You don't lack bass, you have too much treble

Treating a room makes speakers sound smaller not bigger.

Not if you do it right, no. 

Subwoofers can make a system sound bigger [...]

Yes, they can.

The point I was trying to make is that what we hear is relative, and the overall balance matters.  Yes, a subwoofer increases bass.  Reducing mid-treble reflections in a room has similar effects as adding more bass, with the added bonus of often improving imaging and reducing listener fatigue. 

@minorl And, what level of smoothing are you using? How many speaker systems actually produce sonically accurate bass down to 18 Hz at the listening position? I'll give you a hint. It has a diameter of three mm. There is no such thing as a system that could not benefit from subwoofers if you want a realistic presentation at volumes that will not damage your hearing.

I am a fanatic when it comes to measuring systems. I have been doing it since 1995. However, it helps a bunch if there is something you can do with the measurements, like use them to guide your use of equalization and adjustment of group delays, set up of subwoofers, etc. All this can be done digitally at very high resolution. These tools are so powerful I can make a middling system sound like one 10 times as expensive. There is no other way to integrate subwoofers correctly. Every other method is wishful thinking. Can you take the edge off a bad room? No, not completely as the reflections disturb the imaging. You have to manage the room with the appropriate methods or use speakers with tightly controlled dispersion.  Measure away and get yourself a full function digital preamp.

@erik_squires Give me a break. Treating a room makes speakers sound smaller not bigger. Subwoofers can make a system sound bigger if a two way crossover is used, much bigger. 

I usually ’go flat’ to start, then tweak above 6Khz to compensate for ears with aids.

Spouses’ ears are OK, so she informs when high hi’s are ’nuff. *G*

Bass is fine: 2 - 10" in 3way driver cabs, mids & tweets disconnected.
A single self-powered 8" in it’s own original cab.
When the Walsh get to harmonize, the upper bass/mid cones are equivalent to a 7" in surface area and make for a nice ’fill’ in the near ’back’ (Just don’t have the floor space for Everything front stage....).

If that ever becomes boring or seeming to be weak....which I can overdrive the space now....

2- 18"s. 1 - 12", and a 10" that has a mag structure as big as a 100’ spool of #12 speaker cable and weighs ’bout 30ish lbs. by itself....all of these desire a cab that I don’t have the room or the amps to do it all some form of injustice....

Oh, and there’s the 2 - 12" Utah’s with their matching expo horns that could punch through all that, even set up like a NY Ohm as they is...done for grins and a way to store them....

If the treble needs more than the pair of large Heil amts’....got another pair. ;)

Yes, Erik....absolutely crazed. *L*

But....Not Insane.👍😎

@audition__audio  Do you believe you can have too much or too little bass, midrange or treble?

You can modify the balance between frequencies by room modification easily ... I did it with a grid of tuned resonators...

And room acoustic is way more complex than buying a few panels ...

I am not so sure I agree with the premise of the OP. entirely. No doubt the room is hugely important and intelligent use of treatments is paramount, but I dont hear room problems in terms of balance. Mids and highs do nothing to add to or detract from bass. 

Better components ad infinitum will not beat a dedicated once for all acoustic room...

No speakers beat their room said some anonymus acoustician i forgot the name ...

It is incredible that so many people vouch for better gear design always, costlier upgrade, never for acoustics understanding and improvement perceived at most as secondary ...

Even miraculous Dr Choueiri filters can correct all stereo system which are all of them defective because of crosstalk, unbeknownst to most audiophiles,  but even dr. Choueiri need for the best optimized results a dedicated acoustic room and inner ears measures and HRTF tracking ... Psychoacoustics rule audio not mere gear design price...

Then asking for changing good speakers for costlier one is preposterous more than half the time and absolutely not comparable to acoustics improvement which can be and must be made ideally for the chosen speakers properties and type ...

Or just get better components.

Both. Absorption will reduce the brightness and diffusion will scatter the sound so room resonance frequencies are not emphasized. GIK has some nice slat diffusers in different absorption depths. 4" works well for most rooms. Most of their panels I've seen have both attributes. 

To make a room sound less bright, are diffusers or absorbers, or both, suggested?  Thanks.  

Being of advanced experience...   (I'm old OK)  a flat response being produced doesn't mean I'm experiencing a "balanced"  presentation.  Since I'm adjusting my listening experience to what sounds good to me a flat response as a baseline is where I would attempt to start but it's just that a starting point.  My biggest issue is the huge difference in recordings.  It's especially noticeable in the bass as it can go from "yeah that's it" to where did the bass go? to OMG that is way to much bottom end. 

The best I can hope for is most recordings sound pretty good without adjusting anything so a "flat response" is pretty much moot for actual listening.

My stance is different.

If you find your system sound bright, then bring up the bass by adding subwoofer or so.

After using two 18 inch, 15 inch, 12 inch subwoofers and mid woofers tandem, I found my system sound more balanced.

Thomas

Most of the points made above are valid.

Check the response at the listening position first. @eric_squires had a good suggestion and the 1/3 test tones also.

I used pink noise because it was easy and encompassed the entire spectrum.  Flat is flat.  unless your measuring instruments roll off or boost frequencies, it is what you are seeing.

If you see any dips (I have a serious dip at 58 hz), or hills, there is your problem.

Is it a particular component in your system?  Speakers, source, pre-amp, amp? or the room?  But, doing this test, at least you can see if there is a problem.

If it shows too much bass because you have three million REL subwoofers, but you like how it sounds, then more power to you.

I want my system and room to give me as close to a flat response as possible.  That is how equipment is typically designed, unless the manufacturer is playing games.  

Flat first, then adjust as you like.

Heck, I've gone to some serious hi end dealers and listened to their top equipment and they were sitting there trying to sell my friends and I on how much bass response the speakers had.  "you can feel it in your chest" they would say.  And I, who played classical violin, sax, etc. would say, you know that is way too much bass.

This is very similar to younger people who are used to MP3 or compressed digital and think this is great.  it is all they ever heard and people told them it was good.  Too much bass is too much bass.  was it really recorded that way?

Anyway, just my thoughts.

Flat frequency response is indeed what you want for accurate reproduction. Music has a natural high end roll off, but if your speakers don't reproduce the entire spectrum, you will have an artificial rolloff. 

Details by themselves alone unbalanced are a defect not a +...

This defect can come from the gear synergy or pieces but often  the first thing to look  at   and the last thing to look at is always acoustics and room acoustic to improve things ...

The OP is right as usual ....

😊

Flat frequency response at the listening position is way too much treble.

I use a SPL meter on a tripod, and

do not like pink noise.

I use 1/3 octave test tones, like found on Amazing Bytes CD. Last one sold, $9.99 was me, I snapped it up. Actually the one on discogs for $42. delivered is a good price, most often $75. + delivery.

I don’t use LP test records, something might be off, CD’s always sound the same.

After measuring and adjusting in some manner, still using test tones: then adjust to your preference by ear.

I might revise Erik's statement, also true: you might have too much midrange, too much presence, which can be appealing, especially vocals, but in the same way, lessens the balance of the bass, and in many cases, at our age of reduced sensitivity to highs, you might find yourself boosting the highs.

Eurythmics Sweet Dreams will help you with final highs adjustments after measurements.

Good room acoustics is more important than equipment. Without controlling frequency response and reverb time, it sounds like the room, not your gear. The proper balance of absorption and diffusion is critical to hearing what's coming out of your speakers. 

@koestner 

Pink Noise has the same energy level at all frequencies. No roll off. That's what makes it useful. 

I tend to agree, OP; your observation is valid. However, I face a dilemma in treating my room further due to WAF. Also, I had good reasons not to pursue the subwoofer route after multiple attempts. Instead, I opted for the EQ route with manual equal-loudness contour (ELC) control in the digital domain, and so far, it’s working well.

If you EQ your system flat to 20KHz with pink noise you will likely blow your tweeters. Pink noise has a natural roll off as the frequencies get higher.

@minorl I encourage you to step up your game a little. Gated and blended responses are far better than pink noise, which you get with Room EQ Wizard and a calibrated microphone or OmniMic. 

You'll get a far better idea of what you are hearing that way.

One big problem is that many don't measure their system's response using pink noise and an inexpensive analyzer system like audiotools (free by the way) from their listening position.

Using a test CD like Stereophile's you can play back pink noise and look at your system's response.  The room has a major effect also.  If the response isn't flat from 20 hz to 20 khz, it will show the dips and hills.  You want to at least start with a completely flat response at all frequencies from 20 hz to 20 khz.

many manufactures try to fool listeners by either boosting bass response or lowering mid range response to give the illusion of great bass response.

I know many advocate subwoofers to be installed. However, in my opinion, if your system (speakers included) actually give you a flat bass response with the other frequencies, then your system does not really need subwoofers and is doing its job.

That's not to say it won't benefit from subwoofers or equalizers.  This is where room treatment comes in first, then equalizers (there are some really good ones out there), to either boost or cut certain frequencies.

Try it  Get a test CD with pink noise, and use the Audiotools app. There are others also.  But free is free.  See from your listening position what the response actually is.  You might be surprised.  

Too much bass?  Too little?  etc.  

enjoy

@erik_squires

+1 good post.

I have worked through a very complicated relationship with treble for nearly fifty years. While I knew the old adage of be careful when choosing speakers, too bright can sound like good detail. But struggled with it anyway.

Definitely it is easy to have a too bright room overwhelm the balance. Lots of speakers and components are also designed to be very detailed and start with too much energy in the high end compounding the problem.