Why not?

My first mid-fi amp and preamp came with really crummy power cords. My Primaluna came with a very thick and I assume large gauge conductor. The only one I have owned that came with a Hulk cable!  😀

I realize battery powered audio equipment can be better, I was making a point that some here say if a power supply is designed properly it will filter out all the power line noise, and this is simply not true.

If designed properly, in theory, batteries can provide cleaner, more consistent power, avoiding the noise of the power company. Even the best designed power conditioner can’t filter all the noise.

Why would a battery supply work better on the nagra if it is designed properly there would be no need, according to your way of thinking.

@roxy54 You make two seemingly contradictive comments in a row. First, you say my comment makes no sense and then you seem to agree with me. I approve of your second comment stating that end users prefer to make their own choices on aftermarket items. My only problem was the comment that was previously made about High-end manufacturers don't even care about the quality of their components enough to even consider these items. In reply, I stated why should I pay $10,000 to $100,000 for an item if their engineers haven't even calculated what kind of effect something might have on their equipment or don't even care what kind of accessories they provide the customer. I think it is possible that you didn't see to which comment I was answering when I made my original statement.

+1 @pmiller115 

 CORRECTION- 

"If I think any equipment manufacturer that attempts to tell its customers what sounds best with their equipment will not be well received."

TO 

 "I think any equipment manufacturer that attempts to tell its customers what sounds best with their equipment will not be well received." 

I have not read all of the other posts so I may be simply repeating what others have already said. That being said, I think an issue directly relevant to your question is that we all have different tastes and perceptions of what sounds best. I think my system sounds good and if I didn't I would keep working at it until I was satisfied - if you are ever really satisfied for more than a day of so after which you continue looking for improvements. If I think any equipment manufacturer that attempts to tell its customers what sounds best with their equipment will not be well received. We each decide what sounds best and when we think we have achieved synergy with the different pieces of equipment, tweaks, etc. we own or we continue our search -which is really what this hobby is all about- until we find what we think sounds best and no one else can decide that for any one of us. It is in the interest of every equipment manufacturer to keep as many options for sound coloration open in the use of their equipment. 

 

It makes no sense. Amp manufacturers supply power cords. People like specialist power cords and are free to buy them. OP’s assertion that amp makers should supply what are essentially specialized boutique cables is silly. End users like to choose their own, and even if the maker supplied a special cable, it might not work optimally in the end user’s system. as others have said. So what is there for me to learn @lovepianos?

makes great sense.  maybe you'll learn something.  😃

@esarhaddon 

That makes no sense. Next.

I've been using Shunyata gear for power distributors for my reference system and for recording.  I recommend going to their web site and selecting the about button to see their youtube video.  The founder has a really good explanation for the importance and science of providing clean power.

Hope this helps.

Ayre cables are Cardas.....when I got all my Ayre stuff, I got their cables as well which didn't work for me.

Regarding the "Harley" post : I had a friend who was the sales manager of a large motorcycle dealer.  He told me that the first thing they did when they traded in a bike was to remove all the accessories.  Why GIVE the customer the accessories when they could SELL them the accessories ?

yes, Pass Labs, who everyone seems to like to mention, used to recommend that your cables should not cost more than your components...

A few additions/things to consider:

 

1) Puritan power conditioners come with an excellent power cord (maybe because they use a different plug in their device) and allow you to upgrade it when you order  it

2) Rega's tonearm cable runs straight through form the wires that connect to your cartridge into an RCA cable/connectors. No tonearm cables, removable headshells with plugs or other points of sound deterioration in the signal path. They also have an adapter plug into their PSU that is hard wired into a wall wart. No cable cost whatsoever!

3) Sutherland phono stages provide NO power cord.. He feels that anyone choosy enough to buy one of his phono stages has opinions about their favorite cord. BTW - he doesn't recommend going crazy with them. If I recall he was talking a couple hundred bucks.

ROXY54
I the manufacturer isn't an expert in ALL aspects of their equipment, they won't be seeing one red cent of my hard-earned saving.

 

With the power cord all we have some testimony that someone believes it works. So we know that “they think it works”… in their place… with their gear. But that does not tell us if it work on our gear, with our place in the power grid.

@holmz Hence you yourself have just presented the perfect rationale for trying a PC in your own system, but you refuse to do that for some reason. Whatever. To each his own. Peace out

I probably have better things to spend money on, then fixing a problem that I am not sure I have.

And if it is mostly psychological, or if I think that it is psychological, then it is already doubtful to work - or doubtful that I would admit that it works.

Thirdly - as has been mentioned a few times, even the manufacture says that in my system, the battery option is better than a power cord.

So why would I half-ass it? By doing a cable… when that is deemed as substandard to the battery?

 

Line up all the cables, do blind testing and publish the results.  If there really is an improvement in sound, it should be apparent to all, or at least most.  I suspect very few cable manufacturers will allow their feet to be held to the fire

Yeah @bigtwin - that is just more work than people want to do. They only want us to believe what they believe, and not show that is repeatable.

@soix

There are doer’s and bystander’s…this thread yet again shown us the clear distinction between the two types :-)

Line up all the cables, do blind testing and publish the results.  If there really is an improvement in sound, it should be apparent to all, or at least most.  I suspect very few cable manufacturers will allow their feet to be held to the fire.  

With the power cord all we have some testimony that someone believes it works. So we know that “they think it works”… in their place… with their gear. But that does not tell us if it work on our gear, with our place in the power grid.

@holmz Hence you yourself have just presented the perfect rationale for trying a PC in your own system, but you refuse to do that for some reason. Whatever. To each his own. Peace out.

 

@holmz I said…

— that your comfortable and convenient world of theories and measurements might implode if your ears tell you they’re hearing actual improvements? Or maybe you won’t find any improvements or maybe even decreased performance. Either way, that’s called learning — a concept I’d think a scientist would embrace

To which you reply…

What you describe is not “learning” so much as its is “experiencing”. What would I have learned?

Wow. Just…wow. If you’re saying you can’t learn through new experiences we are truly on different planets

I ended it with a question… which was, “What would I have learned?“

It is like going to a magic show and seeing a trick. What do I learn there, from that experience?
I do not really believe that the fellow saws the woman in half, and then she is put back together. And I certainly do not believe that I should try it at home.

I have no idea how he did it.
I only know that magic tricks seem real.

So what would I learn with the power cord? That it seems to work?
I would still not know how or why it works, or if is more ythan psychology.

 

Listening to some power cord, is not like riding a bicycle, or learning to ski, where the experience is learning.
With a powercord, we cannot have someone watch us from the lodge, or at the velodrome and ourselves and everyone else can all think together, “that person can ski (or ride a bike).”

With the power cord all we have some testimony that someone believes it works.
So we know that “they think it works”… in their place… with their gear. But that does not tell us if it work on our gear, with our place in the power grid.

It would be like the bicycle rider talking about the feeling of wind through the hair. But if we have not felt it, then how would we know?

If we can see them riding, and we can see their hair blowing, then we can more easily believe that their hair is being blown by the wind from the riding. And we also know how to ride, then their feelings are something that can empathise with or otherwise understand.

 

@holmz I said…

— that your comfortable and convenient world of theories and measurements might implode if your ears tell you they’re hearing actual improvements? Or maybe you won’t find any improvements or maybe even decreased performance. Either way, that’s called learning — a concept I’d think a scientist would embrace

To which you reply…

What you describe is not “learning” so much as its is “experiencing”. What would I have learned?

Wow. Just…wow. If you’re saying you can’t learn through new experiences we are truly on different planets. I’ve learned a helluva lot more by keeping an open mind and listening to lots of different equipment than I ever learned by looking at measurements. At this point I’ll take @thyname advice and just give up as there’s clearly no point going any further with this and leave with some Pink Floyd lyrics that seem appropriate…

The bleeding hearts and the artists make their stand
And when they’ve given you their all
Some stagger and fall, after all it’s not easy
Banging your heart against some mad bugger’s wall

@soix and @holmz Funny story about that. A friend lent me a pair of MIT Terminator2 speaker cables. I put them in my system, replacing some Crutchfield generic cables, and was amazed! Clarity, texture! I was so smitten I bought a pair of MIT Terminator2 interconnects just to see if what I was hearing could be further enhanced. Sure enough, better still. Enjoyed them for a couple of months, reveling in what I was hearing. Time came to give them back, which I really was sad to do. Determined i would have to get a set of my own. Replaced them with the old cable. Everything still sounded good. I could not find fault with the system.

@bruce19

1. Those MITs have an actual box on the end of them with a Zobel network filter
   1. They measure different as well as sound different
2. Speaker cables carry more current than any other part of the system, and are often long,

I would be very surprised if they were not different than, say, a lamp cord.

 

@holmz Ah, I see. You don’t trust your own ears. Got it.

I certainly do not trust them to make a decision on a cable after a 250 mile drive up to the shops that sell them, and know how it will sound in my room... With my speakers and electronics, and the power where I live, relative to what the power is in the shop that sells them..

 

You and @ghdprentice would have an interesting conversation as two scientists with polar opposite views on cables.

We are sort of trying to have some of that here.

 

Why not just try an aftermarket PC just to see/hear for yourself? What are you afraid of

Mostly blowing through funds, but it could be social signalling that I am not a sucker. Most of the social science types say that we do things without knowing the real reasons why we do them. So I am open to possibilities there.

 

— that your comfortable and convenient world of theories and measurements might implode if your ears tell you they’re hearing actual improvements? Or maybe you won’t find any improvements or maybe even decreased performance. Either way, that’s called learning — a concept I’d think a scientist would embrace

What you describe is not “learning” so much as its is “experiencing”. What would I have learned?

It is a somewhat more common theme to want to know why things work the way that they do. And also to have theories and laws to describe it’ll, so as to be able to repeat the process.

Would could probably make an analogy with wine. If the SO and I are having a certain meal, I know that the Tempranillo or Grenache will be great with it, from experience. I am not exactly 100% interested in how the ph and tannins, etc. combine, but if I was a vitaculturalist I probably would be keening interested in that.

And the same people consistently produce the drops year on year, and can explain how they do it.

 

Would you, or anyone else, agree that:

1. That the power supply stability/stiffness is primarily what we want to be as stiff as possible?
2. As the power supply capacitance gets larger and large, that the DC voltage would be more and more stable?
3. In my case, running off of a battery would be the more preferable option as opposed to a putting those funds into a power cable?

 

 

@thyname

Do you remember @almarg? (RIP) He was a widely respected audiophile in our Audigon community. With a doctorate in EE, he had been awarded several utility patents over his career.

He believed that technology progresses - from anecdotal to evidentiary. His approach was to try to figure out the ’why & how’ variables might influence sound quality. It was a fun for him. Like solving a mystery - or a puzzle

He sounds like he was an interesting and likeable fellow.

I make am probably not so gracious, but I’ll try:

1. If one wants to avoid spending heaps of time and $ on ICs, then they may want to consider XLR/balanced equipment.
2. If they want to avoid spending time and money on speaker cables, then may want to consider running mono blocks (with short speaker cables) and using amps that drive complex loads easily
   1. and consider using speakers that are easy loads to drive.
3. If they want to avoid power cord dramas, and power grid concerns, then they may want to look for manufacturers that claim that their systems do all the filtering and supply, and have have “overbuilt” power supplies.

I cannot imagine that a cord that is connected on an expensive outlet, into and expensive input on the amp, would be better than using the same cord attached directly to the amp in a captive sense.
And also wire nutted directly to the incoming wall power.

it is not a vacuum cleaner, where we want to move it room to room.

All those extra interfaces are places for trouble, and outlets that grip better, with no corroding materials have an advantage, as well as inlet power connections that do the same. They are just a lot more complicated and engineered than a captive cord, and they try to get back what is lost by not using a captive cord… or at least not give up any more ground.

Very good point @steakster !

@big_greg Wrote:

My Ampzilla amps come with a custom power cord that the manufacturer thinks is the perfect match. It’s hardwired into the amplifier. Love it or leave it

My Crown Studio Reference One Amp comes with a custom permanently attached power cord that is 10AWG with a 30 amp plug that is cold welded into the amplifier by the manufacturer so you cannot remove it. They also give you a Pass & Seymour 125 volt 30 amp wall plug in the box when you buy the amp new and they recommend a licensed electrician to install a minimum125V 30A dedicated circuit, just for the Crown amp. Crown does not offer an aftermarket quality AC power cable for this amp but they do give you a permanently attached, properly designed and most importantly, a well implemented AC power cable to perfectly match this amp. See image #2 power cord:

https://reverb.com/item/21627144-crown-studio-reference-1-one-industry-standard-amp-power-amplifier-good-c

 

@soix and @holmz  Funny story about that. A friend lent me a pair of MIT Terminator2 speaker cables. I put them in my system, replacing some Crutchfield generic cables, and was amazed! Clarity, texture! I was so smitten I bought a pair of MIT Terminator2 interconnects just to see if what I was hearing could be further enhanced. Sure enough, better still. Enjoyed them for a couple of months, reveling in what I was hearing. Time came to give them back, which I really was sad to do. Determined i would have to get a set of my own. Replaced them with the old cable. Everything still sounded good. I could not find fault with the system.

Possible conclusions;

1. I am a hopeless audiophile wannabe who should be banned from any audio show room hencewith.

2. The MIT cables magically transformed my system when I installed them and somehow left their goodness there even after they were removed.

3. My expectation of how good I expected those MITs to be clouded my judgement and dimmed by auditory memory sufficiently that I could fool myself.

4. The MIT cables did change the sound and I heard that and thought it was "better", but the change back to the original was not as drastic as I had expected and I discovered I liked that "flavor" just as much as the MITs.

Why not just try an aftermarket PC just to see/hear for yourself?

@soix : it's not going to work. They will never try anything for themselves. Trust me, I have attempted to do this several times over the years. I have even offered to send them for free power cords / cables, nothing fancy, basic good quality stuff at about $100 - $200 range. They have always refused. It is a "thing" for them. They will never try out of principle. I have given up attempting to help them. I already know the story the moment I see their very first post. It is an exercise in futility, no matter what.

 

 

As a scientist I can understand that if one shows something happening on a DC supply then I know that the cord changed things.

@holmz Ah, I see.  You don’t trust your own ears.  Got it.  You and @ghdprentice would have an interesting conversation as two scientists with polar opposite views on cables.  Why not just try an aftermarket PC just to see/hear for yourself?  What are you afraid of — that your comfortable and convenient world of theories and measurements might implode if your ears tell you they’re hearing actual improvements?   Or maybe you won’t find any improvements or maybe even decreased performance.  Either way, that’s called learning — a concept I’d think a scientist would embrace.  

Even at the top of the high end, products are built to hit certain price points, with certain parts and pieces decisions made accordingly. The car tire analogy is an accurate one - good enough to last the buyer a fair amount of time but not the best one available. Secondly, not every manufacturer spends time testing after market tweaks with their products. Some do but many are already busy enough just keeping their products available, especially given today's product pipeline shortages.

 

Why all the back and forth? Just try some better power cords — either buy used and sell at little/no loss or buy direct from the many direct sellers and take advantage of their generous trial/return policies — and if they don’t make a significant improvement stick with the generic PCs and live happily ever after. What I can’t accept is when people just reject out of hand PCs can make a difference and never even try better cables yet preach that better PCs can’t make a difference because there are no measurements to support it. That’s just willful ignorance, and as @ghdprentice as a scientist has stated and while he might not fully understand why PCs make a significant difference, in reality they do in his experience for whatever reason.

As a scientist I can understand that if one shows something happening on a DC supply then I know that the cord changed things.

And I also understand that people generally have a psychological bias to expect a change.

 

Bottom line — not everything is measurable relative to what the human ear can hear.

That seems like it is a bit of a magical way of thinking.

1. The people that design the electronics are more often thick glasses wearing types that understand the science.
2. The power cable people are more along the social sciences tract, that understand human nature and prose.

I would be looking for the best of group #1, before I looked for group #2.
Going for group #2, sort of implies that one should have been considering the group #1, but decided not to.

Secondly; the onus should not be upon the rational to prove that other are not hearing voices, it is upon those that hear the things to provide some evidence or reasoning that their stories have a basis is reality.

 

So for those of you who follow the dogma that PCs shouldn’t make a difference, you’ve got no excuse as it’s free, or very near free, to try several brands and use your ears to see if they make a difference. If they don’t, then fine you’re right where you started from with some good personal experience to support your beliefs. If you haven’t yet tried better PCs, what are you afraid of — that your preconceived world might be upset and you can’t explain why? Who cares? If you get better sound you win whether you can explain it in measurements or not. Sheesh.

Another approach is that It is entirely possible that some gear does enjoy a change from a power cord swap. (But probably the gear that I would not be looking at.)

Most of the quality gear is designed well, and putting specials cords on sub standard gear is sort like putting lipstick, or spats, onto a pig. (It does make for a better looking and more handsome pig.)

It is usually pretty easy to call the distributor or manufacturer to ask them.

This is sort of exactly as @bruce19 asked at the end of his post:

Mostly I would like to know if I am wrong and there are some examples of manufacturers who either include, offer or recommend specific power, interconnect and speaker cable for their products. Thanks community members for offering a place to ask this question that keeps gnawing at me.

Here you go @bruce19:
For the example of Nagra, their agent agrees with @soix and others.
(But they also basically said to consider the 12V battery ahead of a power cord.)

I would be asking @atmasphere, Suprateck, AR, Purifi etc. if they recommend a different power cord or not… and why? And if it has been tested?

 

Here is exactly what the local Swiss agent told me:

If running constantly off the mains power I would say yes, upgrading a power cord would make a difference sonically.

If going the battery option, I wouldn’t worry too much about power cables as once your in battery mode - the interconnects would make a larger difference here

I’;ll admit that ^This^ came a surprise to me… Their MPS (power supply) is not cheap. And it sounds pretty nice.

 

I’ll probably get a spare Lemo connector made, and try and quantify the voltage stability.
Then if I try a power cord, I could run the 12V through a power divider and digitise it with an ADC and have some objective data.

Why all the back and forth?  Just try some better power cords — either buy used and sell at little/no loss or buy direct from the many direct sellers and take advantage of their generous trial/return policies — and if they don’t make a significant improvement stick with the generic PCs and live happily ever after.  What I can’t accept is when people just reject out of hand PCs can make a difference and never even try better cables yet preach that better PCs can’t make a difference because there are no measurements to support it.  That’s just willful ignorance, and as @ghdprentice as a scientist has stated and while he might not fully understand why PCs make a significant difference, in reality they do in his experience for whatever reason.

Bottom line — not everything is measurable relative to what the human ear can hear.  So for those of you who follow the dogma that PCs shouldn’t make a difference, you’ve got no excuse as it’s free, or very near free, to try several brands and use your ears to see if they make a difference.  If they don’t, then fine you’re right where you started from with some good personal experience to support your beliefs.  If you haven’t yet tried better PCs, what are you afraid of — that your preconceived world might be upset and you can’t explain why?  Who cares?  If you get better sound you win whether you can explain it in measurements or not.  Sheesh. 

 

I hate to make assumptions too, so I don’t @lalitk , but I will say you seem to have a talent for being abrasive even when you say you don’t mean to. Being lazy or cheap are not the only reasons someone might be dismayed at the state of the cable market. Allow me to explain how I see it with a story.

Suppose your doctor tells you you need a pacemaker. Once you’ve accepted that fact she asks if you want the standard connecting cable or the premium one. She says, "I’m obliged to tell you that there is no measurable difference between the two and no data one is better than the other and the premium one costs 100 times what the standard one does. By the way it’s not covered by insurance but a lot of people like to get the premium one."

The difference is that medicine is part of science, and there are standards like double blind tests, the AMA, CDC, FDA, etc that regulate that they are “doing no harm”… just like the old Greek Hippocrates advocated.

The “It feels good” branch of homeopathics, and aeroma therapy, etc. may work, or may not… but there is little evidence that it does, and is viewed as “witch doctor medicine” from a western perspective…

And hence we do not have aftermarket cables on pacemakers, nor aftermarket power cords nor batteries.

That gear has to work as intended, and there is no room for the subjective experience to be considered worthwhile when defibrillating.

It objectively becomes pretty clear whether a defibrillator works or not.

 

Would you feel that is an acceptable state of affairs? I would not, but I bet many if not most people and maybe me too would end up buying the premium cable. That’s how I feel about the hifi cable business these days. So I’m seeking ways to try and change that.

I am looking forwards to what you come up with.

I kind of like your pacemaker analogy.
(I have a soft spot in my heart for it 😍)

That’s one way to end the debate on fancy aftermarket power cords. Let’s bring back electronics with captive power cords 🤣

Clearly, tongue in cheek doesn't always come across on the interwebs.

So I’m seeking ways to try and change that.

Good luck with that @bruce19

Besides, what seems to be the problem officer? Pick one cable. Anything. Try for yourself. Simple. No? What are you trying to accomplish? What are you trying to “change” here?

 

Nobody is going to do the work for you. You have to figure this out yourself. By trying. Or you keep reading and posting in the Internets. If that’s your thing. 

LFD offers power cords and interconnects as well as speaker cables for their Integrated. 
 

 

I had a feeling that you would misconstrued my response.

I hate to make assumptions but you seem to lobby for guys who are,

1) Too lazy to take the time to compare power cords,

2) Too cheap to pony up money for a decent power cord

If you are serious about seeking help with cable selection, just list your system & budget, Agon community will be more than happy to provide guidance.

I hate to make assumptions too, so I don't @lalitk , but I will say you seem to have a talent for being abrasive even when you say you don't mean to. Being lazy or cheap are not the only reasons someone might be dismayed at the state of the cable market.  Allow me to explain how I see it with a story.

Suppose your doctor tells you you need a pacemaker. Once you've accepted that fact she asks if you want the standard connecting cable or the premium one. She says, "I'm obliged to tell you that there is no measurable difference between the two  and no data one is better than the other and the premium one costs 100 times what the standard one does. By the way it's not covered by insurance but a lot of people like to get the premium one."

Would you feel that is an acceptable state of affairs? I would not, but I bet many if not most people and maybe me too would end up buying the premium cable. That's how I feel about the hifi cable business these days. So I'm seeking ways to try and change that.

As far as the personal advice on my system I think you and I both no how that goes. A bunch of recommendations with very little agreement which descends into a food fight.

This thread has however stimulated some thoughts on my part and I think I will be back with a proposal about a possible way to harness some of the massive experience here to try to bring a tiny bit of light to the subject. Stay tuned.

Yikes.

@lalitk Wrote:

That’s one way to end the debate on fancy aftermarket power cords. Let’s bring back electronics with captive power cords 🤣

I agree. Another way is to eliminate the power cord and wall plug. I run my amp directly to the dedicated branch circuit, sounds better in my opinion, then running it with a power cord. 😎

Mike

So we had a few additions and corrections, here is the current summary of this thread, thanks to all contributors:

Audio manufacturers who include or recommend high end cables with their equipment

Burmester
Audio Note
PS Audio. They recommend AudioQuest but they also offer their own regenerators, power cords
Krell
Schiit
Musical Hall
Merrill Audio
Naim
Classe provides a pretty good cable from DR Acoustics with the delta amplifiers
Luxman, like the others mentioned, has their own interconnects as well.
Pass Labs regularly uses Silent Source cables and cords (fairly expensive) for their audio show demo rooms....(they do include a nice quality generic cord with their equipment).
AGD supplies high quality power cords with their amps. Don't know about their other products.
Rogers High Fidelity in North Adams, MA offers a house made high quality power cord for their amps.
Raven Audio includes their well made power cords with their amps.
Schiit says you can buy an expensive pc for there preamp but it wont make a difference.
Pearl Acoustics makes Sibelius cables specifically for their well regarded Sibelius SG and CG speakers.
Spectral Audio twists your arm for one speaker cable brand
AQUA includes a decent power cable with Hubbell style terminations.
Ampzilla amps come with a custom power cord that the manufacturer thinks is the perfect match. It's hardwired into the amplifier.
AGD is another company that includes a very nice high quality PC with each of its products.

@lalitk 

Sounds good...go for it!

I like the concept, that if a "perfectly designed and matched" power cord is included, it very well might sound better if it is a captive cord...

AGD is another company that includes a very nice high quality PC with each of its products.

@roxy54, 

I will sell all of my 5 - $5K powercords and buy the badass StormTank S5000 🤣

 

@lalitk 

What fun would that be? Then you couldn't spend 5k on and aftermarket cord.

“My Ampzilla amps come with a custom power cord that the manufacturer thinks is the perfect match. It’s hardwired into the amplifier.”

That’s one way to end the debate on fancy aftermarket power cords. Let’s bring back electronics with captive power cords 🤣

NO!!

On my previous post above, I cited Musical Fidelity as providing directional RCA cables with their turntables, that should have been, ‘Music Hall’ I don’t know what I was typing, sorry for the (unintentional) misinformation. 

My Ampzilla amps come with a custom power cord that the manufacturer thinks is the perfect match. It's hardwired into the amplifier. Love it or leave it.