Some manufacturers (namely over at Audio Circle) pre-launch gear with a "Tour" of specific equipment, which consists of a pre-tour sign-up list, and a commitment by each person on the tour stop to: - pay shipping to the next person on the tour, and
- to post a short review or comments of their impressions of the gear.
I participated in the Tortuga tube buffer tour about 1-2 years ago and things were civilized and well-run. As a twist on the OP's idea, maybe the folks here could talk a few manufacturers into offering a "tour" of certain equipment, either popular pieces or maybe new-to-the-market equipment where the word is not out yet. The manufacturer gets free publicity from this group and the benefit that only people interested in the specific equipment on tour would sign up, which means the reviewer's ancillary system equipment and their personal sonic preferences should be aligned with the gear being reviewed. One way to start would be for Audiogon to organize tours of gear by manufacturers who advertise on this site. |
" Sound has nothing to do with music" - Groucho Marx speaking of Beethoven
:)
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jbhiller OP
If someone like Ericsquires, for example, has been listening and tweaking for 30-40 years I’d be curious to hear what he has to say after living with a component for a month. Then it would be cool to contrast his view with several others who also had an opportunity to live with the same product for a month. >>>>That should ensure the reviewer’s hearing has gone all to hell above what, about 10 kHz? That’s just great! 🤗 |
@bryhifi good , Merchant was beat into me by the old man with his Bozaks... fortunately for me, they started me out on trombone ( cause the kid down the street washed out and rental was easy.,, ugh )
how about You pick the tune ? I do like tower of power |
I have an NAD 3020 we can use as a trial mule, can that count as my dollar? With any luck Millercarbon will paint it inside and out with perfect path contact goop |
I cannot resist reading reviews, even bad one...But it was very misleading for me 7 years ago, at the beginning of my conscious audio journey, instilling in me the false impression that upgrading an electronic components was the key to Hi-Fi, and it is absolutely false...
Alas! Most people think like me 7 years ago...
But I loved reading reviews this is a point I cannot negate...
" I like cheating and reviews" - Groucho Marx
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There are reviewers who I trust, and then those who are in it for the wrong reasons, and obviously getting big kickbacks from companies for a good review. We’d be fooling ourselves to think otherwise. YouTube is full of both, and certain ones are absolutely cringeworthy, but this isn’t YouTube. It’s a group of our peers. I don’t think it’d hurt to at least put together a list and then group of willing individuals here on A’gon with earned credibility to do such a thing. Will it come to fruition? That, I don’t know. There’s a lot of variables at play too, such as their listening rooms, and you’d have to make sure things such as cables used in these reviews are exactly the the same and with the same amount of burn in time, if you wanted accuracy. There’s much more I can’t think of off the top of my head, but I at least believe it to be a cool idea. |
But for one exception; I’d sooner pay to have Julian Hirsch resurrected! |
If someone like Ericsquires, for example, has been listening and tweaking for 30-40 years I’d be curious to hear what he has to say after living with a component for a month. Then it would be cool to contrast his view with several others who also had an opportunity to live with the same product for a month.
I have a sneaking suspicion many of the naysayers are just being contrarian here. If one doesn’t care about what reviews have to say or anyone on this form’s view, why even read the forums? Maybe I’m being a touch flippant here. :).
I particularly enjoy and find value in what others have experienced with a product. While it’s likely far from gospel, unpaid real life listeners trying out products in their systems are a good source for me to look at.
While I really enjoy pros like Fremer, Reichert, Kessler, Guttenberg and so on, these dudes do have to answer to bosses. These dudes are not traditionally building systems the way we “ordinary folk” are. These dudes, as lovely people as they are, are not typically in the same position as strict hobbyists.
I use what others say and think as a guide. It’s a guide that I must vet yet one I enjoy and use as a tool.
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@tomic601 ………………………………..
I am a Fluke fanboy myself. Just bought myself another one with a nice case.
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@tomic601
while I can play Carnival it’s not in my normal wheelhouse. Jazz, funk and big band is where I do damage. I’ve tipped the meter a few times with my Callichio 1s2 in the upper register (F6, Ab6 and Bb6) in excess of 140 dB which the Shure SM27(?) did not seem to handle well. Full round core sound really flattened out.
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Reviews Can have Some merit, but usually it isn't so much about the sound that grabs me. Using a product will educate you soon enough about things such as whether a remote has the needed features and ease of use, for example. Yes, you can read about it in the manufacturers ad, but they won't include statements that you may automatically trust. I like to know that a chassis is well made, or that switches and knobs don't have some kind of funkiness to them. I could go on, yes, but these observations too are important to me as a consumer.
Knowing about the reviewer also lets me trust, or not, his taste in music and more. So many times when I am reading a review, I am wishing that the reviewer would just get to the point, and not run comparisons to wine, cars or seemingly related topics (to him, that is). |
But seriously for the curious, please do Visit 2L and the free downloads section in many formats and study the different sonic attributes from someone I consider a true master. The sonic space is astounding:-)
did I mention it’s free ? |
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@bryhifi ya man !!!!! Can you rip off Carnival of Venice ????
i am so in, where do I send my dollar?
I better check peak SPL on that puppy
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It seems my fate is to rewrite you, and dont know which one of you or me, feel the better! :)
My best...
"The best is the worst in reverse order or vice versa" - Groucho Marx
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mahgister,
That is exactly what I thought and you then rewrote it even better.
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I will precise rewiews are not a waste, I like them, but they are less useful than misleading overall... Useful for fun reading and technicalities generally not a good understanding of audio experience for the beginners that I was 7 years ago....
Cheers glupson...
"Son, one fish takes the other fish in one gulp, always watch the bowl "- Groucho Marx
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I actually think it's an interesting idea.If the 'reviewers ' could describe their rooms,equipment,and personal preferences up front.But someone has to purchase the item and how would any damages be handled?Someone's going to pay for that glass!!Maybe too many details to work out.And getting everyone to agree on the details?Good luck with that:-)
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As mahgister said, reviews are overall not that useful. Add the reviewer whose posts in general are detached from any easily verifiable reality and you are really wasting even that one proposed dollar fee.
That is not to say that I would not read what almarg would have to say, but not everyone is almarg.
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Nice YouTube vid @gdnrbob
It seems the Stereophile "test lab" is a (sort of messy) walk-in closet?
This may explain why the Wizard of Oz had a curtain.
I hope there is another room where he kept the JC-1s. |
@nonoise
lmao on the band requests |
I'd like @tomic601 's review of the Royer
R-122V Vacuum Tube Ribbon Microphone.
asking as a trumpet player ;) |
Asking me to read reviews is like asking if a band takes requests and they keep playing.
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Perhaps there is unknown superior products, i know some...
But in general there is 3 levels of price/ S.Q., low, mid, high, and on each rung of this scale, almost all products are equal, if someone is taking the real path to increase the audio experience and this path is absolutely not buying an electronic component upgrade...
This real path ask to turn to the triple embeddings problems, because mechanical vibrations-resonances, bad acoustical room, and the high level of the electrical noise of the house, obstruct the potential of the electronic components at any price and impede the higher audiophile experience... Then never mind the superior products, pay attention to the embeddings... :)
"The sound is good enough for my room"- Groucho Marx audiophile
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The only reason Fremer likes it as he does is that now he has enough clout, deserved or not, to get away with it. The problem with Fremer is not Fremer himself but people like his fanboys that believe he is immune to the petty corruptions that taint most other reviews. The whole process is broken and no publication will identify a truly superior product as such because it is bad for business. |
Eric there are preamps with meters..., OMG .... why don't they all have them??? <G> |
Yes, Yes, Yes - how much do you want to pay me?
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If that diverse gang all agree on something there might actually be something to it.
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Quote : "But seriously, who wouldn't love to hear ordinary folks review stuff? "
And here all this time I thought reviewers were just ordinary folk........😞
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With the exception of spouses, you do criticize what you love in order to make it better - the first rule of Kaizen : nothing is perfect
I guess I am a time and phase point source fanboy, including that oddity the ESL63, so there are at least four speaker designers I trust |
Stereo5 you really missed the point, it’s not that kind of test bench, but if you took three minutes to go listen at 2L recordings the Nordic sound you would catch the drift.... |
@mahgister you missed the Fletcher Munson point, right past those ears is a brain, which likes loud. No level matching, no real comparison |
@jbhiller...…………………..
You didn''t get it. I used the examples, myself included, to show that most likely no one here is unbiased. I don't see it working in these forums. Also, I have a right to my opinion, like it or not, just like you and everyone else has a right to theirs.
@tomic601 ………………………………..
I did a online hearing test and after 13K, I flunked. I was told that is average for someone my age, but it bothers me greatly. Makes me wonder how good the pro reviewers hearing really is. Most of the ones that have been around a long time are in their 60 and 70's by now.
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Lets see, you have a Luxman fanboy, a Synergistic fanboy and a GAN fanboy. What do you expect the results to be? I can give you a clue. BAD idea. You can add me as a McIntosh fanboy too. We could also add one of the Tekton fanboys to review Tekton. Do you see what I am getting at? I’d rather read a review by a "fanboy" more than some random dude I know nothing about. At least the fanboy you know where he’s coming from. Its like, who’s the world’s most recognizably great reviewer? If its not Michael Fremer I’ll eat Turd Ferguson’s hat. Everybody knows Mikey. And if there’s anything we know about Mikey its that he likes it fast and hard. We know this how? Because he’s right up front about it. I’m exaggerating but MF definitely makes it explicitly clear that he does have a preference. So when we read MF we know exactly what lens we are looking through. (If you haven’t been following Fremer for decades and only know a few examples then spoiler alert- he’s a writer not a lawyer. He doesn’t include the same disclaimer every review.) Same goes for "fanboys" whatever that means. Seems to me a derogatory term cooked up in order to avoid serious thought and excuse sloppy reasoning. But whatever. The fact remains that if you do read a "fanboy" and the "fanboy" has anything negative to say the one thing you know for sure, he’s not making it up. You just don’t criticize what you love, unless its really necessary. |
So few understand level matching or have the needed tools to do so cuts the reviewer pile by 99% If it was only level matching electronic components, this will be simple...A question of measured numbers... But the 3 embeddings i think about are best measured by our ears...No apparatus measured the 3 simultaneously.... |
I am a Fluke and B&K fanboy oh and the almighty Tektronix and Gen Rad
but first, perhaps test hearing and critical listening skills, a great free place to do that is at the 2L testbench
free George free |
@stereo5 , wow! So if you're a fan of a product line you cannot review any other products?
And, yes, starting a website with a panel of reviewers is something I've kicked around for a couple of years.
Maybe I'll take this subject over to Steve Hoffman's forums! :)
Tough crowd! |
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So the ones you picked as potential reviewers have golden ears or what? I can think of many others who I would like to hear from. I have an idea, why not start your own online forum and have your golden eared guys review equipment? Doubtful you will get the manufacturers to loan out equipment.
Lets see, you have a Luxman fanboy, a Synergistic fanboy and a GAN fanboy. What do you expect the results to be? I can give you a clue. BAD idea. You can add me as a McIntosh fanboy too. We could also add one of the Tekton fanboys to review Tekton. Do you see what I am getting at?
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So few understand level matching or have the needed tools to do so cuts the reviewer pile by 99%
In God we trust, all others bring a calibrated SPL meter - Groucho Watt |
I dont forget the ears but you are right all ears are sure different...
But gives me your ears and I will put delight in them like I put in mine, tastes difference apart, because the 3 way an audio system is embedded has way more impact than the variations between relatively normal healthy ears...
Understand me, ears of one are very different than ears of another, but if the 2 sits in a treated controlled environment with a rightly embedded good audio system, the 2 ears will meet together in a different critical appraisal but nevertheless a good one... :)
It is just that I know by experience that most people totally underestimated the 3 embeddings impactful power...This is the general trend in audio, even if tweaks has a small niche....And remember that NO TWEAKS address the 3 embeddings together...They are tweaks more potent than others I know some, but not one solve the equation by only itself... Thinking that way only reveal a misunderstanding of the relation between acoustical, mechanical, electrical embeddings and their very different impacts on the sound qualities...
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Sure how 'bout -
@kenjit
Smile ;-)
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Mahgister... you forgot one. Ears. It’s pretty simple really. When I look for reviews I look for the trend in the reviews one way or another. Audio or whatever. Then I’ll base my decisions on my desire, need, budget etc. WAY, WAY too much bias generally on this forum from most. Which is fine. But highly subjective, not hardly objective. As are most reviews... |
In my experience reviews has no meaning whatsoever, except if you are interested in some reviewer journey, or about some new device technicalities or simply to hear the wind...
But reviews has no audio real meaning, except a very general one, because the synergy of different electronic audio components plays a great role in their sound output; but this is not even the main reason... :)
The main reason is the same audio system will sound totally different, relatively to the 3 embeddings were it will be immerse : mechanical(vibrations-resonance), acoustical (room treatment+acoustical tweaks) electrical (house and room noise floor).
Then the reason for reviews are many: literary, technical vulgarisation, subjective taste, trends participation, etc. But in general they are sponsored directly or indirectly, and willing or not, suggest unbeknownst to the reviewer or readers, the idea (erroneous) that upgrading an electronic components(speakers, dac. amplifier) is the main and most desirable method to increase the sound quality... This is absolutely false and I explain already that in another thread....
All this thing said, I enjoy reading reviews and reviewers, but paying directly them, no thanks.... :)
One exception:
I will accept all donations of those who want to contribute to my review of some ZOTL Berning amplifier...Minimum gift is 2 dollars...I will be totally partial because I want to buy one, one day...After reading a review, I was convinced... Now you know that reviews can be efficient and dangerous even on conscious spirit.... :)
"Reviews are better than books, except for the bible." - Groucho Marx
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