You don't lack bass, you have too much treble


One of the biggest surprises in audio and acoustics is how damping a room with treatments makes small speakers sound so much bigger.  Yes, you get a broader, deeper soundstage but you also seem to get a lot more bass, more power, more extension!!

What's going on? 

What happened is your room was too bright.  The overall balance was too heavy on the mid and treble so as a result your systems balance was off.

For this reason I often suggest before A'goners start chasing bigger and bigger speakers, that  they think about the room first, add damping and diffusion and then go back to thinking about the bass.

Not saying you don't need a bigger speaker, but that some rooms may never have a big enough speaker in them due to the natural reflective properties.

erik_squires

Showing 3 responses by minorl

One big problem is that many don't measure their system's response using pink noise and an inexpensive analyzer system like audiotools (free by the way) from their listening position.

Using a test CD like Stereophile's you can play back pink noise and look at your system's response.  The room has a major effect also.  If the response isn't flat from 20 hz to 20 khz, it will show the dips and hills.  You want to at least start with a completely flat response at all frequencies from 20 hz to 20 khz.

many manufactures try to fool listeners by either boosting bass response or lowering mid range response to give the illusion of great bass response.

I know many advocate subwoofers to be installed. However, in my opinion, if your system (speakers included) actually give you a flat bass response with the other frequencies, then your system does not really need subwoofers and is doing its job.

That's not to say it won't benefit from subwoofers or equalizers.  This is where room treatment comes in first, then equalizers (there are some really good ones out there), to either boost or cut certain frequencies.

Try it  Get a test CD with pink noise, and use the Audiotools app. There are others also.  But free is free.  See from your listening position what the response actually is.  You might be surprised.  

Too much bass?  Too little?  etc.  

enjoy

 

Most of the points made above are valid.

Check the response at the listening position first. @eric_squires had a good suggestion and the 1/3 test tones also.

I used pink noise because it was easy and encompassed the entire spectrum.  Flat is flat.  unless your measuring instruments roll off or boost frequencies, it is what you are seeing.

If you see any dips (I have a serious dip at 58 hz), or hills, there is your problem.

Is it a particular component in your system?  Speakers, source, pre-amp, amp? or the room?  But, doing this test, at least you can see if there is a problem.

If it shows too much bass because you have three million REL subwoofers, but you like how it sounds, then more power to you.

I want my system and room to give me as close to a flat response as possible.  That is how equipment is typically designed, unless the manufacturer is playing games.  

Flat first, then adjust as you like.

Heck, I've gone to some serious hi end dealers and listened to their top equipment and they were sitting there trying to sell my friends and I on how much bass response the speakers had.  "you can feel it in your chest" they would say.  And I, who played classical violin, sax, etc. would say, you know that is way too much bass.

This is very similar to younger people who are used to MP3 or compressed digital and think this is great.  it is all they ever heard and people told them it was good.  Too much bass is too much bass.  was it really recorded that way?

 

Anyway, just my thoughts.

@mijostyn very good points.  I have bass traps in the corners behind my speakers, they actually help greatly with the room. I've listened with and without them and the really help

I also use a Krell KBX electronic balanced crossover designed specifically for my speakers (incorporates some wave shaping circuitry) with low and high adjustments that I use to tune slightly. Trying to get the flat response first and then adjust slightly for effect.

I am sure that I can do more.  Room treatment is hit or miss with no refunds if you miss and most are seriously ugly.  But, sometimes worth a try.

I know McIntosh labs actually have a equalizer that might help that has balanced in and outputs.  I am looking into that or some other.

But, I'm pretty much "there" with my system otherwise. I just replaced the panels on my Martin Logan Monolith III speakers and upgraded the woofers to the Pearless woofers.  Nice!

Those speakers are still outstanding and with the Krell crossover, I don't hear any gaps or timing issues between the panels and the woofers.

I'm sure subwoofers may help, but I don't feel I'm missing anything. Especially when I go to my dealer friends and listen to my music on their equipment with subwoofers.  

But, one never knows whats in the future.  I've tried subwoofers added before, and couldn't dial them in correctly to the extent they weren't hurting the sound more.

But I know there are some really nice subwoofer systems out there.

Also, My Audio Research REF 10 pre-amp is simply outstanding an well no, not changing that anytime soon.

Thanks for the suggestions,

enjoy