Seem like everytime i list something for sale i get offers within the first hour . They are hundreds less than asking price . Are people looking for flipping oppertunities here or what ? so annoying .
Have you ever sold a car on Craigslist? First hour or two every time I list a car or motorcycle I get several silly offers that never pan out. Same thing. From experience I expect that. Just like Audiogon I ignore the first couple and then find a nice reasonable person to sell to and it all works out.
I almost always get a very low offer early on, and despite my ads saying US sale only, I always get a quick foreign offer. Often the foreign offer is lowball and asks me to check shipping prices.
At least you are getting offers but it does seem a little insulting that they are hundreds less than your asking price, hopefully you are asking a fair market price, just politely ignore any ridiculas offers. Unfortunately I used to as a seller get statements like I would love to buy this but I simply don't have the disposable income as before.
the problem is, these people are not set in reality--the offers I have received are akin to what I would be offered at my local pawn shop. Why would I list an item here if I was willing to take Pawn Shop money? If I was that desperate to sell , I wouldn't be listing it here, i would just take it down to my local pawn shop and be done with it in 15 minutes.
I've received a lot of offers on my amp for ridiculous prices, nowhere close to the going rate. The people making these offers seem shocked when I turn them down. One guy wrote me an essay why I should sell my gear to him for so cheap. Lots of weirdos in the audio world.
Everything i have listed has sold in 30 days . All at or close to my asking prices . I t just struck me that like clockwork on all listings these offers come within an hour .So it is not my asking prices .
Agree with Maplegrovemusic. I have received some very angry argumentative responses for not accepting early lowball offers for items that fairly soon sold for much more
Who cares if you get lowball offers........simply reply that you are not willing to sell the unit at that price and decline the offer. Or if you are insulted by low offers, simply don't accept offers. List the unit at your bottom price and allow the buy now option only. Problem solved.
On CraigsList, I've received form letters with a low offer and to ship the item to them and I will receive their check. This only happens when the ad is first posted. Never received any spam like this on Agon. How could anyone fall for this trick?
Let's think intelligently here. A low offer does not necessarily mean disrespect or hustle. Some people are trying to get bargains because they can't afford the true cost and some people are also trying to move items quickly for whatever reason (relocating to another country). A lower offer can also serve as a bargaining tool. I'm not offended by low offers and don't mean it to anyone. It is just a point of negotiation. If you don't like an offer just let it hang or reject it.
I think some prices on audiogon are actually high. I recently bought a sub locally for $350 and since have seen two of the same subs as mine listed here for $450. I got my paradigm studio 60's for $1500 from a local audio shop. They were a demo pair. Three weeks ago, a pair sold here for $1700 and there is another pair for $2200. I've come to the conclusion that in these times, the used market is very competitive and most of the time, you think your possesions are worth more than they are. A year ago, I bought a cbr 900 rr for $2800, rode it for five months and then tried selling it for $2500 with new tires, a recent valve job, oil change and new spark plugs and air filter, all factory installed. I got an offer for $1800 the second day and was insulted. Ten offers and a month later, I sold it for $1800. I actually think the initial legit lowball offers (no over seas, my uncle will pay you, yada yada) are good at making you realize your mint 1982 oldsmoble isn't worth $12,000, just because you put peacock leather seats in it. I wonder if the saying "one mans junk, is another Mans treasure" might be more relavent vice versa. I figure if I pay $800 for an amp, use it for a year and then try to sell it for $800 just because I initially got a good deal on it, well then I probably am one of those people Elizabeth mentioned!
12-23-12: Tkmetz Who cares if you get lowball offers........simply reply that you are not willing to sell the unit at that price and decline the offer. Or if you are insulted by low offers, simply don't accept offers. List the unit at your bottom price and allow the buy now option only. Problem solved.
Well I feel left out. No one sends me low ball offers. What am I doing wrong? I have had a few OUS offers for US only sales, but I responded politely with an explanation and found the people to be legit. I still don't sell OUS. Its just too much of a haste. I will buy from Canada if its a rare piece. The one that really got me was a fellow who accused me of trying to rip him off after we had some confusion over who paid for shipping. At his request, I released him from the sale. Two days later, he made another offer. No thanks.
It is a waste of time . Those who are in support of this probably do it themselves which is fine. You do not have to actually be interested in owning something i am selling but you will not be profiting off me . I need the profits just as much as the reseller who wastes my time with lowballs .And i assume everybody wants to get fair market value . Oh sure you can get steals on CL time from time . I would not equate that into market value .
So what is a "lowball" really? If I offer you 200 bucks for your amp and the market reasonably indicates it's worth the $1K you are asking, that's one thing. It is quite another if I offer you 800 bucks, especially if the market indicates your asking price is a little on the high side. Maybe I just want to pay "market" or perhaps I want to negotiate something more reasonable. That doesn't make me a lowballer. While I'm sure that some buyers make ridiculous "offers", I'm also convinced that some sellers set prices which are unrealistic, invite offers and then become offended when an offer is made. The simple solution for sellers has already been mentioned...set a price and and put a 'buy it now' on the item. If you are not able or prepared to negotiate price, don't invite offers. Merry Christmas and cheers to all from Colorado.
I'm certainly not defending their activity, but I would disagree that it is a waste of time. Obviously it is not or you would not be receiving these offers. I see it as another sign of the struggling economy. Some people will do anything to make a buck these days. I've had a large increase in door-to-door salesfolk in the last year or two as well. There are few real jobs out there any more, as more and more folks are fighting for table scraps. It's sad, but it is what it is.
Just ignore it ... what's the big deal and why take it personally? Everybody wants a STEAL. If they are serious, they will offer again or initate a conversation.
Several buyers ask why no counter when I never thought their initial offer was serious. Gave a FIRM counter and some accept it.
Ladies and Gents: It is the art of negotiation! Btw, it does not have to be a reseller who is offer a low price. I look at it this way: I walk to into a Car Dealership to buy a new car. She/He tells me the price, $30, 000. I listen to the pitch and then I say $20, 000! Why because it is a starting point and I need to give myself room to adjust. In either case, your complaints are laughable. Tantamount to the butcher complaining his apron is dirty with blood. It's the nature of sales. Take it or leave it.
12-24-12: Rebelindiskyz Ladies and Gents: It is the art of negotiation! Btw, it does not have to be a reseller who is offer a low price. I look at it this way: I walk to into a Car Dealership to buy a new car. She/He tells me the price, $30, 000. I listen to the pitch and then I say $20, 000!
OK, would you listen to the pitch and then say $3000? Yes, that is how absurd some of these offers are. They don't offer you 60-80% of your asking price, I've had some offer 10-25% of my asking price. I've been buying and selling for over 10 years on Audiogon and over 20 years altogether, and there is no doubt in my mind that these silly offers have increased in the last few years.
I really don't mind, I don't get upset, I actually find a lot of them quite amusing. For me, it adds entertainment to what otherwise can become boring, ordinary exchanges.
Lately I get worse than lowball offers. I get offers and then they never come through with the cash. It happened to me twice in the last 2 weeks. That pisses me off!
I recently had to change my mind and renig on a prospective purchase of two mono amps that I have been looking for forever because of a tragic turn in my life that demanded my immediate attention and made it so I could not focus or afford the amps. The seller was first very upset when I backed out, but later sent his sympathy and understanding. Not the same as low offers but just thought I would say this.
For low offers, when I try to sell equipment I first, typically price at or below the current market value to ensure a quicker sale. So, typically I don't have much float on my price point for sale. So, I respond to the potential buyer that either my sale price is firm or counter with another price.
However, you all are aware of the art of negotiations. reading this subject post and subsequent responses, I noticed that many are acting as if they have never tried to purchase a car. Do you for one minute believe that dealers are actually listing the car for sale at the correct or lowest sale price? Of course not! So, you investigate what the sale price should really be by doing your homework. How much did the dealer actually pay for the car? Did the factory give the dealer some kickback incentives that if you knew about you could exploit in your negotiation? etc. there are many more. So, what makes me believe that the seller is listing their equipment here for a fair price and didn't escalate the price? There are just as many flippers on Audiogon as with any other site. They buy as low as possible and raise the price to very high prices and try to get as much as they can.
This low baller complaining goes both ways. I will pay only what I feel is a fair price and it is up to me to determine what that is. If I don't like the price (because I know the equipment isn't worth the listed price), I either walk away or offer something lower. That is not low balling in my opinion. The seller (many times me) can either accept the offer, negotiate something different or walk away also.
an item is worth what a person is willing to pay for it. It is really as simple as that. Look at the $150,000 cars out there. Or amps priced at $60,000 or higher. Speakers and other equipment also. Do you really feel they are worth that? and then look at the prices a year or so later on the used market for the same equipment. many times at least half of the price. So, we all know they weren't worth what the dealer was trying to sell them for. So, you negotiated a lower price. This isn't low balling, this is fair negotiations.
I'm pretty new to Audiogon and fairly new to high end audio, so I don't have a lot of experience here. I have bought a pair of Sennheiser HD650s here and I'm very happy with them. I think I got a good deal and I hope the seller was happy as well. (I must give him positive feedback soon!)
I am looking for an amp right now in the sub-$2000 ballpark. That means I will try to pay a little less for some amps that are/have become available if possible. I may/will offer $1900 to $2000 for amps that are being offered for $2200 to $2400. I'm not doing it because I'm a cheapskate; I'm doing it because I'm at my upper limit. I may really want that amp, but I just cannot pay more. That is not disrespect to the seller. Rather it is my reality.
If I someday make you an offer, I will try to be respectful, but I will quite likely try to get a lower price. If I can save a couple hundred today, I will have a couple hundred more when I am able to upgrade to a nice CD player.
BTW....this site is awesome! I'm so happy I found it.
This debate over who thinks low balling is OK and who doesn't is going to go on forever. My only comment is for those few who suggested listing their product for "Buy It Now" so they won't get the low ballers. That's not a good idea. Many here, including myself, won't just sell to anyone. While we entertain offers, we also get to see who is interested. I won't sell to someone who has a history of negative feedback or seems difficult to deal with. Happy Holidays!
1) There really are folks who seem to offer 30% or so below going rate as soon as the ad comes out.
2) On the other hand, things go fast, particularly good things that are less than $2000.00. This means that if you don't offer quickly, you lose. Plus, the seller doesn't always offer at a going rate price, or doesn't consider condition or age. So I've offered as much as 10% off asking right as a sale goes online. I wouldn't say it was low-balling, but for a product I'm buying based only on reviews, I need to buy for a price that lets me resell for the same price or so.
Separately, when I first started this hobby, I wasn't in a financial position keep pouring as much money as I'd like to into it - this means that I've needed to buy and sell in order to fund my hobby. I would buy things that a) I would like to hear in my system and b) I know I can sell for a few hundred more than I paid. Sometimes, I would see a consignment piece at a local dealer that I knew would go for much more on Audiogon and made a little money that way, too. Nonetheless, I don't consider myself a "flipper" as half of my motivation was to hear the component I would buy in my system, and often I'd find that I'd keep it for years before reselling.
So in short, if you get an offer that's too low in your mind, just "cheerfully ignore" it. Some folks get offended if you ask them to absorb PayPal, some folks price their goods knowing that they'll come down by several hundred dollars....
There is also a cultural aspect to trading. New Englanders tend to want to get their asking price. As a New Yorker, the asking price is a starting point for negotiation. This is not disrespectful, but cultural. I once was looking at a house in New England, and the owners would not budge on the price. A month later I got a call from the realtor saying that they had lowered their price. I made another offer, and the realtor said 'why are you doing that, they just lowered their price.' I replied that they just gave me a new starting point. We finally reached a deal. If they had negotiated from their original price, I would have paid more. Some people just won't pay retail even if that means the asking price on Audiogon. .
I'm not insulted by lowball offers, but I do wonder about outrageously low offers within minutes of a posting with a low price (eg, 40% off an item listed at the lowest price ever on the 'Gon). Kind of weird: does the buyer expect the seller to panic within minutes?
It is another matter, when an item has been up a month or two, since there is some indication that the market will not bear the asking price. At this point, I think it perfectly appropriate to offer a "would you consider" reduced price, and I sometimes do this myself.
Perhaps the trigger happy lowballers could exercise a bit of patience; that way, they wouldn't seem so ridiculous, and they might find a deal.
If someone is selling a second hand, 10-year-old amp that they used for 5-years for 50% off current list price, and I offer them 70% off current list price is that a low-ball offer?
I'm guessing they paid 50% list off when they bought it used. They must have gotten some use out of the amp over the past 5 years they owned it. Obviously my assumptions could be wrong, but I think they are pretty close. In any case, if they think my prce is too low, they do not have to sell it to me.
Can't justify a buyer offering hundreds less, especially if the seller is asking a reasonable price for his item. If you truly want something, just offer the full price and you have secured it for yourself. On the other side of the coin I have noticed that some sellers are asking a ridiculous amount of money for their gear as if they were trying to retire tomorrow. Right now there is a McCormack DNA-1 with silver upgrade, the seller is asking over two thousand dollars for it. A few years back I was selling those for $900.00 to $1200.00 plus shipping.
This is just an observation on my part and truthfully a seller can ask any price he or she wants, don't mean you will get it. Or possibly as I stated above the selling price was inflated so when low offers come in the seller will get exactly the amount they secretly had in mind.
The truth is that Audiogon sellers "relative to other online auction sites" give very high starting prices. If you really want to sell something and want to see how much it is worth, put it in for $1 and see how much it goes for. I don't know what the non-selling auction percentage is on audiogon but it has to be quite high. I think this also has to do with the fact that many high end audio stores essentially use it as their online outlet. Meaning they are not offering "deals" just listing their inventory. We're in a recession, it's a buyer's market. It's not outrageous for a 10 year old piece of equipment to go for 80% of list price. You may think it's worth a lot, but when the market is saturated the price naturally should go down. I think people simply overvalue the worth of their equipment (which is natural) but if they were not afraid of the true value to the public they would just list if for $1 and see where it would sell (and it will sell this way) vs having the majority of auctions on this site simply time out.
Phd, I agree with you that prices have been going up lately. Maybe it's due to the lowballers, maybe it's due to Audiogon's high fees, maybe it's due to the weakening dollar, I don't know for sure. It makes me wish I had held on to some gear so that I could sell it now for more $$$. :)
As for Bigby and Invenio78, I see that you are rather new here, welcome. That being said, maybe you should be on the sellers side of the fence for a while before you start seller bashing. As I tell my adult children, it is easy to tell someone on the other side of the fence how they should be living, especially when you have not been on that side of the fence. As someone who has been both a parent and a child, a buyer and a seller, I am able to understand what it's like to live on both sides of the fence.
There are good people and bad people on both sides of the fence.
I was not trying to "seller bash", I apologize if it came off that way. Quite the contrary I think audiogon has a very respectable seller community. The point I was trying to make (and perhaps not clearly) was that used electronics in general devalue substantially over short periods of time. This goes for both consumer and audiophile electronics. How much is a used flat screen TV bought 10 years ago for $2000 worth today? Maybe $50. I know that high end gear holds value better, but I don't think an 80% depreciation of an electronics component over the course of 10 years is unreasonable. At the end of the day, it is the market that determines the value of items. The fact that the majority of items listed on Audiogon do not sell tells me that "overall" sellers are overpricing their goods. This is not inherently bad, but I think the data supports this conclusion. It's a careful balance of trying to make money vs trying to sell a product. I simply don't see many items starting at $1 (which would ultimately guarantee a sell at the community determined value) but rather many items on sale for minimal discounts that ultimately do not sell. Perhaps my interpretation is wrong but going through the listings most equipment listings do not have any bids on them despite being listed for extended amounts of time. Audiogon is (fortunately/unfortunately) more of an "outlet store" with moderate discounts than a true "auction house" where bidding starts very low and value is determined by the community. IMHO. I respect all other opinions however. :)
Yes I notice low ball offers a lot. What kills me is guys who make plenty of money and can afford to pay market price or there abouts still make stupid low ball offers. This happened to me about 3 years ago and it turned out to be a Doctor who lived in my hometown. It was my understanding he does this ALL the time. I refer to them as bottom dwellers but its part of buying and selling online I suppose.
@Invenio78, no harm done, no worries. I guess there is some misunderstanding here though. I've been here on Audiogon for well over 10 years, I NEVER considered Audiogon an "auction house". I have bought and sold many pieces of equipment over the years here, but never once did I put a piece for sale on auction. I've always placed ads. I found that I could always sell anything if I priced it aggressively enough.
Over the years though, I've found that patience is a virtue when buying AND selling. I may still 'jump' on an item if the price is right, but that is very rare (thankfully). I do realize that if I was desperate I could sell everything I have starting an auction at $1. However, that could also be a big mistake. I've seen quite a few people regret that decision over the years. Because this hobby is about being in the right place at the right time. Starting an auction at $1, you are "forcing" the time issue.
Many times I've turned down the early lower offers and found someone that really wants what I have weeks or even months later. Sure, it doesn't always work, occasionally I overestimate the price of something and wind up selling it months later at a steep discount, but this is very rare. I've also sold stuff that was snapped up within 30 minutes and wondered if I should have priced it higher. That's part of the "game".
The bottom line is, as you say "the market determines the value of an item". The only audio gear that I've seen for 80% off at 10 years old though is either digital gear or phono cartridges. I don't think you can compare the gear here to televisions, because for the most part, the stuff here has a longer lifespan. My current amp turns 20 years old this year, I've never had a 20 year old TV. Vintage gear is popular in this hobby, I can't say the same for television. :-)
Jmcgrogan2, I too wish I would of held onto some of the gear I've sold in the past. At that time I always thought if I let it go I can always buy it back. It turns out that this is not so easily done anymore because for some reason more people are hanging to what they have and when it rarely does come up for sale the seller is asking a premium price.
The seller should charge what HE thinks he should get. The buyer can always buy new. If people want to go by blue book, let them get blue book to help them find it. Put the price in as firm. It's not a buyers market due to a recession. If that was true, the buyers could afford to buy new. If the buyer is trying to take advantage of that situation, then I string them along for a few weeks and they finally go away.
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