Okay...in another thread I promised to do a side-by-side evaluation of the Audiobyte HydraVox/Zap vs the Rockna Wavelight. Due to the astonishing incompetence of DHL this has been delayed. At the moment, I have a plethora of DACs here and am going to do a broader comparison.
I am going to do a compare of the Rockna Wavelight, Rockna Wavedream Signature, Audiobyte HydraVox/Zap, Chord Hugo 2, Chord Hugo TT2, Bricasti M3, Bricasti M1 Special Edition, Weiss 501 and the internal DAC card for an AVM A 5.2 Integrated amp as a baseline.
For sake of consistency, I am going to use that same AVM integrated amp driving Vivid Kaya 45s. I may branch out and do some listening on other speakers (Verdant Nightshade of Blackthorn and/or Wilson Benesch Vertexes) but want to use the Vivids for every compare as they are the fullest range speakers I have here. For sake of consistency I will use a Chord 2Go/2Yu connected via an Audioquest Diamond USB as a renderer. The only exception is the Hugo 2 which has a 2Go directly attached to it. I will use a Roon Nucleus+ as a server in all cases.
My plan is to use the same five songs on every DAC; In a Sentimental Mood from Duke Ellington and John Coltrane, Be Still My Beating Heart from Sting, Liberty from Anette Askvik, Duende from Bozzio Levin Stevens and Part 1 of Mozart String Quartet No 14 in G Major from the Alban Berg Quartet. The intent is to touch on different music types without going crazy.
I will take extensive notes on each listening session and write up a POV on the strengths of each unit. I am going to start this this Friday/Saturday and will be writing things up over the next month or so. If you have thoughts, comments or requests, I will be happy to try and accommodate. The one thing I am not going to do is make the list of songs longer as that has an exponential impact on this and make everything much harder. If and when other DACs come in on trade I may add to the list through time.
@jjss49- I am going to tempt you. There is a new Playback designs DAC coming out that is going to be a step up from the Weiss. $15K without built in renderer, $18K with what will be a Roon Ready end-point when it is finally authorized in a couple months. I am really excited about this unit as it is the natural step up from the Weiss.
@sbank Thank you for the kind words. I love that movie and if there were points available for best post, you would have earned them.
@jeffreyw I have heard several MSB DACs but the most time I have spent is with a Reference. I do have a good friend in NC with a Discrete but have not spent time with that model. The Mola Mola has not been through here either.
I am not an MSB Dealer (though I would love to be and may pursue the line at some point). Geographically, the importer and NY retailer for Mola Mola is in North Jersey. Makes no sense for him to add me.
As a result, I am adding Playback Design. See above my comment to jjss49. The natural competitor to the Discrete is the Rockna Wavedream Edition XLR. The MSB is obviously quite customizable which in upgraded form would likely land it between the Edition and Signature. The Playback is a natural competitor with the Mola Mola. It is a new unit but I expect it to be as popular as the Wavedream Signature which is a killer DAC.
The upcoming PS Audio DirectStream DAC MKII will also be an interesting DAC to look at....
All the hardware has improved from opamps, USB galvanic isolation, better grounding, better RCA outputs, better power supplies and a better output transformer...
@rsf507,compared to my previous DAC at the time a SimAudio 380DSD I found the M3 a little lean. I liked the M3 and thought it had a little more detail and soundstage, and way more bass and dynamics than the much older SimAudio, but I desired a little more fuller presentation. I really liked the SimAudio DAC when I purchased it years ago as it had a very organic musical sound that didn't make me feel like I was listening to digital.
I didn't find the M3 to be analytical or fatiguing, I just wanted a little more meat on the bones... The RME I found to be cut along the same lines as the M3 sound wise, detailed and easy to listen to, it just didn't offer the same level of detail and soundstage and was likely the least dynamic of the DACs I tried (still killer for the $$ though in my opinion). The Mystique I think gives up a little resolution and maybe soundstage to the M3, has equal or maybe better bass/dynamics (its power supplies are pretty crazy), but has that organic/musical presentation of the SimAudio taken to another level.
The couple really cool features of the M3 though which add to its value in my opinion are the quality of it analog output (which almost matched to my ears my ~ double the price preamp) and its option for a $1K Ethernet streamer. I use a Bricasti M5 with my Mojo and it sounds excellent, but it costs more than $1K :)
Thanks @ddafoefor the info. As my dealer showed me it's easier and much more cost effective (although not as much fun) to change power cords and get what you are striving for than changing dacs. Yes dacs sound a bit different but they are all sounding so good and by changing an interconnect or ac cord you can change the sound even more. Just my own experience.
I have promised a few more reviews here as some new devices have come in and one specifically is the Musical Fidelity M3s CD. This is a CD player with SPDIF, USB and TOSLINK inputs and lists for $1599. I bought it before AXPONA in 2019 for CD Transport for that show and literally had never listened to the DAC.
On In a Sentimental Mood, sparkle in the top end of the piano is great. Separation is good within the drum roll, not elite. It feels like this unit has a slight emphasis on the midrange as bass is slightly recessive and the cymbals in the right speaker are forward. Balance is different but it delivers a very musical and enjoyable performance.
In Be Still My Beating Heart, again slight absence of bass and resulting image seems short and moderately wide. Certainly wider than the Hugo 2 but with less depth in the central image. Noise floor is not as quiet.
Effects are prominent on Liberty. Not a touch of sibilance.
Duende had good, not great detail in the bass region. Treble separation was very good.
With Berg, there was a slight massing of strings which might be worse on a larger orchestral recording but it is very enjoyable.
PRaT is the signature. Extraordinary mids with a punchy mid-bass but without any excessive treble and slightly recessive bass. This may have been designed to compliment the slight brightness that one gets with MF integrated amp.
Like the Questyle, this unit is awesome for the money. If you told me it was twice the price I would not be shocked. Anyone looking for a quality DAC in the sub $2K range would be wise to consider this unit even if you never plan to open the CD tray. It will be especially nice in a system that is a touch bright at the top end or excessively bass heavy.
This unit sat in storage for almost 2 years and bluntly, I am disappointed that I haven't spent more time with it. It is striking a nice balance between detail and soundstage. Biggest issues I see are size and lack of XLRs which is not that uncommon in this price tier.
I've followed this thread, because I currently have a Chord Dave DAC and I'm looking for the next level DAC without spending $20K. I've read that the Chord Dave can be analytical and thin, but compared to the PS Audio Directstream, Bricasti M1, Jeff Rowland Aeris, and Rockna I don't hear it. I've had all of the aforementioned DAC in my system and I prefer the Dave. Based on my experience it seems DACs are like all audio components...the system/personal preference is the most significant factor determining what DAC is "best".
I currently have Bryston Mini-T speakers (with Yamaha PC2002 power amp) and was thinking of moving towards a fully Bryston system...but came across your post commenting about microdynamics.
Based on your experience, it it worth pursuing building a system around the Mini-T's if i want Microdymics? What i mean to say, is it the Bryston speakers or amplifiers that are the limiting factor for microdynamics?
The microdynamics are a huge part of what I have have been focusing on in this thread. It is the fine details. Subtleties in the way a drum roll comes together, speedy bass notes, sound effects, separation of notes in bells and piano. These little things are inherently the difference between very good and extraordinary and they do add up.
That being said, you do need to have a system capable of delivering those microdynamics to you. You need a resolving enough amplifier and speakers that are sufficiently detailed. Years ago I did a demo of a bunch of stand-mount speakers in the $1000 to $2000 range and a couple floor standers. One test track I used was Don't Give Up by Peter Gabriel off of Secret World Live. What I discovered in that session was that multiple speakers were simply not capable reproducing the fine details of things like crowd noise in certain parts of that song. It was an entirely Bryston system with a speaker switch so it wasn't the amp or DAC, the only change was the speakers. You can get the most detailed DAC in the world and if your speakers are your systems bottleneck you will not benefit.
Regarding imaging, separation of instruments and soundstage, all of these things vary wildly from dac to dac and there is no objective "this is how it should sound" benchmark to know if your DAC is doing well. The closest you can come is Q sound recordings but those are problematic in the opposite direction in that virtually any DAC and system should be able to make those sound incredible.
@fai_v I have never heard the mini-Ts and cannot speak about there ability to deliver micro-dynamics. That said, I am biased heavily against standard wood box speakers when it comes to production of fine details. My bias shows up in my own designs and the lead products I offer. My speaker cabinets are made from either Carbon Fiber or Fiberglass and the two lines I most focus on are Vivid (fiberglass) and Wilson Benesch (carbon fiber) as I understand why they are so good. It makes sense to me. I may not be best person to ask because of my bias.
That being said, Bryston hardware (amps and preamps) will not be a bottleneck in your system. It is VERY good electronics. I have not heard their DAC personally but I know it is supposed to be very good. Key is system matching. I would demo speakers you are interested in in home or on Bryston gear if you can. If not, work with someone who know the brands really well.
$4K entry - A DAC I have been waiting a year for finally arrived. The Canor DAC 2.10. When I signed on to be Canors’s distributor in the US, this DAC was promised as in development. They kept their promise with delivery was only delayed ~1 month for final tweaks. I arrived about two weeks ago.
This is only the second tube DAC we have reviewed. The much higher end Vu Jade was reviewed back in the earlier stages of this thread.
This is a Delta Sigma chip based DAC using and ESS Sabre chip. It supports MQA fully via the hardware. There are 9 filters including one to optimize MQA unfolding and a NOS filter. There is a re-clocker and an upscaler built in. It supports DSD up to 512K. It is fully balanced. What it lacks is a preamp stage. There is no volume control and no analog inputs. The output stage uses four 6922s.
In all cases, testing was conducted with upsampling and re-clocking on. Upsampling made a small but obvious difference. In regard to re-clocking, via synchronous connections (SPDIF) I heard no difference. Via USB from the Chord streamer I heard a small but noticeable difference. I did test from my laptop direct and the re-clocking made a noticeable difference. Clocking quality matters. @antigrunge2I agree.
Performance wise, this DAC fits in the ~$5K DAC range. Although it is at the low end of the price range at $4K, it’s performance is comfortably in line with the Wavelight, HydraVox, TT2 and M3. The absence of a preamp and utilization of off-the-shelf DAC Chips explains the high level of performance at a more modest price.
The DAC shipped with 48 hours of burn-in on it and I immediately pushed it to get an extra 150 hours. The unit takes a good 30-40 minutes to completely warm up. It sounds a hair flat until it is completely warm like most tube units.
This is the warmest DAC in the price range that we tested. I did a direct compare to the Wavelight to be certain. The Wavelight is a hair more forward. Unlike the Wavelight, the output is a bit more balanced without the slight emphasis on bass that we get with that unit. Different filters offer different sound profiles but even the MQA and NOS filters leave this DAC a hair warmer than the Wavelight.
The sound is exactly what you would expect from a tube DAC and a DAC leveraging and ESS Chip. The soundstage is wide and deep. Detail and separation are brilliant. My initial test used RCAs but since the unit is fully balanced, I did hunt down a pair of XLRs (all of my AQ and Clarus cables are on loan). This had a noticeable impact on the noise floor and the DAC was slightly quieter with XLRs than with RCAs.
Regarding our test songs, In a Sentimental Mood sounded big and engaging. There is sparkle at the top end of the piano but less than it’s SS competitors. Separation in the drum roll is brilliant and wonderful air around the cymbals.
Be still my beating heart sounded huge as expected. Sounstage extends well beyond the outside of the speakers and completely immersed me. No sibilance in Sting’s voice and no glare.
Liberty is spectacular. Blacks are Black. Bass is not overly boomy. Effects are where they should be. Anette Askvik’s voice is in your face the way it should be with no glare.
Instrument separation at the beginning of Duende is superb rivaling the Audiobyte or Chord in terms of clarity. Instrument separation in Berg was superb with no glare from the strings though the intimacy of the chamber is lost given the scale of the soundstage.
The net result is that if someone is looking for a detailed DAC with good soundstage on the warmer side of the audio spectrum and they don’t need a preamp stage, this DAC should be a serious contender. In my system and to my taste, this is a hair warm. A final test outside of the scope of this was to swap in the less warm Hegel H590 (vs AVM A5.2) and I found the tonal balance more to my liking with a touch more sparkle.
I take that back, there have been two exceptions. Obviously I did not use ICs with the internal DAC on the integrated amp and the Vu Jade did not have a USB in so we used a Jorma Digital Coax in that test.
Two new entries. The first is an update on the Audiobyte HydraVox with the addition of the HUB.
One of the very first units we tested was the Audiobyte. For many months people have been waiting on the addition of the HUB. This completes the stack from Audiobyte and I have to say that it is a noticeable improvement.
The first thing I had to do was get the system back to where it was which included swapping in different speaker cables, USB cable and ICs. I have largely moved from AQ to Clarus Crimson for every day listening. I also fired up with Nucleus+ and powered down the Antipodes K50.
To refresh my memory, I started off with the 5 tracks excluding the HUB through the Chord 2Go/2Yu and then through the HUB. I checked my notes and my opinion hasn't really changed of the Vox/Zap as it was originally setup. Quite neutral with a massive soundstage. It lacked absolute depth and wasn't as stable as some of its competitors.
The HUB corrected this. Still not as deep as the TT2, but the central image became deeper and more stable. Particularly in In a Sentimental Mood in terms of instrument and I felt like voices might shift a bit without the Hub, Sting's voice was rock solid. No sibilance. Detail is wonderful.
My Weiss is currently out on world tour. It is visiting four or five customers. I am looking forward to its returns as I feel like this complete stack is approaching what you get with the Weiss. It will be a very interesting side by side compare in a few weeks.
I am not saying that the Hub moves this up a full price point and it is completely competitive in the $10K range. I need to do that testing before I can confirm but it is much closer than it was without the HUB.
These are still scarce. There are a few production runs scheduled for the rest of the year with the next likely in July. It definitely seems like a worthwhile upgrade but will require a little patience still.
The second is a comparable evaluation of the Playback Designs Edelweiss.
First thing I did was go back and do a careful read of the notes on the Wavedream Signature which is my benchmark in terms of soundstage.
Everything about this suggests that they are extremely comparable. Little tidbits like Saxophone is coming from ~8' to left of left speaker on In a Sentimental Mood. So much detail in Be Still My Beating Heart it is almost overwhelming in terms of scale and detail. Incredible air around cymbals, etc...
What strikes me as different is there is a...sweetness to the midrange and treble that comes through with the Playback that I am not sure I have heard with another DAC. The top end is incredible. Detail is rivaled only by the Wavedream. But the midrange stands out and I am almost struggling to describe the presentation. I have yet to hear a moment of glare. The image is in my face, but in a good way. Never any sibilance.
It may have something to do with the way the soundstage comes together. The central image is deep and stable, like a Chord Dave. The width of the image is huge, but having just listened to the Audiobyte, was about the size of the Audiobyte which means absolute scale is probably smaller than that of the Wavedream Signature. This should be comparable in terms of scale with the Bricasti M1 SE.
As we talk about compromise, the Wavedream Signature lacks the absolute depth of stage of something like the Dave while delivering a much broader soundstage that is almost perfectly neutral yet incredibly detailed. Listening to Duende, I am hearing details that I have only heard on the Rockna and a stabitlity and accuracy I have only heard on the Rockna. There are moments in this song that a brash and in your face and may deliver a little glare with certain DACs. That is completely gone with this unit.
This has incredible depth, incredible detail yet lacks the absolute scale of the Rockna. Tonally, it is not as perfectly neutral as the Rockna, but in a good way. It does feel a touch more musical. If your system is a touch sterile, this can add musicality but it can't overwhelm a system that is a little too cold.
Looking forward, I am hoping to get back to testing some headphones and I may have a Jadis JS1 MKV in for demo here in the not too distant future.
@verdantaudioThanks for the thoughts on all these wonderful DACs. The DAC journey is indeed very exciting for many of us as we get out to hunt the ones that meets our taste. There are so many manufacturers these days that its impossible to audition each of them and hence these threads become critical comparison points. I am looking forward to it.
By any chance you have been able to compare between the PD Edelweiss (MPD6) to its bigger brother MPD8 ? I am also interested in knowing your thoughts between the Weiss vs PD in general ?
I have not had a chance to compare The Edelweiss to the Dream DAC. The guys at Playback and the US distributor may be the only ones who have at this point.
My US distributor said that he found the Edelweiss DAC alone (MPD-6) approached the sound quality of the MPS-8 using a streamX module.
This tells me that tonally they are very similar but the soundstage will be bigger and deeper with the 8. I am sure it might do even better with strings and other ultra complex music. But that is based on conversations with distributor rather than direct experience.
I do have a basically new (~500 hours on it) Dream DAC from a customer coming in on trade. I might be able to demo that unit here but that is TBD.
I want to get the Weiss back but based on notes and my direct memory, the Playback is more detailed and slightly sweeter sounding. It is neutral to a hair warm while the Weiss is neutral to a hair cool. The Playback soundstage is wider, deeper and more stable but this really only shows up on songs like Be Still my Bestinng Heart and Liberty that are really massive sounding.
The Jadis JS1 MKV is here and it is stunning. This is a two chassis unit with an external power supply. The external supply is slit into two parts, one for analog circuits and the other for digital circuits.
The unit uses AK4497 DAC chip and uses 2 ECC82, 2 ECC88, 1 EL84 and 1 EF86 tube. The first thing you note is that this DAC is not tubey. It is not warm and gooey. This is a reference level unit that is quite competitive with the Rockna and Playback. It does not have a preamp stage, no streaming or rendering and no MQA support. DSD is native to 256 over USB.
The detail is incredible. The tiniest a hair below the Wavedream Signature and Edelweiss, it did not show up in the five song test. As a matter of curiosity, I listened to a 24/192k version of Miles Davis's Kind of Blue and the micro detail in the plucking of the string bass in the opening is not quite as precise as it is in the Playback but short of that, it is stunning. On this same test the Jadis is slightly clearer than the Weiss.
On In a Sentimental Mood, drum rolls are crisp and there is good separation. What is shocking is the soundstage. The image is as deep as the Playback. The instrument separation is as good and the image is rock solid in terms of stability. The width of the image is absolutely off the charts. It is every bit as big as the Rockna image. Without the Signature here I can tell if it is bigger.
The soundstage on Be Still My Beating Heart is Massive. The image is deep and wide. The bells are clear. Sting's voice lacks sibilance. It is just enjoyable. On Liberty, effects are coming from where they should. The image is large. Here voice is not bright. It is in your face where it should be without any glare.
On Duende, instruments are true. Separation between notes is flawless. There is no distortion in the opening bass notes. The image holds together as the song gets more complex and there is no localization at the speakers.
There is no massing of strings on the Berg piece. It sounds big though and the intimacy of a quartet is lost a bit. This is unsurprising and very simply a compromise that one must make. Full orchestral pieces sound right.
What doesn't come across in the above notes is that like the Playback, there is this sense of rightness and musicality that makes you forget that you are listening to a system and not just listening to music. This is a challenge while evaluating equipment and the temptation is to simply deviate from the test. I literally loaded four other songs while I was doing this because I wanted to hear them.
The unit, despite being tube based, is slightly more bright/forward than the fully broken in Playback. Is this the best DAC I have ever had in my system....maybe. It is tight between the Rockna, Playback and Jadis. If you are looking for a no compromise unit, this should be on your list.
Based on this highly impressive listening experience with the Jadis JS1 MKV I'd love to hear it in comparison to the Aries Cerat Helene DAC. No doubt that one could not go wrong with either. Thanks for posting @verdantaudio.
I would love to get an Aries Cerat in. I think that would be a super interesting comparison between it and the Jadis. Not likely to happen immediately but a brand I would be happy to carry.
interesting and fun seeing reading the stereophile review on the jadis by alex h... i feel the same way about my audio note dac 4.1 -- no doubt that well executed vacuum tube regulation, rectification, output does add some special sauce...
I’ve owned the top Rockna Dac and also the Mola Mola Tambacqui. They are very good (I would not hesitate to own the Tambacqui again as it’s an extremely pure sounding Dac for solid state). However they are handily beaten by Aries Cerat. My buddy has the AC Kassandra which is incredible…
Your impressions of the Jadis confirm what I have believed for a long time, which is not to pre-judge a dac’s sound from the design. People are constantly saying they want a resistor ladder or an fpga and how “off the shelf” chips are inferior. The Jadis, as well as Audio Note and many others prove there is much more to a dac than whether it uses a chip or not.
@jjss49No question a well executed tube based output stage can be extraordinary. When reviews are available I try to avoid reading them till after I form my own opinion and see if I agree.
The secondary element that I think helps in a BIG way is the outboard power supply. And I am not sure it has to be outboard but having an enhanced power supply makes a huge difference. Yesterday I did some testing with a few Chord devices and some external Sean Jacobs power supplies and the differences were noteworthy.
@sutts I am really intrigued by Aries Cerat. I would love to get one in on demo for a stretch.
@chayroI could not agree with you more. Chip vs. FPGA vs. R2R biases are driven by perceptions that have nothing to do with what they are capable of. If you compare the Playback (FPGA), Jadis (Chip) and Rockna (R2R), most assumptions are literally turned on their heads with these three devices.
A belief that off the shelf chips are inferior is literal madness to me. You have a team of engineers working to produce a chip. R2R is driven by QC and what you spend on the resistor ladder (why MSB and Rockna are so good) vs FPGA where you probably have one guy designing the chip. Just fine when that person is Andreas Koch, Nicloae Jitaru or Rob Watts, but I would not have faith that any FPGA delta sigma will perform as well as any chip based delta sigma without knowing who the designer is.
The real issue with off the shelf chips is the perception that "newer is always better" so when a new chip comes out, a DAC is perceived as inferior if it doesn't have that latest, greatest chip. R2R DACs and FPGA DACs are immune to this due to the lack of simple comparability.
@verdantaudioA belief that off the shelf chips are inferior is literal madness to me. You have a team of engineers working to produce a chip. R2R is driven by QC and what you spend on the resistor ladder (why MSB and Rockna are so good) vs FPGA where you probably have one guy designing the chip. Just fine when that person is Andreas Koch, Nicloae Jitaru or Rob Watts, but I would not have faith that any FPGA delta sigma will perform as well as any chip based delta sigma without knowing who the designer is.
The real issue with off the shelf chips is the perception that "newer is always better" so when a new chip comes out, a DAC is perceived as inferior if it doesn't have that latest, greatest chip. R2R DACs and FPGA DACs are immune to this due to the lack of simple comparability.
So much truth written there. You and @chayro are spot on. too much obsession with chips vs R2R or what chipset is utilized. I do believe that the execution of the
1 Analog output stage layout and quality
2 I/V conversion
3 Power supply quality and robustness.
In my opinion these 3 areas very likely influence the sound quality of a DAC more profoundly than chipset selection.
+1 @verdantaudio- spot on and one of the best thought provoking posts on digital I have read on this forum… An Accuphase dealer I know said the new $25k Dac 1000 is incredible, and low and behold I believe the architecture is based around an ESS Sabre 9038 chipset- this adds further credence to your assertion. @Charles- thoughtful comments as always from a fellow Coincident speaker guy :-)
OTOH- I can totally understand how companies have to play to the market. Even Esoteric went to an FPGA. The customers appear to like the newer releases, but I wouldn’t be surprised the sonic differences were due to something other than the change from chips to fpga.
@verdantaudio- you should try and get some Aries Cerat product at some point. Build quality is insane. Even the Helene Dac had a fluidity that my previous Rockna and Tambaqui dacs couldn’t match. The Kassandra is a completely different level after that. I have local audio friends that have full AC systems and it is really amazing gear…
Do you know whether Playback Designs will soon be coming out with a Merlot replacement dac for the Sonoma series, now that the Merlot is discontinued but the other pieces in the series apparently are not?
@sutts AC is a brand that will get added. I like Worldwide and have a good relationship with Robert so it is a brand I was naturally considering and will look at seriously as the year progresses. I would be shocked if I am not a dealer for AC at this time next year.
@kren0006 I have asked this and my understanding is that there is no timeline for replacement of the Merlot. The priority was getting the MPD-6 to market as a replacement for the MPD-5. I also recently inquired about a Syrah and am not sure I can even get one of those.
I have an AC Helene on order; I should have it by the end of June, I hope!! I will report on the sound quality after the break-in. The problem is that all my components are brand new and need to burn in (Luxman 590AXII and Kef Reference 1 Metas). I have not picked out a streamer yet, and my head is spinning; a lot of choices out there. Any insight would be great!!
@verdantaudio- in light of your opinion about chips v ladder v fpga dacs, I think it you would be doing the audiophile community a favor if you posted a separate thread about your findings based on comparing a large number of dacs, some of which you sell (gasp) and some you don’t. The myth of the resistor ladder superiority to the chip has become so prevalent as to go unchallenged. How many threads have you seen “looking for a resistor ladder dac” because of the assumption that it sounds less digital? I think you would be doing people a favor in helping them buy based on sound as opposed to design. Thanks
Also, as an aside, I fully agree with the above posts mentioning the importance of the power supply to the sound. In my Naim days, I remember adding the optional 5k power supply to my 5k CD player and it transformed the sound to a degree I could not believe. And it was only the power supply. Nothing else changed. I have a sneaking suspicion that the Modwright mods that are so highly regarded owe their sound in large part to that hefty outboard power supply he adds. OCD Mike’s video about the Playback dac shows a monsterous power supply in there, resembling that of a power amp.
Verdant, if you look at Michael Fremer's current "Associated Equipment" list, e.g. in his review of the Gryphon Commander Preamp, you will see he is using a SW1X LPUIII in his rotation of phono pre's. That company makes a model of DAC called the DACIII Balanced Classic. Getting your hands on one would be difficult. Too bad though.
vs FPGA where you probably have one guy designing the chip. Just fine when that person is Andreas Koch, Nicloae Jitaru or Rob Watts, but I would not have faith that any FPGA delta sigma will perform as well as any chip based delta sigma without knowing who the designer is.
I would add Ed Meitner to that list too :) I just picked up a MA3 DAC that uses his MDAC2 converters. I'm actively comparing it to my Mojo Audio DAC which couldn't be much different under the hood but so far I would say they sound more similar than different. What I really like about the Mojo's sound is pretty much present with the MA3. There are some differences and that is what I need to figure out to decide if the MA3 will replace my Mojo long term, but overall I have two DACs that sound really really good to my ears, and they don't share very much design or implementation details...
Next DAC on the agenda is the Playback MPD-8 Dream which should arrive next week. I have a used unit coming in and will spend a little time with it before we find it a forever home. PM me if you are interested in acquiring it.
@jeffreywthe best match with AC is supposed to be Pink Faun. That DAC likes being fed from a server with a great clock. I might also look at Antipodes. What software do you plan to run? BTW...I will admit, I am not a huge fan of streamers. I very much prefer server and player as I feel it does a better job of dealing with a volatile internet and not introducing noise at the critical rendering stage.
@chayroI agree and have been trying to compose a post that I think is succinct, informative an uncontroversial without blathering.
@ddafoeI hear amazing things about Meitner/EMM products. I have not heard one in person yet. It is a brand I am exploring adding.
@fsonicsmithI just found out that my local rep for Clarus cables is also the rep for Gryphon. Unfortunately that is a Brick and Mortar brand only and doesn't fit with my business model. Love the products though.
@fsonicsmith I just found out that my local rep for Clarus cables is also the rep for Gryphon. Unfortunately that is a Brick and Mortar brand only and doesn’t fit with my business model. Love the products though.
I think you mis-read my comment. Quite understandable re-reading my post :-) I was suggesting a trial of the SW1X DACIII Balanced Classic. SW1X is the brand name. Based in England but with two US distributors. The "Balanced" does not refer to circuit topology per se. As I understand it, the balanced portion of the design involves an extremely robust output section built much like a power amp. I have owned mine for about a year and half. I ought to know more about it and back when I ordered it and waited six months for it I was more familiar with the details of the design but since then I just listen to music with it. Mine gets signal from an Aurender W20 with a custom built S/PDIF from Analysis Plus built with their Silver Apex wire. Music played through it sounds very much like my vinyl playback utilizing a modded Garrard 301 with Classic HiFi brass bearing https://www.classichifi-shop.co.uk/ with the Dobbins platter and Reed 3P, and Lyra Etna Lamda.
So, as mentioned previously, the MPD-8 Dream DAC from Playback arrived and is now fully tested. This took some effort as I have an amazing opportunity to listen to the flagship integrated amp from AVM and I just received my Inakustik sales samples which were incorporated into the system.
That said, for the test, we rolled back to the ACM A5.2 integrated, Audioquest Cables, etc...
In the context of this test, the Dream is stunningly good. There is sparkle in the piano in In a Sentimental Mood. The drum rolls show off incredible separation and the saxophone is coming about 6' to the left of the left speaker.
In Be Still My Beating Heart, separation of all the instruments is amazing. There is no sibilance at all in Stings voice and when you hear beats drop, the noise floor is incredibly low. The absolute soundstage is larger than the Edelweiss. Very similar in scale to the Jadis JS1 MKV but more detailed. Might be a hair less dynamic. Edges are smoother and it is a cleaner, more analog sound.
In Liberty, her voice is centered and stable. No sibilance and the effects come from where you would expect at this point having heard this song seemingly millions of times. Tonally similar to the Jadis, slightly more forward than the Edelweiss. Slightly less forward than the Rockna based on memory.
In Duende, this is another high. What I thought was incredibly clean lacking digital artifacts in the opening hit a new high. The opening bass solo sounded more natural than on the Edelweiss or Jadis. I explicitly went back and listened to the first minute of this song on all three back to back to back to make sure I was not hallucinating. It really is smoother.
The Berg piece is amazing. Scale is off for chamber but that is what I have come to expect from these more expansive sounding DACs. No massing of strings. No glare. It is smooth and sweet and glorious.
What is amazing to me is that we have now risen to a level where I would expect all DACs to be stunningly good and we are still finding noteworthy audible differences that make system matching critically important. This is an incredibly smooth, analog sounding DAC yet there is a level of microdetail that is astonishing and usually accomplished via making the unit brighter.
Parting with this MPD-8 when someone buys it is going to be a sad day. It is wonderful and I am going to enjoy it thoroughly while it is hear.
@verdantaudiothanks for this great thread. I read every page! I recently posted about moving from separate streamer/power supply/DAC to one unit and the Bricasti M3 came up there too. So I’ll be trying that plus a Meitner MA3 and possibly and t+a MP2000RII.
I did my own small DAC shootout with several under $3k dacs, so I guess it’s time to start trying the $5k-$10k range.
There are a number of enthusiastic owners over on AudioCircle.
Yes, but to the best of my knowledge the DAC III Balanced is the sweet spot for performance vs. price and is in the same price range of many of the DAC's that Verdant has listened to. The price of the DAC III B is in the area of 12K in stock form without the various upgrades Slawa of SW1X offers. I started with a custom built DAC II Special and then had many exchanges with Slawa about his opinions as to his DAC's and where the performance curve begins to flatten out.
@Verdantaudio such a good topic , I’d just like to mention I was at Robert of Worldwide home and was treated to a brief listening session of Aries Cerat tube mono block amplifiers and preamplifier, Cerat Aries dac with the Pink Faun server all near suitcase size components .
Roberts pick of speakers were yet to be delivered however what he had at that time was pretty impressive, Months have pass and I still think about what I experienced.
@kraysounds like you are looking for a neutral to warm DAC. I would definitely check out the Bricasti M1. It is a better comparison vs the Meitner.
@twoleftearsi checked out those DACs. Appears to be an interesting option. Will dig further
@in_shorei recently picked up inakustik at Robert’s advice. He definitely has a good ear. I was in his room at AXPONA. The Aries Cerat gear was awesome.
I have been following your post, My friend and I have Dac's that you are interested in hearing. Maybe one day we can bring them over for a listen. I have a Mola Mola Tambaqui and my friend has an Aries Cerat Kassandra II dac.
@snoprowe are in process of moving so I am experiencing a touch of upheaval at the moment, but YES! Those are two DACs I very much want to hear. PM Me and we can arrange something in August.
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