I’m thinking of replacing my Triangle Comete EZ Bookshelf speakers with some 3 way speakers and seriously considering purchasing either 2nd hand or new.
My Triangles are good about 85% of the time, they’re somewhat forward, not very forgiving and lack that warm feeling of a 3 way.
My Triangles currently are on the company’s accompanying stands about 24” from the back wall and about 20” from the side walls and towed in projecting to my couch’s center. My room is 12’x 11’ w/ a 10’ ceiling, in addition the room has a tray in the center giving the center an additional 1’ of height. The floor is carpeted, no furniture other than a couch against one wall facing the equipment and record storage racks on the other wall, one window on the side wall is treated with thick room darkening curtains, basically the room sounds pretty good.
I’m running a Carver Crimson 275 Amp that’s hooked up to a Parasound ZPre3 Preamp. I mostly listen to vinyl on my Orbit U-Turn TurnTable equipped w/ a Ortofon Super OM20 Cartridge stylus that’s hooked up to an IFi Zen Phono Preamp.
I get that it’s a “Mid-Fi” set up but it lacks some warmth that I feel is a result of my 2 way’s extreme forward output.
Like I mentioned prior, my Triangles sound great at times, they just always have that in your face high going on, sometimes more than others.
I’m looking for 3way speaker recommendations in the $2k - $3k Ballpark that have a nice balance of Highs, Mids & Bass.
I know there’s some really great speakers out there and not to sound obnoxious, but please don’t recommend some great pair of used speakers that even if I spent six months full time searching the internet I won’t be able to locate.
Not into Klipsch,No B&W’s or Polks. My music tastes are Blues,Jazz, Big Band, Reggae & Classic Rock if that helps.
1st let me say I listen to all genres of music but picked out a few of what I felt were very forward sounding recordings from my collection to test the taming ability of these speakers.
1st. Track (Source: Flac Recording)
Mr. Blue Sky - Electric Light Orchestra. I chose this track due to it’s mixture of a strong bass line mixed with the vocal chorales, as well as the hitting of the bell done several times during the track.
The sound was much more relaxed and listenable, heard nuances I never heard before being was now not overwhelmed with treble, one issue I noticed was the bell was not as pronounced as with my Triangles, but the rest of the treble audio spectrum was perfect. It’s crazy how that high frequency is buffered and the rest gets through… Overall the very pleasant listing for a track off the hard drive.
2nd. Warren Zevon’s Live Stand In The Fire - LP.
I received this record just prior to switching out the speakers, played it once and was a total treble mess on the Triangles, unlistenable and figured it’s a sell on my next visit to my local record store. Well the Silver 300’s made it a totally listenable and quite enjoyable listening and wow I could have traded away a great album. Made me wonder, how many other great albums I ridded myself of being I thought they were horrible recordings ?
3rd. Another Treble Mess … Roger Hodgeson’s Solo LP, “Hai Hai”
I’m a Huge Supertramp Fan …
Note: Side one of this LP is great, Side 2, man all I can say is some woman must of ripped this guy’s heart out and just too depressing to listen to more than once, but Side 1 is very Roger Hodgeson if you like that Supertramp sound.
It made this LP magical to listen to actually traded overwhelming treble to depth & warmth…Perfect Highs with no Clipped Distortion or Ear Drilling …. Amazing !
LP’s like my numerous John Mayall stuff, James Cotton LP’s, John Klemmer LP’s, Savoy Brown LP’s, Louis Armstrong LP’s, Glen Miller LP’s, Miles Davis LP’s, Papa John Creach LP’s and the many other albums from my eclectic collection of all genres that I had no issues with prior, all sound Fantasic on the 300’s… Just a very comfortable listen, but I can hear why some very treble hungry listeners may need a more forward speaker. I myself would rather a more consistent listening experience.
I did notice these speakers do not take well to you adjusting the tone control, maybe it’s they’re still in the break in period, but they really like to be left as they are, which is fine with me, but when needed they will accept no more than a nudge, a notch or two on the treble but thats it.
Compared to the Triangles, the sound stage is nice but not as far reaching beyond the outer side of the cabinets. Magical in the center, but not getting as much 3D effect as the Triangles. i do have a small room (11 x 12), so with my seating arrangements, the sweet spot pretty much hits my whole couch.
The Silver 300’s play well with tubes (Carver Crimson 275 Amp w/ Tung Sol KT 120’s) and they really like vinyl & streaming but I wasn’t knocked out with CD playback, possibly my cd player, an old Sony ES 5 disc Carousel, not really what I’d say you’d want judge any speakers by, but to be truthful, if I played a half dozen CD’s in the past year that would be a lot and really see no need to upgrade.
I plan on auditioning other speakers not in my home but at various local hifi stores, but gotta tell ya, these 300’s set the bar pretty high meeting my listening desires and will be hard to beat for the money.
Wow ! Only 3 days into the home trial and so far the Monitor Audio Silver 300’s are checking all the boxes and sounding better each day ! Still in the break in period but these just may be keepers…👍
Really a sensational speaker, my set up never sounded so good, really has become quite a comfortable listening experience.
This is not a sales pitch, just observations from my listening experience so far and how these speakers have addressed the forward output I was tolerating from my previous speakers. If you haven’t given these speakers a listen, highly recommend doing so and I certainly can hear why they’ve received the awards and accolades they have.
I’ve had the Comete EZ’s for 3 years now, tried every position possible… Just a Very Bright Speaker… Room has good acoustics, I know the room inside out,I’ve done bass crawls, have tried with 3 different AVR receivers (Marantz, Sony ES & Yamaha), & 2 different tube amps, measured levels with my sound meter, etc., and pretty much too forward for my liking. The speakers are great like I said in my post about 85% of the time…The imagery & sound stage at times can feel like a near religious 3D experience, but just can’t seem to tame that tweeter, more forward than I like. It’s like there’s no consistency as to when it’s going to be fatiguing or not.
My only concern at this point is will I miss that forwardness in my new speaker choice? As for now, kinda looking forward to a little warmer of a sound.
Hey if you’re interested, my set is White Gloss in “MINT” Condition with the matching Triangle Stands…have all the original boxes, paperwork, etc., We can talk…
If your Comete's are toe'd in aimed at your listening position try placing them ruler flat straight ahead, measure the front inner corner distance and ad approximately one half - two inches to the rear inner corner distance.
Use a wheeled office chair to determine your preference for listening position distance.
I've been using seven Comete ES in my home theater. Bob Carver Crimson KT 120 mono's are driving my Avalon Eidolon's.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I don't think you understand. There area select few audiophiles that have completely((well actually Caveat, we employ woofers as bass up to 1600hz and tweets 10khz) but xover low sens speakers as the main act. We are The WBer fanatics. Vandersteens Wislon, Tektons, Dali, Sonus Faber, Tannoy;s, These are others hold no interest for us. Its not all fq's we are after, its the quality of the midrange we are seeking.
Folks aim higher Why don't most advanced Top hi end companies seeking low coloration, great resolution,less loss of whats on the recording manufacture a box speaker as a flagship? simple answer they don't. A Box speaker that makes Frank sound like the cows are mooing along with him wont cut it at a higher level . Even a broken clocks right twice a day box speaker can fly under the radar if you avoid playing that tune. Want your stomach to churn? Try playing Ray Brown soul of the bass or Fairfield Four Standing in the Safety Zone this stuff is awesome when right! Most advanced speakers are also Hi End expensive. Yet still less cabinet ringing designs are more expensive to build then a box.Individual drivers each in their own dedicated enclosures, aligned and optimized gives us a more sophisticated performance and that highly desirable disappearing act. Fortunately companies like Vandersteen make affordable full range designs with great drivers ,dedicated enclosures saving money where it counts by hiding its stealth
enclosures grill wrapped over frame allowing them to custom network their unique time coherent crossovers to 1/10th of a DB and still Made in USA. When tilted back set
up correctly in my opinion quite easily obsolete the box.*JohnnyR Vandersteen dealer NJ *
Regarding the KLH 5 three position optional attenuation, it is not a gimmick, and purposed for your type of problem, i,e, the last sentence:
"
In addition to upgrading its drivers, Geist overhauled the M5’s crossover, a 13-component network that uses iron-core inductors and Mylar capacitors. "The crossover is all 2nd order, 12dB/octave," Geist explained. "The low-pass woofer and high-pass midrange cross over at about 380Hz, low-pass midrange and high-pass tweeter at 2850Hz. The crossover is comprised of four inductors, four capacitors, [and] five resistors. Three of the resistors are used in the attenuation circuit for the switch located on the back panel."
Taking different-sized rooms and varying acoustics into consideration, Geist incorporated a three-position attenuator switch (marked "LO, MID, HI") on the M5’s backside (above a pair of gold-plated binding posts), a holdover from the original M5—sort of.
"The switch attenuates/decreases output above 400Hz," Geist explained. "I’m not a huge fan of attenuators on loudspeakers because of the affect they have on voicing of the loudspeaker. So, I repurposed the attenuator switch to deal with difficult room acoustics. The amount of attenuation is relatively small (0, –1.5dB, –3dB), over a broad frequency range. The idea is to pull some excess energy out of an overly bright listening room."
Goldenear Tritons- many favorable reviews Tekton - great sound at it’s price point, but rather largest and unusual looking Monitor Audio- great sound up and down their product line, many positive reviews, easier to find used
I listened to upper models of these companies and they give satisfying sound top to bottom
Thanks to all who responded to the post, some great suggestions and I reseached every one 👍
And so the journey begins… 🔊
I ordered a pair of Monitor Audio Silver 300’s with a 30 Day Home Trial to see how it sounds in my room and if there will be any synergy with my equipment.
If you want to stay with a bookshelf speaker, The Music Room (TMRAudio.com) has a new pair of ELAC "Uni-Fi Reference UBR62's for $999.98 (retail is $1200). This is one of the few 3 way bookshelf speakers that I know of.
There are 3 pair of used REVEL "Performa F 206's ranging from $1850 - 2150. Retail was $3500; but, I think they've recently increased to $3750. When I was auditioning speakers a few years ago, I heard these side by side with the Focal Kanta # 2's, which retail for $10,000. I thought the Revel's were 95% as good as the Focal's for 1/3 of the price. Two of the three Revel's are the black lacquer finish and the other one is walnut; and, I think 1 of the 3 listings requires a local pickup.
You might also consider the Monitor Audio "Silver 300's." they retail for $2200. The only used pair out there now are going for $1,000; but, the seller is in Arizona and he requires a local pickup. Good luck!
If you listen to just music and that’s all I would look into pro speakers and pa amps, for music that configuration can’t be beat by home hifi even at the same price points. Now if you watch shows and movies also you have to think hard what you want more near silent operation or some fan noise with pro equipment, I’ll say this listening at a moderate level of volume the fan noise you do not hear at all, I have crown amps xls 1502 x 3, xls 2502 x 2 and an xti 6002 paired to two Cerwin Vega xls-215 and the 1502 are paired to a klipsch 250 c and Bose 301 running in parallel so the bose are running in 4 ohms and the Cerwin Vega xls-215 are 6 ohms and I believe the klipsch 250c is 8 ohms, and my subs are a Cerwin Vega cvx-21s and Cerwin Vega el-36dp which out of my whole system the pro subs sound the best paired with music so like I said if you listen to just music look into pro and forget about that home hifi crap scams
Try making up your own ac cable using tinned copper with cotton insulation. Duelund and NOS Western Electric are easily available. Much more body and warmth. Throwaway money.
Finished cable brands that come to mind are Huffman and Luna (Canada). Using just one in a system should satisfy.
I had small Triangles and found them too bright, I did however get good results by adding 2 (definitely not 1) subwoofer and setting them at between 80 and 120 Hz. That would leave you tons of money to spend on a better phono amp (which I see as the weak link). The Vincent Pho 701 would temper down the Triangles whilst improving mid range and bass.
For what it’s worth, I found ATC scm 40s used for around 3500, and got a pair for a couple of hundred less that had some dings on them. I agree with an earlier poster that these are head and shoulders above the other suggestions. On the other hand, this is still above the poster’s budget, and may be irrelevant as a result.
Good question, I’m up in the air on Vandersteens now after all the reading I’ve been doing… But the Signature 3’s are just too much for my room. I may just hold off and wait for the Tampa Hifi Expo and listen to as much as I can while there….Already got my tickets, but in the mean time I’m gonna hit the area hifi houses and start showcasing their offerings….
Or are 20 year or so old Vandersteen 2ce’s worth looking into. I seem to remember somewhere in the model changes it was mentioned the foam surrounds were improved to correct the drying out issue associated with aging. Can anyone elaborate?
Oops, I always miss the budget constraint. 3-ways for this amount are thin on the ground. Have a look at that Philharmonic BMR design, or look for used. I wouldn't personally bother with the Wharfedale/KLH new products.
For me I’m not going into this as an upgrade due to it’s not much more than I dropped for the Triangles 3 years ago. It’s more of being able to enjoy my system without the occasional cringe. If I do manage an upgrade, hey bonus ! I have listened to and owned numerous 2 ways and always felt something was missing… Yes some sound really good, 85% of the time has been my experience. In the past I’ve owned Paradigm Studio 20’s, Had B&W DM220’s & 602 s3’s, had Ohm E2’s, heard Klipch, Polks, Kef’s and all just are not doing it for me, although the DM 220’s were pretty good, back when B&W was B&W, but age took their toll on em and had to put em to rest. Note: I do have a KEF R60c Center Ch on my AVR theatre set up that I love, but the R3’s & LS 50’s just didn’t do it for me. I like treble but not so much in my face.
I have since upgraded to Treo CT's but when I listen to my vandy 1's I cannot tell I am listening to a 2-way speaker. It just sounds coherent and full top to bottom.
While I understand the urge to upgrade, and acknowledge that are lots of great three-way speakers available, I don’t think narrowing the field according to having 3 drivers is particularly useful. There are pros and cons of each design. I’d suggest evaluating speakers you love the sound of, and that work well in your system in your room, regardless of the driver configuration.
The sound you’re getting now is likely caused by a combination of things, perhaps even the voicing of that particular speaker, but being two-way or three-way isn’t typically indicative of the resulting character of sound. There are some mighty fine full sounding two-ways around, and eliminating those bypasses a lot of wonderful candidates.
With that said, the Wharfedale's would be on my audition list too.
I last pair of speakers were the Cometes. They were good but sounded thin. I went with Ref 3A de Capos, much richer/fuller sound. not colored, detailed. good at low volume and rock at high volume
Thanks Elliott, I do have a sub as noted in my post. Personally I feel most of those “tune in adjustments” on speakers at that price point are more of a gimmick, I may be wrong, but was never really ever to hear difference when messing with them.
My Parasound ZPre3 Matches up well with My Crimsom 275 and I considered a all tube track to my output, but feel tubes also can be iffy with each other and could come back with “doesn’t play well with others on the playground” written on the report card. I like tubes being in one place. Besides, the ZPre3 has bass management w/sub outs.I have been considering a used pair of Vanderstern 2ce’s, The 1c’s are a 2 way and after discussing my set up with the folks at Vandersteen, they agreed the 1c, although sounds great, would prob not get me away from the 2way sound that I’m looking to ditch.
KLH 5 includes some adjustability which I bet your current speakers could benefit from
"It has a three position acoustic balance control whereby the listener can dial up or down the speaker’s mid and high frequency presence to better match one’s listening environment. All Model 5s come with a 10 year warranty."
No speaker knows what space it will end up in, and, you may use speakers in various spaces. I’m a big fan of in-room adjustability. 3 optional positions is much easier to keep matched left to right than my vintage setup of L-Pads, wonderfully flexible but a pain to balance precisely. However, when you get it right, they are KLH 5’s customized for your space. ...................................................
To have some help, an inexpensive sound meter can be helpful, I just ordered one
Not sure where you are located but there is some Dynaudio focus 380s for sale in Florida for 2.5k asking price. I would offer 2 k and see where it goes. Those would be waaaay better than anything new at 3k. Not sure if they will ship but I would figure $400 freight shipping.
Just a suggestion, you may want to try a tube preamp before changing the speakers. Although I have not heard it the Schiit Freya + looks really nice for under a grand then spend the other 2 grand on speakers if you still feel the need. If willing to go used that can get you something pretty nice. I have never had luck pairing a ss preamp with tube amp at all. YMMV.
I’d also like to solve the issue of turning my two way into a three way....AHH thank you very much!!....
Double entendres aside, it would be very easy to recommend Vandersteen 1ci’s or even the new 2’s. Especially if you’re looking for more warmth with no glaring treble. You mentioned the Wharfedale Linton’s. I feel the Vandy 1 does everything the Linton does, but better.
Thanks for your suggestion…Funny, I’ve been researching those as well as the Warfdale Lintons, although the reviews are good on both I thought the KLH’s could be a little bass heavy. I preferred the Lintons over the KLH’s but fear the mid range and tweeter could get harsh on certain recordings from the reviews I’ve read.I do have to say, if I was just starting out both of those speakers would be no brainers, but being exposed to more accurate speakers through the years I’d like to move up the ladder as much as my budget will allow.
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