Why Don't More People Love Audio?

Maybe because most people don't want / use the classic stereo setup for music anymore?

 

 

Wow, this is a great thread and an astonishing read.
Everything in here is factual. To add my pennies worth 18 years after the inception of this thread I may be a little late in the game. FWIW here are my experiences. I started my audiophile journey in my early 20s with the best I could afford. Akai, Sony, Pioneer, Yamaha, Adcom, B&K, Krell, and culminating with Lexicon. Along with the electronics speaker upgrades were a natural companion such as RS, Fisher, Boss 901, Polk etc finishing with B&W. My early stereo days lost their way and ended up in HT. I was satisfied. I remember distinctly before HT going to friends and LISTENING to albums and enjoying it. After HT, we were all tuned in, it was a concert feast at concert levels. Social interaction declined to just kicking back together since any kind of comment could not be heard. It was fun but missing something. As I was the oldest I retired and had more time to just relax and listen. And I did just that. And as I did just that on my satisfactory HT I exponentially felt that what I thought was great sounding was no longer satisfying. HT was missing someting. Never having experienced the Tube sound I saved and purchased a integrated tube. Wow what a incredible ear opener that was. I again LISTEN to the music. With time on my hands I sit alone, just me and my system and I hear and feel all the nuance, inflection and mood of the artist (s), instruments and band interaction. I regained my audiophile concience lost to HT. My friends come over and proclaim the tube sound superior but soon are tired of just LISTENING and up come the concert DVD with all the sensory input and volume levels at the expense of audio quality and it’s purity. HT on the best equipment made cannot equal the joy of musical reproduction in a properly set up HE stereo system and environment. Visits for just LISTENING as before HT are non existent. Such is the lot of the audiophile. Alone with the music......... and it’s all good.

In Music programs (Public, Private, Parochial, it doesn't really matter, but if you're interested, the Parochial fared the best, and I take no pleasure in saying it, because those gigs are the ones that pay the most execrably) kids can't be bothered with learning how to listen (both to themselves and to the group) critically anymore.  I have a small number who TRY and who GET IT.  They get annoyed by the "too bored to care" crowd and retention levels drop.  I tried to pitch towards the one's who "got it" but the other environmental "chaos generators" made it increasingly impossible.  Anything past that gets seriously OT.  But things (with respect to High Fidelity) are like they are for a reason.  Frederick Fennell taught two or three generations of Youth what was what.  And now, very few (if any) have any idea who he was or why they should care.  The guy whom Reagan quoted about gamers being the fighter pilots of tomorrow came out and said "oops, I was wrong".  It's contained in a Frontline series (regarding Education) and that subsection was called "Distracted By Everything".  Multitasking is a post modern myth.  One is great, two is doable and more than that are varying levels of "unremarkable".  Studying (reading/performing/interpreting) Music is one of the VERY few things that swings that needle back in the direction we'd all like to see it go.  (Kinesthetic learning is one area of research that bears this out....)  Off soapbox.  Sorry.....

Insight from a retired Musician/Teacher/Audio restorer?  Most people (over the age of 40 or so now, more than ever) have never been TAUGHT to listen critically.  Don't believe me?  Here's a non "My Brand's awesome and yours is pathetic" analogy:  Old analog lines were hum prone, and (depending on moisture and changing ground potential issues/atmospheric conditions) could have static or some low level buzz.  But you heard EVERY WORD in spite of it.  (Similar cases have been made about vinyl surface noise or tape hiss as well.)  Now think about the massively "detail" destroying compression algorithms and noise gates on Cell Phones.  (I won't even go into texting......it turns out we've gone backwards there as well.....)  I get the first and last words of sentences obliterated (both directions) constantly.  We've been trained to NOT listen.  We've been conditioned to accept what we're given, and we think it's AWESOME.  (It ain't.  Drop all the games and tomfoolery and give me a frikkin' phone that doesn't sound like a party line from the Pleiades, please.)  Off soapbox.  If I sound old, I am.  But I remember seeing Soylent Green when I was about thirteen.  I ain't going that quietly, lol....

Per Albert's July entry, I went back and read the "July" posts, and I must say, I think some folks are 'overthinking' this subject!

When folks in our Western (or Western-ized) culture have discretionary time-and-money (not already reserved for other things -- including savings and/or philanthropy) they usually spend it on some kind of EXPERIENCE which they find STIMULATING.

"Stimulation" is for humans what sunlight is for plants: it leads to experience(s) that make us grow. And as we all know, living things will grow (and CHANGE!) -- because things that don't grow and change are usually dead!

The reason I became enthralled with high fidelity audio reproduction (about 60 years ago,) was because I was just blown away (stimulated!) by the experience of hearing a (seemingly) live performance without any performers! I realized how the wealthy and privileged (before technology) lived when they alone could have music or other live entertainment literally "on demand"!

I realized that with the "right" equipment, I could have the entire world of performance right there in my home. I was totally consumed by that particular form of stimulation; and the amazing personal growth it provided me, almost as an afterthought!

The thing is, when I tried to share my enthusiasm with others (after the smoke-filled 60's that is!) I was not finding many kindred spirits. And I too wondered "Why Don't more People Love Audio?" When I "forced the question" on certain friends, artists and others whose perception I trusted, I was basically told that although they were charmed and excited by MY enthusiasm, that they didn't find it STIMULATING enough to THEM, and would never put that much time/money/effort into creating an audio system like mine -- although they were VERY grateful for being able to bring a record or CD over to my house to listen to on my system from time to time!!

And I think if you will take a minute and reflect on your closest, most interesting or exciting friends who DON'T have even a modest playback system -- maybe a Bose? -- you will probably realize (if they REALLY are interesting and exciting!) that they are crazy/passionate about something else that they find endlessly stimulating! Maybe something you never even noticed, because you were trying so desperately to get them interested in your audio system!

Yes, music is a "universal language." But high fidelity music REPRODUCTION is NOT a universal language, and only a small percentage of the population finds it particularly stimulating -- which is why more people don't love audio ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

.

Easy answer, have you read the cable threads lately?

If marketed better your "rich friends" would be all about high end audio.

This last bunch of “July” posts are wonderful, love the comments by Alpha_gt and those in response to his thoughts.

Also agree about the Piano, the large LP collection and Hi-Fi generation. It’s nice to reflect on these ideas without regard to specific equipment brands.

Cdc, you're correct, unfortunately there is no user manual when it comes down to buying audio gear and or trying to assemble a good sounding system. But if you have been in the hobby long enough you just know when you have reached that point of perfection. You might say that's it! that's the sound I've been looking for. I have reached this point on several occasions with different components only to screw it up later because I couldn't leave well enough alone. I think I'm more disciplined now.

The Hi-Fi "generations" (those music lovers who desire/d and are/were willing to pay for good sound, born no later than, say, the 1960's) were looking to get their recordings to sound as much like live music as possible. Music lovers born after that grew up hearing only non-acoustical live music, so Hi-Fi music reproduction doesn't have as much meaning or value to them. Something like that, anyway.

But even my contemporaries (we're in our 60's), both musicians and civilians ;-), don't seem to be able to sit still long enough to just listen to music. People will sit and watch a movie, but not just sit and listen to music---they get restless, fidgety even. They need to be doing something while music is playing, not give it their focused attention. The quality of currently made music could have something to do with it!

Well back in the 19th century many folks in this country purchased pianos which was a BIG purchase and it was more about enjoying music by actually playing it. Of course there were always live performances as well. The "piano in the home" trend continued well into the 20th century peaking in the first decade until sales gradually diminished with the introduction of reproduced music, the phonograph and later radio.

What does good sound look like? People can see the difference between a supercar and a regular car. High end audio can be difficult to define as it is largely opinion based (IMHO) so how does someone know what to buy? It is not an easy task. As people have said here, just throwing money at the problem is no guarantee of success. It is not a project suited for today's microwave mentality.
As for not living without music, I enjoy reproduced sound like every one here. But has there ever been a time in history other than now when reproduced sound existed? What did people do before the last century to satisfy their craving for music?

That's very true Mapman, very true indeed. I just don't see why one should preclude the other. In other words, I may actually listen to more hours of music with my humble collection than he who owns more records than he could ever listen to. I have noticed that my frequent listening stack of records, about 20 to 30 albums I keep to the front, hasn't changed all that much. While half of them my be newer albums, or old gems I am revisiting, the other half are old favorites that I find myself reaching for again and again. A true classic never gets old.

And thanks Phd, I wish I could have been a reviewer!

e more music you listen to the more you need a good hifi. It's that simple.

Alpha_gt, thanks for sharing, I found your post both interesting and refreshing.

I recall a letter to Stereophile, way back when they were a small paperback book format. A reader claimed he owned some 24,000 records! And according to him, this made him the ultimate audiophile, and anyone with less than 10,000 albums should not be allowed to voice an opinion. They printed his letter, with no rebuttals. I was flabbergasted! That anyone could have such a snobbish attitude about stereo! I did the math, and it would be impossible for him to listen to even half of his records in his whole life. If he played 10 albums a night, every night without fail, and never played the same one twice, it would take nearly 7 years! While my measly collection consisted of around 500 at that time, I thought to myself, if you owned but one album that you truly enjoyed, that moved your soul, then you had a right to own a nice system to hear it on! Now maybe one album is an exaggeration, but you get my point. My collection swelled to nearly a thousand, at one time, but I took all the ones that I didn't like and sold them, spent the money on more gear! Perhaps that makes me a gear head? Talking about the different kinds of Audiophiles, I do think there are ones who are more about their collection, and others who are more about the gear, even though they do go hand in hand.

I do like some classical, a little jazz, but am a rock fan most of all, and have been to hundreds of rock concerts. And believe me, no one wants to reproduce a rock concert! Very few that I would ever say sounded good. But! When I am critically listening to my music I am hearing the studio venue, and a good recording from a good engineer can take me to that place. That I feel like I was in that room where the music was recorded, in the studio with those musicians. And being a musician, I know what that sounds like. And perhaps therein lies the difference between regular people and audiophiles? Do normal people analyze music? Do they critically listen for those minute details?

Especially when young people are in the room, I will ask them, "Do you know what instrument that is?", "What instrument is making that sound?", and I am often amazed that they have no idea! They aren't even listening. They are singing along to the words, but are paying no attention to the actual music at all. And I also see that is an issue with modern pop music, it's all about the style and personality of the singer, and their accompaniment is a Casio keyboard. If Audiophilia is on the decline, perhaps it's partially due to the fact that modern music does not benefit from a good system? Perhaps if youngsters were exposed to better music then it would increase their interest in better reproduction? When I say youngster, I'm referring to those under 30, younger than me, let's say.

Roxy54, it is perfectly fine to notice writing errors as I have in the past with other members. In addition it is difficult to be taken seriously under these circumstances but I think sometimes we get careless. If anyone should have a PHD, that person should be yourself, great minds do think alike.

Phd,
Just to be clear, I'm as far from a PhD as can be. I also make frequent spelling and grammatical errors. I think that I am overly sensitive to the frequent misuse of "there" and "their".
If you take notice, many posters use the two words incorrectly every day, most commonly using "there" when they mean "their". It's surprising how often it happens, even in printed reviews!
It's equally surprising that the error is most often made by posters whose first language is obviously English.

live music is my ultimate reference. But of course there is a continuum of quality and scale even with live sound. Live music consists of players venues and listeners just like home audio. All good sound have two things in common low noise and distortion. Other than that anything is possible. One either enjoys or not. The most useful metric for how good something sounds to an audiophile is probably hours listened. If one spends a lot of time listening and even goes out of ones way to and comes away satisfied. That is all one can hope for. Then there is always to what extreme one chooses or feels compelled to go in order to be satisfied. No right or wrong there. The best never comes easy.

Actually, to be completely fair, the sentence should have read,

"Anyway it is hard to imagine any Audiophile being completely satisfied with his current system yet few state they are."

Cheers!

Tubegroover, I think my career as a professor living in college communities best explains our somewhat different perspectives. The auditorium at my university where I taught for 32 years is positively awful. The university chose to use absorbent material all around the audience seating area and to use speakers to rebroadcast the music from the stage after going through an echo chamber. Furthermore the sides of the stage have broad panels of fluted concrete running floor to ceiling. I have found the only good seats are second row center so all you hear is near field.

I used to go to Chicago's loop often and sought ticket to hear performances there. This is my total experience with quality orchestral works. I also taught briefly in London and heard great performance there.

My other passion is jazz, and for this I have personal experiences over the years, but I long for hearing the old guys at their best.

So I went to Stage III to hear what I've missed. I must say that my guest has been rewarded best the last five years. It is very fragile. When all is right the involvement in the music, the emotion of the performers, and the thrill of realism, frequently cause me to want to jump up and yell bravo!

I should also say that reviewing causes me to often lose these experiences until my reference system settles down.

I appreciate your kind words as well as shared experiences. Thankfully my hearing is still quite good.

Roxy54, thank you for pointing out my typo and after rereading my post I have come to the conclusion you only got it partially right. There are two other errors. I misspelled Oreagonpapa user name and used the word knowledgeable instead of knowledge, I feel ashamed but at least you know my responses came from a person and were not computer generated.

"So I think there are three types of audiophiles. Stage I is loving music and replacing hearing it live with cheap audio equipment. Stage II is loving music that is well reproduced. And Stage III is great reproduction and realism."

Tbg, that post of your's back on 2-9 really rung a bell with me as it in some ways mirrors my own evolution. However your 3 stages of audiophiles given above does not include ALL types of "audiophiles". I know PLENTY of audiophiles that have a rudimentary level of music knowledge and limited musical tastes and seem more focused on sound reproduction than music itself. Many of these guys spend an inordinate amount of time on a sound that is pleasing to them. Many of these guys also gravitate towards the quality of recordings OVER music content. Some of these guys know much less about music than many music loving friends and family members that are NOT audiophiles nor have any aspirations of becoming one. One of the first questions I generally get from them is "how much did this cost you?" These music lovers ARE aware of well reproduced audio equipment but have neither the time, space, finances or ultimately interest to pursue it. For them they can enjoy from a simple playback system as well. What got ME into it was the complete lack of satisfaction of symphonic music through my receiver, tt and modest speakers which had changed over a period of 20 years as a teenager to the time I discovered, as did you, well reproduced. When you see a live performance by a world class orchestra it is very humbling coming home and listening to music that gets very little close to what you just experienced.

The issue of the Stage III audiophile is interesting. I have found myself limited to Stage II for the simple fact that #1 I don't have the resources, space or committment to pursue it and most importantly #2 While it might be a worthy goal to try and capture the intangable elements that separate live music from reproduced, I have yet to hear a system to date that actually does that or quite honestly even approaches it. The bigger, the greater the resolution, the deeper the bass the MORE of everything just highlights, too often to me, the absolute importance of the recording so as to not be distracted by the shortcomings of the whole. Then there is the actual experience of a live performance over reproduced. What is most important to me is getting closer to the music itself, set-up, vibration isolation, power etc., maybe Mapman's point, without sweating on making it sound live, spoken like a true Stage II audiophile I suppose. I certainly admire your goals and would love to hear your system, particularly since you are passionate about symphonic music and are seriously attempting to recreate it in your home. You and those like you have my deepest respect and admiration.

Phd,
Are you really a Phd?, I ask because you wrote their instead of they're.

I'm not getting it either but we know that people don't like the same things. Maybe the question should read: "How do we get more people interested in audio".

Anyway it is hard to imagine any Audiophile being completely satisfied with their current system yet few state they are. Maybe the ones that have spent years of trial and error have reached this point and or have accumulated enough knowledgeable to finally reach their objectives.

On an earlier post Oregopapa mentions that some people live a shallow life because their homes lack books and music, I agree, it could be they are extremely busy or they truly are shallow, in fact these same people don't even know their alive. Music is the universal language, a proverbial time machine but more importantly it is relaxing and enjoyable. Coming home to a good system is like finding an oasis in a vast desert.

Mapman, sorry I don't understand what you are saying in this post.

Tbg not sure what needs explaining. Assuming high standards to start not all achieve results to their satisfaction as fast or easily. That's pretty much how all of life works. Ability to learn and apply knowledge is probably the most important ingredient in any endeavor.

I'm better now than I have ever been prior I think. So I'm making progress. I have been mostly satisfied with how my stuff sounds now for a few years. That has not always been the case in the past. I've learned a lot from others on this site in recent years.

How about you?

Mapman, as usual this is again your argument. But this time I question the logic. First of all I could see the argument that were one to put a modest camera in the hands of a "good" photographer "great" photos result. I would say yes in the hand of a great photographer. Am I missing something here?

But the "skills" of the user determine the results. What is among the skills"? Good ears? Reading the specks? Knowing a good manufacturer? Is the same true that a good movie is determined by the user? Are there no better sounding units?

I think that a good chef tends to have good foods, but most do favor a good source for their meat, veggies, wine, etc.

Finally, are you skilled?

Home audio is like photography. Put an even modest camera in the hands of a good photographer and great photos result. Same true with home audio. In the end it's the skills of the user that determine the results. Most results will be average but many can and will be quite excellent even on a modest budget with less than sota gear.

Yeah, it's not so appealing to just sit and listen anymore--back in the 70's, this was normal, though. Music on a system was a social event--music and party--sit around and listen. TV was not engaging--didn't look good then, not even with a VHS tape. Hi-def screens at home are an event now. No computers, no cell phones, no texting, no social media back then. Rotary-dial phone on a curly cord--from home. Back then, you went out to see a movie--then it looked good. Music was what you did at home on a regular basis, or call someone on the phone, but you had to sit there. People are more distracted these days--too many options--this even bugs me--I sit and listen to my system, but have my laptop in front of me for FB, etc. Have to fold the screen down to really listen, then it comes up again, etc.

Alpha_gt, I know what you mean about people enjoying your music but not enough to get involved. I remember an instance back in the '70s when I had about thirty people sitting on the floor in my living room where the system was and listening to Simon and Garfinkel. Since then it is usually one local guy coming by or several audiophiles from around me in Texas. The former say "wow" and then leave.

Earlier there were no computers, no streaming or even personal systems with ear buds; now there are many entertainment items available. I must say, however, that many I knew long ago were not appreciative of realism in reproducing music. I build a good deal of my original systems using kits, but a pair of Infinity ServoStatic 1s put me on the slope to audiophildum.

Tostadosunidos, it's funny how that works. There was a point not real long ago where I was happy with a cheap Sharp receiver and cdp powering a set of AAL speakers.

I have a friend who was all about McIntosh equipment with a Thorens TT in the 70's. More recently he was fine with a BOSE Wave radio/CD combo that unnerved me to no end. I'm happy to say he's now into high-rez files, headphone amps and 4-figure phones. The prodigal son returns.

My system is barely high end by most of your standards. But I'm getting there! I've heard the awesome realism in salons, and know what I want! I am an audiophile, after all. But I have friends who come to my house, and we set around and drink while I play my stereo for our enjoyment. They love coming by to hear good music! So I ask, why don't you have a stereo? You make as much as me? Excuses already mentioned, "I've got kids", "the wife wouldn't allow it", "why should I when I can come here once a week?".

I think it's kind of like Radio. They came out with XM and Serious radio, better radio! Digital quality with no commercials! But people just didn't want it, they grew up thinking that music should be free! Or at least cheap. Even I refuse to subscribe, I'm happy with my analog FM tuner that runs for free.

Lots of people do enjoy good stereo! But they just don't love it enough to pay for it. Simple as that. When people ask what I paid for this or that, they always suck wind and whistle, or call me crazy. Even though they go out of their way to come to my house to listen, they wouldn't dream of spending their own money to hear it. I would never spent several thousand dollars to have a painting from a known artist hang in my house, few people would. Kind of the same thing, it's all in a persn's priorities. Few of us find good music important enough to part with the money, regardless of what your system costs. I recall at the salon a pair of B&K mono amps driving some Vandersteens with a Sota table, well under $10K, and it was amazing! Sure there are more expensive systems that sound even better, but it was very competent. I guess we should be happy that there are enough of us to have an industry at all! Recall back in the 50's, hi fi systems were home made! With amps scavenged out of old consoles and plywood horns, steel needles dragging around in lacquer platters, that has grown into quite the industry has it not?

The talk directly above brings to mind a couple of things: Seinfeld. It pretty much reflected where society and culture were at the time, and music was rarely mentioned though movies often were. Of course, the show was about actors. My sisters never listen to music by itself, but they didn't when we were kids, either. The TV is constantly on in their houses though, even when no one is watching it. Makes me crazy---I walk over and turn it off. I even know musicians who don't listen to any music but their own, and then on the crappiest system you can imagine---a boombox! High end to them is the speakers in their computer monitor.

Czarivey, I've been there and know what you are saying, But realism may not be achieved with in expense equipment, but I'm not saying, in the least, that if it is not quite expensive it cannot be good. I've certainly heard many very expensive pieces that I wouldn't pay one tenth of their price to own. One does need some flexibility in what one can afford.

they do but not expensive one.

I think this thread has gotten around to the real point that hearing realistic reproduction of music and the thrill of classic performances entails more than bookshelf speakers and a receiver sitting in one corner of your living room.

I started this hobby while in college and stayed low key through graduate school, two kids growing up, many moves, and a wife that went from being a nurse to a top hospital administrator. With the kids gone, she announced that she did not want her living room being a "laboratory." We moved into a house with a big game room, which became my man cave.

Now I have mono blocks, both vinyl and digital quality sources, 200 pound speakers, room treatments, quality cabling, using magnetics, vibration control, thousands of records, cds, scads, etc. I seldom watch anything other than NOVA, some college football and basketball games, a few other PBS programs, and morning news programs while I am either not in the room or engaged in Yoga.

Occasionally, a non-audiophile friend asks to hear my system or I demonstrate it for grandkids. Response is mainly, "it sounds real." And I can see they are ready to move on. In the past my kids while they were young would ask that my music be playing when they went to sleep.

Oh, and I have achieved incredible realism in my music. I'm happy.

I haven't read the whole thread but it is certainly interesting and varied. I write this from a perspective of having been once a devotee of high quality audio who set it to the side due to having two kids, a demanding profession and a wife who was not in the least going to give me the space to sit down and enjoy my system. Got rid of the wife. She gave me the kids, so more years in the wasteland without. 30 years.
Kids gone, something missing here. Oh yeah, why not.
Has NO IDEA all this existed at such a high level. Found out about BAT, VIP, Fidelity Research, Balanced cables, LOMC, Power Conditioners on and on. But I had to research, a lot of it here on Audiogon. Started looking and voila.
The take away here is that very few allow themselves the space to separate out and indulge. But I'm a music lover, live music has always been there for me. I really think if more people knew how close to the live music experience they could get with high end audio, more would be interested. Very poor marketing is a big part of it. And face it, it is an indulgence, ever how worthy it may be. People do little indulgences now and high end audio is not a small indulgence. It's just the times.

"I can...sit through movies, playes, concerts, etc. for hours." Well, a listening session is a concert in your home. Isn't that the whole point of exceptional sound?

I have books in my house , I had a pretty nice system going. I figured out that I enjoy listening to music through headphones more. So I bought a nice pair of Shure 846's.
I sold my system off and downgraded to a system that I'm thrilled with.

I realized that I was just too antsy to sit in the sweet spot for more than a couple of minutes. I can however sit through movies , plays, concerts , etc.
for hours.
I would think many people in today's times are the same way. To really enjoy a high end system , I think it's import to stay in the sweet spot. I don't need an eight grand system to dust around the room, do dishes in the next room over.

Oregonpapa,

That's fascinating about the homes without books and music.

Recently on another AVforum someone mentioned that they didn't really listen to music. I queried, perplexed by this, and he responded that he appreciated what music added to movies and games or whatever, but beyond that music just didn't interest him at all, he never listens to music.

Frankly, in all my life, I have never encountered such a creature. (Then again, I grew up in a very musical family, father being a music teacher, all of us playing instruments, everyone I know being into music).

Your post suggests this creepy, twilight-zone phenomenon is wider than I would have guessed.

My conclusion is that we have, fortunately, stumbled upon a way of telling the body-snatching pod people from real folk!

Already tons of good points made in this thread, obviously.

I have recently noticed the rather strange, yet somehow incredibly addicting, phenomenon of High End Audio being "displayed and demoed" on youtube. That is, both owners of stereo systems "playing" the system for the viewer, and then
tons and tons of video of systems playing music at high end audio shows.

Putting aside the issue of trying to ascertain a system's sound vie youtube...:-)...one thing that struck me in watching them reminded me of this thread:

When you see video of a bunch of audiophiles listening to high end systems, it does tend to invoke some of the negative cliche's. Mostly, it's a bunch of nerdy, middle aged white guys, leaning forward in their chairs, motionless, eyes closed or with furrowed brows, concentrating on the sound (or music). It looks, frankly, sort of stuffy and joyless, and not very social at all.

Now, I put on my system at home and love it. But, yeah, it's not easily amenable to a relaxed sociable setting, the type of which most people enjoy. I mean, if you are talking to someone over the sound, you are mostly missing the types of sonic features most of us are paying for in the first place.

I totally get why this is not a popular pass time, especially these days.

Amen to that brother.

Opapa - I too am surprised at the absence of not only quality playback gear, but usually no gear at all. Not just in nicer homes for sale, but also show homes on tour. It's not like these folks don't have the funds for it. It is simply off their radar. But then again, perhaps they are wealthy because they have not spent their fortune chasing audio gear. Hmm ...

I've been in the real estate business for 38 years, so you can imagine how many homes I've been into. During the busy seasons I'm into up to 50 homes a week. It has always amazed me how many homes ... and its the majority, that have NO books and NO music. They live a life as shallow as their flat screen TVs. Taking my books and music away would be like chopping off my right and left arms. I guess its just the way America is these days.

now were worried about the prices to get into this High End Audio having to come down so every Tom Dik and Harry can get in? I'm not sure I like the sound of that.)

Hmmm, wonder if that has anything has to do with the fact that you're one of those who sells high end audio?

Hmmmm, speaking of statistics, one wonders how many of the super rich are audiophiles. My guess is about 0.5%.

They will have the same reason they have had for a century,the greatest brainwashing mechanism planet earth has ever seen, US K-12 .

Geoffkait, with 42% of all wealth concentrated in 1% of the top wealthy, they are the ones with discretionary money to buy equipment. I am not worried about the need for prices to be reduced, I am worried about the impact of the loss of the middle-class. There is not much reason for them to support government.