Amp repair cost — is this right?

@joecasey I've no problem with profit. In the example I used, feel free to give your money away. I work hard for mine. 

@ptss I ended up hiring a tiler and plumber. Pulled a permit and did the whole thing to a better spec for $9k.

Hi jnehma1, 
Agree, good thread. You generated insightful commentary from some of this site's very knowledgeable and experienced members. Good information for all. When I joined Audiogon 12 years ago this type of behavior and interaction was commonplace. 
Charles 

"I already know what the amp is worth to me."

Why exactly are you asking us if $1300 repair is worth to you?

Another +vote for AYRE customer service.
Happy Listening!

Have them ship it back, sell it, and get something else on the used market.
Not adviseable to spend even $500 to swap out the caps. 
Here is your amp
https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=ALeKk02MceG65SQYDS2ndUQE1nLmoHvcfg:1603415550268&source=univ...


Here is my Defy7 with 12 new Mundorf caps @ $50 each + a  bunch of F&T's.. The tech guy changed the small can Nichicon's which really sound exactly like the old ones = did not need changing. 
also changed the plate resistors to Takman Rey,,all cost about $800, well worth it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpVCbHX6jWU&t=355s
Tech guy did NOT remove the board,, he sniped leads and solder to lead tips.. Which makes the Defy now, unsellable, But I have no intentions to ever sell anyway. 


Tech geek's , some are honorable, others are scam artists, Which is why i preach the message, always buy a  amp that is built like a  tank and with high quality components.
Take the $200 ship fee loss ,
sell the amp and move on.
 There are plenty of amps on the used market. 
 Take the hit and move on. 

700 at most. 1500 is gouging. I got a krell ksa completely redone for 650. That’s a beast. Btw, lumber has doubled in 6 months. That’s my line of work. 

Pyramid Audio will quote you a price of $1300 to replace just the power supply filter caps in a Levinson 33x series amplifier, so, yes, the quote you got is not unreasonable.

FWIW it took me the better part of a weekend to replace the damaged filter caps in my AR 100.2. The 8 caps cost less than $75... but there were parts in the way that had to be removed (and replaced) and some disassembly to get to the caps. There is no way I would have charged less than $1,000 parts and labor to do that job as it took a total of 6 hours start to finish, which does not include the time spent to plan the repair and catalog and order the parts. 

It is more work than it appears.

I think this is the wrong question.  I think the right question is "Is this repair shop honest?"  If the answer is "yes" then the price is reasonable; if the answer is "no" then the price is not reasonable.  The brake job analogy is imperfect, because there is a "book" that tells all shops how many hours of labor are involved.  
Did the repair shop break down the cost in terms of cost of each cap, cost of various parts of the labor (remove old caps, replace with new caps, test, etc.)?  That should give you some idea.  If they did not you might want to ask them to do so.  You don't know how much labor is involved but you can find out what the caps would cost.

@georgehifi @mozartfan both of you referenced the a308 integrated amp. Mine is just an amp, and the internal layout looks completely different

FWIW to those that brought it up, I called and the shop said they only use Nichicon, Vishay, and ELNA caps

@grannyring @georgehifi   make a really good point: some equipment is easy to work on, some is hard. Parts cost may be swamped by labour costs, if you want it done even half right.

Ralph @atmasphere  is probably judging by his own good design, which is easy to open, easy to repair.

Large caps are expensive.  I would guess the cost of the components alone would be 300-400 bucks.

Changing caps is a very labor intensive task.  Every board must be disconnected, unscrewed and the old caps must be de-soldered and new ones soldered and the boards re-inserted and rewired again.

I am not very surprised.  It is kinda like changing the timing belt on a car.  The belt is a few bucks but the labor is daunting.

I've been down this road.  I had a pair of Levinson No.20 amps (over 20 years old) that both failed due to capacitor issues.  I contacted one of the shops that does both warranty service for Levinson and works on older units.  The person I talked to was very knowledgeable about the units, and in fact had two pairs of the same model in for recapping.  The cost, excluding shipping, was at least $3500.  More if other problems were found.  So $1300 for a single amp doesn't sound ridiculous.  I ended up selling the amps, unrepaired, to an electrical engineer who planned on repairing them himself.  I basically got the price I would have asked for the repaired units, minus the repair and shipping cost.  I think the buyer looked at it as a fun task with some cool equipment.  Everyone was happy, and I learned how expensive it is to fix amps.

Mine is just an amp, and the internal layout looks completely different

Just as bad as all the output transistors are attached to the side heatsinks, and all are bolted
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/0iU9BZNQ1_1LRwvGt1SJX9PgT8TkYLok8IVLMgxv_hljNxkEH3a2giXOW6tJ...

Cheers George

I recapped an Audire Tennendo about four years ago and the cost of the eight electrolytic capacitors in the power supply was over was over $450, so yes the quoted price you received doesn’t surprise me at all. 

For anyone owning, operating a brick and mortar operation, that fee could even be a financial loss considering ALL the overhead expenses. It could be a “loss leader”, written off as a word of mouth advertising expense. 

OP
If the amp lasted 16 years it doesn’t owe you much at this point.  You could put a lot of money into it and then something else that is currently working and therefore not going to be fixed at this point might go bad soon.  I would make the 30 minute drive, pick it up, and sell it on eBay for parts, hope to recoup some of what you already spent, and then use the rest of the projected repair cost on a newer piece.  IMO, there hasn’t been that much development (except for the rise of Class D Amps) in amplification technology over the last few decades, and (this is personal, ymmv) MF amps were more known for grunt rather than finesse).  Change can be good

Well worth the recap you will not be sorry. I have had some popular "High End Amps" recapped. For that model the price is right.

I speak with some knowledge since i’ve designed many commercial amps, and recently re-capped, mostly as a favor, a dozen or so ~30 year old units that i know the owners of and were sold under my own label(s). Its a total PITA.

Just an aside, i received some bogus (Chinese counterfeit) caps and had to do 2 a 2nd time!

Some caps can be very expensive, large, high voltage computer grade caps can be $30-70 each. Fortunately it looks like that unit (per the pic provided above) has more common snap-in radial ’lytics that are vastly cheaper. (like 1/4 or less of that, "depending")


Georgehifi, with a pic, paints a reasonable story. I think the price *may* be a little high, but here’s the thing. every amp is different to work on - some come apart easily, some less so. There are several hours on each end of this job before caps are removed or replaced.

Without the specifics answers are meaningless. I would guess, nothing more, 6-10 hours total and $100-250 in parts. I didn’t bother to look for and count the smaller caps.

So was the price high? Likely somewhat. Was it crazy? not really. Its a messy job. What do you pay your tech, or at a small firm, maybe an engineer?

G

I recently went thorough this repair business myself, so a word from experience.

I took several pieces to a local shop, STEREO FIXERS, who basically took a lot of money from me and did nothing. 

In desperation, I then sent my Luxman pre-amp to the only company that said it had the expertise to fix it--MUSIC TECHNOLOGY in VA.  I called them a few MONTHS after sending it and they had not gotten to it yet.  Finally, he calls and says, basically, he cannot fix it and sent me a bill for $300.00+, which I had to pay to get it back.  It worked for 3 minutes and failed. 

When I left him a bad review, he whined about how good they were and how long they had been in business, etc., so I took it down as a matter of pity on my part.

Fast forward.  I bought an SP-6B preamp and was having some issues with it and my self-built (in 1974) Hafler 500.  I took both to the local shop, paid the $25.00 "look-at" fee, and he fixed the pre-amp--had to replace 9 parts, which he returned to me--and adjusted the bias on the amp.  Total bill was less than $100.00 for everything, and he guarantees his work.  IT all took a week in turnaround even though I told them I was in no hurry.

As a former dealer, I can tell you that fixing broken stuff is a huge pain and always has been.  The local shop, SOUTH FLORIDA SPEAKER REPAIR in Lake Worth, FL, that did the awesome work for me is amazing.  I suggest you send your item to them and see what the price might me, or, send them the paperwork and let them price the job.  It may not be less, but you will get guaranteed work.  OR, it may be a LOT LESS, and you still get guaranteed work.

Cheers!

I understand every amp is different, but I had a Rowland 112 power amp recapped in 2019 for about $400 plus shipping.  I was told Jeff did the work himself and there were other minor updates.  Rowland even gave me a new shipping box.

@teo_audio:
$100 to take it apart, remove the PCB, remove all the caps, buy new ones, put them in, pre-test, re-assemble, final test?
If so I will hire you as a tech tomorrow :-)
G

@jnehma1  Did you see my second post on this thread? Because the filter caps are snap caps (which are a lot less expensive) I revised my thinking about a fair price downwards. I was figuring at least $800 for parts but the snap caps will only be about $100; so I'm thinking $500-$700 tops.

@atmasphere yes I did see it, thank you for the feedback.

@mahler123 not sure where this 30 minute drive thing came from. The shop is many states away and would probably be a 14 hour drive each direction

That is highway robbery, depending which caps and size they use 
Nichicon super through would be near top of the line ,Nippon has a top series also ,as well as a few others , ask for a list of brand and cap uf sizes it sounds about $400 too high ,the quality was not that high to begin with buy something)NG else and rebuilt Thst 

Lots of uninformed opinions here....

Even before discussion that different caps would yield different costs and that design and layout are labor factors (I guarantee most here are not familiar with the 308s layout) people were barking out verdicts.

Just the choice of Caps will wildly change the price! You can buy caps that costs hundreds each if you choose!

The answer to your question is a firm... IT DEPENDS!

I can say from direct experience that I had an MF A5 integrated modded for about this price (with better caps, components and the results were stunning).

Please understand that there are a lot of people here who don’t understand that people need to make a living... If everything is done at or near cost... It’s called a hobby.

Sorry, thought I saw in a post that the repair shop was half hour.  I would still just put it on eBay for parts.  Maybe the shop can give you something for it

You can barely replace an internal fuse in a half hour!

Seriously?

I need to write a book of all cases that I have dealt with repair shops in the last 40 years. Here are just a few typical cases in my real life. A jumbo TV failed to turn on that costs $500 to replace a pair of $9 chips. Refrigerator company charges $260 to replace a $2 switch. It costs $500 to paint a corrosion furnace cap. Water softener company charges $500 to just dump the old salt and put a bag of salt that costs $15. A heating company charge $395 for a $25 heat sensor... and last but not least, a prominent high end company charges $900 to replace a 5-cent belt. They're all claims the values of "years of experience".
You're getting stuck with this service shop because you have spent $115 to ship your unit. If you want it back, you will need to pay at least $100 diagnostic fee plus $150 shipping and handling on top of your $115. Looking for another repair shop wont save you a considerable amount of money. The actual job to replace 8 capacitors is less than 30 minutes, and the cost of 8 capacitors is less than $100. The remaining is profit or "rip off" fee. Good news is you're not the first one or the last one. If you're really into the world of "high end", learn soldering technique and use
YouTube "how-to" video clips.

Hello jnehma1,

I too been at this point in this hobby of ours. Stuff breaks, or is old and is in need for a total overhaul.

Due to some experience (the hard way) I noticed very high price differences from technician to technician. So $105 - $12,- an hour. I implore you to find a good TV repair guy with a love for audio (I don't know if it's a gueranteed succes formula, but I was lucky and paid 12, - /hr and the guy knew everything) maybe you can call and Google around, but search actively

I also became aware of the much important part and that is: different personalities from tech guy to tech guy. And you have to deal with them (Personalities) 

I always thought in the line of. You want an overhaul, it would cost X amount. If you want extra it will cost x amount extra. But some Techs are not willing to do your bidding (mods)  (want the best 'subjectively' ) Some work very clean, some work very fast. Some will have a outspoken opinion of your problem, some will rip you off with adding too much hours. And sometimes you got to wait very very long. And some don't know what they are doing

My solution is I use different techs for different problems/repairs/overhaul

That said 1300 is a lot. I overhauled my Classé CA-400 four weeks ago for $830,- and even then I was thinking mmm. But the work is done stellar so.  That is the price of admission 

Re. Phil’s response “The actual job to replace 8 capacitors is less than 30 minutes, and the cost of 8 capacitors is less than $100. The remaining is profit or "rip off" fee...”

World Class ridiculous statement...and gives great insight into why brick and mortar and skilled techs are becoming a thing of the past.

Ask these posters to do their jobs for free and see what response you get.


Ingnorance.

If you categorically refer to profit as “ripoff fee”  I can’t help you.

There are too many in this world that want something for nothing.  

My Krell KSA 100s cost me 1250.00 It will be good for another 25 years!

Hello jnehma1.  You might inquire about what kind of replacement parts they are planning to use. Delund capacitors can run hundreds of dollars each. Nice Mundorfs easily run $15-50 each. Don't settle for anything less than Mundorfs. Still, the labor seems high. BUT, can you replace it with a new amp for that kind of money? Odessy, NuPrime, Parasound do make nice amps in the $1000-2000 range. If you love the amp, I'd say go for it. If you don''t, let it go and write off the $115 to ship it as the cost of "education & experience." Life is full of decisions; this one isn't life or death. Happy Listening.

I have a local guy for repair.

I replaced around 45 caps with Nichicons, a few resistors and two bridge rectifiers in my Threshold T-200 for less than 100.00 in parts from Mouser and Digikey.

I am currently in a similar dilemma of spending some money for a tech bench repair, if it is ok for me to talk about myself and my own situation, without offending the op. My as new and tweaked ADA PF 2501 power amp needs a fuse holder repair. One day awhile ago, I was installing an upgraded 10 amp power supply fuse ( yes, I hear improvements with fuses ) from the exterior rear of the amp chassis. As I screwed the new fuse back in, the fuse holder broke off from the circuit board. The amp seems to need a full disassembly to get to this board, beyond what I am capable of doing. It might not be rocket science to a good tech, but in my estimation, will will take several hours of labor. I really find this amp to be a sleeper ( meaning I like it a lot ), but it is not necessarily the best amp I own, so it is just sitting, covered in plastic, in a corner. These amps do not sell for much, and ADA recently closed their doors. So the question to myself is, should I or shouldn’t I, have it repaired. I found a good tech in my area, courtesy of another member here, but still have not decided to even bring it to this tech ( for an estimate ), as I am imagining the cost. Not the money, but the investment in the actual piece. BTW, I spoke about this before on another thread, and mentioned, I never saw another fuse holder mounted to a circuit board, in this manner, as the ADA ( I have 2 other ADA amps, and they are the same layout ). Anyway, that is my story, and I apologize. Enjoy, be well and stay safe. Always, MrD.

@mrdecibel no need to try to stir the pot... You're talking about yourself yes, but at least the topic is related, so have at it. I was pointing out that people were bringing up completely unrelated things like bathroom remodels or completely esoteric discussions about profit

Due to some experience (the hard way) I noticed very high price differences from technician to technician. So $105 - $12,- an hour.

A tech working out of his basement is going to be less expensive but he'll be more than $12.00/hour (unless he's doing it as a labor of love)- that bit is fantasy. But if we are talking about a shop, a shop has overhead like lighting, heat, rent, phones, etc. That is why almost any shop is going to be at least $80.00/hour, otherwise they can't pay the bills (including paying the technicians)!

That's a big number for the work. If at all possible, I would try to get some other estimates. I realize there is a point of diminishing returns because the more you ship it around, the less likely you are to save money elsewhere.

jnehma1,
I agree with Ralph in that a good shop needs to charge more to make a profit. I go by reputation, and if you find a good tech, the money spent is worth it for the piece of mind. 
I haven't been following this thread, but I would say that if you love this amp for what it is, and you intend to use it, then go ahead and invest in the repair if the tech is someone you can trust. I am fortunate to have a great tech that I trust, and I have spent more money upgrading my old Mac 2105 than most people would consider wise, but I love it, so it is right for me. 

@joecasey How exactly do you figure that? The bathroom guy clearly included labor costs of $50 per hour into his estimate, and $50 is a common hourly rate for a contractor. Reading comprehension is a good thing.

Reach out to bigkidz. He is on this forum and has been building and repairing amps for many years. His creations are top notch and his repair work is as good as it gets and very reasonably priced. He is currently working on one of my amps.

Had several amps recapped and re-biased by a qualified technician. The price quoted is within reason.

In Australia a "reputable repair shop" charges $115-$130aud per hr that $80-$90usd.
Like I said it would take a tech that "cares" about a day to do this properly heat soaked and biased back up. And then there’s the "quality" parts 16 x large power supply caps
https://www.newark.com/cornell-dubilier/381ll682m063a052/cap-6800uf-63v-alu-elec-snap-in/dp/54AH2158...
and around 20 smaller electrolytic caps.
THE PRICE SEEMS FAIR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cheers George

My bad @jeffreylee  everybody has to charge same rate.

As per @jafant and @whart, +1 for Bill Thalmann at Music Technology. He's low-key and knowledgeable, and did a fine job fixing my Pass INT-60. But be aware that he's extremely busy and backed-up -- my repair took two months. Can't comment on price as mine was a warranty job.

My 2 cents...

Even if the cost is $500, or so, above other quotes...

You mentioned that they use higher quality parts (than the originals) and if they do quality work you should be good to go for another 20 years.

This said (per your previous postings) you have rarely used the unit for years and years and years.

It would be a great amp to experiment with the new inexpensive Magnapan planers (or any other speaker requiring loads of power), but if you have no use for it why bother?

DeKay