DAC Shootout Starts This Weekend

You guys are all too nice.  Thank you.  

@f208frank Agree 100%. They sound amazing with the Canor stuff.

@verdantaudio - Thank you this thread. I’d sent you a note regarding the Soul Note Dac 2 which you kindly responded to. Unfortunately, I was not able to respond via the thread so wanted to thank you here! 

I have listened to Verdant Audio's Wilson Benesch Discovery3 Zero Speakers; they are amazing.

I still think about them from time to time.

@azwill I used the Tambaqui with a preamp. About 2 years ago Vivid changed distributors and went to GTT Audio who happens to be the Mola Mola distributor. They offered to keep me on but after reviewing the dealer agreement I declined because I would violate it. They prefer people to sell in a specific territory and I live 1 town over from GTT who sells direct. Just not a fit.

This forced me to alter my reference system and I recalibrated my testing. The current system is as follows excluding DAC.

Canor Hyperion P1 Preamp

Canor Virtus M1 Mono Blocks

Wilson Benesch Discovery3 Zero Speakers

Antipodes Oladra Server

Inakkustik 4004 speaker cables.

Clarus Crimson XLRs

Puritan PSM1512 Conditioner

Puritan Ultimate XX PCs except for Preamp which is an Inakustik 2404

i specify any deviations from this setup when I write something up.

I have appreciated your impressions and evaluations on this thread.  It was not clear to me if you utilized the Tambaqui with a preamp or direct.   I have the Mola Mola Makua preamp with DAC (Tambaqui card).  I have read that several Tambaqui owners have preferred preamp in their systems over Tambaqui direct.  The Makua DAC does not have an I2S output as does the stand alone Tambaqui, and I have not listened to the stand alone Tambaqui.   I have AES/EBU from my Antipodes K50 G4 to the Makua as well as RJ45 ethernet.   I have another unit taking USB from the K50 G4, but have been using USB output from Lumin X1 to the Makua.   While I enjoy all the inputs to the Makua, I favor the USB slightly over the AES/EBU and both over ethernet, but far too many variables in my system, including player hardware, player software, and cabling manufactures and models to generalize for others.   Of note, I also use Daedalus DID isolation devices under my Makua rather than the default support rails.  

Thank you again for the significant time you have invested in these comparisons.

Recently, I received a Mola Mola Tambaqui in on trade. This is a unit I have really wanted to spend some time with given the raves and I have a great stable of products in to do some comparisons. Right as this arrived, I became a Linn dealer and the Klimax DSM arrived and I also picked up an older Selekt DSM with Katalyst DAC and the new Utopik PSU.

I had tested all of the inputs on the Mola Mola via my Oladra to ensure everything was working. I will admit, I found the setup particularly annoying since there is no easy way to switch between inputs. You have to download the app, etc... That said, this is a problem for me testing a used item but would not be an issue for a typical end user.

I was doing my listening test the same day the Linn Selekt DSM arrived and couldn’t help but listen to it. Immediately I was struck but the similarity in sound between the two units. The Katalyst is dryer than Organik and quite detailed. I tweaked my setup and decided to do a very close AB comparison with the units occupying adjacent XLR inputs in my preamp.

Regarding connections, I did deviate. After testing the different Mola Mola inputs I was torn between AES and I2S out of the Oladra. I opted for I2S via a Pink Faun I2S cable. The best input on the Linn is the on-board streamer and I used an Audioquest Vodka ethernet between server and DSM.

The Mola Mola is great. I completely understand why people love it. On Duke Ellington/John Coltrane the device has great top end sparkle on the piano. Drum rolls have great separation and are distinct.

Be Still My Beating Heart from sting Sounds huge. No sibilance in Sting’s voice, bells are clear, noise floor is very low.

In Liberty, effects are placed correcctly. Her voice is not sibilant though maybe a hair brighter than I prefer but clarity is excellent and again, the noise floor is low.

In Duende, the bass solo is clear and precise. No digital artifacts show up and it is smooth and clear. Great air around the strings. Drums are crisp with great decay, cymbals are bright (in a good way) with great air.

The Berg piece had great instrumental separation. No sibilance and scale was a bit off and lacked the intimacy of the Chord Dave or Linn Klimax but this is a very common issue and a tiny issue that is common to DACs that are more expensive.

I obviously ran the same test with the Selekt DSM w/ Katalyst and I was right, they are very similar tonally and in the way they present. That said, everything was just a hair off compared to the Tambaqui. the image was slightly congested for lack of a better term. Image was slightly less appealing though separation was as good. I literally had no idea what this thing cost yet and discovered it is ~$3K less expensive. My feeling was it is a fair compromise to save a little bit of money and was less dissapointed.

Then I decided to put on Space Optimization to evaluate the difference. Suddenly the entire image shifted and the whole experience is much more immersive. I suspect the congestion that I was hearing was smearing and timing issues with bass response in my room.

I have absorption panels, bass traps, diffusers and my speakers 5’ into the room and it measures extremely well. My subwoofer is a Perlisten with an advanced DSP that integrates into my system easily and quite well. The introduction of Space Op took this to a completely different level.

If you have ever spent time setting up a subwoofer making micro adjustments to settings, you know the moment when timing becomes perfect. It is shocking in the sudden increase in clarity and sense of rightness to what you are hearing. That is what happened with Space Op being turned on. There was a rightness and clarity to what I was hearing that I have to spend hours to get just right in terms of micro adjustments to placement, toeing and rake angle of your speakers along with micro adjustments to timing with your subwoofer.

Suddenly the Selekt became smoother and more coherent. I stopped feeling like I was observing the image in front of me with the mola mola or Linn without room correction and it seemed like I was suddenly immersed into the music and it enveloped me and I feel like the Selekt leap frogged the Mola Mola.

This had me itchy to test more. I cleared a couple shelves and inserted the Playback Designs MPD 6 and the Rockna Wavedream Signature XLR. My system was setup around Playback DACs and the Playback delivered its trademark musicality and the holographic image I am used to and it was a clear step up from both, albeit small. The Rockna timing was a hair off but the fine microdetails stand out and for me, deliver a fascinating feeling that almost feels like it is touch the edges of your ears.

I have been using a sixth track recently for demos. Michael Jackson, Human Nature off of Thriller. This is a very immersive track with these extremely quiet but detailed bells that appear in that air around you. All four DACs did a fine job of presenting an immersive and holographic experience. The Tambaqui and Rockna were a hair off.

What this tells me, is that the way these DACs present requires micro tuning of your system to get it just right. I believe the Tambaqui could be as good as these others but I am not prepared to go through the effort to tweak my system to get the most out of it for a used item I don’t carry.

More than anything, what stands out is the benefits of Room Correction as it makes it easy to get a basically perfect setup in less than perfect conditions. Most DAC manufacturers lack the scale of Linn so few will have the resources to develop their own room correction. I wonder if more manufactures won’t begin licensing things like DIRAC Live or the BACCH system to incorporate into their devices to bring them the next level.

@tonnesen I didn't have any new news for a long stretch.  I had a lot of gear in on trade I was underwhelmed by and this thread is not about criticizing gear I don't like.  I tried writing up a few and just wasn't happy with the posts and am focused on only sharing constructive points of view.  

I am very excited about Accustic Arts joining the On a Higher Note family.  I recently picked up Moonriver and Artesania from Philip and am serious about Accustic Arts.  The CD players look amazing aesthetically and from a spec perspective.  

@verdantaudio 

It is nice to see you posting on this thread again!

I'm a big fan of Accustic Arts. Their CD-Player 1 was my primary source for 20 years (until I got the MPS-8 and MPS-X from you) and I have always been interested in hearing their newer products.  Their components are beautifully built and my CDP-1 has been flawless, so I think they are worth checking out. 

@yyzsantabarbara   This is helpful.  I will pick up a device and see how it works when my new Klimax DSM arrives vs. ethernet straight from the wall and from the ethernet direct out from my Oladra.  My customer did not want to wait for a device to be built and since mine was very new...

@verdantaudio I have 3 streamers that do fibre and I use 3 network switches ranging in price from $200, $75, $49. They all seem to sound the same to me.

What I do is use the Sonore SPF connections since it makes compatibility easy.

https://www.smallgreencomputer.com/collections/accessories

Get 2 of the SFP’s and a cable. Should be about $75 total. The cable can be 100's of feet long.

I use these switches to convert from RJ45 to Fibre. I find the special converters are flakey while the switches have not failed (knock on wood).

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0D8Y4RWYS?ref_=ppx_hzsearch_conn_dt_b_fed_asin_title_1&th=1

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08PJPX47D?ref_=ppx_hzsearch_conn_dt_b_fed_asin_title_2&th=1

I have the older version of this (an excellent switch but I use all the connections in my office setup),

https://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-EdgeSwitch-Managed-Gigabit-ES-8-150W/dp/B01LHU98EK/ref=sr_1_3?crid=21URGMYS0TF7X&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.t9yPxjezTJNebqIMV0OTyfv0a8E4BYw40hbPL46ySPO8-V9shRgQxDZxQ5s40BKja2bpjY9m_CITWDkm4T4FCJXE-WI-pPg3CgDbr5VmdxjjW3bPNgH5dxtZrQEIpmuzGNajBZtMUt6sQ83ydZQwO8ZHDc1v9klwB-oGLDrPyDQ9CyrCqg9VZMIW9uZdlKSkRG-O--iXTHVdr1B29X-qCUDguk-B7Ri4zKm6Prdq652VK0pejb_kSHsczkIBpJ5kNvQo9yunlHNtoPVYFeEtx2fQQ9qDNnx_YBl62Y_IrBZv1eLoa0H-5kb74A43WTodZUSOl52yCJ67qgzYAUu7PbHtzUxUKYMIvajlUXqnByM.772y_keo9UxvKWWTUtLujeacVpSDFhlJjpHXPGwyWuQ&dib_tag=se&keywords=ubiquiti+switch&qid=1740341851&s=electronics&sprefix=Ubiquiti%2Celectronics%2C204&sr=1-3

@yyzsantabarbara I am 99% certain you are correct that it has a fiber ethernet input like the Lumin.  I have not tested that as I don’t have a device to convert my signal to fiber and one I bought failed within two weeks.  If you have a suggestion I am open.

There is definitely something with an all Linn system.  They lent me the 360 Active speakers and the Exakt system is pretty cool tech.  That whole system with the Klimax is obscenely good.  It is $136,500 but is legitimately competitive in terms of quality at that level and has a higher WAF factor than anything I can put together in that price range with other gear.  My wife literally said I could put it in the living room assuming the line justifies what is a VERY chunky spend, even for a dealer. 
 

I also have since built my Selekt LP12 and with their cartridge into a modestly price phono (Uphorik is like $3450) and it is beating much more expensive setups.  The phono is excellent but doesn’t stand out as much with the Ortofon and Dynavector cartridges I have.  I also have the Moonriver 505 ($6k) and the Linn Kendo into Linn Uphorik beats Linn Kendo into Moonriver.  My Dynavector and Ortofon sound better through the Moonriver.  Synergy is magical when it saves money.  
 

More than anything, this is a brand that if you choose to buy it, plan on staying with it for a long time.  This is not a good product for equipment rollers. 

I think the Linn supports fibre optic like the Lumin X1. If so, have you tried that input? I have heard this unit before in an all-Linn system. Maybe I am wrong about the fibre since I do not see it listed.
Next-generation Klimax DSM | Network Music Players | Linn USA

I think for a non-technical person having the DSP on the hardware (Space Optimization) is a simple choice than what I use, which is Convolution filters running on my ROON Core. Though I have turned this off in my current setups since the rooms have changed.

First unit to write up is the Linn Klimax DSM. This is a $45.5K device leveraging Linn’s first ever FPGA DAC called the Organik, has Linn’s on-board streamer/roon endpoint and and uses their proprietary Space Optimization system.

Linn reached out to me last year as they were looking to add a dealer in NJ which was a gap in their territory. I thought this was odd as I am not a big analog retailer and I show products from my home. Given the LP12s reputation and the fact that most big companies (McIntosh, Dynaudio, etc...) will not entertain dealers without a brick and mortar location.

They shared that they believed their digital products were competitive with anything in the market and were far more concerned with who was the dealer and how they engaged their customers rather then where they displayed product. We vetted the line, placed an opening order and a LOT of boxes and tools arrived with an on-boarding in terms of training, technical support via brand ambassador AND a planned ambassador visit made me wonder what I was getting myself into.

It is clear that Linn is not a small, boutique manufacturer. Linn is a large technology company that reinvests heavily into their products and provide 21st century tech support. It is a very different experience dealing with a company like Linn vs most of the other manufacturers I deal with.

One box was the Klimax DSM and there were like 9 boxes of tools and parts for the Selekt LP12 and tools to set it up. I did not touch any of the analog stuff and set time with the ambassador team to execute the build together. Alternatively, the Klimas DSM was out of the box and playing within 15 minutes. Embarrassingly, 10 of those minutes were spent trying to figure out how to power on the unit. The mains switch is on the underside of the unit toward the front.

This unit is Linns ultimate expression. It is milled from a solid billet of aircraft grade aluminum. Placement is optimized to minimize cross talk and interference and te parts used are the best available that they can fit in the box.

Through my reference preamp (CANOR Hyperion P1) and power amps (CANOR Virtus M1) into my Wilson Benesch Discovery 3Zeros the sound was immediately excellent. My Oladra was out on loan so I was running straight into a range extender via ethernet.

Over the next hour or so I played with configuration and landed on top performance of Klimas DSM direct into my power amps. This is a first. I have not had a DAC or even DAC & Pre in that performs as well as my Hyperion or other preamps I have had in like the VAC Master and ARC Ref 6 SE.

Performance was good and I ran all my tests and walked away thinking nice but not sure it is worth $45.5K. Then I set up space optimization. This is not an easy thing to setup and I was starting to understand Linn’s thinking about who was the dealer rather than the physical location and it began making sense.

Space Optimization is a system that requires you to physically measure your room, map speaker placement and even defined the materials in the walls, etc... This was not brutal in my space but can be.  I have a simple 14 x 20 room with speakers in pretty optimal location. I processed the Space Optimization quickly and incompletely and performance leaped forward. I ordered a digital laser measurer and went through my SO trainings. I put together a precise model and performance leaped forward so much that I needed to rethink my evaluation.

Normally I talk about DACs in terms of detail, image width, height, depth and stability. Once SO was completed, the listening experience was so immersive that I was struggling to discern depth vs width. The image surrounds you almost like the BACCH SP. There are several variables that allow you to fine tune for decay vs punch and a myriad of other factors. I was able to dial this in to my taste perfectly.

I then chose to run myu test tracks for this post. First up, John Coltrane and Duke Ellington’s in a Sentimental Mood. Top and sparkle and air around Duke Ellignton’s piano is stunning. The drum rolls are detailed and precise. No sibilance in the brass at all but the sound was still forward enough to not be called laid back and extremely immersive.

Be Sill My Beating Heart from Sting. Incredibly immersive. The image surrounds you and it was literally impossible to judge image width as it feels like you are sitting in the middle of the studio. No sibilance from stings voice. Excellent separation and structure within the image and the noise floor was absurdly low.

Liberty from Anette Askvik sounded amazing. Wonderful separation. The effects are clear and well placed in the distance. Her voice was not remotely sibilant.

The opening of Duende was crisp. Tony Levin’s bass did not break up and i did not get any digital artifacts. Air around the guitar and high hats is amazing and there is a presence and dynamism I am unused to.

The Berg piece was very interesting. One of the ongoing challenges of many of these DACs is that if they play big, they play everything big. The BACCH was one of the few devices that properly scaled chamber piece that I have heard while also giving the size and scale of songs like Be Still My Beating Heart. This seemed intimate and well sized. String separation was excellent and no sibilance, yet gain.

Performance on this unit is elite and rivals anything I have ever heard. At $45.5K it should be. Although a steep price, the on-board streamer is excellent, the Linn Software works very well and this is the first preamp in a DAC I like. If you view this as a substitute for 2-3 components that price seems less unapproachable.

Later on I did test with Roon both via a Nucleus+ and the Oladra. I found bass was slightly better via Roon at the expense of a little mid-range magic. I can’t say which is decidedly better as it is a matter of taste.

All that said, this is not a device that can be handled or setup without assistance. I sold my Klimax (ordered another that is in production) to a customer in California and the first thing I did was ask for measurements to build out his Space Optimization and we have required Linn Tech Support. This is not a casual device and is technologically as advanced of a device I have seen.

It is painfully obvious why Linn picks and chooses its dealers carefully. This is not a low maintenance, set it and forget it type line. You need dealer support and even for digital products, it is best to have on-site installation to get Space Optimization dialed in. If you have a good Linn dealer near you or have one that you know and can work with remotely, this thing is a really great unit.

The final aspect that is interesting about Linn is that it is hardware upgradable and they are committed to making sure that their devices are perpetually upgradable. If you have an older Klimax with Katalyst DAC and older PS, new modules can be ordered and installed.

So, it has been a while since an update.  I have had a lot of units in and generally I am observing the rule of, "if you can't say something nice."  I have had a lot of underwhelming competitive devices in.  Just because something is produced with inexpensive labor justifying lower cost, does not mean the product was produced at a standard that means the price is fair.  

That said, I have some updates with more to come as there is a LOT of new news in my product offerings and I do have a competitive product that I have been waiting to hear for a while and was quite good.  

I am going to write up four separate entries for the Linn Klimax DSM, Bricasti M21 and then one post writing a contrast of the Mola Mola Tambaqui vs the Linn Selekt DSM w/ Katalyst DAC. We also have a series of new Rockna Products on the way, Acoustic Arts is a brand I am seriously considering adding ad a myriad of other devices from some excellent and new partners. 

Thank you, and to clarify I agree there is no absolute best, just a personal “best” that varies from person to person and system to system. What you say about the character of Playback and Weiss makes sense.

I’m using the Weiss with a CH amplifier and Rockport speakers, no preamp as I'm running the Weiss direct.  I had a Levinson preamp in the middle and it was very good but I am very pleased with the sound I'm getting after removing it.

I would not at all characterize the sound as clinical or dry. It is extremely detailed, but not at the expense of musicality. It’s very dynamic and lifelike with the best soundstage I’ve ever heard.  I am astonished by it each time I listen. There is zero fatigue and I can (and do) listen late into the night far too often. :)

Can’t compare to Playback as I have no experience with them other than hearing them at a few shows.

Best is a terrible thing to think of.  Like any piece of audio equipment, system synergy matters far more than anything else. I personally like the Playback in my Canor System with Wilson Benesch speakers.  If I switch to VAC, I think the Helios is better.  Something about VAC Master preamp and the Playback DAC don’t work together.  Almost like the combination is too much of a good thing.  
 

The Weiss is cleaner and a touch colder than the MPD-8.  Exactly what you would expect from an ESS based DAC.  The crosstalk DSP though adds an immense amount of depth to the image and is awesome.  
 

The Playback is warmer and sweeter.  When I swapped in Westminster REI amps, it was the only DAC I really loved with those.  It is also insanely good with DSD.  
 

You have to consider the rest of the system.  There is a best for you and your system and that can and should be very different from person to person.  

How does the Weiss Helios compare to the Playback Designs MPD-8? On the forum with "best" in the name, I saw that one dealer of both brands preferred the Playback (even just the MPD-6 with USB-X4) for being more dynamic and "analog", and harmonically developed, and this is before Playback’s upcoming mk2 upgrade...

Just stopping by to echo the comments by Verdantaudio regarding the Weiss Helios. It’s stunningly good and will not be leaving my system.  Now what to do with the QB-9 Twenty it replaced... :)

Cary is a fine purveyor of high quality audio equipment. 

@verdantaudio It gets even better with the Cary DMS-700.  Unfortunately, Cary does not get enough recognition for their digital line-up.  It's probably the best value out there in its price class as a DAC/streamer one box solution.

Okay...as I wait for my BACCH-SP Adio to arrive, I have a few other units that are worth doing a write up on.  

Cary Audio DMS-600 is one that was traded in.  This is a DAC/Streamer in one box.  I plugged in the unit.  Downloaded the Cary Application and put in my Qobuz credentials and was listening in less than 5 minutes.  Took a few minutes to settle in on mechanics of the device.  Dialed in the volume and let the system warm up. 

In a Sentimental Mood has good sparkle in the piano.  Detail is not elite but is very good.  Drum rolls showing good separation.  What really stands out is the great staging.  

Be Still My Beating Heart sounds big.  Image extending well beyond the speakers to the right and left.  The central image and voice lack a touch focus.  The central image lacks definition and it feels like the voice is coming from a very broad space.  This is one of those things that no DAC at this level does super well.  It is not off putting, just something I am noticing.  Noise floor is good and there is no sibilance in Sting's voice.  

Noise floor is superb on Liberty.  Effects coming from where they belong.  Tonally, her voice is hitting notes that are perfectly forward.  Right in front of me, without me feeling the need to lean back or forward.  No sibilance.  

Opening of Duende is good.  It struggles a bit to keep up with Tony Levin but again, based on price point, this is very normal.  Song sounds full.  Bass response is balanced and is neither pronounced nor is it absent.    The berg quartet sounds wonderful.  Maybe lacks the intimacy of the Chord TT2 but is quite enjoyable to listen to. 

All in all, this is a product that is quite competitive in its price class.  I am pleasantly surprised with how enjoyable it is to listen to.  Smooth without being syrupy.  Neiter forward nor laid back.  This is a pretty nice device.  I don't particularly like the way I control Qobuz from within the App but it is stable and not buggy.  I just don't like the UI.  

In coming days we will write up a POV on the Auralic Vega and Luxman DAC.  

So I have recently spent time with the Hegel H600 integrated amp and DAC.  This has been an interesting test as it is a replacement for the old H590 I had.  I want to focus on the DAC first.  

After some testing, my feeling is the DAC is very much in-line with DACs that are in the ~$5K range.  In fact, I find that the internal DAC sounds a lot like an Audiobyte HydraVox which I think is pretty high praise.  

The image may not have the raw scale of the Audiobyte but tonally it is very similar and has a little bit better depth.  Instrument separation is strong in "In a Sentimental Mood".  Image is big and deep on "Be Still My Beating Heart."  I heard no sibilance in Sting's voice.  Effects were place correctly in "Liberty" and the background was exceptionally dark.  Good separation with the opening in "Duende" and the Berg piece was lovely and sized well.  

What struck me most is the improvement in the amplifier.  The 590 was a smidge analytic though it never drifted bright.  It sounded analytic and less musical than other amps I have here.  The H600 is noticeably more musical and engaging compared to the 590.  

This H600 is a lifestyle oriented item that doesn't sound like one.  Single box with streamer built in but not really compromising in terms of sound.  This is not an inexpensive device at $12,500 and we should expect exceptional performance at this price.  

No unit works with every speaker.  You would never put this with klipsch or something like Cube Audio which thrives on amps with a low damping factor.  For mainstream speakers: Dynaudio, Wilson Benesch, Spendor, Harbeth, Perlisten, Q Acoustics, etc... this is a brilliant unit.  

Let me just add one thing that Scott didn't mention.  The Weiss has two small toggle switches on the back that let you adjust down the output of the DAC by -10, -20 or -30dB.  As this is a straight-forward DAC you will be using it with your preamp or integrated, and this feature enables you to operate your volume control over its optimal range.

@ddafoe i used the stock PSU.  They make an external from Weiss.  I just didn’t buy one.  I have considered adding it.  Compared to the Meitner, this unit is a step down.  With the external PSU I am sure it is much closer.  

@verdantaudio, were you using the stock power supply with the 204 or something else?   I have the 205 and just purchased a Keces LPS for it and thought it was a nice improvement in dynamics and maybe it offered a little more fullness/mass to the presentation.   I compared the combo with my Meitner MA3, and was very impressed with it relatively speaking for the difference in $$.

I cannot believe you are that naive to think someone or a few here are shells for retailers. End game DAC to stop all this nonsense. Any Playback Design DAC. I finally got off the DAC merry go round with one of Playback DAC’s.  Playback is End Game DAC material for sure. Try one you will see or hear as it would be. 

I have been promising you guys a review of the Weiss DAC 204 and here it is.  The real question is the comparison vs. the 501/502.  I don't have a 501/502 here at the moment for comparison.  I do have the Helios which is a bit unfair.

Packaging is kind of lame.  It is in a simple cardboard box with recycled, shredded paper as the protective material.  For $3500, I expect foam.  Maybe this is greener????

Tonally, this unit is a Weiss.  It is not perfectly neutral and drifts a hair forward like other Weiss products.  The sound is similar as well.  The unit is detailed and sounds quite revealing.  The image has good depth and width.  

In a Sentimental Mood had sparkly piano and excellent placement of instruments.  Be Still My Beating Heart has scale.  Sting's voice is not sibilant in my system, but I think in a slightly brighter setup it could drift that way.  Liberty sounds clear with very black background. Again, no sibilance. The noise floor is quite low on this.  Great detail with Duende and the unit appears to be able to keep up with the more complex portions of the song.  The Berg piece sounds right sized and intimate. 

Based on my notes, I am not seeing hug differences between the 204 and 501/502.  All indications are the 501/502 are a bit more detailed and the image is more stable.  That said, I can't say that with absolute certainty.  

Just make sure power cord and coax is the same

Anyone in the Dallas area.  There will be an Audio Show on March 15-17 Hilton Market center. . I work with Infigo audio and I own the Method 4 Dac. It uses the Ess Sabre 9038 chipset. The inventor worked with the sister company Ressonessence. It’s an high end super dac. We will be showing with the Stenheim Ref 2 of Ref 3. Come take a listen. 

I have been crazy busy these past two weeks. We had a Halloween party for my 5YO daughter and had more than 20 kids at the house. Still cleaning up.

scott you missed an opportunity there!... children have the best hearing... we all would have wanted to know how many among the group of 25 5 year olds would prefer a rockna over a weiss over a merason!!! 😂🤣

I have been crazy busy these past two weeks. We had a Halloween party for my 5YO daughter and had more than 20 kids at the house.  Still cleaning up.  

Will test 204 this weekend.  I also have the Innuos Pulsar and Pulse Mini in and a DAC in a Moon headphone amp that all need to be written up.  
 

@verdantaudio 

any new insights?

@verdantaudio 
Thank you so much.!!

I very much look forward to hearing your thoughts and where you think the 204 falls in comparison to some of the other excellent DAC's you've tested. 

@earthbound Thank you for the kind words.  This is energizing and makes me want to test more gear.  

@pgastone So...I have the 204 but have yet to do a critical listening test.  It is fully broken in as the unit has been out to a couple customers.  It will be back this week.  

I did spend a brief period of time with it and it is very good sounding but then had a customer in and had to switch back to the Helios.  I will try and spend some time with it this weekend.  My hunch is that the external power supply might be required to get the most out of it.  

@verdantaudio 

Thank you again for this amazing thread.
Have you gotten around to listening to the Weiss Dac 204?
I am very curious to know what you think and if in fact it is basically a 501/502 without the bells and whistles.  I am looking to upgrade my current dac and Weiss is on the shortlist- I am trying tp stay as close $5k-$6k as possible, (although I am starting to realize this may be difficult considering what I am looking for), so if the 204 is THAT good it would probably be at the top of the list .

Having followed this thread while shopping for a dac, it opened my eyes to some great options. I did some research and ended up calling Scott. After discussing what I was looking for, he gave me some advice and I ended up with the Rockna Wavedream Edition. My previous dac was a modded Cambridge cxn v2. I truly can’t describe the difference in sound that the Rockna produces. I was starting to think I wasn’t going to be able to achieve the sound I had envisioned my system was capable of when I started the process. After rolling some tubes and the dac breaking in a bit, or my ears, I can say I’ve never been more satisfied. I’ve found great synergy with the Aric Audio Custom pset, Super 6sn7 Linestage, Rockna and Audio Note speakers. Really produces a beautiful, clear, natural sound. Thanks Scott for your patience and help. Aric too! 

@richh84 I don't have a plan right now to test the Berkeley DACs.  I am not a Berkeley dealer and have not had a chance to get one in on trade.  I have heard very good things about them but can't say I have ever heard one of their DACs.  

@verdantaudio

Thank you for this insight , any experience or plans to test the Berkeley Alpha DAC Series 3 or Reference Series 3. ive heard incredible things.

@richh84 So...this is tough.  My feeling is the Playback MPD 8 with the MPT 8 transport is going to give you the most musical experience.  There is something incredibly musical and soulful about the Playback DACs and they are at their very best with the matching transport as that is best support for PLink.  

That said, if soundstage is the concern I would lean towards Aries Cerat assuming you are not interested in DSD playback.  The Aries Cerat has a bigger image and dynamics are extraordinary.  It lacks the soulfulness of the Playback but makes up for it by delivering a jaw-dropping image.  If you are into DSD and wanted a similar image I would look at the EMM DA2 v2.  

For detail, the Weiss Helios is insane.  I have never heard better separation of instruments and within an extraordinarily deep image.  This will give you string instrument renders that are as good as I have ever heard.  

Based on your priorities above, Playback would be what I would go with but I suggest the others as there is a balancing and tradeoffs even at this level.  In all cases, each of these units needs to be matched with an exceptional server to get the most out of them and that will vary, even among the three above

@verdantaudio

this thread is amazing thank you for putting it together, I am looking for my next dac, i just sold my lampi horizon. all my current top picks seem to be represented here.

What would be your current top pick for pure musicality? In your opinion

If i had to list my priorities in order- musicality , tonal density , soundstage width and depth, dynamics , flow / prat, detail ( i am a sucker for extremely detailed string instrument renders)

Looking forward to more reviews.

I had the Topping D90LE and the D90SE for a short time. Both of those DAC ended up being sold rather quickly since I found them rather lifeless. I like the Benchmark DAC3B a lot more than the Topping units. I still have the DAC3B and likely keep that around.

I am now down to 1 final audio piece to get to finish off my Livingroom system (other systems are done). I am looking at the PlayBack Designs Dream DAC (or the lower PBD unit). The system I plan this for currently has the DAC3B using a PlayBack Designs streamer (via SPDIF).

Listening to the Livingroom system already gives me goose bumps (every time). It sounds even better with the Schitt Yggi+ Less is More DAC, but I need that DAC in my office system. I am assuming a top tier DAC would be over the top incredible.

@verdantaudio , thank you for the write-up on the Weiss Helios. It seems like it's pretty fantastic.

Now to start my daily checks to try to find a deal on one...

Here is a new review of the Topping D90LE. I am sure this is going to annoy a segment of the community here and they are not going to want to hear this. I found this demo supremely disappointing because of the hype associated with this product. If you ignore the hype and looks at this as an ~$1000 DAC with a good feature set, it is a good DAC at that price.

the topping d90 was one of the first dacs i tried on my long road with dacs -- i concur 100%...  it is a clear sounding unit but with poor timbre, flat soundstage and a notably robotic quality to its sound... it was in and out within a week

@verdantaudio 

Interesting that you would throw this into the mix given the obviously better units that typically cross your doorstep. I agree with you regarding the hype when it comes to Topping, and I think your comments and evaluation are fair.

I think it would be interesting to compare against a Musician’s Pegasus as they are in the same price range.

Here is a new review of the Topping D90LE. I am sure this is going to annoy a segment of the community here and they are not going to want to hear this. I found this demo supremely disappointing because of the hype associated with this product. If you ignore the hype and looks at this as an ~$1000 DAC with a good feature set, it is a good DAC at that price. 

I plugged this in and connected it to my Antipodes Oladra via I2S and via AES. I tested both and I2S was superior. AES had significant smearing in low frequencies and I2S had less so I stuck with I2S.

In a Sentimental Mood sounded good. Drum rolls were crisp. Music was enjoyable. Stage seems smallish but this is not a large sounding song.

Be Still My Beating Heart sounded small. Image was concentrated between the speakers and was centered maybe a foot behind the speakers. This is a song that sounds huge and can be quite immersive with some effects coming from behind you in certain moments.

Liberty again, sounds small. The effects were not coming from the distance, but between the speakers. Her voice had an edge to it, not sibilant but close. This is quite impressive as many units drift into painful territories on that song.

In the opening of Duende there was still significant smearing in the bass notes that we hear in Levin’s solo. Drum rolls are good and dynamics are okay but the image is very centered.

Good separation and intimacy on the Berg piece.

This is a fine $1K DAC. It seems particularly good for acoustic music. It would be interesting to hear this compared to the modestly priced Cambridge, Peachtree and Musical Fidelity DACs. It is not interesting and not fair to compare it to units that are more expensive. You get a lot more in terms of staging and clarity at higher price points.  If you are in the market for $1000 DAC, this should be on your list as it does a lot of stuff well.  Don't think you are going to trade down and it will deliver the same listening experience as a more premium unit.  

@metaldetektor Sorry for the delay in responding.  It has been a hectic week here.  

I am using the "Direct Connect" via ethernet from my Antipodes Oladra server.  This should be virtually identical to feeding it from an Antipodes K41.  I tested the internal renderer and the AES input from the Oladra clock and found them to be pretty similar so I defaulted to the onboard player.

I am waiting on the MPS-X to arrive.  I ordered one in April and they are so backordered it still isn't here yet.