Why not?

Making cables optional is a thought, especially if they can be offered at a discount,

@soix you raise an excellent point which I forgot to mention. Certainly if one or more cable models where determined to give top results the manufacturer could negotiate bulk purchase pricing to help make an attractive package deal.

My concern is that manufacturers don't speak on this issue because they don't want to stir up a hornets nest among their industry brethren. A reasonable supposition that leaves us consumers out in the cold.

@roxy54 Respectfully, that is really not much of an answer. If someone thinks a company is competent enough to design a box they want surely they would be competent enough to choose a wire to connect it to anther box. Further I do feel there would be a distinct marketing opportunity for a manufacturer doing so. Are you saying they believe the stock cord they supply is as good as any other? Because that is the message they seem to be sending from my viewpoint.

@oldrooney point well taken.

Here is our list so far:

Brumester
Audio Note
PS Audio?
Krell
Schiit
Musical Fidelity

Thanks for contributing that knowledge @alexatpos !

If the situation is as you describe @nonoise  then it really is impossible to talk about matching cables to equipment at all. It puts us all adrift in our own little bubbles of perception with no common points on which to moor. If you will excuse me it is a bit reminiscent of the so called Dark Ages, prior to the Enlightenment when the all purpose answer to every question was "...because God made it that way". Is it not?

Audio Note looks like a very cool company although I am sad to say I have never heard their equipment. Just the fact that they offer a DIY line puts them in another league (for the better IMHO).

I was actually aware of PS Audio and Audioquest. I bought a couple of power cords when buying a power conditioner from them on the strong advice of the sales person but I must admit I just use them because I have them now. It seemed to be a co-marketing arrangement as much as a clear endorsement. The aggravating fact is the lack of clear statements, much less data to help sort the wheat from the chaff. It seems like this cable searching business could take a lifetime and the cable sellers are not unhappy with that situation at all, much as Nonoise suggested above! I guess I'm looking to identify those manufacturers who have the courage to step forward and say something definitive with regard to how their products are connected. So, I am grateful to those of you adding to that knowledge base.

@gs5556 The analogy with tires is actually a pretty good one since all new cars come with tires selected by the manufacturer. That's the way they get reviewed and tested too.  I get it that then you can also opt for "hi-performance" or longer life tires, but, unlike audio cables there is a ton of objective data to help you make a rational choice. Same goes for the fuel, we do have octane ratings after all.

I have heard and read enough high end designers on the record talking about the complex and sophisticated physics and engineering that they employ in deciding how things get chosen inside the unit. I strongly suspect they could make similar information available to use consumers to help us make more informed decisions about the relatively simple connectors for these units.  However I also am aware there is a VERY lucrative niche industry that likes the status quo.

You know, I think I would fully agree with you @roxy54 if most of the cables we are talking about cost less than $50 and very few more than $100 AND if we spoke of them mainly in terms of the materials, designs and workmanship employed. In other words if they were treated like normal wires. However we are talking about products that can cost as much or more than everything else in a system. These products are also treated as proprietary black box systems that reveal as little as possible about how they are made and what they are made of and what distinguishes one product from another, except for very general and vague market speak. They publish no test results, little or nothing about their physical make-up and often no rationale why we should even expect them to work.

We all know how much time and effort we put into researching and comparing products in the rest of our system. Many of us like to get under the hood and,usually, quality shows there as well as in the music made. Reviewers do the same for us, often including objective testing along with subjective impressions. Why do we tolerate less from cable manufacturers? Why excuse this category of product for making us play blind man's bluff? For these reasons I do not consider cable shopping part of the fun and am calling on equipment manufacturers to help us poor consumers make sense of all this. I believe they have the knowledge to do so and that the market would reward them for behaving like a no-nonsense square shooter. I like companies like that and bet you do too.

@roxy54  I know. You are correct, some provide more than others but as was said in another thread it is the wild west. I don't even have language to intelligently discuss cables because there seems to be no agreed upon language to describe what matters and what not. I am agnostic about cables. I buy them but I can't say with certainty what any individual cable has added or detracted from my systems. I have thought I have heard improvements but then on another day I may feel otherwise. The reason is it takes a long time to switch a cable and the changes, if any are subtle. Can't speak for others but my aural memory is just not that strong. I can hear differences in components but cables generally elude me. I bet I am not the only one who could say this if we were honest. This is further aggravated by my own tendency for confirmation bias. When something costs a lot that knowledge affects me, sometimes in favor of the item and sometimes against it. Have not figured out how to do blind testing on myself.

I have learned a lot about hi-fi in the past 5 years since I retired and am pretty satisfied I have at least a fair notion of what is going on in most areas, bought a lot of stuff, built some amps, built some speakers, etc. but cables are like trying to study alchemy.

And I bet I am not alone.

@chocaholic  and @jasonbourne52 You both raise good points that make me think we should also include manufacturers on this list who affirmatively state that there will be no significant improvement in the performance of their product with anything beyond the stock power cord or interconnects they supply.

It feels like we are gathering momentum here! Thanks for all the contributions. Here is a summary of what has been shared so far, just so future readers don't have to pick through the entire thread. I will do this periodically as a service. I hope you feel as I do that manufacturers who are affirmatively addressing this issue deserve your attention.

Audio manufacturers who include or recommend high end cables with their equipment

Burmester
Audio Note
PS Audio. They recommend AudioQuest but they also offer their own regenerators, power cords
Krell
Schiit
Musical Fidelity
Merrill Audio
Naim
Classe provides a pretty good cable from DR Acoustics with the delta amplifiers
Luxman, like the others mentioned, has their own interconnects as well.
Pass Labs regularly uses Silent Source cables and cords (fairly expensive) for their audio show demo rooms....(they do include a nice quality generic cord with their equipment).
AGD supplies high quality power cords with their amps. Don't know about their other products.
Rogers High Fidelity in North Adams, MA offers a house made high quality power cord for their amps.

@roxy54 i’m not sure which statement you are referring to.

If I may @ghdprentice  you commented earlier on that this problem had occurred to you as well. You have spent a lot more time and money than me in the pursuit of sonic excellence and I think you said in another thread that you had been in the tech industry. Given your experience, doesn't it seem to you there could be a better way to help people shop for cables than our current situation?  It is very daunting to any newcomer or even those more experienced but time and budget limited. Industry pundits bemoan the lack of new blood entering hi-fi. Certainly the cable market is a part of the impediments to feeling like you know what you are doing. 

@lalitk  and @soix  Perfectly fine to disagree, honestly. I don't think anybody would force you to buy cables you don't want and I don't think this thread was aimed at those with your extensive knowledge of the subject. It is for people like me who struggle with the whole cable thing and would like some help or who want to make the system better. However, our hobby occasionally is criticized for being elitist and snobby and that is also something worth thinking about.

And lastly, "Cable denier" is an interesting term @thyname , I assume you weren't referring to me because I indicated earlier I am agnostic at this point. I would accept the label of "cable rationalist" however because I would dearly like a reasoned way to find the best most affordable cables for my systems without having to bump around at random wasting time and money.

So we had a few additions and corrections, here is the current summary of this thread, thanks to all contributors:

Audio manufacturers who include or recommend high end cables with their equipment

Burmester
Audio Note
PS Audio. They recommend AudioQuest but they also offer their own regenerators, power cords
Krell
Schiit
Musical Hall
Merrill Audio
Naim
Classe provides a pretty good cable from DR Acoustics with the delta amplifiers
Luxman, like the others mentioned, has their own interconnects as well.
Pass Labs regularly uses Silent Source cables and cords (fairly expensive) for their audio show demo rooms....(they do include a nice quality generic cord with their equipment).
AGD supplies high quality power cords with their amps. Don't know about their other products.
Rogers High Fidelity in North Adams, MA offers a house made high quality power cord for their amps.
Raven Audio includes their well made power cords with their amps.
Schiit says you can buy an expensive pc for there preamp but it wont make a difference.
Pearl Acoustics makes Sibelius cables specifically for their well regarded Sibelius SG and CG speakers.
Spectral Audio twists your arm for one speaker cable brand
AQUA includes a decent power cable with Hubbell style terminations.
Ampzilla amps come with a custom power cord that the manufacturer thinks is the perfect match. It's hardwired into the amplifier.
AGD is another company that includes a very nice high quality PC with each of its products.

I had a feeling that you would misconstrued my response.

I hate to make assumptions but you seem to lobby for guys who are,

1) Too lazy to take the time to compare power cords,

2) Too cheap to pony up money for a decent power cord

If you are serious about seeking help with cable selection, just list your system & budget, Agon community will be more than happy to provide guidance.

I hate to make assumptions too, so I don't @lalitk , but I will say you seem to have a talent for being abrasive even when you say you don't mean to. Being lazy or cheap are not the only reasons someone might be dismayed at the state of the cable market.  Allow me to explain how I see it with a story.

Suppose your doctor tells you you need a pacemaker. Once you've accepted that fact she asks if you want the standard connecting cable or the premium one. She says, "I'm obliged to tell you that there is no measurable difference between the two  and no data one is better than the other and the premium one costs 100 times what the standard one does. By the way it's not covered by insurance but a lot of people like to get the premium one."

Would you feel that is an acceptable state of affairs? I would not, but I bet many if not most people and maybe me too would end up buying the premium cable. That's how I feel about the hifi cable business these days. So I'm seeking ways to try and change that.

As far as the personal advice on my system I think you and I both no how that goes. A bunch of recommendations with very little agreement which descends into a food fight.

This thread has however stimulated some thoughts on my part and I think I will be back with a proposal about a possible way to harness some of the massive experience here to try to bring a tiny bit of light to the subject. Stay tuned.

@soix and @holmz  Funny story about that. A friend lent me a pair of MIT Terminator2 speaker cables. I put them in my system, replacing some Crutchfield generic cables, and was amazed! Clarity, texture! I was so smitten I bought a pair of MIT Terminator2 interconnects just to see if what I was hearing could be further enhanced. Sure enough, better still. Enjoyed them for a couple of months, reveling in what I was hearing. Time came to give them back, which I really was sad to do. Determined i would have to get a set of my own. Replaced them with the old cable. Everything still sounded good. I could not find fault with the system.

Possible conclusions;

1. I am a hopeless audiophile wannabe who should be banned from any audio show room hencewith.

2. The MIT cables magically transformed my system when I installed them and somehow left their goodness there even after they were removed.

3. My expectation of how good I expected those MITs to be clouded my judgement and dimmed by auditory memory sufficiently that I could fool myself.

4. The MIT cables did change the sound and I heard that and thought it was "better", but the change back to the original was not as drastic as I had expected and I discovered I liked that "flavor" just as much as the MITs.