mine, Great sound
Do they make a quiet great sounding phono pre amp??
Hi, I have purchased and listened to 3 phono preamps which are: A musical surroundings phonomena, musical surroundings Nova II, and a Manley labs Chinook. The Manely labs Chinook is by far bettter sounding then the first two (double the cost too). But, All three have given me nothing but trouble (noise,noise,noise even terrible clipped signals!), and 2 of them basically failed on me. So before I go DIGITAL, can someone please tell me who makes a phono preamp in the $2,000-$3,000 range (tube or solid state) that I can rely on, and sounds as good or better than the Chinook?? Thanks.
Matt M
Matt M
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Hi unchilled, Our psychology or rather vanity is glad to see or hear any praise of our own stuff. Raul's praise would imply that such a worthy phono-pre would have more owners than one can deduce from the (lack) of their reaction. Anyway I expected to see some reaction from Dover because he asked for the user manual for Klyne 7 PX. Considering pretty complicated and confusing adjustment possibilities one would expect more interest in exchange of mutual experiences and valuation. I am very thankful for contribution by atmasphere but expected to get more information than so far provided . |
Hi Matt, Congratulations on solving system grounding. I would add to Raul's praise of the Klyne. One year ago I purchased a 7PX2 that Mr. Klyne had just serviced. Not only quiet, but natural timbres. The adjustable high frequency contour is a wonderful feature for optimizing sound of MC cartridges without resorting to "overloading" (i.e. use of low impedance load to attenuate excessive HF energy.) Happy listening, Harvey |
Well this can't be evolutionary but only revolutionary development. Yesterday I was a laymen and today an expert reg. Klyne's 7PX. Thanks to atmasphere I aproached those switches without any fear. According to him those are not important and unimportant things nobody approches with fear. But the first lesson is that there is no subsitution for our own experimentation. Becasuse the lowest amplification ''imply'' the lowest distortion I have chosen the lowest one (36dB) with switches 7 and 9 in ON position (the front bank) and nr.10 OFF and 4,5,6,7,8 and 9 in ON position on the back side ''bank''. According to the user manual this setting means the lowest circuit source impedance. Then I connected my Denon AU-S1 with Klyne as well with my amp. No hum of any kind not even this ''low noise'' near the tweeter. Even my Basis Exclusive is no match for this 7PX/ SUT combo. Whoever owns the 7PX should try a SUT. |
Dear atmasphere, There is no way to know at which frequency which LOMC resonate because such info is not mentioned by the cart specs. One is supposed to ''detect'' them by listening and this made me already nervous despite the fact that I probably have the disease you mentioned (grin). The confusing part in the user manual is called ''High Frequency Contour Settings'' but this setting is made with (10) switches which also need to be used for impedance,uh, setting. That is why mentiond 3 categories with two ''banks'' with switches. Those for the amplification are easy to understand in contradistinction with the other switches. If I understand your advice well I don't need to worry about those switches which I don't understand. What a relieve! Thanks. |
@nandric Cartridge loading is required if the phono section is unstable with ultrasonic or radio frequency signals present, which will be the case with all LOMC cartridges. This is because their inductance interacts with the capacitance of the tone arm cable to create a tuned circuit that resonates at ultrasonic or radio frequencies. If the preamp is disturbed by this otherwise inaudible noise, then the loading calms it down by detuning the circuit. Apparently the Klyne is fairly well sorted out and so the loading is there mostly so audiophiles suffering from audiophile nervosa will have some switches to play with. IOW if the preamp is stable, you don't need them. |
I made my choice and bought the Klyne 7PX. Alas I find the user manual very confusing. There are three ''adjustment categories'' but only two ''banks'' with switches . One in front for the choice of the amplification (35, 50 and 63dB) the other on the back side wih 10 switches for impedance choice but as well for the choice of the dampening of the h. frequency resonances by MC carts at 30 Khz, 35 and 40 Khz. The other specific possibility is to chose 47 Kohm for the MC carts as well. Lew and Raul seem to like this impedance value. By the recommended values for the carts included in the user manual the 47 Kohm is prefered value but in addition to either of those dampening ''resonance values''. For example (my) Urushi 47 Kohm + 35 Khz. However for the 47 Kohm one need to switch nr. 10 in OFF position but for any of the recommended resonance damping one need to put the same switch in ON position. My specific problem is the optimal adjustment for the , say, MM part of the 7PX because I want to use my SUT with 35 dB amplification by 7Px. But I will be also thankfull if someone can explain the contradictory switch 10 in ON as well OFF position. |
Dear Lew, No reaction from you so I will answer your logical question. Your assumption is: ''No x Fx and Gx''. My assumption is: ''some x Fx and Gx''. My assumption is true if there is just one member (of set x) who has heard both (F) Klyne 7 PX and (G) Van den Hul's Grail. Your assumption is false if there is just one member who has heard both phono-pres. Because nobody answered my question you are probaly right. |
@mechans , many manufacturers do not post list prices on their websites. If you are interested, contact Mehran at Sorasound, he is a Klyne dealer. Yes, the Klyne website hasn't changed in the 12+ years that I've been looking at it. I would guess the top phono stage would go for about $7500-$9000 list. I had the top level 7PX5.0 preamp roughly 9-10 years ago, and it's list at the time was $5500 if my memory is correct. Great phono stage, one of the pieces I regret selling. |
I am still curious about one thing. What is the price of the current Klyne phono pre. The best model, whatever designation they use. I went to the Klyne web site which is a little odd, as it is called " Klyne Audio Arts" or something like that. Then there is no price list. I wonder why so many manufacturers refuse to post a list price. I hate the idea that they make it up at the last second after sizing you up and figuring "how much can I get out of this guy?" I might post that as a topic. If I don't feel free to do so. |
i'm glad to hear that you've sorted out your ground-loop issue! that said, i wanted to put in a brief plug for the Dynavector P75 phono stage. it was designed to go with your cartridges and there's real synergy to be had there. well worth taking a flyer on a used one to see if it floats your boat -- easy to move on if it doesn't move you. |
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OK, I hear what you guys are saying about using the cheater plugs. So, I removed them....
I surely had a ground problem, after I changed my plugs around I was
able to kill the noise and no more popping!! I plugged everything into a
cheap grounded power strip, except the sub and main amplifier (directly
to wall outlet). I listened last night and the system is sounding really incredible. I am very pleased now. So to be clear I am now using only 2 wall outlets that are on the same wall behind the system and all grounds are plugged in. Thanks a lot everyone for the advice. Matt Miller |
Hi Matt. I waited and waited, and, searched and searched - then I got a Vendetta SCP2a. Old elctrolytic caps damaged my Lavardin IT, but once replaced, and with modern IC's my phono stage search has come to an end. The only phono stage I have come across that measures quieter than the original is the top of the range Moon Audio - not sure if it would with the modern IC's I got put into the phono stage. If you want to buy new, then GO WHEST. Can I just say one thing though, and I do think another poster has said much the same. If you want 'dead' silent then it has to be digital. You clearly like tubes, and noise goes with the territory, unless you are buying very expesive gear. By the same token, solid state that is more 'tubey' in sound is likely to be equally costly, that said, I recall testing a phono stage made by Sugden in the UK, I did a quick review of it, and it may just do the trick for you - sweet sounding - very quiet. |
I have had several. The best was the Naim Superline but it was too expensive. So was the ASR. Their smaller one is also supposed to be good. I also had the Blue Circle cheaper modal. All of these were quiet with good quality. The Musical Fidelity is also good, heavy as a boat anchor. I have had health problems and had to downsize so I am getting a Jasmine. A friend has one and he likes it and he makes his own tube preamps. |
I can only really recommend ones that I have used, but will suggest one that I haven't too. At present I am using a Zesto Andros and it is really quiet. Really nice sound and I love that the settings can all be controlled without having to open up the box. The Zesto is more than what you want to spend though, otherwise it would be a great option. Before the Zesto I was using a Sutherland Insight (solid state). It was also very quiet. Not as musical as the Zesto, but really good and it's priced at around $1500. The next step up would be a Sutherland 20/20. I think those are around $2300. I have not listened to one, but that is probably the sweet spot in the Sutherland line. I would try one of them from a reputable dealer that has a generous return policy. Jason |
lewm
.... even simpler, you might find that re-arranging the plugs so that they all come off the same AC receptacle would permit you to go back to using 3 prongs.This is the closest to the best solution to this common problem, imo. The hum/noise is caused by a differing voltage potential in the grounds. Relying on grounds of equal voltage potential will eliminate the noise. That's a benefit of using properly installed dedicated lines. |
Another way to deal with the ground loop without resorting to cheater plugs is to use a full wave bridge rectifier installed between chassis ground and audio ground, in either your preamp or phono stage, or both. You install it such that the diodes provide the isolation between the two, but there is only a ~2V voltage drop (that of two diodes in series) between audio and earth ground, which ain't going to hurt anyone. You would need an experienced tech, unless you understand the theory. A simpler method is to use a low value resistance, like 100 ohms, to separate the two grounds, which might or might not work. Meantime, like Almarg, I don't think the danger of what you have done is so great as to cause panic. The un-grounded components are in contact with earth ground via the ICs, assuming that your amplifier's earth ground and audio ground are in continuity. OR, even simpler, you might find that re-arranging the plugs so that they all come off the same AC receptacle would permit you to go back to using 3 prongs. |
I was able to place two 3to2 adapters on all components EXCEPT the main amplifier, I think by doing this the system is now funneling the grounds down to the one outlet, and now its quiet as a mouse!!Matt, correct me if I'm wrong but I believe you are saying that you placed 3-prong to 2-prong adapters (also referred to as cheater plugs) on the AC power plugs of components, using them with the safety ground pin left unconnected, and that the reference to "two" adapters means that you put one on the power plug of the preamp and one on the power plug of the phono stage. If so, what you've done is to break a ground loop between the phono stage and the preamp, that was causing the noise. If you search past threads here dealing with the use of cheater plugs to resolve ground loop issues (which can take the form of hum or high frequency noise or both) you'll find that some people have utilized that approach as a permanent fix, while others passionately argue that it creates a completely unacceptable safety risk. The risks being fire and shock. And also the possibility that if a major fire were to start in that room, use of cheater plugs could conceivably provide your insurance company with an excuse to not pay. FWIW my opinion on the matter is that while the risks are **extremely** small, it cannot be said that they are zero. Personally, I would consider using cheater plugs to resolve ground loop problems to be a solution that is acceptable in the short term but not permanently. Good permanent solutions would include inserting a suitably chosen Jensen transformer between the phono stage and the preamp, assuming that what I said in the first paragraph above is a correct interpretation (post back if you'd like more information on model selection), or changing one of the components to something else, or in the case of a responsive manufacturer asking them if they can change the internal grounding configuration of their component to one that is less susceptible to ground loop issues. But those are just my own feelings on the matter. Others have different views in many cases, as I mentioned. And of course it's your call. Regards, -- Al |
mattmiller I was able to place two 3to2 adapters on all components EXCEPT the main amplifier, I think by doing this the system is now funneling the grounds down to the one outlet, and now its quiet as a mouse!!Do you mean that you've used adapters on all of your components other than one amplifier to defeat their AC safety grounds? If so, how do you think those disconnected grounds get "funneled" to one outlet? |
Hello everyone, After much snarling and growling and talking to different people I was able to place two 3to2 adapters on all components EXCEPT the main amplifier, I think by doing this the system is now funneling the grounds down to the one outlet, and now its quiet as a mouse!! So, I take back what I said earlier in this post about the phono preamps being noisy, it was a problem in my system. Thanks to all for posting! Really... there are too many of you too list, all of you made great points!! :-) Matt M |
Dear @mattmiller : Re-reading again it's really " funny " what is happening in your system with 3 different PS. It's almost imposible that the 3 PS were " damaged "/out of specs. I know that for every one of us is to difficult to stay in " focus "(right with your system sympthoms and only can " figure " it. If you can try to bring to your place ( from a friend or an audio distributor. ) a line preamp and make tests with looking how things goes. I give you this advise because for an unknow reason the Manley line preamp could ahs a problem with the signal coming from the Chinnok. Sounds ridiculous but you have to try it. It sounds ridiculous too but you have to test connecting the PS signal to the CD input and through the AUX one too. Other thing that could happen is that in all those PS ( almost imposible it can happen in the 3 units. ) exist extremely high/low frequency oscilations that can produce different kind of anomalies. These kind of oscilations are not easy to detect even for manufacturers. Btw, """ noise,noise,noise even terrible clipped signals! """. which kind of noise and how do you know are " clipped signals "? Regards and enjoy the music, R. |
Matt, You really ought to take one or both of your troublesome phono stages to the home of an audiophile friend or to a local dealer, and listen to them on a completely different system. That way, you may figure out that the problem lies downstream from the phono stage, which very well could be the case. Likewise, you might borrow a known good working phono stage from a friend or dealer and see how that goes in your system. That said, I have to agree with you that the fact you are having no problems with digital sources is puzzling. For a shot in the dark, you might check out what is going on with the interconnect cables you use between the phono stages and your linestage. Swap in some completely different cables, and try switching to a different pair of input jacks on your linestage; you may have a bad solder joint somewhere on the linestage side. Also, check whether said cables are passing near a source of EMI or RFI. Further, if all else fails, based on the rave review of it by Michael Fremer, which I just read on-line, you might consider the iFi iPhono2 for only $499. You can tell when Fremer REALLY likes something, and I think that is the case with this unit. Pursuant to checking out the Klyne 6LX, I did install it into my Beveridge system last night and listen to it for about 2 hours. It had been completely out of service for many months, so it took a while to "bloom", but when it did, the sound was excellent, as Raul predicted. It has the expected virtues of solid state: very low noise (actually no audible noise at all, even between tracks of an LP with stylus in groove), very good clean bass response, very good articulation of separate instruments. Plus it had virtues of good tube gear: huge sound stage, very good sense of depth, good retrieval of decay. Compared to the best tube phono I have heard on this system, there was a very teeny tiny slight bit of dry-ness. Not offensive, just different. But the trade-off was in favor of the virtues. |
