Counterfeit Chinese Cables
I thought that I would write this for those who are curious about one of the many counterfeit Chinese interconnect cables that are available these days. I know that there have been threads about the subject before, and I was always curious because they seem to be such a bargain. I don't really recall much about what any members actually said about the performance of these counterfeit cables, and I didn't look back and do any research, but a couple of months ago there was a thread that came around to discussing the quality of Chinese made components, and oldhvymec said something that made sense to me.
He said that people that say that what they are making is junk should consider that much of what is in our gear, and a lot of our American brands are actually manufactured there. I decided shortly after that that I would take the chance on a set of interconnects, because I suspected that the interconnects going from my pre to my amp were the weak link and needed upgrading. The interconnects going from my DAC to my pre were Kimber Select which are very good, but the other set were LAT International (now defunct) which had cost $500.00 when new, but I had reason to believe they were lacking because I have one of their digital cables that turned out to be very poor sounding in comparison to others I own.
I decided on a one meter pair of counterfeit Nordost Odin interconnects for a total of $104.00 from Aliexpress. I received them a couple of weeks later. They appeared to be well made, and the locking fake WBT rca's were very impressive and are very tight.
First impressions after installing them were light, thin sound, lacking bass. Each couple of days brought improvements, but from the beginning I noticed that they were quieter. Now, weeks later, I can say that they are drastically better that the LAT's in every way. Detail and ambience are much better, but it's the focus and separation of instruments that is most noticeable.
I have no way of knowing if they are really a copy of the Nordost design, but I am impressed enough that I am going to try a counterfeit Nordost digital cable.
Obviously, this isn't a comparison that is useful to most, because there probably isn't anyone here using the LAT's, and everything is system dependent. I just wanted to relay my positive experience.
@milhorn The very fact that you believe that an audio system can be evaluated over computer speakers with YouTube as a source discredits anything else you could say. As far as all samples of the same cable sounding different, well maybe the ones you make have that problem, but I don't think that you can give any proof that this is the case with other brands, and I haven't heard other members complaining about it either. |
1st off, I am sure many audiophiles will agree on "varying performance of cables (or audio equipment) on copies of same model." They all are sound different. It is one of audio myths. Yes. there are some similarities to ID them at least, but they sound all different. 2nd, listen to my audio system below. Every one (even to non-trained ears)can hear any little changes in my system. There is no glare or veil. The sound is closest to the original music that I can hear/feel the moist of lips and tongue of singers. I believe that the video supports my claim. Alex/Wavetouch |
I am a cable manufacture and make very good cables. I know a lot about cables. Chinese fake cables and genuine brand cables are all made by people who don’t know how to make high quality audio cables properly. Yes. They will make strong and unnecessarily high current capable computer power cords but no audio cables. I know this because every same model cables sound different. No two cables sounds same in thousand of same copies. There is no control in sound quality. I know why this happen because I make properly made audio cables. It is very hard to make audio cables properly. All my cables are sounding same with the perfect quality control. **I won’t tell secrets. So, please don’t ask. In same model the fake one might have cheaper materials even if it looks same to genuine ones. The cheaper ones don’t mean worse sounding. It is matter of luck the fake or genuine sounds bit better than other copies in one’s audio system. The veiled sounding audio system can’t show a cable’s veiled sound. To evaluate cables a perfect reference sound is needed. Where is this perfect ref sound? There is none. Though my audio system (and who bought my system) is closest to the perfect reference sound. There are few very distance 2nd reference quality systems. I know they put their life time to make those audio systems. My hats off to them. No. My audio system isn’t perfect and the best sounding. The freq balance will be changed by thickness and shape of cables. The sound quality can be better with better parts. And taste of sound varies with people. But to evaluate cables, mine is the best for right now. Alex/Wavetouch |
Bigtwin...i bought some furutech wire just to see if its...well you know.I did buy some connectors direct from japan.Wasnt quite ali $...but didnt hurt as bad either. Does it make me more comfortable knowing i payed for "real" product.The north american furutech distributor i talked with said that is really hard to tell these days. |
My biggest concern with Ali, and this also applies to many of the non knock off products as well, is my doubt of the claims they make. For example, bulk power cable that purports to be 9.999 OCC (not just OFC) copper. Either it's complete B.S. about the wire being used or, and I hate to think this, we are getting royally screwed by North American supplies who charge 10 times the price for the same product claim. Not sure which one makes me feel worse. 🤣 |
I bought a set of the Odin 2 balanced interconnects as well. Again, not a significant change in my case, maybe my senses are starting to fade with age :-). I plan to swap in my old interconnects to see if there is significant difference. I have a set of the speaker cables on order and will put them up against BJC, Mogami and Kimber 8TC (just bought used) to see how they stand up.
|
@zlone Thanks for the pics. Nice to see the construction. I bought complete set of gold power and interconnects for one system and a complete set of odin 2 interconnects and speaker cables for a second system. The power cords didn’t stand out but were very nice for $35. Preferred my VH Audio DIY flavors and DIY Kimberkable tc12. BUT the interconnects and speaker cables (to a slightly lesser degree) were a jaw dropping improvement. Crushed my Morrow (MA3) and DH Audio (Q10). Incredible value for performance level. I just do not like that they use the Nordost branding. |
I was curious enough to order some of these cables and took the power cable apart to see how it was constructed and to check out the wire and insulation. In general, the construction is quite good and well done, and the plugs are high quality. Here are some pics of what I found: Solid connections with insulation right up to the screws.
Another view of all three connections. Note three wires twisted for each channel, and a single ground.
A shot of the plug enclosure. This is very well done, the silver piece is all metal.
But, the deal breaker I think. The wire is silver coated and has a copper core as advertised. However taking some simple measurements using a caliper on the single ground wire, it is in the neighborhood of 1 mm. This equates to 18 AWG vs. Nordost spec of 15 AWG per wire for these cables. Combined, the three wires will give you a 13 AWG equivalent, not quite a firehose.
|
@tweak1 hth - Care to share the recommended PCs from Amazon? TIA |
About 6 months ago I completely rewired my system using the Ali-E Nordost Odin 2 cables. I took a slow, one at a time approach. Each time my system sounded significantly better than with my WireWorld ($$$$) cables! As I recall, DIY HiFi (the vendor) provided the option (at a price) for boxes. I never did that, but I doubt they go THAT far. Although they use Nordost wooden blocks, and say Nordost on the cables, I seriously doubt they are true Nordost cables, just repackaged. The speaker cables are unlike the Nordost ribbon design, which IMO is a plus. Decades ago I had the Nordost Blue Heaven speaker cables (ribbon) and they were a bit unwieldy as they tend to roll up. HOT TIP: make sure you sign up for alerts. I would look at the cable offerings and save the ones I wanted for later purchase. Some 2-4 week later I would get emails with reduced prices. The best deep discount was for Odin 2 gold speaker cables, which were $180 off the first price! I expect them soon Now for power cords to my amp and CorePower 1800 power conditioner, a fellow 'phile gave me a tip for stupid cheap PCs from Amazon hth |
This is really wrong: https://www.aliexpress.com/i/1005002316681621.html?gatewayAdapt=glo2tha |
Don't pretend that you don't get it Jerry. You took a "holier than thou" stance towards members that buy Chinese cables, plain and simple. I knew at the time that some of those who were criticizing would end up buying, and I'm not surprised that you are among them. You can use sophomoric name calling all you want, but the facts are the facts. |
Neither can you slick, rhymes with….. No worries though I will steer clear from you. went back and read my posts and other than being sarcastic and saying Chairman Xi thanks you, The CCP encourages these activities and agreeing with lordmeltons post, not sure where I disparaged you or other. Or why I would be an honest phony. Well doesn’t matter take care. No apology needed as I really do not care.
|
| Post removed |
I have to give you some credit. After chiding myself and others for buying from the Chinese for all of this time, and supporting counterfeiters, here you are admitting to caving in and doing it yourself! A least you’re an honest phony! Also, I’m sorry to tell you that if the packaging is the same as shown in the link you provided, it is probably not genuine. I don’t think that Furutech would use a term like "High end performance grace", although I could well be wrong about that. Someone here who has purchased other Furutech products is welcome to chime in. |
| Post removed |
Exactly. And likely to get better quality (less filtered) sounding cables too. Or, if you try them, and don’t like them and decide to resale them, at least you can do so without having to explain to the next buyer "why you don’t like the fake cables that don’t sound like the real McCoy". Maybe some nice genuine Chinese brand cables to try too - whatever those might be. |
@lordmelton + 1 very good post and great points.
|
This is wrong on so many levels. There are plenty of good quality Chinese cables and components that aren't fakes. Producing fakes destroys the used market which is very important to our hobby. Currently I've seen some hi-end cables I would like to buy but the seller can't produce a receipt. Without provenance used cables are a gamble and as good as worthless. Would you like to live in a country where you can't trust that baby formula doesn't have gypsum mixed in it? Fake drugs, fake everything. Generally I buy new now unless I can buy with proof of original sale. |
I had the privilege of auditioning a set of real Odin 2 ($17K) in my system for several weeks (my system is shown under my ID). I replaces a set of Transparent Ultra Gen 6 ( ~$3K). They sounded very similar for a few days… then I started to realize I was hearing slightly more detail, but the details were more natural sounding… and real… the more I listened the better they sounded. I had to pull them from my system… I could not afford to buy them… but they are clearly world class interconnects… pretty awe inspiring. If I could afford them, I would upgrade my preamp (to the Top of the line ARC)…. Then buy Odin 2 interconnects and. cables. |
I, too, tried the fake Odin 2 cables and found them to sound pretty good. A bit harsh but more detailed than the Audioquest it replaced. I definitely agree that there is a moral concern, though. I ended up using acetone to wipe off the Odin brand name from the connector and used wood stain to cover the burned on mark on the wood block. That way nobody can sell these on the second hand market as Odin's after I'm dead. Interestingly, I do now wonder what legal ultra high-end cables sound like, which makes the fakes a bit of a loss-leader! :-) |
Pluses and flipsides The plus is that you have informed somewhere south of 39,000 viewers that they can buy counterfeits of very expensive cables for very little $s. This alerts potential buyers of the real thing to be very careful when purchasing on the used market. The flipside is that you have informed the unscrupulous of these 39,000 of the potential to make some easy money selling counterfeits to unsuspecting buyers thinking they are getting the real thing. Unfortunately, the real loser of this situation is the unsuspecting buyer thinking he is purchasing an authentic cable. The real winner is the manufacturer of the genuine wire that is being sold for such extravagant prices. I am totally guessing that all the R&D, material and manufacture costs of the wire (genuine) is under $300. As I have mentioned before, compared to the complexity of designing amps, sources and speakers, and the complexity of many of the jobs held by members of this forum, the development of a good/excellent sounding cable seems pretty mundane. Just my opinion. |
I only have experience with the fake Golds but I really like them. At somewhere around the 50-75 hour mark they became much more relaxed and holographic for lack of a better word (and they are pretty relaxed right out of the bag). Soundstage depth was probably marginally enhanced but depth or sense of depth seemed to really improve with break in. They are a very "musical" cable as opposed to a "hi-fi" sounding cable. I’m going to experiment a bit further and have a couple of sets of the Golds cryogenically treated and see how they react. As it is right now, they are the only non-cryoed cables in my system as I’ve been either having stuff cryoed myself or running cables that have been treated by the manufacturer for the past 15+ years. I’m not looking forward to the burn-in post cryo as it will be a bit nasty and definitely take some time (50-100 hours all over again I’d expect, maybe more) and I normally just take cables in to one of my local dealers to have them run on the cable cooker for a few days after cryo. Cost is there but the benefits of not having to deal with burn-in are worth it IMO. But my dealer with the cable cooker is a Nordost dealer and I don’t have the heart to show up there with multiple pairs of fake Odin Golds (would be two initially and then possibly 4 more!) and ask them to cook them lol!
|
Listened to Paul Butterfield Blues Band this morning. I am very familiar with this disc. Completely warmed up. Cut 8 has a good bit everything on it System: Emerald Physics 3.4s OB, 12" concentric woofers with 1" polyester tweeters. Very efficient, Audiolab 6000 CDT, Audio Alchemy DDP-1 + PS 5 outboard power supply, 20amp dedicated line, CorePower 1800 PLC, all are on iso/vib devices, connectors treated with The Audio Scientist Cable Enhancer Rx. All cables well broken in. I replaced a pair of Neardost Odin 2s with Odin Golds. Obviously ~ 50 hours break in needed, but initially, the stage came forward, and wider/better separation, but the background sounded clearer and deeper in the mix. Foot tappin’, head bobbing! GOOD STUFF $62.00/1.5m UNREAL NORDOST 0.6M XLR msrp $34,999, $9999 FOR EACH 0.5M
|
