Top load really matters to avoid mechanical failures.
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Get an Innuos Zen Mk3, load all your CDs into it an introduce yourself into the wonderful world of streaming and a whole new world of music you would’ve never heard with your silver discs.
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+1 with the sioux fellow.
Although Fed Ex beats UPS anyway.
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it might not make big difference with DACs that offer strong jitter suppression, like my Benchmark DAC3 (with Asynchronous Rate Converter), but will make some difference with most DACs. Higher end transports tend to have higher slew rate of digital output, minimizing effect of noise "riding" on the signal that can move moment of level recognition (threshold) back and forth in time (on jagged signal slopes). In addition higher quality transports most likely will have better quality, quieter supplies injecting less noise. The best would be high end transport with high slew rate output, that you can perfectly impedance match to cable and DAC. Toslink outputs don't have characteristic impedance problem (reflections on impedance boundaries), but have slower transitions, making it more susceptible to noise induced jitter. Jitter of digital words in time domain translates to added noise in frequency domain - noise that is proportional to signal level, non-audible without signal - basically affecting sound clarity.
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If you can rip your CDs into a storage (could be a hard drive or a server) and either play directly via connecting to a DAC, or stream via a network, it’ll simplify things.
Transports mattering, or how more expensive devices are better is not the question - a transport is just a mechanical winder with a laser reader which then sends the bits to an external DAC.
A CD player itself is a transport, it just has the DAC within the same case. But step back and think - its more profitable for people within a specific chain if you buy two devices instead of one: manufacturers, distributors and sellers. Are two devices better than one? Could be. Could not be if the one device is made well, if noise is suppressed by ensuring proper shielding.
In certain ways two devices are worse for sure - more materials consumed, more power used, more space needed, more heat produced. Things add up.
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First, does the transport matter… yes. High end manufactures take mass produced transports and isolate them and provide very stable current. They go to great lengths to get the best stream of bits out of them.
However, it is a stream of bits… which you can get from a local file, 0r a network drive, or a streaming service. If it was ten years ago one would look for a great CD player (Transport, Streamer, and DAC). But today it is old technology. Today and the future is about streaming. A good streamer and DAC completely replaces a CD player as a digital source. You can buy a combined streamer, storage, and DAC, or individual. But the future is streaming… not owning physical or digital media. My streamer (using Qobuz) sounds the same on red book CDs and vinyl and frequently better with high Rez. There is no longer a compelling reason to buy a CD player unless you love playing with physical things.
BTW, from a historical perspective it was physical media, then rip CDs (copy a digital file to a storage device… like hard drive), then copy files to a network drive. All historically interesting, but something in ten years folks will be laughing at… you did what? Why?
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Coincidentally, Ayre Acoustics released a new CD player today, the CX-8.
Also apparently Ayre's best DAC is on board, and includes both streaming connectivity in, as well as digital and analog out.
Interesting....
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Why not try listening to one in your system ?
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the transport matters. big time, interconnect too, defies logic, really wish it weren‘t so. Take @stuartk‘s sage advice and see for yourself.
If you can‘t hear a difference count yourself very lucky..
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There is no longer a compelling reason to buy a CD player unless you love playing with physical things.
The arguments for streaming are manifold, however this is not a universally held view. See threads discussing this issue.
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The difficult piece is finding a dealer who will send me a transport to sample in my system. Obviously that would be the simple way to determine if there is any improvement compared to my current CD player.
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@pesky_wabbit
the transport matters. big time, interconnect too, defies logic, really wish it weren‘t so. Take @stuartk‘s sage advice and see for yourself.
If you can‘t hear a difference count yourself very lucky.
Correct! For those who say they hear little difference between CD transports , okay then buy the cheapest one you can find and be done with it. My experience has been quite different and there are significant degrees of sonic quality amongst them.
Without exception in my listening experiences the better the CD transport quality, the better the sound quality. CD transports as the source to the downstream DAC play a crucial role. I own the Pro Ject RS2T CD transport and its insertion into my audio system is undeniably impactful. Its sound quality is superb.
The belief that it's all about the DAC is misguided in my opinion. Same sorce priciple applies to music servers/streamers. As they increase in their quality, so does the overall sound quality. A friend of mine recently acquired the Taiko Extreme music server and the impact and improvement it provides compared to the former server is profound! Front end digital sources matter and matter greatly.
If one cannot hear or appreciate the difference then yes, of course it'd be a waste of money and pointless to upgrade to better quality digital source transport /music server components.
Charles
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+1 Charles.
When I purchased my Mojo Audio EVO DAC, Ben at Mojo advised that I purchase a better transport if I wanted to get the more out of the EVO. I went with a Sim and there was a noticeable improvement from a Cambridge transport in my system.
@mdrone - maybe PM member amorstereo (Terry London) , he is a reviewer and has stated that he has had several transports in his system including the Project that Charles noted above. I expect that he would give you a balanced view of transports. Below is a link to his review of the Project Transport
Pro-Ject CD Box RS2 Transport (stereotimes.com)
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solid feels better, but
the drawer could be made of granite, rolling on ruby diamonds, or cardboard, totally irrelevant.
after closing, disc gets lifted up and spun, by nearly universal parts, and nearly universal brains, to maintain a constant data stream speed.
"CDs spin at about 500 rpm when read near the center, decreasing to approximately 200 rpm when read near the circumference, producing a constant linear velocity."
the laser simply moves independently in a straight line below the spinning disc, also governed by nearly universal parts and brains
the cheapest portable cd player is able to do this, it's the software, up-scale, re-clock, anti-jitter, error correction, filters, then the dac(s) that make the audible difference.
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they've mattered very much in my system
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Yes, I agree with Charles and the others who have said that they make a very audible difference. Get the best one that you can afford.
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@mdrone :
I compared the Pro-ject to my Sim and there was an immediate and very significant improvement.
Although I did not care for the ergonomics of the Pro-ject, its sonic merits were clear as day.
You could order the Pro-ject from one of the online audio sellers than offer returns and return it if you didn't like it. The proof is in the listening!
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Made a definite improvement even in my mid level system when I stepped up from a Cambridge Audio ACX 35 CD player ( as CD and as transport) to their CXC v2 transport. Can’t face spending hours and months ripping my CD collection to a server even if it’s a better way to go.
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Audio Advisor expects to get more by 3/18.
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... the Pro-ject, that is.
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@stuartk
You could order the Pro-ject from one of the online audio sellers than offer returns and return it if you didn’t like it. The proof is in the listening!
This is a very good suggestion @mdrone assuming that the Pro-Ject is within your budget range. Listen and evaluate in your own audio system. If you deem it is not worth it then return it after your trial period.
I’ve owned an early generation Esoteric transport with the VRDS disc clamping mechanism and also the P.S.Audio Memory PWT. Both were exceptionally good CD transports but the Pro-Ject RS2T is just better from A to Z in all conceivable ways. Your listening impressions may or may not be the same as mine.
Charles
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Tried 3 different transports into my Mojo Evo dac. Oppo (good), Pioneer (better), Esoteric (best). The differences are easily heard. The Esoteric with its VRDS transport is the winner by a wide margin.
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@charles1dad The belief that it’s all about the DAC is misguided in my opinion.
Comparing different transports with the same DAC is robust. Easy. And Sigma Delta DACs are mostly all very good these days. So, yes. Cannot comment on R2Rs but I understand from reviews that they vary. Yeah.
However something that may be quite relevant, I reckon, is that in comparing a CDP with a transport plus DAC, is that the DACs are in fact being compared.
The external (high quality) DAC with the internal DAC of the CDP of years past. "Aged Luxman CDP". I have a aged Technics CDP wasting space with something called MASH. It’s not pretty.
What I reckon most folk would be interested in is comparing a transport to their CDP where the same DAC is attached - if the CDP has digital out. I don’t know if CDPs generally have digital out. Especailly if they are like maybe 10 or 15 + years old.
And as I found recently, the transport mechanism in the CDP can become tired and require replacement by a technician (total cost for me was less than $100). So that aspect is different as well. But I digress.
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@noske :
"However something that may be quite relevant, I reckon, is that in comparing a CDP with a transport plus DAC, is that the DACs are in fact being compared".
Perhaps the answer to this is to run a digital cable from the CDP (thereby bypassing its internal DAC) to a standalone DAC, then compare that pairing to the sound of a standalone transport connected to the same standalone DAC.
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@stuartk Yes, exactly, you got it. I’d encourage people to follow this advice.. Its just prudent and common sense.
My own CDP (Rega Saturn) has some DAC in it that was state of the art at the time - in 2008. It is very good, as it happens.
Chucked on a basic no frills Topping DAC and hello better everything.
Due to geography I can’t do a like with like comparison with a transport right now, but I certainly aim to do so before parting with over about USD$3,000 for a Pro-Ject transport.
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Yes I've already run my CD player via my Bricasti DAC. Sounds better but not that much impact which leads me to wonder if the issue is the transport in the Luxman ( or my digital cord).
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BTW; has anyone tried the Bel Canto CD transport. Looks reasonably priced but few reviews on it.
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Audiolab 6000CDT has a buffer which helps considerably MSRP ~ $700
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Sounds better but not that much impact which leads me to wonder if the issue is the transport in the Luxman ( or my digital cord).
Issues with CDP are usually always mechanical, not electrical. Like, due to any number of reasons they fail which may manifest in skipping, getting stuck etc which you may find sometimes happens "normally" with a defective or dirty CD.
Yeah, so look elsewhere as you suggest like some robust cabling. I understand that 75 ohm coax should be at least 1.5 meters - about 5 feet. No, I don’t understand either when normally shorter is better.
Or perhaps some hardware aspects of your CDP have deteriorated with age which affect the digital signal.
The Technics CDP I mentioned is unlistenable probaly due to dodgy soldering or whatever with age and poor storage, and not just because of the antique internal DAC. Haven’t tried an external DAC with it, I didn’t look for digital out. I doubt it somehow, but I might be surprised.
Anyway, "better" is a good start - as I said with mine, better (lower noise floor, better filtering, any jitter figured out etc), as it was already pretty good. That’s all.. Not for one nano-second do I trust anyone who says the earth moves with a component change - something else must be fundamentally weak.
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Audiolab 6000CDT has a buffer which helps considerably MSRP ~ $700
I understand they are very good but I don't like slot loading. Trays aren't much better.
I'm so superficial.
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@noske
I understand they are very good but I don't like slot loading. Trays aren't much better.
I'm so superficial
I believe that there's something to that perspective. It seems that there are legitimate arguments for top loading CD mechanisms. Some of the most admired and regarded CD transports were top loading and many utilized the Phillips CD PRO-2 (Still used with the highly respected Jay's Audio transport) which is superseded by the Stream Unlimited CD Pro-8 drive.
The Pro-Ject is my first top loading transport and I really like this approach compared to my prior tray loaders. I have no experience with slot loading transports.
Charles
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Somewhat off topic, but I had issues inserting disc's into the top-loading well of the Pro-ject without catching the disc on the side of the well. Does anyone know whether the well is less cramped on the Jay's?
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Aging is not improving my manual dexterity ! ;o)
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Aging is not improving my manual dexterity ! ;o)
LOL I hope that is not the case 😊
No problem for me placing the CD in the Pro-Ject.
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....at least you haven't lost your hearing....
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@charles1dad ...I didn't bother to check first but I'm pretty sure the Jay's transport does not use the Pro CD-2. CD-4 sticks in my mind.
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@acresverde
I stand corrected.
The Jay’s Audio CDT3 (Their flagship transport) utilizes the Phillips CD PRO-2LF drive unit.
The Jay’s Audio CDT2 MK II/MK III utilizes the Phillips CD M4 drive unit.
Charles
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@charles1dad :
Lucky for you that placement is easy!
I don't see a CDT3 on the Jay's website-- there's a CDT2 MK3. . . is that what you mean? I know they'll supply replacement lasers but not sure about the actual drive. If I bought the Jay's, I'd want a spare.
@mdrone :
Well, some of it is gone, which is why I don't play my electric guitar anymore (although I haven't had the heart to sell it, yet) and also why I have an SPL meter within reach of my listening chair ;o)
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@stuartk
The CDT3 was their flagship but I think it is no longer produced likely due to lack of Phillips CD Pro-2 units available as spares. They don’t have this problem with the CDM4 units for their CDT2 transport.
Charles
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@stuartk
When Teajay (Terry London) reviewed the Pro-Ject RS2T he mentioned that the Jay’s Audio CDT2 MK II was better sounding than his CEC, MBL, P.S.Audio PWT and his Accustic Arts transports. Quite the very high praise. I believe that you would be ecstatic with the CDT2 current version MK III. If the RS2T weren’t around that would definitely have been my choice.
Charles
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@charles1dad:
Thanks, Charles; that's very encouraging!
I've e mailed Jay's re: availability of spare drives.
I'd still like to move to a top-loader but naturally am wary of the infamous "boat anchor syndrome".
If I had the $, I'd just buy the Aqua Diva and be done with it. . . and a matching Formula DAC (why not?).but that's not likely.
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@stuartk
Well the Aqua Hifi Diva II would get you the coveted CD Pro-8 drive/Blue Tiger -84 servo integrated drive unit re RS2T. However for the cost I don’t believe that you will beat the Jay’s CDT2 transport. Just my 2 cents.
Charles
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@stuartk
I really wish the RS2T ergonomics and smaller size had worked out for you. You already know how good it sounds with the supplied SMPS wall wart. I got a LPS about 5 or 6 weeks ago and its just improved to silly good level. This small footprint transport just fills my listening space with a beautiful organic presentation.
Charles
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Off topic
I believe that the 2nd half of this super bowl is going to be classic!
Charles
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You and me, both, Charles!
Even my wife remarked at how good it sounded.
Just wish it was in a standard size case.
I guess Europeans have a thing for miniaturized audio. . .
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Off topic
I believe that the 2nd half of this super bowl is going to be classic!
Charles
Oh...it was. 😀
All the best,
Nonoise
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Yes @nonoise
Terrific SB game!
@stuartk
I understand that you have to feel comfortable with a component. The smaller scale form factor was chosen as to require less shelf space. The irony for me is that the small physical size is yielding huge sound field. Makes me think of Nagra. Every bit as fluid and music flowing as my old WellTempered turntable set up (Which bettered my Linn Sondek LP-12). Pro-Ject engineers did their homework on this one.
Charles
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CDT3-MK2 Flagship CDT
 
"I was so taken with the Terminator driven by the Jay’s Audio CDT-3 MK2 that I have bought two sets of both, one for each system, and sold my previous digital gear which included an Esoteric K-03x. The Terminator blew away the Esoteric’s DAC and the CDT-3 MK1 blew away the Esoteric’s transport. The Terminator is finely built, an ergonomically excellent functional design, comes with a 3 year warranty, and most importantly sounds excellent. And for me it is a bargain at its price. I wholeheartedly recommend it and the excellent Jay’s Audio CDT-3 MK2 for your consideration. And last but not least, the worldwide distributor, Alvin of Vinshine Audio provides service second to none. Thanks for reading. "
@stuartk
This is the model I was referring to above that used the Phillips CD PRO 2 drive unit.
Charles
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@charles1dad I got a LPS about 5 or 6 weeks ago and its just improved to silly good level.
At this price point I’m quite disappointed that Pro-Ject does not include an internal linear power supply.
Should there be disadvantages with this approach I must have blinked.
What pearls of wisdom did you discover in your recent LPS research and adventure? I know very little about the nuances of external LPS units, so another learning curve I guess.
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