Now I'm not talking about different opinions or an honest mistake, but a response that is clearly bad advice. Here's just one example.
Poster states that due to living in a small town and no larger town in a reasonable driving distance, he has no way to audition, so he's looking for helpful advice in considering an upgrade.
Then I see responses like, listen to as many as you can before deciding, take whatever to your local dealer to see how well they match, or find a good brick and mortar dealer to audition.
I see this happening more, so maybe it's just a sign of the times that many don't take the time to read the entire post and only respond to the title.
In this case such bad advice is unbelievably truthful.
Purchasing particular model over the internet drives you to take chance + shipping turnaround fees.
To me it's not affordable nor reasonable especially if dealing with speakers, therefore I would personally, if I were to live in the middle of nowhere, drive out of nowhere to where I can see and choose and purchase what I see, and therefore the advice would be according to what I would actually do. I would also highly doubt that none within 3 hours of driving would place for sale ad of high-rez audio equipment either on Craigslist or ebay. You can also use chance that you will get away someday to spend vacation and jump into previously mentioned B&M electronic store or dealer to finalize your upgrade or build system decision.
If you're 3...4 hours away from Chicago, or Minneapolis or New York or Las Vegas or any urban area, than that's what you have to do -- research for sale posted on the internet: craigslist, e-bay and move where you see most of what you actually need.
I particularly like when there is a response asking for a lot of information before a recommendation can be made, then nothing after the OP lists extensive info
Assume a poster asks a good question. He gets 10 answers of which only one is correct. How will he ever know which answer is right. So much for the value of anonymous advise. :-)
Thanks jl35, an excellent example, and yes, I have seen a stated budget, then responses like, what's your budget or as you say, a recommendation way over the budget.
Guess I wish everyone would just take the time to read and make a sensible response. Poor responses just muddy the discussion and may even confuse the OP.
I like the advice from various brand campaigners. No matter what the OP states, and regardless of whether the product they recommend fits the request, they always recommend the brand they own or would like to own. So dependable and funny.
“I’m a modern man, a man for the millennium. Digital and smoke free. A diversified multi-cultural, post-modern deconstruction that is anatomically and ecologically incorrect. I’ve been up linked and downloaded, I’ve been inputted and outsourced, I know the upside of downsizing, I know the downside of upgrading. I’m a high-tech low-life. A cutting edge, state-of-the-art bi-coastal multi-tasker and I can give you a gigabyte in a nanosecond! I’m new wave, but I’m old school and my inner child is outward bound. I’m a hot-wired, heat seeking, warm-hearted cool customer, voice activated and bio-degradable. I interface with my database, my database is in cyberspace, so I’m interactive, I’m hyperactive and from time to time I’m radioactive..."
Most people here give advise based on their experiences and some just like to chime in for the kicks :-)
Now if you live in the middle of nowhere, I suggest try to attend audio shows. One can learn a lot over the course of 2-3 days from these shows and you also meet great people.
I'm thankful for those on here that are able and willing to share and help. I continue to learn and always benefit from some of the advice.
I think some fail to carefully read the original post, (I've done it for sure) but their heart is in the right place.
The posts that miss the mark don't bother me much, but the bickering and nitpicking does. I even learn through others' arguing but the drama is somewhat distracting.
C'mon guys, the original poster is just messin' with you. You think he really has a problem with listening before deciding? If so there's a nice bridge you might be interested in buying.
I see this happening more, so maybe it's just a sign of the times that many don't take the time to read the entire post and only respond to the title.
On the other hand, I see more and more posters ask for gear recommendations, especially speakers, without ever stating what their associated gear is, music preferences, and size of room. Whether one lives near an audio shop or not, this is essential information that must be given to make the right choice.
Its almost as if some of these folks are more concerned about what's the most popular and not about sound quality. Or they would put a little more thought into their questions.
I don't believe bad advice is given on this board as much as poorly phrased questions getting the answers they deserve.
Yes, easier to provide solid response to a well defined question.That said, I believe it easier to respond to a poor question than to produce a well defined one. Must admit that I have on occasion overlooked something in an OP, leading to an unnecessary question rather than to poor advice.
Questions are sometimes vague because they don’t know what they want or don’t want, aren’t sure of what quality they’ve got, have no big picture, suffer under a lifetime of misinformation and assumptions, and place logic before experience. OK those were my personal hurdles. Who has been around the hobby for awhile and has never given bad advice? I look back 20 years and some of my posts are downright embarrassments. Everyone is offering help in their own way. Whether they are informed and experienced and to what degree is for the OP to sort out.
As a group the people who participate on this forum are most generous, well intentioned and highly knowledgeable. If a person presents a well thought out question or solicitation for information, they can get very useful responses. On the other hand, if someone asks "What's the best" or "is X an upgrade over Y", then all they will get back are opinions of varying quality. To get the best from this forum someone has to know enough to ask the "right" questions.
My pet peeves are OPs who omit vital information from their posts and OPs who never participate in their own threads. After you ask a question and get numerous responses it would be nice to find out what you did with the information.
Any opinion expressed here should be taken with a varying sized salt sample...including my own. ejr1953 has it right, and the depth of the opinion will vary with the level of esoteria involved. And as the esoteria level rises, the level of advocacy for the offered opinion also gets more intense...
Thread "Are audiophiles still out of their minds?" is Still roaring on. Like watching a slow motion cat fight at times. But some live for conflict apparently....
Another interesting though somewhat rhetorical question is why do people take bad advice? I'm pretty sure in most cases the givers think their advice is pretty good.
onhwy613,762 posts06-24-2016 8:21amAs a group the people who participate on this forum are most generous, well intentioned and highly knowledgeable. If a person presents a well thought out question or solicitation for information, they can get very useful responses.
Say what??? My limited experience with AG has been the recent thread "Are audiophiles still out of their minds?" Suffice it to say I am packing my bags to look for a better home. Life is too short for that kind of nonsense.
And the "Are audiophiles still out of their minds" thread really wasn't posted by its author asking for advice. It was asking for opinions. It really doesn't pertain to the discussion we are having now.
Wattsperchannel - I have been around here for a long time and you are not wrong. But I have also had many great experiences and advice and IMHO given some as well. We are on the worldwide webb and that is unpredictable.
If I am budgeting 10k it'd make sense to allocate 5 - 10% for travel/hotel or re-shipping costs. Anyway, I think 95% of forum advice is bs unless I'm careful to finely filter the real nuggets. Even then, I mostly miss the nuggets anyway since nugget mining is largely counter-intuitive going against commonly held audiophile beliefs.
mapman13,416 posts06-24-2016 9:35amAnother
interesting though somewhat rhetorical question is why do people take
bad advice? I'm pretty sure in most cases the givers think their advice
is pretty good.
Spaceman, An good or bad advice is in the eye of the beholder. Wow, 13,416 EXCELLENT posts!
The OP's sentiments are very familiar to me. I believe that a badly asked question deserves one of two responses: Ignore it completely, or seek to clarify and help. Most other responses are evidence of something else going on.
Hey, Watts! It's not all that bad all the time. *G* That particular forum had all the earmarks of becoming a 'black hole' around page 2. I'd return just to see if it had calmed down...see if anyone had mopped up yet...;)
Mapman, it just seems that it's become increasingly difficult to parse good from bad in the advice whirl'd. The item under discussion might work spectacularly for one user and absolutely suck for another. Likely due to the variations in what said item finds itself in, attached to a whole different set of parameters.... I have this suspicion that, given two identical computers, that even if one was to match keystroke to keystroke and maintaining absolute duplication, that the little buggers would still respond differently after awhile. Applying this to AI makes me slightly paranoid, but I pick and choose what I let into my life. Including advice.....;)
I look for advice from someone whose taste I share and then look for such a product at a good price. In this way I have been able to even order products from overseas which were not available here. Granted that I am vertran audiophile there is a market for any Good product and I have not bought any produce on personal audition in memory. The conditions are seldom good enough to get a good idea. I use to go to the Chicago CES and remember when one exhibiter took off the mattresses and put them on the walls to deaden the sound. On another I was sitting next to a mag writer who was listening to a speaker with a satisfied look on his face. I found it unlistenable.
For example some years ago there was a speaker I wanted to hear and I drove from Southern Indiana to Cincinnati and bought them ear unheard as they were in very good condition. They proved to be excellent but not my taste. I sold them to an audiophile in Lexington who ran a large store for the same price I paid. I have just orederd an amp from Califarnia at a good price. I have never heard one but I know the brand. Start cheap and learn your own taste. With audiogon and others you can experiment.
Audiophiles are unbelievably fickle and often sell excellent products for a large loss. Even when I was a dealer I bought most of my personal gear used because I could get better prices that way. I handled products like Krell, VPI, Quad, B&W etc. Sold out of my basement as I had modified the room to get a good sound. I remember selling a pair of 801s and the customer complained that they did not sound the same. He had one next to a full glass wall. Since the speakers can easily be moved I switched them and the sound switched channels. It was the reflection that made them sound different. A radio station engineer was there once and said he had never heard anything like it. Am I a genus? Hardly but I make an effort. Read one of the room set up books before spending a lot of money.
I greatly enjoy this forum. I has allowed me to share my interest in this hobby and have learned a great deal from the interaction. To do so is simple: Select OPs that interest; follow those that maintain same; participate when induced to do so; ignore those that are not of interest, or intrude on ones' sensitivities; always take the high road.
Hey... Neat question. It could seem on it's surface just a rant but I think there are some real underlying issues/answers to this.
Issues with being self-centered: I am a career I.T. person who is also into audio. I realize I'm very self centered and really really like being "right". I have a certain set of skills and experience to work with and if I'm not careful try to make the problem fit my skills and abilities. I see it all the time where an argument starts in an audio or technical forum and gets ugly really fast when offense it taken and/or someone just has GOT to be right. ....or even "I'm wrong, but I'm more right than you!!!" LOL
Let's face it, it takes a lot of knowledge, experience and insight into another persons preferences to even attempt to answer some of the generic buying questions posed. Most of my friends don't give a rats arse about my "soundstage" or my "CPU utilization". What I'm trying to say is what seems just fine to one of us may be intolerable to another. Subjective.
The reality is I'm really not an authority on a lot of things. I have a small amount of experience in a few things. Mostly I just take it all in and try to better my own understanding. I think a lot of misunderstandings could be avoided by starting out with "This is what I did and here is why...."
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