CD transports; do they really matter
In my pursuit of total sonic harmony, I have been investigating whether a CD transport ( to replace my bulky and aged Luxman CD player ) would be a good option. I had an interesting conversation with the manufacturers rep of a respected brand regarding his companies CD transport. He basically said its all in the DAC, the transport, as long as its not a cheap component, does not make much or any difference. So, I ask does it really matter?
Another factor that is worth emphasis is the level of the home audio system. As you improve the quality of the speakers, amplification, cables etc. resolution and overall sound quality improves. You are now capable of hearing more and the differences amongst the transports become ever more obvious and distinctive. Charles |
Exactly on point! None of the lower level CD players on his list would come close in sound quality to the modestly priced Audiolab 6000. Not to mention something like the CEC TL5 or SimAudio 260D transport that takes you to an even ( higher level of sound quality from the Audiolab 6000 transport. And yet you can go further upward with Jay’s Audio CD transports and certainly Pro-Ject RS2T. IMO @majorc needs to gain exposure and listen to the better quality CD transports and then compare these to the CD players he cited. I believe that there’s no doubt he would easily recognize the significant improvement gained with better built and executed/implemented transports. Charles
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+1 A friend had the CEC TL2N (Which I believe utilizes 2 belts?) for a number of years. He purchased a P.S.Audio Memory PWT and in his audio system both sounded very well. They provided different sonic presentations and some listeners preferred one over the other (No surprises with that). Point is they were highly competitive and the PWT is not belt driven. So as is often the case, there are multiple ways of "skinning the cat". Belt drive and direct drive mechanisms if executed at a high level can be very viable options. I do agree that attention paid to limiting vibration is critical for improving the sound quality of CD transports. There are numerous ways to achieve this as well. This is one key aspect (Among others) that seperates the higher quality and better built/engineered transports from cheaper made units. |
Hi I share your admiration for the P.S.Audio Memory PWT. It is in my opinion an exceptionally good CD transport and furthermore very reliable. I owned this transport purchased new and kept it for 12 very enjoyable years. It has stood the test of very well and still one of the better quality choices available today. The existence of the Pro-Ject CD Box CD Box RS2T transport caught my attention as It had received high praise from former PWT and Jay's Audio CDT2 MK II owners. The Jay's Audio CDT2 owners familiar with the PWT preferred the Jay's. I can say without hesitation that as good as my PWT is, the Pro-Ject RS2 transport is better across the board. Simultaneously more resolved, dynamic more of an organic and fluid presentation. It did this with the supplied SMPS wall wart. It is truly an excellent CD transport that elevated to stunningly good/superb when I replaced the wall wart with a LPS. Obviously you'd have to listen and judge for yourself. Based on anecdotal and unscientific feedback from owners the ranking appears to be Pro-Ject CD Box RS2T Jay's Audio CDT2 MK II/III P.S.Audio PWT (Previous generation) I haven't seen comparisons with the current SACD/CD transport. Charles
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I haven’t heard the Pro-Ject CD Box DS2T but based on reviews and word of mouth it is quite good. The RS2T is over 3x the cost of the DS2T. For this additional money you get the latest top CD loading tech, Stream Unlimited CD Pro-8/Blue Tiger servo is integrated as a complete unit. Also much attention and engineering was applied toward vibration and resonance management. I strongly suspect that you’d be very pleased with the DS2T if you decide not to go with the RS2T. Charles |
Yep, here we go again, the tired and lame retort of confirmation bias. When someone is unable to put forth a cogent argument, there’s the good ole fallback position. This shows no respect or acknowledgement of what multiple listeners have heard and experienced . That requires too much thought and contemplation. It’s much simpler and lazy to just discount what others take the time to post here and report. If it does not fit your belief system and preconceived notions, No problem as it’s merely confirmation bias. A fair number of people have posted their respective results when moving on to or comparison with a better quality CD transport (Same can be said for better music server/streamer). Nope, doesn’t matter as they are all just fooling themselves and delusional. Oh, and of course the obligatory " They are foolishly wasting their money ". Yet for some inexplicable reason the person advocating "There is little to no difference amongst the components " is to be accepted and believed without any push back or question? Really, how So? One aspect that’s rarely acknowledged by those trumpeting confirmation bias is that it can be applied in both directions. One can be so entrenched in their own beliefs and perspective that they are incapable of accepting any outcome that differs from their predetermined rigid expectations. Charles |
You initiated this thread with a sincere question and naturally you can expect a range of different replies/opinions. However I feel that although well meaning, people posting saying transports do not much matter are really doing a disservice to the inquiring OP. I can't think of a single example where a cheap CD Rom based unit sounds anywhere near as good as a well engineered, high quality and well implemented CD transport. If someone can cite an actual example I'd love to know what it is. Charles |
Given the requirements of the DAC and CD transport and their impact on sound quality when either is suitably upgraded my perspective of their respective contribution is 50-50 Maybe 55-45 in favor of the transport. The delivery of the digital signal from the sorce is paramount. So this obviously varies from one individual's viewpoint compared to another. Charles |
No problem.. If you go to the Pro-Ject CD Box RS2T website description page they lay out their product design and objectives. I had the Esoteric P700 which may have been the first generation of the VRDS disc clamp-drive unit. I purchased it in the mid-late 1990s. It still functions fine today! I have used it in various 2nd systems. When acquired it was considered one of the better CD transports for reasonable cost. I have heard numerous later generation Esoteric transports but have not owned them. Charles |
I took the time last night to post picture and info regarding the CDT3 which is a transport. It was their flagship CD transport as recent as 2019. They may have creased production as this unit relied on the Phillips CD PRO-2 drive mechanism. Which is distinguished from their CDT2 which uses the Phillips CDM4 drive mechanism. Charles |
Well for me the number 1 objective of an audio component is "how does it sound?". So that's the first thing to address and get right. Pro-Ject specifically wanted a small footprint package (Their "Box" concept). Adding an internal LPS they reasoned is inevitably going to increase the physical package (Which they are seeking to avoid). So they went the route of external LPS for those who desire this option. Keep in mind as I and other owners and listeners have pointed out, sound quality with the wall wart is excellent. So the LPS is not mandatory for excellent sound quality. A number of users have acquired Pro-Ject's own LPS or the LTA (Linear Tube Audio) LPS with excellent results. I opted for the Fidelizer Nikola II LPS and the pairing is divine. So owners have used different brands of power supplies with terrific results. This flexibility is an additional asset. I listed the expensive transports as a reference point if they want the Stream Unlimited CD Pro-8 unit. These types of high quality CD drive mechanisms are the heart and soul of a transport. There is currently no other CD transport anywhere near the cost of the RS2T that utilizes this latest technology CD drive unit. That's a very key point. Look, I understand no matter how good I or someone else believes a component is, it is not going to please or be for everyone. Maybe the Pro-Ject simply is not what you're looking for, easily understood. There is a wide market for other transport choices. I feel that based on my actual listening experiences and direct interactions it is a marvelous sounding CD transport. YMMV as is always the case with audio related matters. Charles |
With all due respect I believe that you are missing the value/performance ratio of the Pro-Ject CD Box RS2T. At this juncture there are only a few manufacturers who have adopted the Stream Unlimited CD Pro-8 and Blue Tiger servo-84 unit. Aqua Hifi La Diva II (9,000.00), Accustic Arts Drive II (18,000.00) and the Gryphon ETHOS CD player (39,000.00). These companies felt the CD Pro-8 was the best choice for their flagship CD transports/players. Pro-Ject ofers the consumer this latest drive technology at roughly 3,000.00. This is very much worth acknowledging. Yes it is physically scaled down compared to the more expensive alternatives. It comes with a wall wart power supply whereas the more expensive alternatives have LPS as standard. So Pro-Ject is providing a reasonable cost entry point to obtain the latest Stream Unlimited CD drive mechanism technology. I do not mind the smaller form factor at all. As Terry London noted in his review, even with the supplied SMPS wall wart it still outperformed his Jay'sAudio CDT2 MK II, MBL CD transport, CEC, Accustic Arts transport (Not the current Drive II)and so on. I can understand his conclusions as the wall wart powered Pro-Ject outperformed my P.S.Audio PWT with has a LPS. So it seems to me that the Stream Unlimited CD Pro-8 and servo unit are likely the dominant factor as to why it sounds so terrific. Pro-Ject went with a wall wart power supply to lower the price entry point. They do offer a LPS upgrade option. @bigkidz who is a manufacturer of custom high end audio components and said the diminutive Pro-Ject outperformed his highly regarded Metronome CD player and his CEC. Again accomplished with the wall wart power supply. So in my opinion the Pro-Ject RS2 transport offers superb sound quality at its asking price. The cherry on top is one can further extend the sound quality if they decide at some point to add a LPS. This is a splendid scenario as far as I am concerned. Charles |
CDT3-MK2 Flagship CDT
"I was so taken with the Terminator driven by the Jay’s Audio CDT-3 MK2 that I have bought two sets of both, one for each system, and sold my previous digital gear which included an Esoteric K-03x. The Terminator blew away the Esoteric’s DAC and the CDT-3 MK1 blew away the Esoteric’s transport. The Terminator is finely built, an ergonomically excellent functional design, comes with a 3 year warranty, and most importantly sounds excellent. And for me it is a bargain at its price. I wholeheartedly recommend it and the excellent Jay’s Audio CDT-3 MK2 for your consideration. And last but not least, the worldwide distributor, Alvin of Vinshine Audio provides service second to none. Thanks for reading. "
This is the model I was referring to above that used the Phillips CD PRO 2 drive unit. Charles |
Yes @nonoise Terrific SB game! I understand that you have to feel comfortable with a component. The smaller scale form factor was chosen as to require less shelf space. The irony for me is that the small physical size is yielding huge sound field. Makes me think of Nagra. Every bit as fluid and music flowing as my old WellTempered turntable set up (Which bettered my Linn Sondek LP-12). Pro-Ject engineers did their homework on this one. Charles |
I really wish the RS2T ergonomics and smaller size had worked out for you. You already know how good it sounds with the supplied SMPS wall wart. I got a LPS about 5 or 6 weeks ago and its just improved to silly good level. This small footprint transport just fills my listening space with a beautiful organic presentation. Charles |
When Teajay (Terry London) reviewed the Pro-Ject RS2T he mentioned that the Jay’s Audio CDT2 MK II was better sounding than his CEC, MBL, P.S.Audio PWT and his Accustic Arts transports. Quite the very high praise. I believe that you would be ecstatic with the CDT2 current version MK III. If the RS2T weren’t around that would definitely have been my choice. Charles |
I believe that there's something to that perspective. It seems that there are legitimate arguments for top loading CD mechanisms. Some of the most admired and regarded CD transports were top loading and many utilized the Phillips CD PRO-2 (Still used with the highly respected Jay's Audio transport) which is superseded by the Stream Unlimited CD Pro-8 drive. The Pro-Ject is my first top loading transport and I really like this approach compared to my prior tray loaders. I have no experience with slot loading transports. Charles |
This is a very good suggestion @mdrone assuming that the Pro-Ject is within your budget range. Listen and evaluate in your own audio system. If you deem it is not worth it then return it after your trial period. I’ve owned an early generation Esoteric transport with the VRDS disc clamping mechanism and also the P.S.Audio Memory PWT. Both were exceptionally good CD transports but the Pro-Ject RS2T is just better from A to Z in all conceivable ways. Your listening impressions may or may not be the same as mine. Charles
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Correct! For those who say they hear little difference between CD transports , okay then buy the cheapest one you can find and be done with it. My experience has been quite different and there are significant degrees of sonic quality amongst them. Without exception in my listening experiences the better the CD transport quality, the better the sound quality. CD transports as the source to the downstream DAC play a crucial role. I own the Pro Ject RS2T CD transport and its insertion into my audio system is undeniably impactful. Its sound quality is superb. The belief that it's all about the DAC is misguided in my opinion. Same sorce priciple applies to music servers/streamers. As they increase in their quality, so does the overall sound quality. A friend of mine recently acquired the Taiko Extreme music server and the impact and improvement it provides compared to the former server is profound! Front end digital sources matter and matter greatly. If one cannot hear or appreciate the difference then yes, of course it'd be a waste of money and pointless to upgrade to better quality digital source transport /music server components. Charles |
