I just now found this out running across this post that’s sad. bdp24 sometimes less is more, I been playing since a little kid and have always thought he was unique and awesome. He’s doing more than you think he plays with his wrists and I love how he plays the snare with no hihats and the cool sound he gets with his china as a crash cymbal. I got my first Gretch kit because of him and them being Jasper shells bought some Camco’s and Fibes. The stones will never sound the same just like Led Zeplin could never pull it off with out Bonaham. i
Yes a big loss. He was the only grown up in the band. But being a R&R band you don't need grown ups. He took his music seriously, not himself or the whole "Rock and Roll Lifestyle" (check out the Cake song of same name) I think I will go take a listen to some Stones right now.
Oh yeah, I could have gone to see Steel Wheels and the next tour here in Philly but turned down the tickets. At this point they were playing the largest stadiums in the US and even tho i was only in my 30's, I had no interest in that.
@goofyfoot Start Me Up!! I saw them live in 1981, it was the Tattoo You tour and I was in college at Syracuse. I didn't even buy the album. Actually, now I don't think the album is that bad.
lowrider, I have to agree about Mick Taylor. My original favorite was Begger’s Banquet. That was until I heard Exile. Between The Buttons is in there somewhere but it has to be the Decca Mono pressing. I’m guessing that you’ve seen them live which I never have.
@goofyfoot I'd have to say Sticky Fingers, Let it Bleed, and Exile. I love the tunes, and I'm also a Mick Taylor fan. I think he and Keef made magic together.
I'll also throw in Some Girls as a fav. I took the train into Manhattan to buy the record at Discomat, a large record shop which had crazy low prices.
I've been streaming The Stones every day since Charlie's passing. It takes me back to my teenage years playing drums in my garage band. A couple takeaways have been how Charlie always played what was needed, no more, no less. And the tone of his Gretch kit was always perfect, I'm not too familiar with the music or type of production after the 90's. Another takeaway having nothing to do with the band is how highly compressed remasters have ruined the purity of the drums. Deep, processed thumps from the kick drum and the lack of wood timbre does not make for enjoyable listening. I'm so pleased more of the Stones great albums are being remastered for the better.
Lastly, after some critical listening, I could hear Keef's solid background in the blues in almost everything he played. This and Charlie's signature style and sound are what defined the Stones for me.
On the same one you'll reside on if your lucky enough to hit 79 and hopefully not regret saying what you did on a memorial type post , on the eve of your 80th should karma come calling. Its a mans life.
Charlie was a pioneer in the early days of Rock. Way back, and for a few years in a row, he was voted #1 rock drummer by Playboy magazine. I loved his intros on a number of songs. His style fit the music perfectly, and that’s the job of a good drummer. I love listening to Get Yer Ya Yas Out because of Charlie. Great Stuff and he was a musical drummer who came up with his own riffs.
Charlie has moved on to rock and roll Heaven,and the Stones will never be the same.Check out "Paint it Black",and "19th Nervous Breakdown", for some great drumming.
bdp24, A lot of drummers think that Jim Gordon is the best rock drummer of all time.
I grew up emulating more of the jazz drummers than the rock; Philly Jo Jones, Art Taylor, Paul Motian, and more recently Joey Baron.
Oddly enough, I'm currently experiencing Bob Will's and His Texas Playboys, The Tiffany Transcriptions. I think it was Louis Armstrong who said 'There's Only Two Types of Music, Good and Bad'.
Absolutely @gpgr4blu. Hal Blaine was my first favorite studio drummer, once I learned there was such a thing. I left out Jim Keltner, considering him an obvious member of the musical drummer fraternity. His playing on Randy Newman's early albums really raised the bar for me. He is Ry Cooder's first choice for recording. I saw and heard the two perform live together in Little Village, an amazing experience.
To hear a drum solo that is not only technically sophisticated, but also very musical, give a listen to the two short little drum breaks in "Beyond The Sea" by Bobby Darin. The drummer is Don Lamond, who had been in Woody Herman's band. Fantastic!
It's not well known, but The Band's pianist/singer Richard Manuel plays drums on about half the song's on the s/t brown album, including "Up On Cripple Creek" and "Rag Mama Rag". His playing is a little stiff and slightly awkward, but the parts he created for the songs are "signature" parts, very important to the feel and character of the songs. Charlie Watts was also a little stiff, but had a more identifiable sound and style than do many more technical players. Which is more valuable?
Emitt Rhodes started out on drums (in L.A. group The Palace Guard, while still in High School) switching to guitar when he formed The Merry-Go-Round. He plays all the instruments and sings all the vocals on his debut album, later employing drummer Jim Gordon on his second and third. When I recorded with Emitt in the late-90's (he was engineering and producing), he told me Gordon was the best musician he ever worked with. Not just best drummer, but best musician. A deeply, deeply musical drummer. Bobby Whitlock (Delaney & Bonnie, Derek & The Dominos) has said he considers Gordon the best Rock 'n' Roll drummer of all-time. I don't know, Earl Palmer was awfully good ;-) .
gpgr4blu, Hal Blaine was another drummer who brought out the musicians that surrounded him in the studio. John Von Ohlen was a drummer for the Stan Kenton Band and taught at CCM and he always spoke about enhancing the melodic line. He started out playing the horn but switched later to drums. I always felt connected when a drummer new the harmonic structure two or three measures ahead.
When I saw Buddy Rich with his big band, I new what to expect and I was very entertained. When I saw Paul Motian with Paul Bley and Steve Swallow, I had no idea what to expect and I was awestruck. I’m thinking Charlie Watts may have more drum solos than Paul Motian, or at least it’s close.
Charlie's credentials as a drummer and human being speak for
themselves
I'm guessing to question his skills comes from a place of personal preference,
uninformed or both, as I cannot imagine anyone less likely to have haters than
Charlie Watts
If it's a perspective of uninformed, you're in for a treat if willing to invest
the time
He's not John Bonham, Neil Peart, etc and has never even played a drum solo,
but says he admires those that can and do
He's not classically trained and tends to play more by gut instinct and what
the song needs
Yet he's owned the drummer's seat for nearly 60 years of what's commonly (and
arguably) referred to as The Rolling
Stones the Greatest Rock & Roll Band in the World
The tenure alone is admirable, but whether you like them, hate them or
somewhere in between the fact of the matter is, the evolution of the product
stands alone
Granted, these days, it's more the business of The Rolling Stones than the band
The Rolling Stones but an equally important chapter in their storied evolution
Back to Charlie.....
Start with Paint It Black, the left channel carries the drum track and it's
very accessible for your listening pleasure
If you don't want to listen to more after Paint It Black, then it's just not
your cup of tea
Another option, read the liner notes of the book Sympathy For The Drummer and
Why Charlie Watts Matters, by Mike Edison
Mike is an author, editor and musician. Formerly editor of High Times and Screw
magazines, his writing has appeared in the Huffington Post, the Daily Beast and
The New York Observer, among others. As a drummer, he has opened for bands
including Sonic Youth, Sound Garden and the Ramones
He describes song after song in prolific detail, the complex intricacies and
uniqueness of what Charlie is playing. And does so in layman’s terms that
is engaging and informative not over the top technical speak or music theory
that would escape most readers
If you're looking for an endorsement from his contemporaries go no further
than Ginger Baker, who claims lots of drummers can rock but the only drummers that can rock and roll are him
and Charlie
I'm not trying to sway anyones opinion or swing the pendulum to favor Charlie, he's one of many many wonderful drummers and just wanted to share some fun facts
Is he on the Mount Rushmore of drummers, probably not for most but he should be in the conversation
bdp24, Yes, there's certainly no problem with sounding idiosyncratic where it applies to rock/pop/jazz, etc.. Playing in a rock band isn't like singing a Bach Aria. And the impromptu nature of 'Exile On Main Street' gives it a charm not found on any of their other studio albums. Additionally, I always appreciated the chemistry between Nicky Hopkins and the band.
When Exile came out reviewers (generally letdown after the Sticky Fingers studio precision) commented how Charlie was the glue that held it together. They were right, and eventually came around to how great the other playing was also. He was a capable of metronomic rhythm but played around with the timing enough to keep the songs interesting (the two-beat tap on a cymbal at the end of Dead Flowers is a great example of his stylish virtuosity). He will be missed.
Charlie didn’t have to be "perfect", or technically advanced. In fact, if he was he would sound out of place in a band with Keith Richards and Mick Jagger. Like the often-denigrated Ringo Starr, he was the right drummer for the group. As was Keith Moon for The Who. It is their trademark style that made their band’s what they were. At least Led Zeppelin realized Bonham couldn’t be replaced, and called it a day, as The Who should have. IMO.
My tastes run in a different direction: Roger Hawkins (Muscle Shoals studio drummer in The Swampers. The actor they got to play him in the new movie about Aretha Franklin---Respect---looks just like him. Keltner said in a Modern Drummer interview that he wished he played more like Hawkins. A FANTASTIC drummer!), Jim Gordon (Delaney & Bonnie, Derek & The Dominos, Clapton’s solo debut, All Things Must Pass, Traffic---along with Roger Hawkins, Spector productions. I acquired one of his Camco sets after he was sent up the river for killing his mother with a hammer. Beat her to death with it.), Levon Helm, D.J. Fontana (you had better know who he is ;-), Harry Stinson (Marty Stuart’s drummer in his band The Fabulous Superlatives, also a great harmony singer.), Kenny Buttrey (Dylan, Neil’s Harvest.), Buddy Harman (Roy Orbison, Patsy Cline, The Everly Brothers, Elvis, Brenda Lee, Tammy Wynette. That’s him on "Stand By Your Man", his drumming the epitome of taste, economy, subtlety, and most importantly musicality. As various Jazz greats have said: The notes you don’t play are as important as those you do.), Jim Christie (Lucinda Williams, Dwight Yoakam.), a lot of others most of ya’ll have never heard of.
I like drummers who "play the song". Those who listen for what a song needs, and play THAT, rather than what they think will impress other drummers. You know---gratuitous displays of empty technique. Musically inappropriate over-playing, way too busy. Drummers are generally kinda stupid (ever heard Carmine Appice speak? Oy.), present company and those named above excluded.
One of my favorite musician stories is the one told me by Evan Johns, who worked off-and-on with guitar virtuoso Danny Gatton (nicknamed The Humbler by Vince Gill.). It goes as follows:
Danny, speaking to his new drummer after the first set of his maiden live gig: "Hey, ya know all that fancy sh*t you play?"
frogman, Agree with your assessment. I had heard the jazz thing he did, and it wasn't very good. I really didn't mean to be a hair-splitting critic of the guy. He was a good fit for the Stones, personality wise and of course the way he played. I think his simplicity was brilliant on songs like Brown Sugar and Paint it Black, two that come to mind. He did his own thing, and it is sad to see him gone.
I think Charlie Watts was a fine R&R drummer and probably the perfect drummer for The Rolling Stones. Solid time keeper with just enough looseness to give the band their distinctive rhythmic vibe. As has been pointed out a musician’s important strengths are not defined by speed and technical virtuosity, but by the ability to contribute to the whole of the ensemble in that ensemble’s style. He did that very well.
Having said all that, while much is sometimes made of Watts having been a Jazz drummer, a good Jazz drummer he was not. He may have been inspired or influenced by Jazz drummers, but he was not at home in that genre nearly to the degree that he was in R&R. I heard his touring Jazz tentet in NYC on two occasions several years ago featuring some really good Jazz players including the great Peter King on saxophone and it was clear that Watts was the weak link in the ensemble. In that context, rather monotonous playing without the required split second reaction to what the soloists were doing. Hard to do it all.
My set of drums are old (from the late '60s) Gretsch white pearl. My son uses them now, along with two or three other Gretsch sets. The sound is oh so wonderful.
Pat Metheny said in his recent (fantastic interview btw) with Rick Beato, something to the effect that, a drummer is the most important person in a band. RIP Charlie.
Like Charlie, once I heard a Gretsch drumset, that was it for me! Levon Helm also played Gretsch, including in The Last Waltz. A beautiful black diamond pearl-finished set. A have a set in bdp, and one in Brazilian walnut. Both with 24" bass drums. Hence "bdp24" ;-) .
Charlie Watts...I would consider myself a moderate Stones fan; they've always been there and I have many of their albums, but I wouldn't put them up there with my musical heroes.
Anyway, I am sad to hear about Charlie because he was the Stones' Rock of Gibralter. He's been there forever. He was a constant. I've always liked him & respected his talent.
What is starting to get scary, and sad in another way, is that the legends who are passing on now are not our parents' or older siblings' heroes, but ours. Every musician I love is well over 70. I know 80 is the new 60 but still. It's hard.
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