Why Don't More People Love Audio?

Lrsky and Jult52, I agree as well. I did away with TV years ago. It is a brainwashing and dumbing-down tool. The movie Network, where the masses were throwing their TV' out the windows..."I'm mad as hell and I'm not gonna take it anymore!"

First of all let me expand my comment. (As long as my answers and comments generally are, how could I possibly expand, you might ask).
The issue at hand has to do with television only peripherally imho.
A given is that we have limited time during a day/night in which to recreate. With children and a job, recreation shrinks--with a wife it shrinks more...and so on.
The question is, 'What do we chose to do with our time?'
When I mentioned Television, it wasn't 'blaming television' for the lack of hobbiests...it was noting what's probably happening. People CHOSE to do what they will...television is a device that allows us to bask in the glow of something that allows our brains to go into neutral...chewing gum for the mind, if you will.
If the allure of music was stronger, people would flock to it...so in my mind, the question is, 'Why isn't the allure of music strong enough to overcome other activities?'
It is with me, even though I do gravitate to the TV all too often.
No, for whatever reasons, music does not hold the enormous 'sway' that it does with 'some people'...those of us who ask this question are obviously in the minority.
But the confusing thing is...like the girl I mentioned in my post...once shown this, she was enthralled, captivated, overwhelmed with emotion and visceral response...so apparently music--wonderful music, for all it's PR, is still the most well kept secret in entertainment--why, is the question?

One of my long time friends, Joe and I always fall back to this comment--"Music does things to and for me, that nothing else can do."
This is a mystery to me.

As Yogi Berra would have said..."If people aren't going to listen to music--you can't stop them."

Good listening,

Larry

i think there is a tendency to overcomplicate a simple situation.

people are unique in there chice of hobbbies or activities they prefer. music is just one activity. there are many others.

why single out music as if there is something special or different, from say, reading, going to the theter, or eating out.

certain activities are perhaps more popular than others. it may be economic, it may be a lack of appreciation--think schooling.

consider it like you would another hobby, like tennis or golf.

it really is no more productive to analyze the interest in music as it would be to analyze the interest in golf.

just accept it and move on.

I agree with many of the fellow members and their various opinions. For the most part is more like the amount of investment you spend on any given component. when I mentioned one of my loudspeakers costing $5500 retail like my ohm walsh or any of my loudspeakers costing more then $2000 retail, they'd rather spend their money on something else. To them spending $1500 or more on a turntable is ridiculous or a cd player. Most people are happy with the mid fi mass market audio and video sold at your local stores or best buy, circuit city etc. Hardly anyone goes inside bestbuy's MAGNOLIA and buys anything. High end audio tends to drive people away because of the ultra high prices. What kind of people are going to spend $100k loudspeakers or more costing the price of a home? Even $30k, that's the price of japanese sports car. The price of high end audio especially ultra high end is beyond the reach of most people, that is why unless high end as a whole becomes affordable to the masses, don't expect any change of views. It's the same with anything else, how many people are going to shop for a lambhorgini?

Of all the musicians, music fanatics, and recording industry people I know, none of them are into high end audio. I'm involved in a couple music forums, and some of the people there will go to huge lengths to acquire hard to get recordings, insisting that they are in lossless format, but have very modest systems. Most of them use the stock audio card on their computer and run of the mill stereos or computer speakers. They are uninterested in my occasional hi-fi ramblings. Unconvinced at what a difference an outboard DAC (even a cheap one) will make. The same seems to be true of most of my musician friends.

This to me blows away the argument that if people really put a priority on music, they'd appreciate hi-fi. Although some audiophiles may be music fans, hi-fi often becomes a means unto itself. And the music fanatics probably understand what a good system will do, but are content in that they don't need one to enjoy their music.

Cause most people couldnt hear a difference between them unless the circumstances were extreme. I've been in the music industry for along time, and it never ceases to amaze me how many people can't hear music at all. Most wouldn't know clear from buzzy. Lossless from a low quality ripped mp3. And I won't even get into bright and warmth, and a smooth top to bottom speaker. This is from people who are in the recording/studio industry!!

If a person could tell the difference, they would spend the money. It's not a matter of rich vs poor IMO. Most people think Bose is still great, just because the marketing says so, and the fact there ears can't tell them otherwise.

Just my opinions

It is certainly puzzling, to say the least. I have a friend who I grew up with. We both love music in the recorded and live form. On a couple of occasions I have offered to do a demo at my house with a couple of speaker and amps types, but to no avail. He is fine plugging his iPod into his car stereo and listening to that. The same thing at home, Ipod into a tiny little planar speaker, and I mean tiny. We both started out on the same road in high school and college, with similar systems. Puzzling, especially as he is highly intelligent and makes exceptional money. I dunno, I just gave up. :)

'Why Don't More People Love Audio?'

Do you really have to ask? Just read this forum for a few days and then try to imagine what a newbie to audio would think.

A more precise question would be; why aren't more people obsessed with audio EQUIPMENT, TWEAKS and Accessories?

I love to watch sports, both in person and (mostly) on TV. But I could care less if it's on a big screen, Hi Def, etc. My friend has a big screen Hi Def surround system and now that I think of it he chides me because I have, and am perfectly happy with, my lo def 20" screen or whatever it is with the TV speakers. His super system really does nothing to enhance my experience.
Never really thought of it before, but I guess it's similar to what Dalecrommie describes about his friend (except for the highly intelligent and exceptional money parts).

Sebrof:

Yours is most likely the correct explanation. Your comparison about the televisons was right on target. I have a 20+ year old TV because there is not a lot on the tube I want to see.

hi stthomas:

being able to hear the difference does not imply one will care, or spend money on audio equipment.

the issue is how important is availing oneself of excellence of sound or other aesthetic endeavors.

let me make an analogy.

suppose one has powers of discrimination when it comes to wine tasting. there is no guarantee that such a person will buy the "better" wine or even drink wine.

I think all of the last several posts are on target, namely that people have different tastes and passions. I guess this gets back to the question of why fewer are involved in high end audio reproduction. I expect several things are going on. One we are now a much older average age population now. Two, there are many other passions available now, such as video, gaming, digital picture and video taking, and involvement in social media.

I have two stories. Long ago I had a famous pianist friend and while at his house, I asked what his stereo system was like. He showed me a Webcor portable record player in his office. Seeing my amazement, he said he only listened for the performer's interpretation, not the music, which was all in his head.

Second story, my 16 year old grandson was listening to Pinky Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon on his Ipod. I heard it and asked him to come to my listening room where I played the record. He said it did not even sound like the same recording and was wowed. He asked if I had a drum record (he plays drums in a jazz group), I played one. And he exclaimed, that this was closer to what he heard when he played, but still wasn't there. After a while he left with his ear buds back in and playing music.

Different strokes for different folks. But I should say that he is now interested in having better speakers and audio in his room.

They are busy watching their home theatres in surround sound .

Well, lots of people love audio by definition, from the folks tapping their toes while on the train, white earbuds jammed in their heads, to people who drive around the block, because their favorite song is on the radio and only halfway done.

As to why don't more people love the hobby of audio, because it's a pain in the butt. It's expensive, maddening and the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow keeps moving.

Rich people want elegance and convenience, oftentimes. There are indeed rich folks who are totally into high end. But again, they tend to get stuff, and keep it. Done. I think most people understand that music is music, and reproduction is reproduction. Songs that make me cry, have that quality whether it's a download to my phone, or at home in the listening room.

It's that quality that makes most people say, why bother? It's all a question of what you're into. I'm a racing cyclist, who pedals in anger on a rig that, retail, would cost north of 10k. Why? It allows me to maximize my effort. For someone else, a $400 Trek hybrid bike is all they need.

It's the same with audio.

Because:
1) Doesn't increase their enjoyment of music.
or
2) Not a status symbol.

Value,

If they can get the price down they can mass market it. But look how it is now. For the price of a high end computer Audiofites can't even buy one wire. The computer has 80% of the sound at 5% the price. If they said for double the price of the computer you could have ultimate sound. Somebody might go for it. But the way it is, double the price of a computer will barely by one component. And the Audiofites do not agree what that one component should be.

I suspect this sentiment has already been expressed, but as a neophyte audiophile (meaning, I am learning an audiophile appreciation for sound, but may or may not ever have the resources to support the hobby), high end audio is like a foreign language.

At the Capital Audio Fest last weekend, I had limited time, and didn't recognize enough names to even guess which rooms would be best to visit. And saying that, I've grown up with a Dad who is into vintage audio, so I understand some part of the audiophile world, but the names I recognize are often of companies that are no longer around, from a time when no one would have dreamed of spending thousands (or even hundreds) of dollars on cable.

My impression of newer audio is that it is very hard to access. The friends I know who are well off are all that way because they work hard, and they try to be knowledgable in their hobbies. The entry hurdle for even speaking the language of high-end audio is simple too esoteric to make it a good value equation for most people with lots of disposable income.

And music is a time-consuming hobby in and of itself. Collecting and keeping track of high-quality source material, plus then making the time to listen to it, especially time to listen without distractions, is almost unthinkable.

B&O exists because it succeeds in providing an upmarket product that is visually appealing, fits in with high-end decor, and sounds better than Bose--at least in in-store demos. It's also in place in the right kinds of shopping areas, that cater to other high-dollar shopping habits. It also takes very little time to understand, set up or enjoy.

At some point with wealth, convenience seems to be the trump card, and high-end audio is not convenient and certainly not quickly accessible.

Some people are afraid of feeling emotions because then they are not in control of themselves. Other people do not have an emotional response to music so it does nothing for them.

There is definitely a different type of emotional component from listening to music that does not happen with other activities, like bungee jumping for example.

what does music and emotion have to do with so-called 'high end' audio? A person can experience emotion from listening to music on a boom box or table radio. Or even just humming a tune to yourself.

one can analyze the question until the cows come in , but there is an obvious answer.

people have different tastes. some like boats, expensive cars, art objects, etc. . those who are passionate about a particular hobby, may have no interest in another.

time is also a consideration. if someone is involved in other pursuits, there may be no time left for another hobby which is time consuming

think of a persons's available leisure time as a pie. the pie is divided into slices. each slice may represent a desired activity. for some, audio is not a desirable activity because other interests will supersede it.

it's just a matter of priorities.

Has anything changed in the 12 years since this thread was started?

Judging by how many posts this thread has received, I think many people do love audio.

And that's cool...strength in numbers is key. but let's make our voices heard!

My boss has clearly stated to me "I don't like music." I did not know this opinion was even possible and in my 46 years on this planet its the first time I've heard of this. I would imagine there's more people out there like this but I doubt ill ever meet another in my lifetime. No sense in trying to convert someone who probably never even turned on the car stereo.

Fascination for good music reproduction or appreciation of the same, is a God given gift that very few of us have. And I am happy that I am one of them.

'My boss has clearly stated to me "I don't like music'

Actually, this is more common among audiophiles than you might think.

it is not surprising that people express a distaste for anything. there is an expression in latin that is very old and expresses such a thought:

de gustibus est non disputandem (i hope i spelled the last word correctly)

there are a lot of people who are iconoclastic when it comes to pop culture.

i certainly think that a love of music is very common among the populace.

i think there is a connotation implied by the question, namely a superciliousness regarding certain genres of music, which may account for a small minority of audiophiles in the world.

it would be interesting to find out , among audiophiles, what percentage does not like popular music.

i suspect that more than 50 percent of audiophiles have an appreciation of classical music. i suspect that this genre is the least popular, and it may explain why there are so few audiophiles. it follows logically that if i am correct, the number of audiophiles may diminish over time, if there is a high correlation berween age and love for classical music.

Classical music is the only genre that demands high end audio systems. Timbre is everything in classical music and the 'groups' can range from a soloist to over 100 in a full blown orchestra. But, it seems to me, that the people that 'talk' about the music they like on this site, seem to lean towards small pop music groups that could and can be reproduced easily by a Bose table radio. Of course we are all guilty of 'over kill' when it comes to equipment, but thats part of the enjoyment of this hobby.
Cheers.

10-08-12: Rok2id
Classical music is the only genre that demands high end audio systems.

Your opinion, not a fact.

'Your opinion, not a fact.'

Are you suggesting that every word uttered on every post on this site is, or has to be a FACT!!! Maybe it's the way I talk. I get this alot and no one else seems to.

IMHO IMHO IMHO IMHO

Too busy listening to music?

Good point Mapman. I know plenty of music lover's that don't think twice about the sound. They're probably the lucky ones.

I fell into it at a very young age because I was the youngest of 5 music lover's so I was surrounded by music and a stereo in each bedroom. If it weren't for that who knows what would have happened. My parents weren't into music much at all, just my grandmother who would play Perry Como, the piano and would sing to us. (I know is misspelled Perry's name but.....).

I believe MOST people have no idea what high end audio equipment is. Once they've heard it... many people with money will buy it. How do you expose these people to this kind of equipment? The saying ... You know what you know, but you don't know what you don't know, applies. If you don't know it's out there and you stumble across a local store, that may, or may not have high end equipment to demo... You might be intimidated by the sales person. What questions could you possibly ask about something you know nothing about? Many very wealthy people depend on industry experts to choose their gear for them, if it isn't what they want, they depend on them to sell it for them too. Convenience is key!

Who cares??

Nobody knows.

Easy,
Snobbishness, elitism and stuffiness of a lot of audiophiles. Prices go up as economy sours. It almost like a polo club business plan.

Having introduced some non-audiophile people to better audio over the years, I think that the audiophile world would do better by encouraging the building of low cost, high bang for the buck systems. Non audiophiles who have listened to the systems I have had over the years have responded with, "I didn't even know there was piano in this song", "this rocks so much more then it normally sounds like", "how much would it cost to get a system that sounds like this? "

Come on 120,000 speakers, 60,000 amps, 6,000 cables, the average, and I think right in this case, person, says to himself"these people are idiots". Just think for 120,00 you could go to a lot of concerts and hear what music really sounds like.

By staying so non approachable, audiophile stereo has albatrossed itself with an aging and shrinking customer base. I think they need to become more relevant, price, market and culture wise.

I tend to agree with Charker.

But there are many choices out there for anyone interested, like always, from the cheapest mass produced garbage to the biggest and most expensive "high end" gear. VEry few who like audio probably pay all that much attention to the "high end" as represented on Audiogon. The Internet is the main source of stuff to buy however these days, not walk in stores.

There is a lot of good stuff to be found on Audiogon but little or no quality control to go with it. If you do not know what you are doing, you can waste a lot of money in the pursuit of "high end" sound. But if you are one who likes to tinker with expensive audio gear and tweaks, more power to ya. But that is a very small % of teh people out there who love music or even audio to any extent.

Mapman, but I know many of them. They tend to not be "technical" in the university sense of the word, but rather military or self trained.

"Mapman, but I know many of them. They tend to not be "technical" in the university sense of the word, but rather military or self trained."

Lots of reasons why people like to tinker. Formal education is not a pre-requisite. I've been doing it with audio gear since I was 8 years old or so. People are curious beasts.

********Why Don't More People Love Audio?**********

One of the Great Philosophical Questions Facing Mankind. Great minds have not been able to answer it. I doubt if anyone on this site will be able to provide THE answer.

Cheers

Distracted, by other forms of media.

This thread is probably dead, but I'll give it a try anyway. More people would love audio if they were the target audience of the advertising world. We all know that people in certain age brackets will buy anything that is targeted at them. Nobody can afford to target the high end at more people. Look at Beats. Half-assed $500 headphones that every kid on earth would own if they could. Because they got some cool guys telling them they're good. So they are. If Mark Levinson or B&W or Naim had Puffy or whomever the kids emulate tell them 100 times a day that they had to have a Levinson/Wilson system, they would kill themselves to own one. But the companies aren't willing to put up the millions it takes to buy these guys. Do you think Jeter really drives a Ford Edge? He probably wouldn't use one as his toilet. The kids obviously love music - they listen to it constantly, so it's just a matter of convincing them how to do it. No problem for Madison Avenue. I just wish it would happen. Really.

This question could be asked by a wood worker, baker, gamer, quilt or model maker. Here's you answer. It's expensive and you sit on your arse to do it.

"It's expensive and you sit on your arse to do it. "

Bingo????

It's a great hobby for all of us but some people like to be more active in their bobbies. We don't tend to share but amongst ourselves on these forums. A wood worker or model builder likes to create and show off. We create our system but tend to keep it a secret. I fully understand why there's not more audiophiles. Some people just don't have the time, money or interest. My last boss to,d me he didn't like music. Now there's a question. Who doesn't like music?

I'd venture to guess that (due to the whole 'cost-vs-complexity' thing) we're almost 'forced' to keep it a secret. I mean people tend to get different results with different systems anyway. Heck, even experienced audiophiles can often end up disagreeing on what it takes to get started and build a good system. Experience at system building can be harder to come by than many newcomers may even suppose and they may be either at sea about who to go to for advice they feel they can count on or don't quite realize how much of a learning curve there can be...or maybe they DO sense that and believe it will be overwhelming or time-consuming. At any rate, I tend to suspect that it's perhaps somehow even rare to actually be "bitten by the bug" in the first place. Poll most audiophiles and you may find that among many 'hardcore' ones, anyway, they not only often trace their interest back into their childhood, but can also relate it to even a specific event - a moment in which things crystallized for them, and some kind of dream is born. I know I can. But, maybe I'm right about that and maybe I'm not, I guess.

"Poll most audiophiles and you may find that among many 'hardcore' ones, anyway, they not only often trace their interest back into their childhood, but can also relate it to even a specific event - a moment in which things crystallized for them, and some kind of dream is born. I know I can. But, maybe I'm right about that and maybe I'm not, I guess."

You nailed it exactly in my case!

When I was about 5 years old, I became fascinated with records and record players. The one I had did not work very well though. One day, I was twiddling with it and got a nice electrical shock. I've been a glutton for punishment ever since!

That's a true story, but seriously, I don't need anyone else to love listening to my system. I'm by far the most picky about what sounds good to me. It's a non-issue for most everyone else. THough I am glad to listen and share together when opportunities present themselves.

Mapman: :) My parents had a Gerrard console that was built-in to a living room cabinet. Not the greatest fidelity, by any stretch, but it was STEREO - something rather rare among anyone I knew in the early 60's. I was turning 5 at the time and I still remember it just plain doing a number on my young imagination! Also recall consciously vowing to one day get a job like my Dad (whatever the heck THAT was...!) and someday learn what it would take to get a good stereo, just as soon as I was old enough to be on my own...

It’s too hard. If you’re an enthusiast of most higher endeavors, e.g., exotic cars, watches, etc., you get what you pay for; and it’s instant gratification. If you learn how to drive a Bugatti, it will perform as expected and never be outperformed by a Porsche. Not so with audio. You can spend your life's savings and years fidgeting with your system and still not come close to achieving what you set out to do.

Phaelon, The Bugatti is a total package not parts you put together. At a time when I first started in audio, there were few manufacturers, so you had a Dyna, Heath, Marantz, etc. system or at least their electronics. Also, what do you "not outperformed by a Porsche? In mileage, it might be.

I think it is just a matter of what else you might spend your money and time on. I had receivers and speakers, no television, no computer, only a land line with long distance charges, no earbuds or Iphones, and I was poor. With today's youth, there is time only to text.